The Leading Below the Surface Podcast with LaTonya Wilkins

LaTonya Wilkins
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Honest conversations on grounded leadership, identity, and what it means to lead and coach below the surface. Hosted by LaTonya Wilkins — award-winning executive coach and author of Leading Below the Surface — this podcast goes beyond strategy and into the real work: who you are, how you lead, and what becomes possible when you start leading below the surface. For leaders, coaches, and anyone navigating growth with intention. Learn more at changecoaches.io. Subscribe to our bi-monthly newsletter at https://change-coaches.kit.com/profile

  1. 1d ago

    Episode 72: Human Connection at Work Is Broken. Here's What Actually Works

    What if the highest-ROI program in your organization isn't a new tool or a new hire, but a mentoring program built on psychological safety? LaTonya Wilkins talks with Artimisha Curl, Head of Inclusion, Diversity, Equity & Belonging at El Camino Health, about the mentoring pilot they built from the ground up, why most programs fail before they start, what happens when mentors and mentees stop being separated, and why leaders learned as much as the people they mentored. 🎥 Prefer to watch? This episode is also available on YouTube Change Coaches on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@changecoaches/podcasts Episode Chapters & Key Moments [00:00] Welcome back & meet today's guest: Artimisha Curl A 23-year HR veteran who built something unexpectedFor anyone building community, making a business case or supporting burnt-out leaders[03:00] What sparked the mentoring program pilot The gap between talent and accessWhy potential is everywhere, but access is not[06:00] Equity, access, & who mentorship is really for Not a stereotypical mentoring cohort: that was the pointWhy leaders need expanded networks[09:00] Cross-functional matching: pairing a chief legal officer with marketing Why matching "just like us" reproduces inequityHow intentional, non-obvious pairing opened the organization's eco-system[12:00] Why this program went beyond traditional mentoring The truth about voluntold mentoring programsWhat made people actually want to show up[15:00] The learning series: psychological safety, belonging & leading across differences Four workshops gave people shared language for what they feltThe moment "psychological safety" clicked for healthcare leaders[18:00] What mentors & executive leaders actually got out of it Truth: C-suite leaders are hungry for developmentWhy mixing mentors & mentees changed everything[21:00] The art and science of matching: how blind trust became a game changer What happens when people don't fully understand each other's daily roles Why that trust built the strongest cross-functional partnerships[24:00] Measuring benefits beyond the traditional survey Artimisha hears about the program in unexpected spacesWhat self-sustaining development looks like[27:00] The subgroups that formed all on their own Thursday's session nobody planned and why it matteredWhen psychological safety outlives the program[30:00] From pilot to permanent: building the internal pipeline Why pipelines aren't built by accidentDeveloping talent from the inside out not just recruiting from outside[33:00] The application process and keeping access equitable How vetting works, and who's eligibleBalancing structure with genius accessibility[36:00] The ripple effect on culture Why culture changes slowly and then all at onceMicro-cultural shifts on teams that never touched the program directly [39:00] How to sell this program to your boss The vision is clear, the ROI data isn't there yetFinding change agents to carry the vision[42:00] Talking points for the ROI skeptics Tangible vs intangible ROIThe story matters as much as the numbers[44:00] Remote workers, wellness & where to find Artimisha A lifeline for people working from homeWhere to connect with Artimisha Learn More Email: info@changecoaches.ioCoaching Below the Surface Waitlist: https://changecoaches.io/coaching-below-the-surface-interest-form/Coaching Below the Surface (ICF-approved): https://changecoaches.io/coaching-below-the-surface/Newsletter: https://change-coaches.kit.com/profileChange Coaches on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@changecoaches/podcastsChange Coaches on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/change-coachesLaTonya Wilkins on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/latonyawilkins/Artimisha Curl on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/artimisha-curl #LeadingBelowTheSurface #MentorshipMatters #PsychologicalSafety #DEIB #LeadershipDevelopment #TalentDevelopment #HealthcareLeadership #WorkplaceCulture #InternalMobility #ICFCoaching #ChangeCoaches

  2. Jul 21

    Stop Marketing Harder. Become a Better Coach — and Connector.

