The Business of Tech

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The Business of Tech, hosted by leading tech journalist Peter Griffin. Every week they take a deep dive into emerging technology and news from the sector to help guide the important decisions all Business leaders make. Issues such as cybersecurity, retaining trust after a cyberattack, business IT needs, purchasing SaaS tools and more. New Episodes out every Thursday. Follow or subscribe to get it delivered straight to your favourite podcatcher. @petergnz @businessdesk_nz Proudly sponsored by 2degrees Business!  

  1. 3d ago

    AI’s next test: turning pilots into productivity

    Salesforce New Zealand country manager Richard Phillimore-Smith says the next phase of artificial intelligence will hinge on whether organisations can put trusted data, established workflows and people together to solve real business problems. Speaking to The Business of Tech at Salesforce’s Dreamforce conference in San Francisco, Phillimore-Smith said the event reflected an industry at a turning point. The gathering brought together some of AI’s most influential figures, including Nvidia’s Jensen Huang, OpenAI’s Sam Altman, Anthropic’s Dario Amodei and Salesforce chief executive Marc Benioff. The mood, as is always the case at Dreamforce, a mecca for marketing and sales tech folk, was upbeat. But the keynotes reflected the broader unease about the pace of AI development and the potential for AI to go rogue.  Amodei has urged greater coordination among AI companies on safety and oversight, a collaborative effort to slow down development as required, while pointing out that businesses are still using only 5 - 10% of the capabilities AI already delivers. An opportunity to lift productivity Phillimore-Smith said that the immediate opportunity, epitomised by the rise of AI agents and Agentforce, the Salesforce agentic platform, and Claudeforce, which debuted at Dreamforce, is far more practical and less scary. They are using AI agents to improve customer interactions, equip employees with better information and increase productivity. “We know that we have got an opportunity to lift productivity. We know we’ve got an opportunity to lift customer experience. We know we’ve got an opportunity to lift employee experience,” he said. “It has to start with data. Businesses organise to get the data right. AI as a tool can then surface that in the way that customers need it to be.” Phillimore-Smith pointed to Salesforce customer Fisher & Paykel Appliances, where an AI-enabled service experience is built on thousands of existing product and support articles.  On the conference floor at Dreamforce, I caught up with Rudi Khoury, chief digital officer at Fisher & Paykel Appliances, who told me that the whiteware maker has seen nearly 45% of service bookings completed online and a 50% reduction in call-handling times since installing an AI agent to handle customer queries. “It's like having more people, but this one can scale more,” he said.  “One agent can do a different scale to one person, but they still require management and leadership like a person does, and I think that's often forgotten about in the business context.” Don't forget the dishwasher knob! Agents are now also powering the apps Fisher & Paykel field service technicians use to prepare for in-home visits, with the app serving up detailed information about the customer and suggesting which spare parts to bring on the job. Khoury said running AI agents involved treating them like digital employees, monitoring their performance and output to improve how they operated. “When we first put Agentforce in, the feedback to [Salesforce] was, I need more observability. I need to know how it's going. And over the course of time, they provided those tools- really, really cool testing tools. So actually, we're able to simulate how the agent will perform before we deploy it. That's really great." Xero, another key New Zealand Salesforce customer, deployed an AI customer service agent on its website in April, which is accessible to around five million Xero accounting software users worldwide. “It creates capacity for our people, our specialists, the deep, deep knowledge people, to still be involved, to still be part of it," says Nigel Piper, executive general manager, customer at Xero, which separately has created Just Ask Xero (JAX), an AI agent for use within the Xero interface that accesses a customer's financial data to serve up information quickly. Agritech company Halter, which has seen its Salesforce grow to 300 people internationally as it scales up its smart cow collar business in the US, Europe, and South America, uses AI agents to deliver company data stored in Salesforce to the Halter app. Agents on the ranch A demo at Dreamforce showed how salespeople driving between farms in their company utes can interact with Halter’s voice agent via the app to set up meetings, adjust contracts and get an update on their sales targets. Dreamforce’s major Salesforce announcement was “AI Force”, an approach designed to let organisations access Salesforce data and workflows through the interface that best suits them – whether that is Salesforce’s own software, Slack, Anthropic’s Claude or another AI front end. Phillimore-Smith described it as a move towards greater customer choice, while retaining the security, governance and workflow controls that sit beneath the interface. “Salesforce is saying that our platforms continue to provide everything they have done for 25 years around the trust, the security, the governance, the semantics and all those workflows that your business runs on are still there,” he said. AI at a tipping point But AI Force is also an acknowledgement that the future of software companies is not owning the interface, instead focusing on maintaining and organising high-quality business data so it can be accessed by your AI agents of choice. But the harder task for the majority of Kiwi businesses remains scaling pilots into business-as-usual deployments and building workforce capability.  “We’re at that kind of tipping point now,” Phillimore-Smith told me.  “Businesses, organisations can see that the technology does work, it’s trusted, and I think we’re now seeing an up-skilling coming off the back of that.” Listen to the entire conversation with Richard Phillimore-Smith on The Business of Tech, streaming on iHeartRadio, Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.  Peter Griffin attended Dreamforce as a guest of Salesforce. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

