Life After Ministry

Matt & Marilee Davis
  • 5.0 (17)
  • CHRISTIANITY
  • UPDATED SEMIWEEKLY

Many of us have experienced the sting of losing a job. But there’s something uniquely challenging about leaving a position in full-time vocational ministry. Whether you’re stepping down from a church or leaving a kingdom nonprofit, it’s not as simple as just changing jobs. Suddenly, everything changes. You’re left navigating not just a career transition, but also a profound shift in identity, community, and daily routines. It feels like stepping into an unknown, filled with questions like, ”What’s next? How do I redefine myself outside the ministry? How do I maintain my faith amidst this transition?” Welcome to the Life After Ministry Podcast. We’ve been there, navigating the complex journey from vocational ministry to a new chapter in our lives. We’ll explore stories of transformation, hear from those who’ve walked this path before, and provide practical strategies to turn your transition into transformation.

  1. FEB 17

    Leaving Without Losing Continuity (featuring Chuck Proudfit)

    What if the biggest lie Christian leaders believe is that ministry only happens inside church walls? When pastors and nonprofit leaders transition into the marketplace, many feel like they’ve stepped out of calling and into something lesser. But that assumption may be the very thing limiting the Church’s influence. In this episode, we talk with Chuck Proudfit about faith at work, succession challenges, leadership continuity, and why Christians must rethink the sacred-secular divide.  This conversation reframes work as worship and challenges leaders to build legacy that outlives them. Key Takeaways Work is not secular space. It is strategic deployment. The sacred-secular divide quietly undermines Christian leadership. Most succession failures begin long before the transition announcement. Boards must proactively ask leaders about their 10-year vision. Continuity requires infrastructure, not just inspiration. Community shapes faith at work more effectively than content alone. Leadership legacy must include both personal and organizational clarity. Chapter Markers 00:00 – Introduction and Chuck’s faith journey 03:15 – Work as worship and the sacred-secular divide 06:44 – Faith in consulting and marketplace leadership 07:33 – Why church transitions struggle 10:13 – Organic ministry in the workplace 13:30 – The birth of At Work On Purpose 16:44 – Spiritual formation through work 19:05 – The Faith at Work Summit and future frontiers 20:43 – Continuity, succession, and leadership legacy 25:15 – Invitation to the Summit If you are navigating a leadership transition, preparing for succession, or reimagining how faith integrates with your everyday work, take your next step today. Visit https://ministrytransitions.com to schedule a confidential conversation about your transition, explore how faith and work come together at https://atworkonpurpose.org/, and learn more about the global Faith at Work Summit at https://faithatworksummit2026.com/. Whether you are leaving vocational ministry, leading through change, or building what comes next, you do not have to do it alone.

    29 min

  2. FEB 10

    The Wilderness Is Not a Detour (featuring Dustin Kleinschmidt)

    Most ministry leaders expect relief after stepping away. What they don’t expect is the wilderness to begin after the resignation. In this honest conversation, Dustin Kleinschmidt shares how years of crisis leadership, misaligned values, and unresolved grief led to burnout, anxiety, and a deep reckoning with faith.  Rather than rushing toward resolution, Dustin invites leaders to reconsider what the wilderness is actually for. This episode reframes suffering, challenges Christian shortcuts around pain, and offers language for leaders who feel stuck between obedience and disappointment.  If you’ve ever wondered whether you missed God or why healing is taking so long, this conversation meets you right where you are. Key Takeaways Burnout is often the result of long-term erosion, not one failure Healthy systems can’t sustain you in an unhealthy environment The wilderness often begins after the role ends Spiritual bypassing keeps leaders disconnected from their real pain Value misalignment creates invisible but constant friction Healing doesn’t mean closure or clarity God’s presence in the wilderness matters more than getting out of it Chapter Markers 00:00 – Dustin’s ministry journey and early formation 03:30 – Crisis leadership and long-term erosion 06:20 – When sustainability quietly disappears 09:30 – Why good systems still fail in toxic environments 11:20 – Entering the wilderness after resignation 15:20 – Spiritual bypassing and emotional honesty 18:30 – The Exodus, expectations, and disappointment with God 24:00 – Living faithfully without resolution 28:15 – The Wilderness Way: book, workbook, and music If you’re in the wilderness and looking for faithful companions along the way, explore The Wilderness Way and Ministry Transitions. Together, they offer resources to help you live honestly with God in hard seasons and engage Scripture with deeper historical and spiritual clarity. Learn more at https://www.dustinkleinschmidt.com and https://thejewishroad.com.

