From Learning Consumers to Producers What if the most important things schools teach, agency, collaboration, ethical judgment, are precisely the things we never measure? And what does it say about our priorities that we grade algebra to two decimal places but can't reliably say whether a student can collaborate? My guest this week is Ellen Heyting, Senior Research Fellow at Melbourne Metrics within the Faculty of Education at the University of Melbourne. Ellen has spent over a decade teaching and leading in IB World Schools across Melbourne, Beijing, Singapore, and Helsinki, and holds a PhD in education from Monash University, where she studied belonging and its role in advancing learning for marginalized students. Today she works on one of education's hardest problems: building valid, reliable ways to measure the competencies that sit outside traditional exams. In this conversation, we cover: Why measurement is the lever: Ellen argues assessment reform returns "the biggest bang for the buck" in education transformation, even though it's the topic least likely to excite teachers Agency in learning: "the capacity to produce your own learning of value to yourself or community" — and why she calls it the queen of the competencies ("one ring to rule them all") The shift from consumers to producers: moving students from learning consumers to producing their own learning The confidence vs. competence trap: teachers are highly confident in judging skills like collaboration. The research says they get it wrong a lot How new assessment actually works: authentic situations, structured judgments, and the practical machinery Melbourne Metrics has built with schools worldwide The human side of change — the tough ask for educators who've succeeded in an exam-based system for 10, 20, or 30 years The groundwork is done — schools don't have to invent this alone; the University of Melbourne is actively partnering with schools to implement it This conversation pairs well with my recent episode with Kasson Bratton, who introduced me to Ellen — listen to both for the full picture of what measuring the whole student looks like in practice. EIP is now one of the top education podcasts in Asia and features conversations with educators, students, founders, and innovators from all over the world who are reimagining how we teach and learn. Host Eric Byron explores practical ideas and real-world examples from schools, startups, and learning environments — from AI in the classroom to project-based learning, student voice, and the future of assessment. If you care about where education is heading, this is your show. Links: Ellen Heyting: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ellen-heyting-phd-ab558a280/ Melbourne Metrics: https://education.unimelb.edu.au/melbourne-metrics The Education Innovators Podcast Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61551034804742 The Education Innovators Podcast YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLru4kYugzLerU1S8mQu2Jo2-jX6H_3kd3 This podcast is produced entirely by Eric Byron. You can contact Eric at eric@edinnovationpod.com