  2. Sep 16

    Big Tech’s power problem is bigger than antitrust

    The tech giants have become the infrastructure of modern life. They mediate how we shop, communicate, advertise, store data and increasingly use artificial intelligence.  Yet the tools governments use to contain their power were designed for an earlier economic age. Professor Susan Watson believes we may be looking for solutions in the wrong place. An internationally respected corporate law and governance scholar, Watson is Dean of the University of Auckland Business School and Acting Dean of its Faculty of Law. Her new research asks whether the legal structure of the modern corporation itself has helped Big Tech become so dominant. Her starting point is the English East India Company, which was founded around 1600 and acquired permanent capital in 1657, growing from a trading venture into a private corporation powerful enough to rule territory and collect taxes. Watson sees an important parallel with today’s platform companies. Both created and controlled new forms of infrastructure while operating with privileges supplied by the state. A new form of capital Conventional competition law is largely concerned with markets, prices and consumer welfare. But many Big Tech services are free at the point of use. The real transaction involves data, which platforms can turn into a productive asset, using our behaviour to generate predictions, advertising revenue and further market power. Watson argues that data is not simply “the new oil”; it is a new form of capital. She introduces two useful concepts. “Recursive capital” describes corporations’ ability to own other corporations through potentially endless chains of subsidiaries. “Capital-constituting corporations” can identify something previously outside the market – behavioural data or even low Earth orbit – turn it into capital and lay claim to its future value. Reinventing how companies operate Her proposed response is more scalpel than sledgehammer. Platform owners could be prevented from competing against businesses that depend on their marketplaces. Governments could also reconsider when large corporate groups should be allowed to own subsidiaries operating within those markets. Users might even gain representation in platform governance, reflecting their status as something closer to digital citizens than conventional customers. The question becomes more urgent in the AI era. The companies developing frontier models also control much of the cloud infrastructure, computing capacity, data and distribution needed to bring them to market. With every incentive pushing them to move faster, Watson says the central concern is not AI itself, but who owns and controls it. In this episode of The Business of Tech, we explore how these extraordinarily powerful corporate machines were created – and why, having made them, we still have the power to remake them. Streaming on iHeartRadio, Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