    43 min

  3. FEB 3

    The Transition I Planned...The Transition I Got (featuring Jim West)

    Stepping away from leadership is rarely just a strategic decision. It’s personal. Emotional. Spiritual. Especially for founders and long-term leaders who have poured their lives into a ministry. In this episode, Jim West reflects on what it meant to hand off leadership of the Barnabas Group, a ministry he helped build and lead for over two decades.  Just weeks after that transition, Jim was diagnosed with cancer, forcing him into a season of surrender he never planned. This conversation explores succession, identity, grief, and trust. It’s an honest look at what happens when God asks you to release what you love, and how unexpected seasons can become some of the most formative and meaningful of your life. Key Takeaways Succession is not an emergency plan. It’s a discipleship issue. Founders often grieve more than they expect when they step away. A ministry continuing without you can be a sign of health, not failure. Forced stillness can protect both leaders and organizations. Identity untethered from role allows for deeper trust in God. Life after ministry can be fuller, not smaller. Transitions require guides, not just decisions. Chapter Markers 00:00 – Jim’s path into the Barnabas Group 03:30 – Recognizing the need for succession 05:20 – Passing the baton and receiving a cancer diagnosis 07:40 – Watching the ministry grow without him 11:50 – Faith, cancer, and spiritual clarity 16:00 – Discovering life and ministry after leadership 27:10 – Advice for leaders facing transition If you or your organization are facing a leadership transition, visit ministrytransitions.com to book a confidential conversation and get support that protects people, preserves purpose, and plans wisely for what’s next.

    31 min

  4. 12/31/2025

    The Year-End Transition Checklist

    Most ministry transitions don’t happen suddenly. They happen slowly, quietly, and later than they should.  In this season-ending episode, we reflect on the patterns Ministry Transitions has seen over the past year while walking with pastors, boards, nonprofits, and faith-driven organizations. From delayed conversations to the quiet crisis of succession, this episode names the realities leaders often feel but rarely say out loud.  It’s an honest look at why transitions feel so heavy, why waiting makes them harder, and how support can change the outcome entirely. This is not a forecast for what’s next. It’s a grounded invitation to name what’s already here and walk through it with wisdom, care, and courage. Key Takeaways Most transitions happen later than they should, not because of neglect but misplaced protection Waiting does not make transitions easier. It makes them more expensive Succession planning is about stewardship, not replacement Ministry transitions extend far beyond the church into nonprofits and faith-driven organizations Many leaders engage support only after the ending has already occurred Leaders are often relieved, not resistant, when care is offered Support consistently changes outcomes for leaders and organizations Chapter Markers 00:00 – When transition feels unfinished 05:20 – Why transitions are happening too late 11:10 – Succession as a silent crisis 17:30 – Ministry beyond the church walls 23:45 – Why people listen quietly 29:10 – What happens when leaders are offered support 35:40 – Why support changes outcomes If you’re in a transition, leading others through one, or want to help someone who didn’t see this coming, visit MinistryTransitions.com to book a confidential call, explore resources, or give toward supporting a leader in transition. You don’t have to walk this alone.

    14 min

  5. 12/02/2025

    When Time Becomes Our Boss (featuring Andrew Hartman)

    At some point in ministry, we start confusing busyness for faithfulness. We tell ourselves that exhaustion is just the cost of obedience - that being needed, stretched thin, and constantly available somehow means we’re doing it right.  But deep down, we know something’s wrong. In this episode of Life After Ministry, Matt Davis sits down with his longtime friend Andrew Hartman to talk about what happens when time becomes our boss. Andrew shares how his own burnout - marked by real physical breakdown - became the turning point that changed his relationship with time and work forever. This isn’t a conversation about calendars or to-do lists. It’s about trust, limits, and the grace of learning how to stop before it’s too late. For anyone in ministry who’s running on empty, this one might be preventative - so you never have to live life after ministry. Key Takeaways Being busy for God is not the same as being faithful to Him. Stress isn’t proof of calling; it’s often a signal of fear or misplaced trust. Burnout is your body’s declaration of bankruptcy - an invitation to reorganize your life. Ministry culture often rewards overwork, but Jesus modeled a rhythm of rest and presence. True stewardship includes managing time as a sacred resource, not an endless debt. Building trust with time begins by creating small, consistent commitment plans. You don’t have to burn out to be fruitful. The work of God is sustained by the peace of God. Chapter Markers 00:00 – Matt and Andrew reconnect after 20 years 01:43 – When “busy for God” became burnout 05:18 – The body declares bankruptcy on stress 07:03 – Solving the time problem 09:21 – Is burnout a failure or a signal? 13:52 – Fear, faith, and our emotional relationship with time 17:24 – How “commitment plans” build peace 19:10 – Leading others in stewardship of time 23:48 – What life looks like on the other side of burnout 26:33 – Teams that heal their pace together Learn more, donate, or schedule a confidential transition call at MinistryTransitions.com Explore Andrew Hartman’s resources - free masterclass, coaching, and tools - at TimeBoss.us

