How did you write that song?

Paul Marsh
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Not only rock stars write songs. Lots of people with busy lives do it. In this podcast I'll have discussions with people who write songs about how they do it, why they do it and the things songwriting has done for them. In each episode we'll discuss and play an original song by the featured songwriter and get right down into how that song came to be. Relevant resources and links to things we've discussed will be included in the episode notes. If you write songs, or would like to write songs but haven't started yet, this podcast could be for you. Look forward to connecting with you, Paul.

  1. 04/30/2025

    How did you write that song DJ Gosper and Jeff Prime?

    Canberra songwriters Dorothy Jane (DJ) Gosper and Jeff Prime have been doing their stuff for many years in many different genres across the blues, jazz, rock and folk spectrum. It was great to catch up with them and hear some of their songwriting insights from their many years experience of working on songs both individually and collectively. DJ is a little reluctant to be too analytical about songwriting as, in her words, "it seems sort of magical". She started composing songs from poems as a young person and soon realised she doesn't have just one approach to writing songs. Driving her car seems to be a place where lyrical or musical ideas come to her. Once she gets an initial idea the song builds around it, sometimes very quickly and other times much more slowly. Jeff has an interesting approach. As a songwriter who doesn't sing himself he writes the instrumental parts and gets his music software to sing the words he comes up with and then shares the results with DJ as she'll be singing the song once it is finished. For him a mood or sentiment in a guitar riff will often lead to lyrics later on. We played recordings of a couple of their songs during our chat. The first, "Moving On", was written by Jeff and is about recognising when it is time to move on from a relationship or other life experience. The other song, "On My Own" was written by DJ and tells the story of how she was affected by and then came to accept something extraordinary and traumatic in her life. It's a powerful song and also demonstrates how important songwriting can be. For more of DJ and Jeff's music: https://dorothy-jane.com/jd_band

    36 min

  2. 04/04/2025

    How did you write that song Shark and Fox?

    Shark & Fox consists of Jaron Freeman-Fox on violin, 12-string viola d’amor and fretless guitar, Emily-Rose Sharkova on accordion and keyboards, and Rose Callaghan on the drums, with all three members lending their voices in a collective roar, or intricate harmony. Their music ranges from crazy up-tempo Eastern European folk with unusual time signatures through to floating atmospheric wonder that will stop you in your tracks. So I was very fortunate when Emily-Rose, Jaron and Rose stopped by for a chat on their way to a gig in Canberra. We discussed how they've all become amazing instrumentalists through their lives but coming together recently as Shark and Fox has led them more to focus on songwriting and thinking of themselves as songwriters. It was clear from our chat that they really gel with each other musically, listening and learning from each other as they collaborate on their songs. Wanting to work with each other is key, as is working out the reason for a song to be written. Everything else follows. We played a recording of their single "Let Your Loved Ones Know" which is about making sure that important conversations with your important people do happen. It was great to chat with them and if you want to hear more from Shark and Fox: https://sharkandfox.com/

    26 min

  3. 02/27/2025

    How did you write that song Broken Creek?

    I was lucky enough to catch up with Erin and Lachlan from Victorian folk duo Broken Creek when they were briefly in Canberra for a gig. They've got a great complementary approach to songwriting - Erin writes the lyrics and Lachlan writes the music..... well it's not quite that straightforward! Erin's crafting of the lyrics suggests melody and rhythm ideas and Lachlan's instrumental skills inspire song ideas. Lachlan also digs right into the subject matter of songs and produces pages of research about the subject of a song and Erin filters the essence of the story into the song. We discussed and played a recording of a wonderful song they wrote in this iterative way about the convict Mary Bryant who was transported with the first fleet and then led the first successful escape from the colony at Port Jackson..... in Governor Philip's stolen fishing boat! Many of their songs tell the story of inspirational women from history who rarely have their stories told in the history books. They are both impressive musicians and songwriters in their own right but together that synergy thing is working overtime! I hope you enjoy listening to this episode as much as I did recording it! To hear more of Erin and Lachlan's music: https://www.brokencreekband.com/

    30 min

  4. 11/28/2024

    How did you write that song Chris Johnson?

