Tried and Tested Podcast

PSI Services

Welcome to PSI’s Tried and Tested Podcast, hosted by Isabelle Gonthier. Tune in every other Thursday for expert conversations on testing, credentialing, and assessment. Each episode explores industry trends, practical insights, and the real work behind high stakes testing, featuring leaders and practitioners shaping the future of the assessment industry.

  1. Aug 20

    Start Small, Build Trust, Scale Up: WPI’s Approach to AI in Credentialing

    In this episode of Tried and Tested, host Isabelle Gonthier, PhD, ICE-CCP speaks with Haley Vanness, CAE, ICE-CCP, CMP, AAiP, Vice President of Water Professionals International, about WPI’s journey toward building trust in AI adoption. Drawing on her work leading certification programs for water and wastewater professionals, Haley shares how WPI approached AI intentionally, starting with a practical use case that could support candidates, engage subject matter experts, and build confidence with the board and stakeholders. As credentialing organizations explore where AI can responsibly fit into program strategy, Haley explains why WPI began with practice exam development before expanding into broader operational opportunities. The conversation covers board confidence, stakeholder communication, SME review and oversight, candidate preparation, AI governance, application and renewal workflows, exam development, and why successful AI adoption depends on solving real problems, staying transparent, and scaling only after trust has been built. What you’ll learn: Why WPI chose practice exam development as a practical starting point for AI adoptionHow board oversight, stakeholder expectations, and public trust shaped WPI’s approachWhy AI adoption should begin with a real program need, not a technology announcementHow subject matter experts supported item development, rationales, references, and reviewWhat changes when SMEs move from manual creation toward validation, refinement, and oversightHow AI-supported practice tools can help candidates understand concepts, not just answer questionsWhere AI can support operations such as communications, applications, renewals, and candidate supportWhy governance, transparency, and human oversight are essential as AI use expands Who should listen: Credentialing and certification leaders exploring AI adoptionProgram owners balancing innovation, governance, and stakeholder trustAssessment professionals involved in item development, practice tests, or exam preparationSubject matter expert committees adapting to AI-supported workflowsLicensure and certification organizations serving public safety professionsOperations and product teams looking for responsible ways to use AIOrganizations moving from small AI pilots toward broader program strategy About the Guest: Haley Vanness is the Vice President of Water Professionals International (WPI), where she leads strategic initiatives and oversees the development and growth of certification programs serving water and wastewater professionals worldwide. During her tenure, she has played a key role in expanding WPI’s in-house certification programs, enhancing their value, improving operational efficiency, and increasing engagement across the industry. Her work focuses on advancing workforce development, modernizing credentialing practices, and integrating innovative solutions—including artificial intelligence—into certification and program operations. Haley collaborates closely with industry partners, subject matter experts, and organizational leadership to ensure programs remain relevant, data-driven, and aligned with evolving workforce needs. With a background in neuroscience, psychology, and credentialing, she brings a unique, analytical approach to program design and strategic decision-making. Haley is passionate about building sustainable systems, strengthening professional pathways, and supporting the continued growth and recognition of water professionals.

  2. Aug 6

    Taking the Future of Credentialing from Conversation to Practice with Pam Young Brown

    In this episode of Tried and Tested, host Isabelle Gonthier, PhD, ICE-CCP speaks with Pam Young Brown, a product strategy consultant working at the intersection of skills assessment, credentialing, and workforce development. Drawing on her experience leading certification and learning products at Amazon Web Services and the Graduate Management Admission Council, Pam shares a practical perspective on where credentialing is headed and what it takes to build programs that remain meaningful as skills, technology, and workforce expectations evolve.  As organizations move from talking about the future of credentialing to actually building it, Pam explains why modernization must start with customer needs, clear outcomes, and a realistic view of organizational risk. The conversation covers shorter skill shelf lives, lifelong learning, microcredentials and badges, employer trust, technology-enabled assessment experiences, the role of AI in exam development and security, and how credentialing organizations can balance innovation, speed, rigor, and credibility.  What you’ll learn: Why the pace of change is forcing credentialing organizations to rethink how quickly programs evolve How shorter skill shelf lives are reshaping certification, microcredentials, and lifelong learning Why credentialing should tell a broader story about a person’s skills, experience, and growth What learners and employers need in order to understand and trust newer credentialing models How technology can improve exam development, security, and candidate experience when tied to a clear strategy Why speed and efficiency should not come at the expense of quality, validity, or reliability How organizations can balance incremental improvements with more disruptive innovation Where to start when moving from future-of-credentialing conversations to practical action Who should listen: Credentialing and certification leaders modernizing their programs Assessment professionals balancing innovation, rigor, and trustProduct leaders building skills assessment or workforce learning solutions Workforce development teams focused on upskilling and future-ready talent Organizations exploring microcredentials, badges, or new skill recognition models Employers and talent leaders evaluating how credentials signal capability Teams trying to move from strategy discussions to practical implementation About the guest: Pam Young Brown is a product strategy consultant working at the intersection of skills assessment, credentialing, and workforce development. She was previously the product leader for the certification program at Amazon Web Services and director of product management at the Graduate Management Admission Council.  At AWS, Pam revamped the AWS Certification portfolio, expanding into AI certifications, accelerating time to market, and introducing new microcredentials to meet the evolving needs of tech learners. At GMAC, she led the digital transformation of the test prep product portfolio, forging new partnerships and launching digital learning offerings to support candidates preparing for graduate management education.  With over a decade of experience shaping credentialing products at two of the most recognized names in assessment, Pam brings a practitioner's perspective on where the industry is headed and what it takes to build credentials that are meaningful and future-ready.

