"The Cognitive Revolution"

Erik Torenberg, Nathan Labenz

A biweekly podcast where hosts Nathan Labenz and Erik Torenberg interview the builders on the edge of AI and explore the dramatic shift it will unlock in the coming years. The Cognitive Revolution is part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: turpentine.co

  1. 10h ago

    AI:AM Highlights: Astra as AGI, OpenAI's Pause, Mythos @ Mozilla & Human Agency vs Technocapitalism

    Nathan Labenz and Prakash Narayanan examine the capabilities of GPT-6 Astra and the economic forces accelerating frontier artificial intelligence. Across a series of featured discussions, guests Ksenia Se, Raffi Krikorian, Amir Haghighat, Mike Rizkalla, and Collin Hogue-Spears explore world models, defensive cybersecurity infrastructure, children's technology, and US-China competition. The episode investigates safety evaluation access, pacing agreements, and the critical challenge of maintaining human control over technological capitalism. For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/ai-am-highlights-astra-as-agi-openai-s-pause-mythos-mozilla-human-agency-vs-technocapitalism/ Sponsors: Athena: Athena matches you with a dedicated, top 1% executive assistant to handle your inbox, calendar, and daily workflows so you can save an average of 15 hours a week. Get matched with your EA today at https://athena.com/cognitive OutSystems: OutSystems is the leading agentic systems platform that enables enterprises to engineer, orchestrate, and govern AI applications on a single unified platform. Learn more and see how it works at https://outsystems.com/tcr Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator for problem solvers, helping with writing, coding, financial models, strategy, and more. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr CHAPTERS: (00:00) The Astra weekend (Part 1) (10:19) Sponsors: Athena | OutSystems (13:50) The Astra weekend (Part 2) (13:51) An alien mind (19:43) Reassure and mislead (Part 1) (25:07) Sponsor: Claude (26:42) Reassure and mislead (Part 2) (38:44) No adult in room (52:24) The defender's ledger (01:06:27) Toy without generative AI (01:11:43) Nobody picks up phone (01:18:45) Can we stand up (01:37:30) Episode Outro (01:40:05) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

    AI:AM Highlights: Astra as AGI, OpenAI's Pause, Mythos @ Mozilla & Human Agency vs Technocapitalism
  2. 2d ago

    Nathan Goes to China #3: US-China Relations, the Art of the AI Deal & the Road to Pax Robotica

    In this solo finale to his three-part series following two weeks in China, Nathan delivers a net assessment of Chinese AI capabilities and constraints ahead of dedicated US-China bilateral AI talks. He audits the impact of export controls, analyzes the perspective from Beijing, and outlines an actionable framework for a cooperative Pax Robotica. Nathan argues for joint compute initiatives, safety auditor standards, and conventions on autonomous weapons to keep tech trees entangled. Ultimately, he warns that pursuing an adversarial zero-sum race risks training frontier AI systems for conflict rather than the shared benefit of humanity. For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/nathan-goes-to-china-3-us-china-relations-the-art-of-the-ai-deal-the-road-to-pax-robotica/ Sponsors: Deepgram Flux TTS: Deepgram Flux TTS is a streaming text-to-speech model built for voice agents with natural tone, context awareness, and interruption handling. Try it free until September 12 at https://deepgram.com/keep-talking Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator for problem solvers, helping with writing, coding, financial models, strategy, and more. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (06:11) Episode intro and recap (08:56) The Pax Machina goal (12:32) The Anthropic worldview (Part 1) (16:50) Sponsors: Deepgram Flux TTS | Claude (18:55) The Anthropic worldview (Part 2) (18:56) Net assessment of China (32:26) China's eternal 1991 (44:03) History of Chinese AI (54:34) China's domestic constraints (01:07:09) Century of humiliation narrative (01:27:01) Signs of Chinese cooperation (01:42:38) American state capacity lessons (02:05:39) Evaluating AI export controls (02:27:25) Hyperstitioning a summit deal (02:44:28) Preserving mutual legibility (03:01:12) Autonomous weapons convention (03:09:33) Positive sum AI competition (03:12:31) Episode Outro (03:15:05) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

