The Other 22 Hours

Michaela Anne, Aaron Shafer-Haiss
  • 4.9 (70)
  • Music Interviews
  • Updated Weekly

An exploration of the creative life, lived in the in-between. A sanctuary for the creative spirit in a results-obsessed world. Moving beyond the highlight reel, hosts and working musicians Aaron Shafer-Haiss and Michaela Anne facilitate intimate, artist-to-artist conversations with renowned musicians, authors, visual artists and actors about the grit required to sustain a life in the arts. From navigating doubt to finding stillness, this is the reality of the work. Unfiltered.

  1. 5d ago

    Rodney Crowell on letting go of recognition, 40-year songs, and talking to trees.

    With two Grammy Awards, 15 number-one singles, and a songwriting catalog recorded by legends like Emmylou Harris, Bob Seger, and Waylon Jennings, Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame member Rodney Crowell stands as one of Americana's most enduring icons. Yet, after 50 years in Nashville, Rodney’s relationship to his craft is grounded not in recognition, but in the quiet, daily act of showing up. In this conversation from 2023, Rodney reflects on the early years of roaming Nashville alongside Guy Clark and Townes Van Zandt to evolving past the need for applause, the spiritual discipline of 7-day vision quests, and why a song can take 40 years to finally tell you what it wants to be. In This Episode: Rodney CrowellJedd HughesMarty StuartJD Miller's Recording StudioWilburn BrothersEmmylou HarrisGuy ClarkMickey NewburyBob Seger Go Deeper: Watch: View this entire conversation on YouTube.Explore: Find similar conversations in these themed playlists.Connect: Join the conversation on Instagram. The Hosts: The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach). More about Aaron’s work.More about Michaela Anne’s work. Credits:  Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network.

    Rodney Crowell on letting go of recognition, 40-year songs, and talking to trees.

  2. Aug 12

    Mary Gauthier on the business mindset of an artist, art as recovery, and owning a clam shack.

    GRAMMY-nominated songwriter and author Mary Gauthier, whose songs have been recorded by everyone from Tim McGraw and Blake Shelton to Boy George and Jimmy Buffett, joins us for a deeply resonant exploration of life, survival, and craft. Starting her songwriting journey at age 40 after a successful career as a chef and restaurant owner, Mary offers a deeply grounded perspective on what it means to build a long-haul artistic life. Originally aired in August 2023 as Episode 27, we are revisiting this favorite conversation from our archive to unpack her 33-year journey in recovery, the necessity of patience in art and persistence in business, and how songwriting serves as a container for processing trauma and bridging human divides. In This Episode: Mary GauthierSongwriting With Soldiers 'Saved by a Song: The Art and Healing Power of Songwriting'Ep 152 - Matraca BergEp 43 - Gretchen PetersBeth Nielsen ChapmanLiz RosePatty GriffinNeko Case Go Deeper: Watch: View this entire conversation on YouTube.Explore: Find similar conversations in these themed playlists.Connect: Join the conversation on Instagram.The Hosts: The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach). More about Aaron’s work.More about Michaela Anne’s work.Credits:  Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network.

    Mary Gauthier on the business mindset of an artist, art as recovery, and owning a clam shack.

  3. Aug 5

    Ruby Amanfu on guarding your creative energy force field, the illusion of major-label financials, and cooking dinner for Willie Nelson.

    This week, we dive into our archives for this special reissue of our conversation with GRAMMY-nominated singer-songwriter, producer, activist, and chef Ruby Amanfu. Known for her profound collaborations with H.E.R., Brandi Carlile, Alicia Keys, and Beyoncé, Ruby has navigated the highest peaks of the music industry while fiercely protecting her inner peace. In this episode, we explore the structural collisions that force us to speak our truth, the reality of reclaiming your identity outside of financial validation, and what happens when we finally release our death grip on how we thought our lives would look. In This Episode: Ruby AmanfuSam and RubyPorter’s CallAndy LittleMusiCaresLee Ann WomackWillie NelsonLove Rising Concert Go Deeper: Watch: View this entire conversation on YouTube.Explore: Find similar conversations in these themed playlists.Connect: Join the conversation on Instagram.The Hosts: The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach). More about Aaron’s work.More about Michaela Anne’s work.Credits:  Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network.