    What if becoming a better coach and connector, not just a better marketer, is the real path to sustainable growth? In this solo episode of Leading Below the Surface, LaTonya Wilkins gets honest about why so many coaches and leaders are stuck doing all the right activities and still not breaking through. She unpacks the difference between surface-level networking and below-the-surface connection, why the people who seem to "get ahead" often crash out, and what it actually means to differentiate yourself in an AI age, not with tools, but with identity.   🎥 Prefer to watch? This episode is also available on YouTube with chapters: https://www.youtube.com/@changecoaches/podcasts   Episode Chapters & Key Moments   [00:00]  Welcome back & announcements from Change Coaches LaTonya returns with a solo deep dive: the first in a while.  Updates on the newsletter, YouTube, and what's coming next   [03:00]  Coaching Below the Surface™ — two cohorts coming September 2026. What the program is, who it's for, and why it exists.  The link between the book Leading Below the Surface and this training   [06:00]  Marketing & networking on the surface vs. connecting below it. Are these two things mutually exclusive? LaTonya says yes.  Why below-the-surface connection is more sustainable, more grounded, and more aligned  [09:00]  Two coaches who felt like they weren't "real" coaches.  The coach gets clients but unable to go deeper with them. The coach with an ACC who still didn't feel like a coach   [12:00]  The leader who networks well but crashes out every time.  Why the people who seem to get everything often don't last.  What LaTonya has seen happen when values and skill aren't aligned   [15:00]  Short term appearance vs. long term reality. The most important distinction in this episode.  Why chasing short-term wins is a losing long game.   [18:00]  Lizzo, AI, and why the leveling is already happening. What a flopped album has to do with your coaching business.   Why AI is a tool and not the differentiator everyone thinks it is   [21:00]  Your differentiator isn't a tool, it's your identity as a leader. What LaTonya means by identity (and what she doesn't).  The questions that most coaches and leaders never get around to asking   [24:00]  What competent coaches and great leaders have in common. They don't chase clients  and they don't have unmanageable team issues.  How staying ahead is a byproduct of going deeper   [27:00]  What to do next. How to go deeper with Coaching Below the Surface™. Where to find LaTonya and stay connected   Learn More🔹 Send me an email: info@changecoaches.io🔹Join our Coaching Below the Surface Waitlist: https://changecoaches.io/coaching-below-the-surface-interest-form/ 🔹 Coaching Below the Surface™ (ICF-approved, September 2026 cohorts): https://changecoaches.io/coaching-below-the-surface/  🔹 Leading Below the Surface newsletter (semi-monthly): https://change-coaches.kit.com/profile  🔹 Change Coaches on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@changecoaches/podcasts  🔹 Follow Change Coaches on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/change-coaches 🔹 Connect with LaTonya Wilkins on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/latonyawilkins/

  3. Jul 16

    EP 70: Is Organizational Coaching Actually Working? AI, Capacity & the Truth About Coaching in Organizations