  3. Sep 9

    The drone builder making waves in defence tech

    New Zealand-founded robotics company Syos Aerospace is building autonomous aircraft, drone boats, ground vehicles and underwater robots from its Mt. Maunganui base  In the latest episode of The Business of Tech, Syos founder Sam Vye tells me how a conservation-drone project in the Galápagos helped inspire the creation of Syos, now one of the country’s most ambitious dual-use tech companies. Vye arrived in New Zealand in 2018 and worked in Yamaha’s unmanned-helicopter division before seeing an opportunity to apply drones to rural, agricultural and conservation work. His early venture, Envico Technologies, started with Cameron Baker, took on a project using drones to distribute pest bait in the Galápagos Islands. We need a bigger drone The pair realised that small electric drones could carry modest loads, while conventional helicopters remained expensive, complex and risky to operate. Their answer was to develop large uncrewed helicopters that could take pilots out of hazardous or costly missions. Syos was founded in 2021 and initially targeted civilian uses including agricultural operations, cargo and surveying. Its founding principle, Vye says, is “minimum viable capability” – build systems that solve real-world problems quickly and at the lowest possible cost, rather than loading them with unnecessary features. Going underwater The company’s trajectory changed sharply as the global market for uncrewed systems accelerated, particularly after Russia invaded Ukraine. Syos expanded from aircraft into multi-domain autonomy, developing vehicles across air, land and sea, backed by a common command-and-control approach. It later acquired Tauranga underwater-robotics company Bay Dynamics, adding subsea capabilities for applications ranging from infrastructure inspection to surveillance and offshore operations. Syos now has a substantial defence business. In February, the New Zealand Defence Force announced it would trial SYOS uncrewed systems across air, land and sea as part of a programme to develop its autonomous-vehicle capability. The platforms include uncrewed surface vessels, aircraft systems and a ground vehicle, along with training and technical support. In the UK, Syos has also advanced in Project NYX, a Ministry of Defence programme exploring drones that could fly alongside British Army Apache attack helicopters. The ethics of dual-use That military work raises important questions about the ethics of autonomous systems and the kind of defence exports New Zealand should support. Vye acknowledges that drones are “a scary thing” in a world of bad actors, but says the company works with allied customers and follows its own moral compass. We also explore whether New Zealand can build a credible defence-tech sector without compromising its values, and why drones, robotics and AI-enabled autonomy may become an increasingly important part of the country’s technology-export future. Plus, I recap the tech founders who won categories in the BusinessDesk CEO Index Awards, including supreme winner Sir Peter Beck, talking about the two most important roles a CEO has to play. Streaming on iHeartRadio, Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

  4. Sep 2

    Blackbird’s billion-dollar bet on founders

    Australasian venture-capital heavyweight Blackbird has closed a record $1.25 billion sixth fund – and its New Zealand general partner Phoebe Harrop Meadows says Kiwi companies are central to its investment strategy. The fund, described by Blackbird as the largest venture-capital raise in ANZ history, underscores the firm’s rise from a small Australian startup investor into one of the region’s most consequential backers of technology companies. Having backed the likes of Canva, Halter, Marloo, and Partly, Blackbird has structured the new fund into two roughly equal pools: about $600 million for investments from pre-seed to Series A, and a similar amount to support companies later in their growth.  That allows it to write the first cheque when a company is little more than a proposition, then retain firepower to keep investing as the business scales. The Goldilocks fund In the latest episode of The Business of Tech, Harrop Meadows explains why the unusually large fund is not simply a bigger pile of money chasing startups. “It’s a sort of Goldilocks size,” she says, large enough to invest across a company’s life, but still built around identifying exceptional founders at the very beginning. That is a marked contrast with the conventional division between early-stage venture funds and later-stage growth investors. The model is finding fertile ground in New Zealand. More than half of Blackbird’s new early-stage investments over the past year have been in Kiwi-founded companies, although Harrop Meadows stresses that measure is by number of companies rather than dollars invested.  Harrop Meadows, who grew up in New Plymouth, studied law at the University of Otago, before heading to London to work at Bain & Company, then in growth-equity investing ahead of joining Blackbird in 2021, says New Zealand is like a “Galápagos island of ideas”, where founders often start companies not because startup status is fashionable, but because they have encountered a problem they feel compelled to solve.  Listen to the full conversation with Phoebe Harrop Meadows on The Business of Tech, available on iHeartRadio, Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