  3. Jul 23

    AI and the New Challenges Facing Educational Testing with UMass Amherst’s Stephen Sireci

    In this episode of Tried and Tested, host Isabelle Gonthier, PhD, ICE-CCP speaks with Stephen G. Sireci, Ph.D., Distinguished Professor and Executive Director of the Center for Educational Assessment at the University of Massachusetts Amherst, about AI and the new challenges facing educational testing. Drawing on his work in psychometrics, validity, fairness, educational measurement, and test development, Stephen explores how AI is reshaping what assessment professionals can do, and what they must continue to scrutinize carefully. As generative AI becomes part of test development, scoring, translation, accessibility, reporting, and candidate preparation, this conversation examines what should change and what must remain foundational. Stephen discusses how assessment can better support learning, why AI outputs still require human interrogation, and what personalization means for long-standing ideas of standardization. He also explores validity evidence in AI-supported workflows, cultural and linguistic fairness, micro-credentials, and why validity research remains essential to the future of the testing profession. What you’ll learn: How AI is expanding what assessment professionals can do across the testing lifecycleWhy assessments are increasingly being used to support learning, not only measure itWhat personalized assessment models could mean for validity, fairness, and traditional ideas of standardizationWhy AI outputs need to be interrogated, evaluated, and supported by evidenceHow AI may affect test development, scoring, alignment, translation, and accessibilityWhat candidate use of AI means for defining the construct being assessedWhere cultural and linguistic context matters when applying AI in assessmentWhy validity research remains central as testing programs adopt new technologiesWho should listen: Educational testing and assessment leaders evaluating AI-enabled changePsychometricians and measurement professionals focused on validity and fairnessTest developers exploring AI-supported item development, scoring, or alignmentCredentialing and certification leaders considering AI’s impact on workforce skillsLanguage assessment and multilingual testing professionalsResearchers and graduate students working in educational measurementOrganizations balancing innovation, defensibility, and public trust in testing About the guest:Stephen G. Sireci, Ph.D. is Distinguished Professor and Executive Director of the Center for Educational Assessment in the College of Education, University of Massachusetts Amherst. He earned his Ph.D. in psychometrics from Fordham University and his master and bachelor degrees in psychology from Loyola College Maryland. Before UMass, he was Senior Psychometrician at GED Testing Service, Psychometrician for the CPA Exam and Research Supervisor of Testing for the Newark NJ Board of Education. He is known for his research in validity and fairness of educational tests, and for innovations in test development. He currently serves/has served on several advisory boards including the National Board of Professional Teaching Standards, Duolingo English Test, and technical advisory committees for Florida, Maryland, New Hampshire, New York, Montana, Puerto Rico, and Texas. He is a Fellow of American Educational Research Association and of Division 5 of American Psychological Association, and a lifetime member of the National Academy of Education. He is a past President of International Test Commission, Northeastern Educational Research Association, and National Council on Measurement in Education. His UMass honors include School of Education’s Outstanding Teacher Award, Conti Faculty Fellowship, Public Engagement Fellowship, Outstanding Accomplishments in Research and Creative Activity Award, and the Chancellor’s Medal. He also received the Messick Memorial Lecture Award from Educational Testing Service/International Language Testing Association.

  4. Jul 9

    Global Learning, AI, and the Future of Workforce Readiness with Maria Spies of HolonIQ and QS

    In this episode of Tried and Tested, host Isabelle Gonthier, PhD, ICE-CCP, speaks with Maria Spies, Co-Founder of HolonIQ and Chief Innovation Officer at QS, about global learning, AI, and the future of workforce readiness. Drawing on more than 25 years in post-secondary education, workforce learning, and education technology, Maria explores how demographic change, technology, and shifting workforce needs are reshaping the way learners build skills and how organizations recognize them. As governments, employers, and education providers respond to rapid change, Maria explains why assessment and credentialing leaders need to think beyond traditional models of learning and proof. The conversation covers micro-credentials, alternative pathways, AI literacy, learning analytics, embedded learning in the flow of work, English language learning for global mobility, and why trusted evidence of skills will become increasingly important across the lifelong learning ecosystem. What you’ll learn: How global education and workforce trends are reshaping assessment and credentialingWhy demographic shifts are creating different learning and skills needs across regionsWhat is driving demand for micro-credentials, short courses, and alternative pathwaysWhy proof of skills is becoming more important, and more complex, for learners and employersHow technology and data can help make learning more observable without losing sight of design and trustWhat embedded learning in the flow of work could mean for future assessment modelsWhy English language learning is a useful signal for broader workforce learning trendsHow leaders can focus innovation by building from their organization’s existing strengthsWho should listen: Assessment and credentialing leaders planning for workforce changeEducation and training organizations building flexible learning pathwaysWorkforce development leaders focused on upskilling and lifelong learningEmployers and talent leaders thinking about proof of skills and workforce readinessEdtech, learning science, and product teams designing digital learning experiencesLanguage assessment and English learning professionals tracking global mobility trendsOrganizations exploring how AI, data, and credentials can support trusted skill recognition