    Why do companies hire a coach instead of fixing the real problem? In this episode of Leading Below the Surface, LaTonya Wilkins sits down with Katherine Lord, MSW, LSW, Director of Organizational Member Experience at ICF Coaching in Organizations for a candid conversation about what coaching actually does and doesn't do, why “ROI” is the wrong lens for measuring its impact, and how organizations sometimes use coaching to avoid holding up the mirror to themselves. From the “barge in a canal” theory of organizational change to why an AI coach will never replace a human one, this episode goes below the surface of what coaching in companies really looks like. 🎥 Prefer to watch? This episode is also available on YouTube with chapters: https://www.youtube.com/@changecoaches/podcasts Episode Chapters & Key Moments [00:00] Welcome & introducing Katherine Lord [04:29] Katherine's path from social work to coaching at ICF [08:06] “Therapy's backward, coaching's forward” [12:12] Return on Investment vs. Return on Expectation (ROE) [16:27] Why there's no clean ROI formula for coaching [20:28] The case for humans over widget, and over AI, as the investment [22:48] Organizational coaching is still coaching [24:53] Do orgs hire coaches to avoid systemic problems? [29:53] A real case study: burnout, silos, and a mirror the org wasn't ready for [31:31] Where AI and coaching actually intersect [35:09] AI as a “capacity builder” and not a magic pill [37:58] Tech backlash: why forcing AI adoption backfires [42:14] “We scale what we value” [43:25] Human-to-human connection vs. talking to Alexa [45:48] What should orgs look for when hiring a coach? [48:47] Debunking the myth that big companies only hire big coaching firms Associated Links 🔹 Katherine Lord: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katherineblord/ 🔹 ICF Coaching in Organizations: https://coachingfederation.org/about/the-icf-ecosystem/icf-coaching-in-organization/ 🔹 International Coaching Federation: https://coachingfederation.org 🔹 Explore Coaching Below the Surface™ (ICF-approved): https://changecoaches.io/coaching-below-the-surface/ 🔹 Follow Change Coaches on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/change-coaches 🔹 LaTonya Wilkins on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/latonyawilkins/ 🔹 If this conversation resonated, come go deeper with me. I send a semi-monthly newsletter on grounded leadership, identity, and what it means to lead below the surface. Join here: https://change-coaches.kit.com/profile TAGS #CoachingInOrganizations #ExecutiveCoaching #CoachingROI #LeadershipDevelopment #OrganizationalChange #ICF #AIandCoaching #WorkplaceCulture #LeadingBelowTheSurface #ChangeCoaches

  4. Jun 17

    EP 69: Why You Over-Function (and How to Stop)

    What if healing your inner child could unlock the wisdom of your ancestors? In this episode of Leading Below the Surface, LaTonya Wilkins sits down with Tamala Floyd, Licensed Clinical Social Worker, Psychotherapist, and the first Black IFS lead trainer  for a raw and revelatory conversation about Internal Family Systems (IFS), ancestral trauma, and what it really takes to heal below the surface. From navigating white-dominated spaces to transforming inherited rage, Tamala shares how IFS can reach the communities that need it most and how you can start your own healing journey without ever stepping into a therapy office. 🎥 Prefer to watch? This episode is also available on YouTube with chapters: https://www.youtube.com/@changecoaches/podcasts Episode Chapters [00:00] Welcome & introducing Tamala Floyd LaTonya shares how she discovered Tamala's book through a previous guest Why she's fangirling — and what makes this conversation different [03:15] Being the first Black IFS lead trainer How Tamala came to IFS through The Body Keeps the Score What it means to be a gatekeeper — and why representation in leadership matters [07:30] Bringing IFS into Black and marginalized communities Why language and framing matter when working across cultures The "storyteller part" — and why Tamala pushed back on the traditional IFS approach [11:00] What IFS actually is — and why it's not a fad Parts, protectors, and getting to the root of trauma (not just managing it) [15:00] LaTonya's personal IFS session & the ten-year-old within A vulnerable share about divorce, displacement, and emotional catharsis What it felt like to finally talk to her younger self [18:00] Tamala's ten-year-old — abandonment, rejection, and healing How Tamala's own wound shaped her people-pleasing and rage What happened when that part finally released its burden [20:30] Reconnecting with your inner child through travel, play, and joy How Tamala's ten-year-old "drags her by the hand" to the beach Why adult joy doesn't have to look exactly like childhood joy — just carry its spirit [26:00] Where to start: what's not working & what triggers you Two entry points for doing your own IFS work The question to ask yourself when a protective part shows up: What am I afraid would happen if I didn't do this? [31:00] Jealousy, envy, and the fixed vs. growth mindset What envy is really protecting — and the scarcity wound underneath Why two things can be true at once [34:00] Parts, contradictions, and why you're not inconsistent How to make sense of holding opposing beliefs at the same time "You're dealing with two different parts of me" — the most freeing reframe [37:00] Legacy burdens and bringing in ancestral wisdom Tamala's original contribution to IFS: inviting ancestors in to release inherited wounds Why it's not your burden to carry — and how to let it go for your whole lineage [41:00] Altars, ancestors, and practical ways to connect Where to start if you want to connect with your ancestors today Plants, photos, and conversations — small acts with big resonance [43:00] Healing Works Academy — IFS for everyone Why Tamala created an online space for self-guided IFS healing [45:00] Where to find Tamala & final thoughts Resources, platforms, and how to go deeper with this work Resources  🔹 Tamala Floyd: https://tamalafloyd.com 🔹 Healing Works Academy:https://www.tamalafloyd.com/work-with-me/    🔹 Book: Listening When Parts Speak — available at Bookshop.org  🔹 Explore Coaching Below the Surface™ (ICF-approved): https://changecoaches.io/coaching-below-the-surface/ 🔹 Follow Change Coaches on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/change-coaches 🔹 LaTonya Wilkins on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/latonyawilkins/ 🔹 If this conversation resonated, come go deeper with me. I send a semi-monthly newsletter on grounded leadership, identity, and what it means to lead below the surface. Join here: https://change-coaches.kit.com/profile

