Life After Ministry

Matt Davis
  • 5.0 (18)
  • Non-Profit
  • Semiweekly

Many of us have experienced the sting of losing a job. But there’s something uniquely challenging about leaving a position in full-time vocational ministry. Whether you’re stepping down from a church or leaving a Christian nonprofit, it’s not as simple as just changing jobs. Suddenly, everything changes. You’re left navigating not just a career transition, but also a profound shift in identity, community, and daily routines. It feels like stepping into an unknown, filled with questions like, ”What now? What’s next? How do I redefine myself outside the ministry? How do I maintain my faith amidst this transition?” Welcome to the Life After Ministry Podcast. We’ve been there, navigating the complex journey from vocational ministry to a new chapter in our lives. We’ll explore stories of transformation, hear from those who’ve walked this path before, and provide practical strategies to turn your transition into transformation.

  1. 2d ago

    Your Bylaws Would Like a Word (featuring Sheila Bennett)

    Some churches find their bylaws only after a pastor announces a departure. Then they discover the documents haven’t been reviewed in decades. Sheila Bennett would rather help a board ask those questions earlier. With more than twenty years in church finance and operations, she sees governance as part of caring for the people doing ministry. Sheila joins us to discuss why churches need structures that serve the organization beyond its current leader.  We talk about choosing board members for more than proximity, understanding a congregation’s relationships, and making sure someone owns the work happening behind the scenes. There’s also an honest exchange about why pastors avoid this material. We would prefer Leviticus to business paperwork. Sheila explains why she finds purpose in the details we’d gladly hand to someone else. Key Takeaways Review governing documents before a crisis or leadership change makes the questions urgent.Build structures that can serve the church beyond a beloved pastor or founding team.Choose board members for character and useful perspectives, rather than familiarity alone.Church operations require an understanding of relationships as well as practical skills.Give capable people responsibility for the work behind the scenes so pastors aren’t carrying every concern.Chapter Markers 00:00 – The work that helps a church outlast its leader 05:43 – How Sheila found her calling in church operations 10:52 – Why church business takes more than business skills 19:42 – Bylaws, board selection, and practical oversight 28:20 – Staying hopeful and helping churches get organized Resources Explore Sheila’s coauthored book, Church, Inc.: Systematic Surgery for Modern Ministry. Check out Sheila’s ministry at ministrymanager.org Preparing for a leadership change? Start a confidential conversation at ministrytransitions.com.

    Your Bylaws Would Like a Word (featuring Sheila Bennett)

  2. Oct 20

    How Father-Son Ministry Succession Works (featuring Jonathan & David Shibley)

    Who gets to lead when the founder is still in the room? For David and Jonathan Shibley, that question came with another relationship to protect: father and son. On Life After Ministry, I talk with them about the succession at Global Advance and the choices that helped it work. Jonathan served for ten years before becoming president, giving the board time to observe him and ministry partners time to know him. David continued serving while publicly supporting Jonathan's leadership. We also discuss the pressure of comparison, the weight of becoming responsible for other people's livelihoods, and what their wives experienced along the way. For a board preparing its own leadership handoff, this conversation gives an honest look at the preparation and personal care that a healthy succession requires. Key Takeaways Give the board time to assess readiness. Jonathan's last name came with expectations. Years of service gave the board an opportunity to observe his work before appointing him president.Prepare people for the relationship as well as the announcement. Staff and ministry partners had opportunities to see David and Jonathan work together before the presidency changed hands.Give the successor room to lead differently. David affirmed Jonathan publicly and kept their disagreements between them, helping people understand whose leadership to follow.Ask what the family will carry. Travel demands and conversations at home affected their wives differently. Each family needed room to name what worked for them.Plan for meaningful life after the role. The board and Jonathan addressed David and Naomi's financial future, and David continued serving through writing and other ministry work.Chapter Markers 00:00 A father-son succession worth learning from 01:21 How the possibility of succession began 06:22 Serving without a promised title 08:38 The three envelopes story 11:13 Preparing stakeholders and releasing authority 16:31 Giving a successor opportunities to learn 19:08 Following a father everyone knows 21:06 The weight of becoming president 27:07 Holding a ministry and an identity with humility 31:17 What their wives and families carried 36:10 When the founder remains involved 38:56 Meaningful ministry after the presidency 44:07 The work of Global Advance Global Advance: https://globaladvance.org/ Global Advance podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/channel/global-advance-podcasts/id6445826567 Ministry Transitions: https://ministrytransitions.com/ Music licensed through Soundstripe. Code: VYIFKMHAUOEXDSYY, 7CAPUD6JEYLZ3YBI

