Profit First for Lawyers

Team RJon | RJon Robins
  • 4.8 (24)
  • Management
  • Updated Weekly

The Profit First for Lawyers podcast is the companion show to the book, Profit First for Lawyers by RJon Robins. The goal of the book and podcast are to empower lawyers with practical and actionable information to help them improve their lives by putting their family, their firm, and their Profits First.

  1. Understanding the Stages of a Law Firm’s Growth

    1d ago

    Understanding the Stages of a Law Firm’s Growth

    “If we can develop good habits for you when your business is still in the first stage of growth, you’re going to bring those good habits with you into business maturity.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers A growing business requires a growing owner. During a Q&A session in part two of our seven-part series, RJon explains why financial literacy does not carry the same weight at every stage of growth. In the earliest stages, the owner’s job is to “hustle, market, and sell.” New benchmarks require the owner to develop new skills, learn to hire, delegate, and build team productivity. Then as the business becomes more complex, financial literacy, systems, metrics, and accountability become increasingly important. The lesson is not simply that law firms grow in stages. It is that the owner must gain new skills and maturity to grow with the firm. Financial Literacy in Context Financial literacy is not equally important at every stage of growth. A growing business requires the owner to keep learning, adapting, and leading differently. Action Steps Identify which stage of growth best describes your firm today. Determine the most important priorities for that stage. Review the financial reports currently available. Commit to building one financial habit that will strengthen your understanding of the business over time. The goal is not to master every financial concept at once. The goal is to begin building the habits that will support your next stage of growth. Mentioned Part One: You’re Not Bad With Numbers Chapters 12-15 of Profit First for Lawyers The Seven Stages of Law Firm Growth Connect Subscribe to the Profit First for Lawyers podcast Watch episodes on YouTube And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!

    30 min
  2. Regaining Time

    3d ago

    Regaining Time

    “We are going to break away from the dictionary’s limited definition of profit and profitable, which only account for financial profits.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers For many law firm owners, profitability is measured by one thing: money. But what if profit gives you something even more valuable? Time. In this episode, Michigan estate planning attorney Rose Coonen shares how implementing Profit First accounting principles transformed not only her firm’s finances, but also how she spends her time, serves her clients, and shows up for her family. Redefining Profit RJon challenges the traditional definition of profit and introduces a broader perspective: profit can be personal and professional as well as financial. For Rose, that shift in understanding changed everything. Since implementing Profit First three years ago, she has built a strong financial foundation, gained the freedom to stop working with toxic clients, become more present with the families she serves, and grow a law firm that supports the life she wants to live. Today, her law firm is a family affair with her husband and daughter working alongside her as the business continues to grow and serve her community. What started as a desire for greater financial stability ultimately became a way to regain control of her time. Key Takeaways Profit is about more than money Financial profit creates personal and professional opportunities Regaining your time starts with building a stronger financial foundation A profitable law firm gives you the choice of working with your ideal clients Growth allows for creative ideas to serve more clients, support more team members, and make a greater impact in your community. Sometimes the most meaningful result isn’t found on a financial statement. It is the ability to spend more time with family, build a business that aligns with your values, and make a greater impact in your community. Because the most valuable form of profit may be time itself Mentioned Plan Like You Won’t Be Here Tomorrow Connect and Engage Connect directly with Rose Coonen: https://coonen-law.com Subscribe to the Profit First for Lawyers podcast Watch episodes on YouTube Follow Profit First For Lawyers on social media: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!

    30 min
  3. You’re Not Bad With Numbers

    May 28

    You’re Not Bad With Numbers

    “I want to expose you to a really cool world of financial literacy to empower you to be better, more confident business owners.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers If financial reports, spreadsheets, or business metrics have ever made you want to tune out, this episode is for you. In part one of a seven-part series on financial controls, RJon explains why financial literacy is not about becoming an accountant or learning advanced math. It’s about learning to recognize the story your numbers are already telling you about your business. Featuring clips of RJon from a 2019 financial literacy workshop, this episode introduces foundational concepts that would later appear in Profit First for Lawyers. As the first installment in a seven-part series, it explores how learning the language of business and finance can change the way law firm owners see and understand their firms. With greater financial literacy comes the ability to recognize patterns, opportunities, and warning signs that may have previously gone unnoticed. The goal is not perfection. The goal is confidence, awareness, and the ability to make better business decisions over time. Key Takeaways Financial literacy is learnable. You do not need to become an accountant to become a stronger business owner. Learning financial concepts changes how you see your business. Awareness creates more confident decision-making. Mentioned: This episode pairs especially well with Chapter 10: Is It Overhead or Overhead? from Profit First for Lawyers, where RJon explains how financial literacy changes the way law firm owners understand and manage their business. RJon Robins – From The Vault podcast: This podcast is for law firm owners and delivers expanded lessons in addition to the core teachings which are found in Profit First for Lawyers. Frequency illusion aka Baader-Meinhof phenomenon – Wikipedia definition Connect Subscribe to the Profit First for Lawyers podcast Watch episodes on YouTube Follow Profit First for Lawyers on social media: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!