    Ruby Amanfu on guarding your creative energy force field, the illusion of major-label financials, and cooking dinner for Willie Nelson.

  4. Jul 29

    Yancey Strickler on artist power, interdependent networks, and a zip file worth thousands.

    What happens when creative people stop looking for a seat at the table and build a table of their own? For generations society has treated an artist's life as an economic sideline, a romanticized piecemeal struggle. Today, we are witnessing a structural revolution. With Colorado recently passing the nation's first Artist Corporation legislation (the Colorado Artist Company Act) in June 2026, we are reissuing our definitive conversation with the architect of that very movement, Yancey Strickler. As the co-founder of Kickstarter, Metalabel, and the Artist Corporations Foundation, Yancey has dedicated his life to equipping creators with the structural tools to act as real entrepreneurs. In this expansive conversation, we trace the line between blue-collar artistry and private equity, explore why the industry trades meaning for convenience, and look closely at how interdependent networks can finally break the cycle of artistic exploitation. In This Episode: Yancey StricklerA-CorpsColorado Legislation, June 2026MetaLabelThe Creative IndependentHipgnosisNirvanaThe Royal Alberta AdvantageEp 68 - Evan Honer“All The King’s Men”Virgil AblohBentoismCS Lewis - “The Inner Ring” Go Deeper: Watch: View this entire conversation on YouTube.Explore: Find similar conversations in these themed playlists.Connect: Join the conversation on Instagram.The Hosts: The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach). More about Aaron’s work.More about Michaela Anne’s work.Credits:  Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network.

    Yancey Strickler on artist power, interdependent networks, and a zip file worth thousands.

  5. Jul 22

    Hrishikesh Hirway on creative wholeness, strategic dilettantism, and surrendering to sandpaper.

    We often treat our creative identities like lanes, fearing that branching out looks like simple dilettantism. This week, we explore the delicate balance of identity and creative output with singer-songwriter Hrishikesh Hirway, the brilliant mind behind hit podcasts The West Wing Weekly and Home Cooking, as well as the globally-acclaimed Netflix series and podcast 'Song Exploder,' which features the likes of Paul McCartney, Billie Eilish, REM, and Lin-Manuel Miranda. Despite a decade of monumental success in the podcast and broadcast worlds, Hrishikesh found himself battling a quiet, profound depression born from leaving his primary identity as a singer-songwriter behind. He recently returned to music with his first album in 15 years and joins us for a beautifully tender conversation on breaking through a 10-year writer's block, navigating the vulnerability of cold-calling collaborators, and learning to sit comfortably within a "queer divine dissatisfaction." In This Episode: Hrishikesh HirwaySong Exploder (Podcast / Netflix Series) Alison Russell Linda Ronstadt Talking Heads The Band The Grateful Dead Bob Dylan Phil Weinrobe Ep 117 - Maia FriedmanJeff Tweedy - How to Write One Song (Book) Carl Jung / Depth Psychology The West Wing Weekly (Podcast) Home Cooking (Podcast) Samin Nosrat Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat (Book) Josh Malina Allison Janney Jenny Owen Youngs Yep Roc Records John Mark Nelson Matt Ross Spang (Memphis TED Talk) Agnes de Mille Martha Graham Go Deeper: Watch: View this entire conversation on YouTube.Explore: Find similar conversations in these themed playlists.Connect: Join the conversation on Instagram. The Hosts: The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach). More about Aaron’s work.More about Michaela Anne’s work. Credits:  Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network.

    Hrishikesh Hirway on creative wholeness, strategic dilettantism, and surrendering to sandpaper.

  6. Jul 15

    Amy Grant on unexpected healing, the invitation of aging, and craftopia.

