This week on Trades Talk, Justin White sits down with Cameron Herold, founder of the COO Alliance and one of the most respected voices in operational scaling. Cameron spent 6.5 years as COO of 1-800-GOT-JUNK, scaling the company from $2 million to $106 million alongside his best friend Brian Scudamore. He has since built the COO Alliance to 175 members, written 7 business books (Vivid Vision, Double Double, The Second in Command, Meetings Suck, Free PR, Grandma's Business Secrets, and more), and been paid to speak in 30 countries. This conversation is a masterclass on how to actually scale a service business, and Cameron pulls no punches. From his four-step "kill, optimize, automate, outsource" framework to why your A players are never applying to your job posts, this is the operator's operator sharing his full playbook. In this episode: Minimum Viable Everything (MVE): the framework Cameron coined that flips the script on optimization. Kill it first. Optimize it second. Automate it third. Outsource it last. And a lot of what you are working on right now does not need to happen at all Why your A players are never applying to your job posts: A players already have jobs and are crushing it. The only way to hire them is to poach them, and the only way to poach them is to build a company culture that other operators talk about. Cameron's basketball gym story is the tactical playbook Employee NPS as the #1 KPI: how Cameron ran 1-800-GOT-JUNK on Employee Net Promoter Score as the leading indicator of everything else (customer happiness, revenue, retention, referrals), and why perks make things worse The CEO / COO relationship as a marriage: Cameron's framework for how the two most important leaders in the company should operate together, including the Football Team analogy, the "happy house happy spouse" principle, and the skip-level meeting system Cameron learned from a Starbucks mentor Systems fail, not people: the perfect-system thesis using Cameron's speed governor analogy, plus a live coaching moment where Cameron challenges Justin to build a Claude agent that replaces the CPO shadowing every interview at K&D Cameron closes with the most unexpected trade secret we have captured on the show: none of this matters. We are all doing this on the time we have left on the planet to pay the bills. Family, hobbies, relationships, health, self. Those are the reasons you wake up in the morning, not the business. The death rate is still 100 percent. Enjoy the journey. If you are a trades CEO who has never had formal interviewing training, a founder wondering why your team feels overworked despite adding perks, or an operator who has never truly given your COO the space to run the company, this one is required listening. JW Group Website: https://www.jwhitegroup.com/ Justin LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-white-%E2%98%85-35b7a210b/ Justin Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/justinwhiteceo/ Justins Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@justinwhiteceo Cameron LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cameronherold/ Cameron Herold Website: https://cameronherold.com/ COO Alliance: https://www.cooalliance.com/ K&D Website: https://kndlandscaping.com/ K&D Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kanddlandscaping/ Disruptors Community: https://www.skool.com/disruptors Disruptors Advantage Newsletter: https://disruptors-advantage.beehiiv.com/