    How Father-Son Ministry Succession Works (featuring Jonathan & David Shibley)

  3. Oct 13

    Lessons From 100 Ministry Transitions Stories (featuring the Ministry Transitions Team)

    The church has a plan for who’s preaching next Sunday. Who’s checking on the pastor’s family on Monday? For episode 100, our team at Ministry Transitions - Bill Tom, Matt Davis, Noe Rivera, and Ron Henry - talk about what has surprised us, what still breaks our hearts, and why we keep hearing, “I wish we’d found you sooner.” Today, we get to talk with people who are asking “What now?” and “What’s next?” We also help the boards and leaders making hard decisions that will affect a family long after the announcement is over. We talk about caring for spouses and kids, the humility to ask for help, and the moments when somebody begins to see a future again.  After 100 episodes, we believe more strongly than ever that the church should know how to say goodbye without destroying people. Key Takeaways A leader’s transition affects their spouse, children, and the wider community. Care for the family needs to be part of the plan.Boards need clear responsibilities and preparation before a difficult decision puts those gaps on display.Humility and coachability give leaders room to receive help and consider what comes next.Losing a ministry role can shake your identity. Relationships, meaningful work, and simple moments of joy can help you see beyond that loss.Old wounds deserve care, too. You can ask for help even when the transition happened years ago.Chapter Markers 00:00 – The hole jumper and why we started 10:34 – What surprised us about this work 22:34 – Humility, hope, and life beyond a role 30:08 – What boards and families need during transition 43:34 – Hard goodbyes, old wounds, and a way forward Resources Facing a transition or helping someone through one? Visit ministrytransitions.com to start a confidential conversation. To help provide care for a ministry leader who can’t afford it or lacks support, visit the website to make a donation. Music licensed through Soundstripe. Code: 2X6MMWEBTOGAQHGO, 3QGZO2HS60LMBN9B

    Lessons From 100 Ministry Transitions Stories (featuring the Ministry Transitions Team)

  4. Oct 6

    Succession Planning for the Ministry You Love (featuring Robin Fuller)

    Why is it so hard to let go of a ministry you love before something forces the decision?  Robin Fuller knows firsthand. After more than 23 years in pregnancy center ministry, she burned out and heard that only about 10 percent of ministry leaders finish well. She decided to be part of that 10 percent. Robin lifted the mantle off her shoulders in front of her board and walked through a four-year succession plan that started with a simple "Things I Do" document. Matt and Robin talk about why founders struggle most, how a poverty mindset keeps leaders in the seat too long, and why outgoing leaders need to step away for at least six months. Robin also shares her new book, Finish Well: Succession Planning for the Ministry You Love. Key Takeaways1. Succession starts long before you leave. Robin spent four years working with her board so the ministry could continue without a blip. 2. Write down what you actually do. A simple "Things I Do" list shows what to release, what to delegate, and what the next leader will need. 3. Know what will be missing when you are gone. Robin knew finances were not her gift, so she looked for a successor who was strong where she was not. 4. Pay and plan for your people. Fair pay and retirement planning keep leaders from staying too long just because they cannot afford to leave. 5. Give your successor room. Robin now encourages every outgoing leader to stay away for at least six months and to hand pride back to the Lord. Chapter Markers00:00 - Why Letting Go Is So Hard Robin's story, burnout, and why only about 10 percent of ministry leaders finish well. 06:58 - The "Things I Do" Document The simple list that showed Robin what to release and how to restructure her role. 12:10 - Why Leaders Stay Too Long Founders, the poverty mindset, and building a healthy compensation philosophy. 20:19 - Stepping Away Well The six-month rule, keeping staff through the handoff, and wrestling with pride. 27:30 - Finish Well: The Book Twelve practical steps for ministry leaders and boards, plus Robin's masterminds. ResourcesIf you are navigating a ministry transition, visit Ministry Transitions to explore resources or start a confidential conversation. Get Robin Fuller's book Finish Well: Succession Planning for the Ministry You Love and learn about her coaching and succession planning mastermind groups at robinfuller.coach. The book is also available on Amazon. Connect with Robin on Facebook and LinkedIn. Music licensed through Soundstripe. Code: XR91I6DXHFKRNMGI, UJMZ6VRYI26GYGRX