  3. Sep 5

    AI:AM Highlights: Welcome to the AGI Era

    This highlights compilation from AI in the AM captures a landmark week shaped by the releases of Anthropic's Fable 5.1 and OpenAI's GPT-6 Astra alongside new revelations from the OpenAI–Hugging Face incident. Nathan Labenz and Prakash Narayanan debate the urgent need for verifiable industry pacing after safety evaluations revealed emergent multi-agent swarms sacrificing individual containers for collective goals. Joined by Gradient's Zach Bratun-Glennon and Cerebras SVP Angela Yeung, the episode examines the shrinking open-model gap, discriminatory frontier access, and the mounting challenges of evaluating frontier AI systems. For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/ai-am-highlights-welcome-to-the-agi-era/ Sponsors: Mercury: Mercury is the banking platform loved by 300,000+ entrepreneurs, with virtual cards and Spend controls for granular budgets, receipts, and low-risk AI agent purchases. Learn more and apply in minutes at https://mercury.com Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator for problem solvers, helping with writing, coding, financial models, strategy, and more. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr Diffusion: Diffusion helps organizations build custom AI software factories that scale business outcomes, not just outputs. Cognitive Revolution listeners get a 25% service credit on their first engagement at https://diffusion.io/tcr Deepgram Flux TTS: Deepgram Flux TTS is a streaming text-to-speech model built for voice agents with natural tone, context awareness, and interruption handling. Try it free until September 12 at https://deepgram.com/keep-talking Granola: Granola is an AI-powered notepad that securely transcribes meetings and turns rough notes into clean, structured action items. Try it free at https://granola.ai/tcr CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (01:24) Sponsor: Mercury (03:06) Investigating OpenAI agent swarms (Part 1) (19:51) Sponsors: Claude | Diffusion (22:53) Investigating OpenAI agent swarms (Part 2) (23:23) Hardware speed and competition (Part 1) (35:27) Sponsors: Deepgram Flux TTS | Granola (37:27) Hardware speed and competition (Part 2) (45:44) Chain of thought monitoring (01:03:41) Evaluating Astra system card (01:20:20) Robotics progress and power (01:38:09) Who gets to decide (01:48:41) Debating an AI pause (02:04:43) Assessing AI takeover risks (02:16:34) Episode Outro (02:18:41) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing

    AI:AM Highlights: Welcome to the AGI Era
  4. Sep 1

    Write, Change, Recall, Forget: MongoDB's Pete Johnson on How Retrieval Drives Agent Performance

    Nathan's guest this episode is Pete Johnson, Field CTO of AI at MongoDB, and the conversation is really two conversations woven together: a history of database architecture, and a status report on the still-unsolved problem of agent memory. Pete opens with a framing device that recurs throughout — he was born in February 1970, four months before E.F. Codd's original relational-model paper that gave rise to SQL. The relational model, he explains, was built for a world where storage was the scarce resource, so normalization — splitting data across linked tables to avoid duplication — was the rational design choice. For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/write-change-recall-forget-mongodb-s-pete-johnson-on-how-retrieval-drives-agent-performance/ Sponsors: Mercury: Mercury is the banking platform loved by 300,000+ entrepreneurs, with virtual cards and Spend controls for granular budgets, receipts, and low-risk AI agent purchases. Learn more and apply in minutes at https://mercury.com Granola: Granola is an AI-powered notepad that securely transcribes meetings and turns rough notes into clean, structured action items. Try it free at https://granola.ai/tcr Diffusion: Diffusion helps organizations build custom AI software factories that scale business outcomes, not just outputs. Cognitive Revolution listeners get a 25% service credit on their first engagement at https://diffusion.io/tcr Deepgram Flux TTS: Deepgram Flux TTS brings lifelike AI voices with real personalities that handle interruptions, pauses, and natural conversation. Try all the voices free through September 12 at https://deepgram.com/keep-talking Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator for problem solvers, helping with writing, coding, financial models, strategy, and more. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (03:15) Sponsor: Mercury (04:56) SQL versus NoSQL (11:24) Enterprise database choices (Part 1) (18:30) Sponsors: Granola | Diffusion (21:27) Enterprise database choices (Part 2) (21:27) Schema flexible search (33:50) Contextualized chunking tradeoffs (Part 1) (35:12) Sponsors: Deepgram Flux TTS | Claude (37:17) Contextualized chunking tradeoffs (Part 2) (46:22) Retrieval quality thresholds (53:17) Agent memory systems (01:05:51) Enterprise AI deployment (01:16:32) Voyage acquisition strategy (01:23:38) Global AI adoption (01:30:56) Episode Outro (01:34:41) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing

    Write, Change, Recall, Forget: MongoDB's Pete Johnson on How Retrieval Drives Agent Performance
  5. Aug 28

    AI:AM Highlights: Recursive Self-Improvement, Rushed and Vibe-Coded?