  5. May 27

    Ep 68: HR Is Not Your Friend. Or Are They?

    Is HR really your friend? In this episode of Leading Below the Surface, LaTonya Wilkins sits down with two seasoned HR veterans, Turiya Gray (HR Unconfidential) and Krista Lane (HR Peep Show) for a candid, unfiltered conversation about what it really means to work in and with HR. From surprise performance reviews to AI-driven layoffs to the myth of the strategic seat at the table, they go below the surface on what HR is actually for, who holds the power, and what it looks like when HR leaders show up with courage. 🎥 Prefer to watch? This episode is also available on YouTube with chapters: https://www.youtube.com/@changecoaches/podcasts Episode Chapters & Key Moments [00:00] Is HR your friend? Setting the stage LaTonya shares what inspired this episode: layoffs, bad experiences, and a question she couldn't shake. [03:15] Introducing Turiya Gray, fractional CPO, 25+ years in HR From leading HR teams at tech companies to fractional work and why she's "over the HR profession." [05:00] Introducing Krista Lane,fractional HR for startups and nonprofits Why she got into fractional HR and what she means by "secretly not boring." [06:40] LaTonya's HR horror stories: A mentor who gave a surprise bad review. A senior leader who fast-tracked her then ghosted her. Sound familiar? [09:55] Performance reviews: the real story. Why surprises in reviews signal a broken system, misaligned incentives, and a culture of fear instead of growth. [10:00] Turiya's honest take: HR is not your friend. What HR should be and why conflating the role with friendship creates unrealistic expectations and real harm. [13:40] So who is HR actually for? Navigating the multi-spoke service model between company, leaders, and employees, and where the hierarchy really lives. [23:50] AI as a layoff excuse: myth or reality? Why Krista is skeptical that AI alone drives major workforce reductions, and what's actually going on under the hood. [28:50] The HR pushback problem: How effective HR leaders pressure-test business decisions and why too many roll over instead. [35:30] Coaching people out vs. pushing them out. Why LaTonya believes in coaching as an exit strategy, and what a more humane, low-friction separation actually looks like. [37:00] The PIP problem. Turiya's 50 questions. Why Turiya asks 49 questions about the manager before agreeing to put anyone on a performance improvement plan. [42:40] What grounded HR leadership really looks like. Values, courage, business acumen, and creativity and why the HR playbook is overdue for disruption. [48:00] Where to find Turiya and Krista Podcast links, events, and how to connect. Calls to Action 🔹 Turiya Gray — HR Unconfidential Podcast (100th episode coming this summer!): https://www.linkedin.com/company/hr-unconfidential  🔹 Krista Lane — HR Peep Show Podcast + Headwaters HR: headwatershr.com  🔹 Explore Coaching Below the Surface™ (ICF-approved): https://changecoaches.io/coaching-below-the-surface/  🔹 Follow Change Coaches on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/change-coaches  🔹 Connect with LaTonya Wilkins on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/latonyawilkins/