    30 min

  6. 11/25/2025

    Leaving Before You See What's Next (featuring Brad Gray & Brad Nelson)

    Most pastors imagine ministry as a lifelong calling, until something shifts - slowly, painfully, or all at once.  In this episode, Brad Gray and Brad Nelson share their unfiltered stories of leaving pastoral ministry, wrestling through uncertainty, and discovering the faithful presence of God in seasons where nothing made sense.  Their journeys reveal how transitions can expose hidden wounds, force honest discernment, and ultimately reshape our understanding of calling. From uprooting a thriving teaching pastor role with no job on the other side, to the quiet unraveling that nearly cost a marriage, both men walk through the tension, grief, and surprising grace that comes when God invites you into a future you can’t yet see.  And at the center of their healing is a rediscovery of the Lord’s Prayer - not as a childhood memory, but as a daily blueprint for partnering with God. This conversation is hope for the discouraged, a mirror for the exhausted, and a companion for anyone wondering whether there is life after ministry. There is. And it might be more expansive than you expect. Key Takeaways How God can initiate a transition long before you understand it. Why community and spiritual friends are essential during vocational upheaval. What happens when the pain of staying becomes greater than the fear of leaving. How unaddressed wounds from ministry begin to surface during transitions. Why the Lord’s Prayer is a daily blueprint for grounding, clarity, and direction. The difference between assignment and calling in a leader’s life. How God works slowly, quietly, and faithfully in seasons that feel stalled. Chapter Markers 00:00 – Introductions and the two Brads 01:10 – Brad Gray’s unexpected call away from a thriving church 03:45 – Moving to Nashville without a plan 07:00 – Brad Nelson’s painful exit from church planting 09:35 – How ministries unravel marriages and identities 12:30 – Discernment, tension, and the pivot point 14:30 – When pain forces change 20:00 – The Lord’s Prayer as a blueprint for life 25:43 – Kingdom, calling, and partnering with God 29:09 – The making of the film and book 33:06 – How churches can use the new resources 38:30 – What they would say to their former selves 42:49 – Is there life after ministry? 43:40 – Final thoughts and blessing Your story is not over. In fact, this may be the first time in years that God finally has the space to show you who you are beyond what you do. If you’re navigating a transition, facing a forced resignation, preparing for succession, or simply unraveling quietly under the weight of ministry, reach out. You don’t have to make these decisions alone. Visit https://ministrytransitions.com to schedule a confidential conversation or to give toward a leader who is carrying more than they can name. And if you want to explore the formative power of the Lord’s Prayer as a companion in this season, engage the resources at https://thelordsprayer.com. They offer a film, a forthcoming episodic series, and a new book designed to walk with you as God leads you into what’s next. There is life after ministry. And God is already in the future preparing it for you.

    47 min

  7. 11/18/2025

    The Fourth-Quarter Question (featuring Dr. Nathan Baxter)