  5. Aug 26

    The anti-gravity business

    What if space was not simply a place to launch satellites – but a factory floor for making things that cannot be produced on Earth? That is the bet being made by Auckland startup Outlier Space, which has raised around US$7.35 million (NZ$12.3 million) in pre-seed funding to build reusable spacecraft that carry customer payloads into microgravity, operate them in orbit, then return them safely to Earth. Its first mission is booked for 2028. The premise is straightforward, if technically formidable. In orbit, a spacecraft is in continuous freefall, creating a microgravity environment in which the familiar force of gravity no longer dominates. Molecules, crystals, cells and materials can therefore behave in ways that are not possible in an Earth-bound laboratory. That holds incredible appeal to pharmaceutical companies, biotech firms and advanced-materials manufacturers. Microgravity can allow purer crystals to form, produce novel structures and open paths to materials and medicines that simply cannot be created – or cannot be created as effectively – on the ground. Bringing the results home In the latest episode of The Business of Tech, Outlier founder and chief executive Jamie France describes the company as an “anti-gravity chamber” for customers. They provide the proprietary manufacturing equipment and process. Outlier supplies the capsule-cum-satellite that allows access to the extraordinary environment of orbit, then brings the results home. The opportunity is becoming more urgent as the International Space Station – the world’s most important microgravity research laboratory – approaches retirement. Commercial replacements are on the way, but France believes there is a major role for autonomous, uncrewed spacecraft designed for manufacturing and research missions where astronauts are not required. France has the background to take on that challenge. He spent 15 years working with Emirates Team New Zealand, helped create Air New Zealand’s Skycouch, and spent almost a decade at Rocket Lab – from senior vehicle engineer on Electron to global director of the launch vehicle programme. Most recently, he sat on the board of FTN Motion, advising the founders as they scaled up production of their electric motorbikes (see episode 160 of The Business of Tech). France’s career has been defined by teams willing to tackle difficult problems from first principles. At Rocket Lab, he says, the high-stakes peak-performance mindset of an America’s Cup campaign was not an occasional event. It was simply “a Tuesday”. Outlier is now assembling its own team in Auckland, already numbering more than 20, to build a spacecraft capable not only of operating in orbit but also surviving re-entry and getting valuable payloads back into customers’ hands. In this episode, France explains why space manufacturing is really about gravity, how a new form of a cancer drug could change treatment delivery, and why New Zealand’s deep-tech future may depend as much on audacity as engineering skill. Listen to The Business of Tech for the full conversation with Jamie France, available wherever you get your podcasts. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

  6. Aug 19

    Wayne Brown’s tech plan: look to Asia and ditch the AI fluff

    Auckland Mayor Wayne Brown is about to turn 80 – and is still plainly more interested in the next deal, the next big export market and the next practical problem to fix than in winding down. In this week’s episode of The Business of Tech, Brown delivers a typically uncensored account of how he thinks Auckland should use technology to drive economic growth. He has little patience for glossy AI rhetoric, power-hungry data centres, or Wellington bureaucrats telling him what to do.  “The government doesn’t know how to grow the economy, so I might as well do it,” Brown told me fresh from a morning visiting startups as part of the Council’s 100 Days of Startups programme, which sees him shine a light on one of the city’s startups each day in the run-up to Startup Week in October. Brown says the city’s business people told him Auckland was lacking leadership on tech, despite it being home to around 60% of the country’s startups. He established the Auckland Innovation and Technology Alliance a year ago as a public-private partnership to foster collaboration across Auckland’s tech ecosystem. Better, cheaper, faster Brown draws on his engineering background and the lessons he collated in his 2007 book The Five Minute MBA to set a simple test for government, council and entrepreneurs alike. What is the problem you are fixing – and can it be solved better, cheaper and faster? Auckland, he says, needs more firms able to turn local capability into global businesses, particularly in areas that play to New Zealand’s strengths: medtech, agri-tech, and biotech. And he wants them to look beyond familiar markets in the US, UK and Australia. Brown argues the bigger opportunities lie in India, China, Indonesia, Brazil and Latin America – markets where Auckland’s diaspora communities, city-to-city relationships and sector expertise could give companies an edge. His assessment of the political scene as the general election approaches is brutal. Brown describes the party-political offering as an “unappetising smorgasbord”, rails against bureaucracy and corporate welfare, and questions New Zealand’s reflexive alignment with America on trade and technology. He’s particularly sceptical of the current data centre boom that Auckland is playing host to. “If they want to come here, what will you do for us to have your f**king boxes here? It’s not the other way around.” He has even less time for artificial intelligence. Expect strong language, challenging claims and plenty of eyebrow-raising takes. This is no polished mayoral interview. It is Wayne Brown, in full: opinionated, impatient and with his own firm ideas on how to make Auckland the tech centre of the South Pacific. Listen to the full episode streaming on iHeartRadio, Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