  6. Apr 20

    Ep 67: Who Are You, Really? Astrology, Identity & Grounded Leadership

    What if the stars could help you understand your identity, your growth, and your next chapter? In this episode of Leading Below the Surface, LaTonya Wilkins reunites with identity and belonging coach Erin Corine Johnson for a deeply personal and expansive conversation about astrology, decolonizing coaching, and what it really means to show up for yourself and others below the surface. Drawing from her own coaching journey and LaTonya's biggest life transitions, Erin unpacks how astrology can serve as a grounding tool for identity work, and what becomes possible when we stop letting capitalism define how we show up for each other. ---- Chapters [00:00] Welcome back & what's been happening at Change Coaches  [03:15] Reintroducing Erin Corine Johnson — from Chicago to Spain  [07:30] How LaTonya and Erin started working together  [11:00] Astrology as a coaching tool — beyond the sun sign  [16:20] Your big three: sun, moon, and rising explained  [22:00] The lunar cycle and how to use it in your life and work  [28:30] What leadership really is — and why it's both abstract and concrete  [34:00] Decolonizing coaching — what it means and why it matters  [40:15] Why capitalism is the only reason to gatekeep your care  [46:00] No one is ever too much — a new coaching philosophy  ⸻ Learn More 🔹 Erin Corine Johnson: https://identitybelongingcoach.com | https://holamagnolia.com/ 🔹 Coaching Below the Surface™ (ICF-approved program): https://changecoaches.io/coaching-below-the-surface/ 🔹 Change Coaches on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/change-coaches 🔹 LaTonya Wilkins on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/latonyawilkins/ 🎥 Prefer to watch? This episode is also available on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@changecoaches/podcasts Get a free astrology birth chart here: https://www.chani.com/chart

  7. Mar 11

    Ep 66: Money Below the Surface: How Our Stories, Systems, And Nervous Systems Shape Financial Choices