    Succession Planning for the Ministry You Love (featuring Robin Fuller)

  5. Sep 29

    Leaving a Gift Or a Legacy? (featuring Anthony Barton)

    Anthony Barton was a successful business owner when a trust attorney asked what his family mission statement was - not his business one. That question pushed him beyond leaving a gift toward building a legacy, and within 90 days he and his family were serving in Swaziland. Cancer later clarified the shift. Anthony sold his company, entered seminary, and now coaches Christian entrepreneurs through Convene. In this conversation he shares frameworks for pausing and pivoting, caring for people as image-bearers, and looking for God's providence in disruption. 6. KEY TAKEAWAYS 1. A gift and a legacy aren't the same thing. Anthony's trajectory changed when he began thinking about what his family could build together for God rather than simply what he could someday leave behind. 2. God can use disruption to clarify calling. Anthony describes cancer as brutal, but also as a season that brought unusual clarity about where his life needed to go next. 3. You cannot pivot well if you never pause. Healthy leaders and organizations stop long enough to evaluate what is happening before they change direction. 4. People are not resources. Christian leadership should see people as individuals made in the image of God, not simply inputs for organizational productivity. 5. Providence may be the most important P. In business, ministry, transition, and suffering, Anthony keeps returning to one question: Where is God's providence in all that we do? 7. CHAPTER MARKERS 00:00 - Welcome Anthony Barton Matt introduces Anthony and begins with the major turning point in 2013. 00:47 - Gift or Legacy? A trust attorney asks Anthony a question that changes how he thinks about what he will leave his family. 07:59 - The Next Disruption: Cancer A cancer diagnosis reshapes Anthony's understanding of life, calling, and what he wants to build. 13:15 - Protect, Pause, and Pivot Anthony shares leadership priorities beyond profit and productivity, including pause and pivot. 23:17 - The Eight F's Diagnostic Anthony introduces a simple framework for understanding the people you lead beyond what they produce. 8. RESOURCES If you’re navigating a ministry transition, visit Ministry Transitions to explore resources or start a confidential conversation. To learn more about Anthony Barton and his work with Christian business leaders, visit Anthony Barton at Convene. You can also explore Convene. Resources: Ministry Transitions Anthony Barton at Convene Convene

    Leaving a Gift Or a Legacy? (featuring Anthony Barton)

  6. Sep 22

    Leading Through the Trust Jungle (featuring Rob McKenna)

    What happens when trust breaks inside a church, nonprofit, or leadership team? Dr. Rob McKenna explains why trust is more than a feeling, how leaders can rebuild it after failure, and why succession is really the transfer of trust. This conversation explores emotional maturity, candor, vulnerability, blind spots, competence, reliability, and the three questions every team member is asking: Do I matter? Are you telling me the truth? Do I belong here? Key TakeawaysTrust has identifiable drivers, including candor, competence, reliability, emotional maturity, and concern for others.Nearly half of employees experience their workplace as a “jungle of trust.”Competence matters, but competence alone does not make someone a trusted leader.Rebuilding trust requires responsibility, self-awareness, grace, and continual repair.Succession is more than transferring a role; it is transferring trust into a team and organizational culture.Leaders must create conditions where people can tell the truth and receive difficult feedback.Every team member is asking: Do I matter? Are you telling me the truth? Do I belong here?Chapter Markers00:00 – Succession as the transfer of trust 01:23 – Introducing Dr. Rob McKenna 02:15 – Why trust is difficult in ministry and nonprofit organizations 06:04 – The State of Trust at Work 08:34 – Signs that trust is missing 10:25 – Why competence alone is not enough 14:19 – What it means to be a whole leader 18:00 – Handling difficult conversations during transition 20:00 – Succession and the transfer of trust 24:51 – How leaders rebuild trust after failure 28:34 – Blind spots and meaningful change 32:44 – What individuals can do in a jungle of trust 35:57 – How organizations can begin rebuilding trust 39:00 – Closing thoughts and resources Visit MinistryTransitions.com if a leadership transition is exposing cracks in trust. To learn more about Dr. Rob McKenna’s work, Whole Leaders, Wild Trust, and WiLD Leaders’ tools, visit wildleaders.org.