  7. Aug 12

    The Copilot engineer shaking up software development

    The engineer who helped make GitHub Copilot a global force is building its open alternative from Christchurch For millions of software developers, GitHub Copilot was the moment artificial intelligence stopped being an abstract promise and became a practical colleague. Suddenly, AI could sit in the coding environment, suggest the next line, explain unfamiliar code and help turn an idea into working software. It changed expectations of what a developer tool could do, and opened the door to a new generation of AI coding agents. Igor Costa was there as that shift gathered pace. The Brazilian-born, Christchurch-based founder of Autohand held senior engineering roles across Microsoft, GitHub and AWS, and played a pivotal role in the development and deployment of GitHub Copilot.  It is an experience that gave him a close-up view of the potential of AI-assisted software development and of the trade-offs that come with putting powerful capabilities in the hands of a small number of global technology platforms. Now Costa is building an alternative from New Zealand. His startup, Autohand, is developing AI agents designed to take on more of the repetitive, time-consuming work involved in building and maintaining software. It also treats software as constantly evolving code that refactors itself automatically, avoiding going out of date and becoming a security risk. But the company’s proposition is not simply that AI should write more code, or work faster. It is that businesses should retain control over the technology doing that work. That is why Autohand has embraced open source, releasing its code and building around open-source models. For Costa, the issue is one of sovereignty as much as capability. A company using AI to understand its systems, access its codebase and act across its engineering workflow needs to know where its data is going, how its tools behave and what degree of control it can retain. The market for AI coding tools is becoming crowded, well-funded and increasingly dominated by proprietary platforms. Costa’s bet is that a different model can succeed: powerful AI agents that are transparent, adaptable and deployable in ways that suit the organisations using them. In this episode of The Business of Tech, Costa talks about the formative years of GitHub Copilot, why he chose to build a company from Christchurch, and why he believes the next phase of software development will be shaped not only by what AI can do, but by who owns and controls it. It is a conversation about code, autonomy and the possibility that New Zealand can play a meaningful role in building the AI tools of the future. Listen to the latest episode of The Business of Tech with Igor Costa, founder of Autohand, streaming on iHeartRadio, Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

  8. Aug 5

    Factor’s electrifying, $35 million exit

    New Zealand’s startup scene loves a good success story, but few have moved as fast – or gone as deep – as Wellington energy software venture Factor. In this week’s episode of The Business of Tech, I talk to Factor co‑founder Jessica Venning‑Bryan to she and co-founder Simon Pohlen assembled a team with serious domain expertise, built a specialised energy pricing platform, landed major customers offshore, and sold to NZX‑listed utility software company Gentrack in barely two years. The exit, announced in May, was valued at $24.9 million with a $10 million earn-out tied to hitting $17 million in annual recurring revenue within three years. Gentrack funded the acquisition out of its cash reserves. Venning‑Bryan doesn’t sugar‑coat the journey. She talks candidly about the “fastest and longest” two years of her career – the tension between capital efficiency and ambition, the stress of fundraising, and the constant questioning of whether the team was moving fast enough or in the right direction.  If you’ve ever wondered what startup life really feels like beyond the glossy pitch decks, this conversation delivers the unvarnished reality. Deep domain experience pays off What makes Factor’s story compelling is how textbook “problem–founder fit” looks in practice. After a decade inside the energy sector at Flick Electric and Flux Federation, Venning‑Bryan and Pohlen knew, in forensic detail, the headaches utilities face trying to price complex commercial and industrial energy contracts.  Instead of accepting that clunky, generic enterprise software was as good as it gets, they built a true SaaS product – APIs for everything, rapid deployment, and integration into the messy legacy systems that dominate energy, banking and healthcare. The episode also digs into how Factor uses AI, including time‑series LLMs like Amazon’s Chronos. What this episode reinforces is that deep domain knowledge can be the most powerful startup advantage you have. It also reveals why API‑first SaaS remains a winning strategy in conservative, regulated industries, and how to think critically about AI’s role in high‑stakes forecasting and pricing.  Most importantly, Venning‑Bryan’s story is a nudge to anyone sitting inside an industry, staring at a persistent pain point: if you understand it better than anyone, why not be the one to fix it? Tune in to The Business of Tech this week to hear how Factor went from energy headaches to a $35 million exit – and what that playbook might mean for your own next move. Streaming on iHeartRadio, Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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About

The Business of Tech, hosted by leading tech journalist Peter Griffin. Every week they take a deep dive into emerging technology and news from the sector to help guide the important decisions all Business leaders make. Issues such as cybersecurity, retaining trust after a cyberattack, business IT needs, purchasing SaaS tools and more. New Episodes out every Thursday. Follow or subscribe to get it delivered straight to your favourite podcatcher. @petergnz @businessdesk_nz Proudly sponsored by 2degrees Business!  

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