    Chris Johnson is a long time songwriter and lover of guitars. He came to the studio for a chat with his custom-made acoustic guitar built from exclusively Australian timber that he once wrote a book about! Chris has been writing songs since he was in primary school in Brisbane and has always been keen to perform his songs for others. It usually takes an idea to kick off the songwriting process and then he usually develops lyrics and music at the same time. Chris likes to tell a story through his songs but keep the music simple. We discussed Chris's song "Seven Seas" written at a time when his family was away for an extended period and he was missing his daughter. As he wrote the song it morphed into a broader idea about missing people and he finds that people he performs it to often can relate it to their own circumstances. Chris is constantly amazed by how audiences have a range of different interpretations of the meanings of his songs. Chris related the story of recording Seven Seas in the studio and how the contributing musicians added their own influences to the final mix. Chris played a wonderful solo acoustic version of Seven Seas in the studio which transported me to many far-away places! Songwriting has been a great friend to Chris and his advice to new songwriters - believe in yourself and give it a go! Also, when you get a musical or lyrical idea, write it down or it'll be lost! For more of Chris's music with his collaborator Artem Grigoriev in Canberra "outlaw country" duo Capo Creek: https://capocreek.bandcamp.com/album/running-out

    29 min

  5. 11/21/2024

    How did you write that song Dandelion Highway?

    I had a phone chat with Chris and Kayleigh from Canadian folk duo Dandelion Highway whilst they were sitting in their car on the Canadian side of Niagara Falls just before a gig in a vintage record store! They both love songwriting and have written songs independently for many years. Kayleigh who hails from Waterford in Ireland met Chris in Toronto through a shared love of Irish music, tea and puppies and they started writing songs together. They are quite complementary as songwriters with Chris often coming up with a riff that they repeat over and over until some of the lyrics Kayleigh has stashed in her lyric book fit the tune. they observe and interpret each other's work as they go back and forth to finish a song. We discussed their forthcoming single "We are Gold" which is a very positive story about maintaining a friendship after a relationship has ended and recognising the value that both people have brought to each others' lives. We played a recording of "We are Gold" and I could see them car dancing at the other end of the video call! Listening to it brought back memories for Chris and Kayleigh of recording the song and the way that their producer became part of the songwriting team. It was great to catch up with Chris and Kayleigh and to catch up with Dandelion Highway's music: https://dandelion-highway.com/

    27 min

  6. 11/14/2024

    How did you write that song Matt Holborow

    Matt Holborow writes songs and makes guitars! He approaches both in a similar way - learning by doing, trial and error and gradually gaining confidence. Matt has been known by friends and colleagues for a long time as a musician and someone who can change the lyrics of existing songs for a certain occasion. It's only in the past few years that Matt has taken the plunge and started writing his own original songs. He likes to allude to aspects of his life through songwriting but hide the specifics behind scraps of truth and fiction taken from other sources. Matt has separate "banks" of lyrics and Musical ideas which come together through a hard-to-pin-down process into songs. He's had the experience of writing a song in five minutes, taking years to write a song and everything in-between. Working with his band mates in "Box of Hammers" Matt has built his songwriting ability and now can imagine in his head the various parts of a song - guitars, bass, vocal harmonies etc. Matt played two songs live in the studio - "There's a Bear in There" and "Tradie Lady". Both songs have great stories attached and Matt points out that there is an autobiographical element in both songs and a lot of stuff he adapted or made up! Matt encourages new songwriters to take it slow, try things out, throw lots of things away and trust your instincts.

    42 min

  7. 11/07/2024

    How did you write that song James Fahy?