    14 min
  4. Getting Rid of Guessing

    May 26

    Getting Rid of Guessing

    “Your law firm is a business. Your business is supposed to work for you.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers For many law firm owners, profitability seems uncertain. Maybe there will be money left over at the end of the year. Maybe there won’t be. For years, that was exactly how Matt Loker approached business ownership. That changed when he implemented Profit First accounting principles. By building stronger systems, he replaced guessing with structure, clarity, and intentional growth. In this episode, Matt shares how shifting from reactive decision-making to measurable systems transformed both his law firm and his family life. What Business Owners and Farmers Have In Common Drawing inspiration from one of RJon’s most memorable analogies, Matt explains why so many law firm owners unintentionally build businesses that depend entirely on them. But just like a farmer cannot successfully operate an entire farm alone, law firm owners cannot sustainably grow a business without systems, structure, and a strong team. As Matt stopped guessing about profits, his law firm evolved from a solo practice into a business that is growing nationally. His law firm is now capable of operating successfully even when he is away for extended periods of time. This has given him the ability to create experiences and opportunities for his family that once felt out of reach. From Guessing to Predictability By creating structure around profitability, distributions, systems, and operational planning, Matt was able to: Make more objective business decisions Grow his team intentionally Increase owner benefit Create more stability inside the business The result was not just a larger seven-figure firm, but a more predictable and sustainable one. Mentioned: Systems & Processes Template How To Mange a Small Law Firm Connect Connect directly with Matt Loker: https://www.loker.law Subscribe to the Profit First for Lawyers podcast Watch episodes on YouTube Follow Profit First for Lawyers on social media: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!

    37 min
  5. Think Like a Business Owner, Not Like a Lawyer

    May 21

    Think Like a Business Owner, Not Like a Lawyer

    “The biggest challenge we have in helping someone go from zero to seven figures… is that they don’t believe it’s possible.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers Why do brilliant lawyers struggle to build profitable businesses? That’s a question you’ll find the answer to in this episode where RJon explains the fundamental mindset shift that separates struggling attorneys from successful business owners. He does this by illustrating just how simple a business is to run with the 7 Main Parts of Every Successful Law Firm: Marketing Sales Production People Physical Plant Financial Controls (Money & Metrics) You (Owner’s Goals) In season one, we did an entire series on the 7 Main Parts. See links in the Resources Mentioned section to access those episodes directly. Additional context of this framework can be read in Chapter 5 of the Profit First for Lawyers book. The Identity Challenge RJon begins with a radical challenge: stop calling yourself a lawyer. Start saying, “I’m a business owner who sells legal services.” This isn’t just semantics. It’s the foundation for everything that follows. Lawyers who identify as business owners think differently, plan differently, and execute differently. The challenge? Self-sabotage. Overcomplicating the process. Not believing YOU can do it. The Business Owner Mindset Everyone in your ecosystem wants profit: your family, your clients, and you. Business owners understand this. They think in terms of return on investment. They have a business plan they actively use that they measure their business against. When metrics scream: ‘Hire someone! Expand! Invest!’ they listen and take action. Your Action Steps: Start identifying as a business owner who sells legal services Write a simple business plan using the seven-part framework Stop overcomplicating what should be straightforward systems Believe rapid growth is possible for you If your business plan reads like a legal treatise, you’re thinking like a lawyer, not a business owner. Great business plans are simple, readable, and actionable. Resources mentioned: Chapter 5: The Seven Main Parts of Every Successful Law Firm Season 1 Series on the Seven Main Parts: 1. Marketing 2. Sales 3. Production 4. People 5. Physical Plant 6. Money & Metrics (Financial Controls) 7. YOU Connect Subscribe to the Profit First for Lawyers podcast Watch episodes on YouTube Follow Profit First for Lawyers on social media: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!

    14 min
  6. Dream Bigger with Courage and Math

    May 19

    Dream Bigger with Courage and Math

    “I want you to feel empowered by the knowledge that GAAP is not the only way to manage a small law firm to profitability.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers In this episode, Pietro Canestrelli shares how following Profit First accounting principles helped transform not just his law firm’s profitability, but the way he thinks about ownership, decision-making, hiring, and growth. Drawing from his experience as both a longtime tax attorney and as the owner of a rapidly growing law firm, Pietro explains why GAAP accounting was never designed to help small law firms maximize profitability and why business owners must become comfortable looking at their numbers regularly. Regular listeners know that RJon frequently speaks about GAAP and that there is an entire chapter titled, “Why Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP) Are Not Meant For You” (Chapter 8) in Profit First for Lawyers. Well worth a second or third read for those who need a refresher. Courage and Math Pietro introduces a phrase that he says law firm owners need in order to build a profitable business: courage and math. The courage to face reality. The math to make objective decisions. The Importance of Looking at Your Numbers One of the most practical lessons in this episode is the importance of reviewing business metrics consistently, especially when the numbers are uncomfortable. By regularly reviewing data like leads, production, consultations, and conversion rates, he was able to identify operational issues quickly and make adjustments before larger problems developed. Because avoiding financial reality does not prevent the consequences. Connect Connect directly with Pietro Canestrelli: https://ietaxattorney.com/pietro-canestrelli Learn more about America’s Tax Defender book by Pietro Cannestrelli Subscribe to the Profit First for Lawyers podcast Watch episodes on YouTube Follow Profit First for Lawyers on social media: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!