    Dr. Nathan Baxter loved ten hours of his job. Those one-on-ones with staff fueled him. The rest slowly emptied him. Naming that truth started a two-year journey out of a role he’d held for decades. He didn’t abandon ministry. He changed vehicles so his calling could breathe again. In this conversation Nathan walks through a practical runway. He set a modest income target, built a small savings cushion, and launched a coaching practice with a pastor’s heart. He also shares the moment his elders asked him to leave sooner than planned and chose surprising generosity, a gift that humbled him more than any pain. Now coaching CEOs and pastors alike, Nathan talks finishing well, clarifying a “particular purpose,” and the three anchors every leader over 50 needs: margin, influence, and hyper-intentional living.  If transition feels like free fall, this episode will help you steady your soul and take the next right step. Key Takeaways Honest work audits can reveal misaligned roles without shaming your calling. A two-year discernment window can hold fear, finances, and family well. Build a simple runway: clear income target and small savings cushion. Generosity in transition can reframe pain and deepen humility. You can keep a pastoral identity while changing employers. Finishing well rests on margin, influence, and intentional living. Purpose is discovered over time. Let the desert do its work. Chapter Markers 00:00 Welcome and background 02:20 When the job isn’t the joy anymore 04:55 Two-year wrestle and first paid coaching moment 08:24 Elders, early exit, unexpected generosity 10:14 Building a practical runway and budget targets 12:16 Why “Lead Self, Lead Others” 16:02 Defining finishing well in the fourth quarter 18:18 Retiring the fee, keeping the call at 68 20:07 Purpose unfolds slowly, not suddenly 24:42 Margin, influence, and hyper-intentional life 27:30 Why pastors make great coaches 30:01 CEOs and pastors face the same pressures 31:38 Wisdom to a next-gen pastor son 34:03 Where to find Nathan’s work Before you make the next move, make the wise one. Visit ministrytransitions.com to schedule a confidential call, get transition tools for your board or staff, or give to help another leader walk through theirs with dignity. To learn more about how pastors can become powerful leadership coaches, visit leadselfleadothers.com or realcoachingsuccess.com. You’ll find tools to help you clarify calling, build a coaching rhythm, and multiply your impact beyond the church walls.

    37 min

  8. 11/11/2025

    Real-Time Grace at the Speed of Jesus (featuring Duncan Robinson)

    When the role that once fit like a second skin begins to suffocate, what do you do? For Duncan Robinson, it meant stepping away. No scandal. No collapse. Just honesty and courage to say, “I need to sit down and be fed.” That decision took him from church staff to radio hosting, from the pulpit to row three, and eventually back into ministry with a new clarity.  Along the way, he discovered how to face failure without fear, how to detach identity from role, and why bi-vocational rhythms might be the healthiest way forward for pastors. If you’re navigating transition - or helping someone who is - this conversation offers language and hope for what comes next. Key Takeaways  Identity is received in Christ, not earned by a role Failure roars like a lion but shrinks when faced Grace isn’t tidy - it meets you in real time Bi-vocational ministry mirrors the lives of congregants Pastoral skills translate beyond the pulpit Churches can pilot one day of outside work for healthier staff The wilderness is where God grows clarity and love Chapter Markers 00:00 Welcome and setup 05:15 From Phoenix growth to Australian valley 08:30 Radio hosting and a father’s death 10:56 Untangling identity from role 15:45 A year of silence and being fed 21:05 What “pastor” really means 24:50 Transferable skills pastors overlook 29:20 Why bi-vocational makes sense 40:10 Real-time grace at the speed of Jesus 45:10 Closing If you’re a pastor or ministry leader facing transition - or walking with someone who is - you don’t have to do it alone. Visit ministrytransitions.com to explore coaching, confidential conversations, and resources designed to help you protect people, preserve purpose, and plan what’s next with wisdom and grace. To connect with Duncan Robinson, visit DuncanRobinson.net for links to his projects, speaking, and his book Full Phoenix Rising: Real-Time Grace at the Speed of Jesus - a raw and redemptive look at failure, faith, and finding your way back when everything falls apart. You can also find Full Phoenix Rising on Amazon, Target, Walmart, and other major retailers. If this conversation encouraged you, share the episode with a friend who might need to hear that stepping out of ministry doesn’t mean stepping out of God’s calling - it might just mean walking it out differently.

    48 min
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About

Many of us have experienced the sting of losing a job. But there’s something uniquely challenging about leaving a position in full-time vocational ministry. Whether you’re stepping down from a church or leaving a kingdom nonprofit, it’s not as simple as just changing jobs. Suddenly, everything changes. You’re left navigating not just a career transition, but also a profound shift in identity, community, and daily routines. It feels like stepping into an unknown, filled with questions like, ”What’s next? How do I redefine myself outside the ministry? How do I maintain my faith amidst this transition?” Welcome to the Life After Ministry Podcast. We’ve been there, navigating the complex journey from vocational ministry to a new chapter in our lives. We’ll explore stories of transformation, hear from those who’ve walked this path before, and provide practical strategies to turn your transition into transformation.

Information

  • Creator
    Matt & Marilee Davis
  • Years Active
    2023 - 2026
  • Episodes
    78
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © Copyright 2023 All rights reserved.
  • Show Website
    Life After Ministry

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