    I had the great fortune to chat about songwriting with legendary, and now Melbourne-based, singer/songwriter James Fahy when he was back in Canberra recently. For James, getting going with songwriting during his school and uni years empowered him at a time when things were difficult. He's never looked back! We talked about two phases of songwriting - the creative phase (very short and needs to be held onto as long as possible) and the editing phase (can go on for a long time!). James thinks a lot about his potential audience when he is songwriting and often imagines them sitting in the room with him whilst he is writing. He also is and has been strongly influenced by people he has co-written with including his former school mate, Ramsay, Joe Oppenheimer, Evan Buckley and others. Many of James's songs are about friends or real things that have happened but in order to protect the identity or feelings of individuals, including himself, James often combines several narrative thoughts into a single song. We spoke about the song "Northbourne", a song written 15 years ago about the road of the same name in Canberra. When James originally wrote the song, trying to bring together threads of his time in Canberra and people he knew, he wasn't very happy with the the result and put it "in the cupboard" for six months. Getting it out again, the songwriting "dough" had risen in the intervening months and gave James a new perspective on what he had written. At this point he realised that some of his Canberra music collaborators' styles were actually reflected in the song after all! He also reflected on how songs evolve over time - the Northbourne Avenue streetscape has changed a lot over the years! James discussed a stack of technical tips and tricks which help him with his songwriting and then played an acoustic version of Northbourne live in the studio which showcase a lot of these songwriting techniques. It was great to catch up with James and I think this episode is a goldmine for budding songwriters! For more about James's music: https://linktr.ee/jamesfahymusic?fbclid=IwY2xjawGZF_5leHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHbFLiiZWuXk2E5R_sDXxC9FWziaUqf3Qqvqj90VgrPTTdfrVYBxOXgiGnA_aem_s0DRsdAfjixecq-_mqGdVw https://www.facebook.com/jamesfahymusic/ https://soundcloud.com/jamesfahy

    41 min

  8. 10/31/2024

    How did you write that song Rachel Hore?

    Rachel Hore is a songwriter, a teacher and a choir leader who started writing songs in an a cappella group and got into writing folk songs (with instruments) much later. The strength of Rachel's voice skills and experience is clear in her songs but she says that she is so busy with her choral work these days that she doesn't have a lot of time for songwriting. Rachel feels very grateful to have met Australian songwriter Christina Olsen early in her career. Christina taught Rachel the craft of songwriting and encouraged her to be courageous and begin her own solo songwriting and performing ventures. We played a recording of "Angry Child" written at a time Rachel was holding down a day job teaching (blessed with a very supportive boss) whilst performing music all over the country. The song is about a very angry special needs student Rachel taught and eventually encouraged to write poetry to channel his anger. It's a beautiful song with a dark interior - full of beautiful harmonies and hopefulness. A big motivation for Rachel is sharing her songs with others and this has led to her passion for choral songwriting, teaching and performing and it has become her life's work. She founded the pop-up choir in Canberra which is open to any singer of any skill level or experience. She says she writes and arranges the choir's songs to be interesting enough and accessible enough so that anyone can participate in the choir. Anyone who has seen and heard a pop-up choir performance will know that they are stunningly good! Rachel uses her musical training to help with writing and arranging song melodies and harmonies but it still comes down to feel and instinct working with other choristers to develop songs. We also discussed "Winter Song" and "The Big Sing in the Desert", important songwriting festivals and workshops where Rachel works with participants to arrange and perform choral songs. The Big Sing in particular is a very special opportunity to work with indigenous singers from six central desert communities. Rachel recounted an experience where she went to the Big Sing with a two-line melody "I want to go back to that land. Bring me home" which came to her after seeing an exhibition of objects which had been taken from Country during colonial times. By the end of the workshop indigenous singers had translated the melody into three central desert languages and it had become an amazing whole song! The song continues to grow and has now been translated into several other languages by traditional singers. We played a recording of an amazing performance of the song at the Big Sing. Rachel's advice to other songwriters - hold on to that small idea - it might just grow into something amazing! For more about Rachel's choirs and music: https://rachelhore.com/

    43 min
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About

Not only rock stars write songs. Lots of people with busy lives do it. In this podcast I'll have discussions with people who write songs about how they do it, why they do it and the things songwriting has done for them. In each episode we'll discuss and play an original song by the featured songwriter and get right down into how that song came to be. Relevant resources and links to things we've discussed will be included in the episode notes. If you write songs, or would like to write songs but haven't started yet, this podcast could be for you. Look forward to connecting with you, Paul.

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