    What does your relationship with money really say about you — and the systems you were raised in? In this episode of Leading Below the Surface, LaTonya Wilkins sits down with financial coach and trainer Saundra Davis for a raw, wise, and deeply human conversation about money, trauma, and economic justice. Drawing from decades of experience at the intersection of financial coaching and economic justice, Saundra unpacks why so many people — especially people of color — struggle with money, and why that struggle has far less to do with personal failure than with systems designed to extract wealth from those least equipped to fight back. This episode offers compassion, clarity, and a reframe of what it truly means to build wealth. 🎥 Prefer to watch? This episode is also available on YouTube with chapters:https://www.youtube.com/@changecoaches/podcasts Episode Chapters & Key Moments [00:00] Intro & how LaTonya met Saundra at ICF Converge The story behind the connection and what makes Saundra's work distinctAuntie energy and why it matters in financial coaching[04:30] Auntie energy, kinfolk, and the generational gap What it means to show up with warmth and zero judgmentBridging generational differences in how we talk about money[10:00] Music, community, and staying connected across generations How shared culture keeps us rootedThe role of community in financial healing[16:20] Growing up poor and the scarcity mindset How childhood environments shape our earliest money beliefsWhy scarcity thinking isn't a personal flaw — it's a survival response[21:00] How the environment creates our relationship with money Systems, not character, create povertyWhy shame around money is a design feature, not a bug[26:45] Trauma, money, and two kids raised in the same house How the same circumstances can produce opposite money responsesWhy both responses make complete sense[31:30] Why people in poverty pay more — and the consumer trap Predatory credit, bank fees, and the true cost of being poorHow the financial system extracts wealth from those with the least[37:00] LaTonya's first car and what she was really buying The deeper emotional drivers behind financial decisionsWhy every purchase makes sense when you understand the belief behind it[43:00] Guilt, giving back, and the "Black tax" myth The emotional weight of financial success in community-oriented culturesReframing obligation and generosity[49:15] Money in service of your goals Wealth-building as honoring those who came beforeShifting from scarcity to purpose-driven financial thinking[54:00] The Starbucks story — what are you really buying? You're never just buying the thingPeace, connection, identity, and belonging as real financial motivators[58:30] Where to start: resources, kindness, and next steps Practical entry points for your financial journeyStarting with self-compassion, not self-criticism Calls to Action 🔹 Learn more about Saundra Davis & Sage Financial Solutions:https://sagefinancialsolutions.org 🔹 Explore Coaching Below the Surface™ (ICF-approved):https://changecoaches.io/coaching-below-the-surface/ 🔹 Follow Change Coaches on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/company/change-coaches 🔹 Connect with LaTonya Wilkins on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/latonyawilkins/

  8. Feb 2

    Ep 65: Why Many Leaders and Coaches Feel Ready for Something Different

    In this solo episode, LaTonya Wilkins explores a feeling many leaders, coaches, and consultants are quietly naming right now: the sense that traditional leadership frameworks and learning models no longer meet the complexity of today’s world. Drawing from recent client work, leadership development experience, and conversations across industries, LaTonya unpacks what’s no longer working, what leaders are truly craving, and why presence, trust, and community matter more than ever in this moment. This episode offers reflection prompts and a grounded invitation to consider how leadership and coaching must evolve beyond transactional approaches. 🎥 Prefer to watch? This episode is also available on YouTube with chapters: https://www.youtube.com/@changecoaches/podcasts Episode Chapters & Key Moments [00:00] Why leaders feel ready for something new Naming the collective feeling many leaders and coaches are experiencing Why this isn’t burnout or lack of skill [02:45] What’s no longer working in leadership development The limits of frameworks, checklists, and box solutions Why ROI-driven models fall short in today’s environment [07:20] The realities leaders are navigating right now Constant reorganization, overload, and shifting expectations What gets lost when everything becomes a priority [12:10] What leaders are actually craving Presence, trust, hope, courage, and community Why adaptability alone isn’t enough [17:05] From information to experience Why information is no longer the currency The power of containers, practice, and self-authorship [22:30] Community at work and why it matters The role of connection, psychological safety, and belonging What happens when leaders don’t have space to process [27:40] What works at this stage of leadership Presence as a practice Trust built in real time through listening and empathy [32:10] Reflection questions for leaders and coaches What are you craving differently right now? What no longer works for you? [36:00] Coaching Below the Surface and what’s next Creating containers for leaders and coaches Upcoming March 2026 pods and organizational offerings Calls to Action 🔹 Explore Coaching Below the Surface™ (ICF-approved): https://changecoaches.io/coaching-below-the-surface/ 🔹 Follow Change Coaches on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/change-coaches 🔹 Connect with LaTonya Wilkins on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/latonyawilkins/

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Honest conversations on grounded leadership, identity, and what it means to lead and coach below the surface. Hosted by LaTonya Wilkins — award-winning executive coach and author of Leading Below the Surface — this podcast goes beyond strategy and into the real work: who you are, how you lead, and what becomes possible when you start leading below the surface. For leaders, coaches, and anyone navigating growth with intention. Learn more at changecoaches.io. Subscribe to our bi-monthly newsletter at https://change-coaches.kit.com/profile

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