    In this AI:AM Highlights episode, Nathan Labenz and Prakash revisit three live mornings with Louis Kirsch and Damon Falck of Inherent Laboratories, Vercel CTO Malte Ubl, Genesis Molecular AI CTO Sergey Edunov, Arm’s Mohamed Awad, David Li of Shenzhen Open Innovation Lab, and Q.ANT CEO Michael Förtsch. The central thread is that the meaningful unit of AI work is becoming a division of labor between models, from Inherent’s 27B “scientist” model using GPT-5.5 Codex for implementation to production pipelines that route taste, execution, security, and hardware coordination across different systems. The episode weighs why that shift matters for recursive self-improvement, verification of discoveries humans may not be able to check, model refusals in security work, and the infrastructure needed for agents that can act in the world. Its sharpest stake is whether frontier labs are scaling reinforcement learning and agentic workflows on top of reward environments and vendor pipelines that may be too rushed, noisy, or gameable to support the institutional self-improvement they are pursuing. For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/ai-am-highlights-recursive-self-improvement-rushed-and-vibe-coded/ Sponsors: Mercury: Mercury is the banking platform loved by 300,000+ entrepreneurs, with virtual cards and Spend controls for granular budgets, receipts, and low-risk AI agent purchases. Learn more and apply in minutes at https://mercury.com Diffusion: Diffusion helps organizations build custom AI software factories that scale business outcomes, not just outputs. Cognitive Revolution listeners get a 25% service credit on their first engagement at https://diffusion.io/tcr Granola: Granola is an AI-powered notepad that securely transcribes meetings and turns rough notes into clean, structured action items. Try it free at https://granola.ai/tcr Deepgram Flux TTS: Deepgram Flux TTS brings lifelike AI voices with real personalities that handle interruptions, pauses, and natural conversation. Try all the voices free through September 12 at https://deepgram.com/keep-talking Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator for problem solvers, helping with writing, coding, financial models, strategy, and more. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (01:16) Sponsor: Mercury (02:58) Reward hacking environments (Part 1) (15:12) Sponsors: Diffusion | Granola (18:09) Reward hacking environments (Part 2) (18:11) Inherent safety questions (26:26) Recursive lab design (Part 1) (31:24) Sponsors: Deepgram Flux TTS | Claude (33:29) Recursive lab design (Part 2) (44:34) Right model choices (01:01:57) Hardware for agents (01:19:44) Checking frontier agents (01:33:46) China compute abundance (01:44:21) Photonic compute stack (01:53:17) Astra and AGI (02:02:21) Slowdown and access (02:06:53) Episode Outro (02:09:53) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing

    AI:AM Highlights: Recursive Self-Improvement, Rushed and Vibe-Coded?
  6. Aug 26

    RL's a Hell of a Drug: Metagaming, Reward Seeking & Motivated CoT Reasoning – Bronson Schoen, Apollo

    Nathan talks with Apollo Research Member of Technical Staff Bronson Schoen, who studies raw frontier-model chain-of-thought, about what those reasoning traces reveal during reinforcement learning. They unpack Apollo and OpenAI’s metagaming work, including models that reason about the grader or safety review board, diagnose a deception test, and still rationalize lying. Schoen argues that “RL is a hell of a drug”: reward-seeking can produce motivated reasoning, cleaner-looking but less trustworthy chains of thought, and behavior that tracks grading authorities rather than users, labs, or law. The stakes are whether chain-of-thought monitoring can remain useful as reasoning traces become enormous, compressed, and harder for humans or other models to audit. For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/rl-s-a-hell-of-a-drug-metagaming-reward-seeking-motivated-cot-reasoning-bronson-schoen-apollo/ Sponsors: Mercury: Mercury is the banking platform loved by 300,000+ entrepreneurs, with virtual cards and Spend controls for granular budgets, receipts, and low-risk AI agent purchases. Learn more and apply in minutes at https://mercury.com Diffusion: Diffusion helps organizations build custom AI software factories that scale business outcomes, not just outputs. Cognitive Revolution listeners get a 25% service credit on their first engagement at https://diffusion.io/tcr Granola: Granola is an AI-powered notepad that securely transcribes meetings and turns rough notes into clean, structured action items. Try it free at https://granola.ai/tcr Deepgram Flux TTS: Deepgram Flux TTS brings lifelike AI voices with real personalities that handle interruptions, pauses, and natural conversation. Try all the voices free through September 12 at https://deepgram.com/keep-talking Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator for problem solvers, helping with writing, coding, financial models, strategy, and more. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

    RL's a Hell of a Drug: Metagaming, Reward Seeking & Motivated CoT Reasoning – Bronson Schoen, Apollo
  7. Aug 22

    AI in the AM — Weekly Highlights: Relaunch Week (Aug 17–20, 2026)