    43 min
  7. Law Firm Owners: Who Is Serving Whom?

    May 14

    Law Firm Owners: Who Is Serving Whom?

    “The firm is supposed to serve you. You are not supposed to live in service to the firm.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers Is your law firm improving your life, or consuming it? This episode explores one of the most important mindset shifts a law firm owner can make: your business is supposed to support your life, not the other way around. In clips from a 2021 Profit First for Lawyers livestream and the October 2023 Live Quarterly Meeting, RJon challenges law firm owners to rethink their relationship with their firms. Using a colorful analogy comparing a law firm to both a baby and a mule, he illustrates a critical distinction that can change how law firm owners approach business ownership. Exercise: 7 Parts of Every Successful (and Unsuccessful) Law Firm RJon encourages law firm owners to evaluate the seven core parts of their business to identify where the biggest operational gaps exist. The goal of this exercise is to be aware of key parts within your business that need the most attention. This isn’t about perfection. It is an opportunity to intentionally improve the weaker areas in your business. The 7 Parts exercise is outlined in more detail in the Profit First for Lawyers book. Resource: Business Plan Workbook The Business Plan Workbook resource is designed to help law firm owners evaluate the operational strengths and weaknesses inside their law firms. Download the Business Plan Workbook to begin building a business that supports your goals, your family, and your future. Key Takeaways Your law firm should serve your goals. Skill gaps and operational blind spots create unnecessary stress. Use the exercises and resources from this episode to identify where to begin. Low-performing areas of your business are opportunities for growth, not personal failures. Successful firms are built through intentional management, systems, and leadership. This episode may challenge law firm owners who think of their business as their baby. But ultimately, it’s meant to offer insight that can fundamentally shift how they lead, manage, and grow their firm. A healthy law firm should support the people it was designed to serve, including the owner. Connect Referenced in this episode:  How To Manage a Small Law Firm Waiting Room Business Plan Workbook Subscribe to the Profit First for Lawyers podcast Watch episodes on YouTube Follow Profit First for Lawyers on social media: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today! https://youtu.be/28CUMZRhncQ

    13 min
  8. Leveling Up Profit First

    May 12

    Leveling Up Profit First

    “Implementing Profit First in your law firm is a meaningful first step that you can take that will help you correct this costly and stressful misalignment between yourself and the clients of your law firm.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers For many law firm owners, profit feels uncomfortable. Maybe even selfish. But what if profit isn’t the problem? In this episode, immigration attorney Jennifer Walker Gates shares how implementing Profit First transformed not just her law firm, but her entire relationship with money, ownership, and profitability. Coming from a nonprofit background and serving primarily working-class immigrant families, Jennifer admits she once viewed profit as a “dirty word.” Charging for legal services felt emotionally complicated, and looking closely at financial numbers often created anxiety instead of clarity. What Is Profit Really? Everything began to shift after reading Profit First by Mike Michalowicz. She now had a new way of thinking about profit, and that thinking was elevated even further after reading Profit First for Lawyers by RJon Robins. The law firm-specific focus helped her rethink what profitability could look like in the context of running a law firm. Not as greed. Not as taking from clients, but as a mutually beneficial exchange. This transformative understanding changed everything. By implementing Profit First methodology in her firm, she was prepared when an unexpected financial downturn occurred. She saw the benefits of Profit First in real time. That experience cemented the practical reality of prioritizing profit. From implementing Profit First accounting, reframing overhead as an investment, and overcoming fear around financial visibility, Jennifer shares how small changes in financial thinking created major changes in both her business and her life. Today, she views profit not as something to avoid, but as something that protects the future of her firm, the people she serves, and her family. Gaining Financial Clarity For Jennifer, one of the biggest mindset shifts was recognizing that profit and purpose are NOT opposites. A law firm that protects its profits is a law firm that can survive economic downturns, support its team, continue serving clients, and create stability for the owner’s family. When law firm owners avoid looking at their numbers, anxiety grows. But when they begin building systems that protect profit, they gain the confidence to make objective financial decisions. The result is not just a healthier business, but a healthier relationship with money itself. Connect Contact Jennifer Walker Gates directly: www.JLW.law Referenced in episode: Static and Dynamic Overhead episode  How To Manage a Small Law Firm Mentioned: Profit First by Mike Michalowicz Subscribe to the Profit First for Lawyers podcast Watch episodes on YouTube Follow Profit First for Lawyers on social media: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!

    33 min
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About

The Profit First for Lawyers podcast is the companion show to the book, Profit First for Lawyers by RJon Robins. The goal of the book and podcast are to empower lawyers with practical and actionable information to help them improve their lives by putting their family, their firm, and their Profits First.

Information

  • Creator
    Team RJon | RJon Robins
  • Years Active
    2023 - 2026
  • Episodes
    90
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    ©2023-2025, Profit First For Lawyers - RJon Robins, All Rights Reserved
  • Show Website
    Profit First for Lawyers

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