    Leading Through the Trust Jungle (featuring Rob McKenna)

  7. Jul 21

    Holding Gratitude & Grief (featuring Dennis Atwood)

    Most ministry leaders expect to decide when they step away. Dennis Atwood never had that opportunity. After serving churches for nearly three decades, Dennis was diagnosed with early-onset Parkinson's disease. He quietly carried the diagnosis for years before the progression of the disease forced him to step away from the pastorate he loved.  In this deeply honest conversation, Dennis reflects on grief, identity, suffering, and why choosing gratitude isn't about denying pain but discovering God's faithfulness in the middle of it. Key TakeawaysUnexpected health challenges can reshape both ministry and identity.Grief is a natural part of leaving a calling you deeply love.Gratitude isn't the absence of suffering but a response to God's faithfulness within it.Ministry leaders need purpose beyond the title they hold.God often brings deep spiritual formation through seasons we would never choose.Chapter Markers00:00 Dennis' pastoral journey and ministry background 01:45 An early Parkinson's diagnosis changes everything 03:30 Why Dennis kept his diagnosis private for years 07:45 Telling the church and preparing for transition 11:00 Missing ministry more than expected 13:15 Becoming a caregiver and navigating family transition 14:30 Holy discontent and living with purpose 16:20 Choosing gratitude through suffering 20:00 The dark night of the soul and spiritual formation 25:30 Encouragement for leaders whose ministry ended unexpectedly If you're facing a ministry transition or unexpected life change, start a conversation with a specialist at Ministry Transitions. Learn more about Dennis and his book Choosing Gratitude at Market Square Books.

    Holding Gratitude & Grief (featuring Dennis Atwood)

  8. Jul 14

    When Home Becomes the Mission Field (featuring Nate & Brittany Bruns)

    Missionaries spend years preparing to go to the field, but few are prepared for what it feels like to come home. After serving six years in Germany, Nate and Brittany Bruns share the unexpected challenges of returning to the United States, navigating reverse culture shock, raising third-culture kids, and rebuilding community. Ultimately, they discovered God was calling them to live as missionaries in their own country.  Their story offers practical encouragement for missionaries, churches, and anyone walking through an unexpected ministry transition. Key TakeawaysReverse culture shock can be more difficult than moving overseas.Missionary transitions affect spouses, children, and the entire family.God often prepares leaders for future seasons long before they understand why.Returning missionaries bring valuable wisdom that can strengthen the local church.Waiting on God is an active posture of trust, not passive inactivity.Chapter Markers00:00 Job loss, the desert season, and God's unexpected call to Germany 04:30 Reaching a post-Christian culture through relationships 07:15 When God said it was time to come home 11:15 Reverse culture shock and becoming strangers in your own country 16:00 Helping third-culture kids navigate transition 20:15 How churches can better care for returning missionaries 23:30 What America can learn from post-Christian Europe 26:45 Financial transitions and rebuilding support 30:00 Waiting on God and discerning what's next 34:00 The Bruns Tribe and engaging the spiritually disengaged 36:30 Encouragement for missionaries in transition If you're navigating a ministry transition, we'd love to help. Start a conversation with a specialist at Ministry Transitions. Learn more about Nate and Brittany's ministry at The Bruns Tribe.

    When Home Becomes the Mission Field (featuring Nate & Brittany Bruns)
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About

Many of us have experienced the sting of losing a job. But there’s something uniquely challenging about leaving a position in full-time vocational ministry. Whether you’re stepping down from a church or leaving a Christian nonprofit, it’s not as simple as just changing jobs. Suddenly, everything changes. You’re left navigating not just a career transition, but also a profound shift in identity, community, and daily routines. It feels like stepping into an unknown, filled with questions like, ”What now? What’s next? How do I redefine myself outside the ministry? How do I maintain my faith amidst this transition?” Welcome to the Life After Ministry Podcast. We’ve been there, navigating the complex journey from vocational ministry to a new chapter in our lives. We’ll explore stories of transformation, hear from those who’ve walked this path before, and provide practical strategies to turn your transition into transformation.

Information

  • Creator
    Matt Davis
  • Years Active
    2023 - 2026
  • Episodes
    103
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2026 Matt Davis
  • Show Website
    Life After Ministry

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