    What does it mean to inhabit a creative life when that container itself changes? We sit down with GRAMMY-nominated, multi-platinum crossover superstar Amy Grant. Having shaped the landscape of pop and contemporary Christian music for over four decades, Grant found herself navigating an unexpected wilderness following a series of medical setbacks – including a traumatic bike accident – and a rewritten relationship with her own processing speed. In this soulful, luminous conversation, she explores the deliberate art of slowing down, the creative sanctuary of "Craftopia," and why she now views aging not as a loss of identity, but as a continual invitation to let go. In This Episode: Amy GrantVince GillEaglesMac McAnallyJimmy BuffettCoral Reefer BandBarefoot RepublicNPR’s Wildcard podcastRay CharlesCicely TysonRoots (miniseries)Franklin GrahamViktor FranklMan's Search for MeaningGene MillerDr. Jim NettervilleSuleika Jaouad Go Deeper: Watch: View this entire conversation on YouTube.Explore: Find similar conversations in these themed playlists.Connect: Join the conversation on Instagram. The Hosts: The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach). More about Aaron’s work.More about Michaela Anne’s work. Credits:  Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network.

    Amy Grant on unexpected healing, the invitation of aging, and craftopia.

  7. Jul 8

    James Gardin on deconstructing the sync world, overcoming over-analysis, and the male affordable Lizzo.

    How do you build a sustainable life around your art when the traditional definitions of success feel increasingly narrow? In this conversation, we sit down with musician, songwriter, and educator James Gardin. While his joyous, infectious music has found a global audience through major sync campaigns for brands like Apple, Tommy Hilfiger, and Saks Fifth Avenue, James’s core creative philosophy is anchored in something much more grounded: community, education, and the refusal to second-guess the spark. Together, we explore the nuts-and-bolts realities of the licensing world, the absolute humility required to teach songwriting to eight year olds, and how letting go of the industry's arbitrary rules allows us to finally blaze our own paths. In This Episode: James Gardin Lizzo Marshmello J Dilla Proof Elzhi Slum Village Liza Garza Def Poetry Jam SZA Chance the Rapper Marmoset Musicbed iSpot.tv TuneFind Western States Center Eric Ward All of the Above Hip Hop Academy Trails End Camp Brooklyn Philharmonic Sinners Ryan Coogler Go Deeper: Watch: View this entire conversation on YouTube.Explore: Find similar conversations in these themed playlists.Connect: Join the conversation on Instagram. The Hosts: The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach). More about Aaron’s work.More about Michaela Anne’s work. Credits:  Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network.

    James Gardin on deconstructing the sync world, overcoming over-analysis, and the male affordable Lizzo.

  8. Jul 1

    Lukas Nelson on shedding expectations, the antidote to egos, and training like an Olympian.

    It is easy to look at a lifetime spent traveling on a tour bus in a famous family and assume the creative path was completely clear. We sit down with GRAMMY-winning singer-songwriter and guitar player Lukas Nelson ('A Star Is Born,' Promise of the Real, Neil Young) for an incredibly honest conversation about moving past the shadow of his father Willie Nelson's towering legacy, and detangling his identity from the cliched drug-induced creative culture. We explore the distinct clarity that arrives with sobriety, the physiological realities of keeping your body moving on the road, and how treating musical discipline like Olympic training allowed him to fully claim his own voice. It’s a masterclass in boundary setting, honoring the natural muse, and discovering that a long-term commitment to your health and your relationships is the ultimate engine for creative longevity. In This Episode: Lukas NelsonPromise of the Real Willie Nelson Merle Haggard Lady Gaga Promise of the Real Neil Young Paramount Theater Red Clay Strays Outlive by Dr. Peter Attia Willie's Remedy All Things Must Pass Go Deeper: Watch: View this entire conversation on YouTube.Explore: Find similar conversations in these themed playlists.Connect: Join the conversation on Instagram.The Hosts: The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach). More about Aaron’s work.More about Michaela Anne’s work.Credits:  Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network.

    Lukas Nelson on shedding expectations, the antidote to egos, and training like an Olympian.
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4.9
out of 5
70 Ratings

About

An exploration of the creative life, lived in the in-between. A sanctuary for the creative spirit in a results-obsessed world. Moving beyond the highlight reel, hosts and working musicians Aaron Shafer-Haiss and Michaela Anne facilitate intimate, artist-to-artist conversations with renowned musicians, authors, visual artists and actors about the grit required to sustain a life in the arts. From navigating doubt to finding stillness, this is the reality of the work. Unfiltered.

Information

  • Creator
    Michaela Anne, Aaron Shafer-Haiss
  • Years Active
    2023 - 2026
  • Episodes
    164
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 2023-26 The 0ther 22 Hours Podcast
  • Show Website
    The Other 22 Hours

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