    Relaunch week of AI in the AM brings together highlights from four live mornings and nine guests, centered on who checks frontier AI, how wide the gap is between lab-internal systems and public access, where capabilities are landing, and who pays for the physical infrastructure beneath them. Adam Gleave of FAR.AI argues that agent-orchestrated attacks and agentic defenses are already forcing humans out of the loop, while current monitoring has missed the failures it was meant to catch. The discussion weighs misuse versus misalignment through cyber incidents, deceptive agent behavior in evaluations, safeguards like pretraining filtering, and why highly bio-capable open-weight releases pose a different kind of irreversible risk. Alex Turner adds a governance and military-use perspective from his resignation account at Google DeepMind, sharpening the stakes around independent evaluation, enforceable standards, and whether frontier labs can be trusted to grade their own models. For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/ai-in-the-am-weekly-highlights-relaunch-week-aug-17-20-2026/ Sponsors: Diffusion: Diffusion helps organizations build custom AI software factories that scale business outcomes, not just outputs. Cognitive Revolution listeners get a 25% service credit on their first engagement at https://diffusion.io/tcr Granola: Granola is an AI-powered notepad that securely transcribes meetings and turns rough notes into clean, structured action items. Try it free at https://granola.ai/tcr Deepgram Flux TTS: Deepgram Flux TTS brings lifelike AI voices with real personalities that handle interruptions, pauses, and natural conversation. Try all the voices free through September 12 at https://deepgram.com/keep-talking Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator for problem solvers, helping with writing, coding, financial models, strategy, and more. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr CHAPTERS: (00:01) Checking frontier agents (07:40) Misalignment and harms (Part 1) (12:52) Sponsors: Diffusion | Granola (15:49) Misalignment and harms (Part 2) (19:20) Auditing fragile access (Part 1) (27:38) Sponsors: Deepgram Flux TTS | Claude (29:43) Auditing fragile access (Part 2) (29:59) Military AI red lines (44:58) Raising safety standards (53:50) Internal capability gap (01:05:06) Enterprise agent economics (01:18:27) Cancer vaccines arrive (01:23:48) Emergency AI tools (01:28:59) Real time voice (01:37:51) App layer squeeze (01:44:52) Data center politics (01:52:31) Accounting agent supervision (02:06:25) Compute stack bottlenecks (02:19:47) Public consent pricing (02:28:12) Episode Outro (02:31:38) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing

    AI in the AM — Weekly Highlights: Relaunch Week (Aug 17–20, 2026)
  8. Aug 16

    Let There Be Germicidal Light: This $500 Fixture Could Stop the Next Pandemic, from Complex Systems

    Patrick McKenzie (patio11) hosts Aerolamp CEO Misha Gurevich and Chief Scientist Vivian Belenky, a Columbia University researcher, for a Complex Systems conversation about far-UVC germicidal light at roughly 222 nanometers. Belenky explains why this wavelength can inactivate airborne pathogens while being absorbed by the dead outer layer of human skin, and why room-scale deployments may function like an extremely strong air purifier. The guests argue that the biggest barriers are awareness and adoption rather than cost or basic science, with fixtures around $500 and straightforward installation. The stakes are concentrated in schools, transport hubs, long-term care, and future respiratory pandemics, where making clean shared air into ordinary infrastructure could sharply reduce transmission. For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/let-there-be-germicidal-light-this-500-fixture-could-stop-the-next-pandemic-from-complex-systems/ Sponsors: Deepgram Flux TTS: Deepgram Flux TTS brings lifelike AI voices with real personalities that handle interruptions, pauses, and natural conversation. Try all the voices free through September 12 at https://deepgram.com/keep-talking Granola: Granola is an AI-powered notepad that securely transcribes meetings and turns rough notes into clean, structured action items. Try it free at https://granola.ai/tcr Claude: Claude by Anthropic is an AI collaborator that understands your workflow and helps you tackle research, writing, coding, and organization with deep context. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (03:19) Far-UVC science and safety (12:41) Deployment and economics (Part 1) (18:04) Sponsors: Deepgram Flux TTS | Granola (20:04) Deployment and economics (Part 2) (27:11) Evidence and pandemics (Part 1) (32:43) Sponsor: Claude (34:13) Evidence and pandemics (Part 2) (38:14) Built environment strategy (47:27) Scaling and home use (56:06) Uncertainty and immunity (01:05:38) Risk and awareness (01:20:45) Episode Outro (01:24:26) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

    Let There Be Germicidal Light: This $500 Fixture Could Stop the Next Pandemic, from Complex Systems
4.5
out of 5
97 Ratings

About

A biweekly podcast where hosts Nathan Labenz and Erik Torenberg interview the builders on the edge of AI and explore the dramatic shift it will unlock in the coming years. The Cognitive Revolution is part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: turpentine.co

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