  5. Jun 25

    From Point-in-Time Testing to Continuous Certification: Insights with NBCRNA’s Tim Muckle

    In this episode of Tried and Tested, host Isabelle Gonthier, PhD, ICE-CCP, speaks with Tim Muckle, PhD, ICE-CCP, Chief Assessment Officer at the National Board of Certification and Recertification for Nurse Anesthetists, about longitudinal assessment and the future of continued professional certification. Drawing on his background in mathematics, psychometrics, healthcare certification, and assessment leadership, Tim explains how NBCRNA is rethinking recertification in a way that supports patient safety, lifelong learning, and trust with certificants. As certification programs look for models that are more continuous, flexible, and relevant, Tim shares how NBCRNA moved from a traditional point-in-time assessment toward the MAC Check, a longitudinal assessment model built around smaller quarterly question sets, immediate feedback, spaced repetition, and ongoing evidence of competence. The conversation also explores stakeholder engagement, change management, the balance between rigor and accessibility, how AI may influence clinical practice and assessment, and why mission alignment is essential when changing maintenance of certification programs. What you’ll learn: How longitudinal assessment differs from traditional point-in-time testingWhy continuous certification can better support lifelong learning and professional growthHow smaller, periodic question sets can reduce burden while still accumulating evidence of competenceWhat immediate feedback, spaced repetition, and related retake questions add to the assessment experienceWhy psychometric defensibility alone is not enough to build stakeholder trustHow NBCRNA used research, communication, and certificant feedback to support program changeWhere AI, evolving clinical practice, and expectations for relevance may shape future certification modelsWhy assessment leaders should start with mission before redesigning recertification or maintenance programsWho should listen: Certification and recertification leaders exploring longitudinal assessmentAssessment and credentialing professionals responsible for maintenance of certification programsPsychometricians and test developers balancing rigor, feedback, and learner supportLicensure and healthcare certification organizations focused on public safety and continuing competenceProgram owners managing stakeholder trust, communication, and changeOrganizations rethinking how certification can better support lifelong professional learningAbout the guest:Dr. Muckle is the Chief Assessment Officer with the National Board of Certification and Recertification for Nurse Anesthetists (NBCRNA), based in Chicago, IL. In his career, Dr. Muckle has been responsible for overseeing the test development and psychometric quality of a variety of credentialing examinations. His work has included the development of innovative assessment formats (such as longitudinal assessment), consultation and steering of testing policy and strategy, and spearheading an assessment-focused research agenda. He brings 25+ years of experience in certification, test development and research to his present role. Tim has published numerous articles in testing-related scientific journals and publications and has been a regular presenter at meetings of the Association of Test Publishers (ATP), and the Institute for Credentialing Excellence, among others. Among his skills and qualifications are: strategic thinking and planning, organizational leadership, statistical analysis, research and publications, team building, innovative assessment formats, and volunteer service to the credentialing industry.

  6. Jun 11

    What AI Changes About Assessment Evidence: Insights with Khan Academy’s Kristen DiCerbo

    In this episode of Tried and Tested, host Isabelle Gonthier, PhD, ICE-CCP, speaks with Dr. Kristen DiCerbo, Chief Learning Officer at Khan Academy and one of Time’s top 100 people influencing the future of AI in 2024. Drawing on her background in school psychology, learning science, edtech, and assessment design, Kristen explores how AI is changing what assessment professionals can observe, interpret, and use as evidence of what learners know and can do. As assessment programs look for more authentic ways to measure real-world skills, Kristen explains why better tasks are only part of the equation. The conversation covers task models versus evidence models, the importance of closing the inferential distance, lessons from simulation and game-based assessment, Khan Academy’s “Explain Your Thinking” work, and why new measurement approaches should often begin in lower-stakes formative environments before moving into higher-stakes use. What you’ll learn: How AI can surface evidence of learner thinking beyond a single answerWhy valid assessment starts with separating tasks from evidenceWhat “closing the inferential distance” means for assessment designWhere simulations, games, and open-ended tasks can create noise instead of signalWhy new AI measurement approaches should start in low-stakes settingsHow to balance innovation with structure, validity, and defensibilityWhat multimodal AI and on-device models could mean for future assessmentWho should listen: Assessment and credentialing leaders exploring AIPsychometricians and test developersCertification and licensure program ownersEdtech and learning science teamsProduct leaders building digital assessment experiencesEducators working with formative or performance-based assessmentAbout the guest:Dr. Kristen DiCerbo is the Chief Learning Officer at Khan Academy, where she leads the content, assessment, design, product management, and community support teams. Time magazine named her one of the top 100 people influencing the future of AI in 2024. Dr. DiCerbo’s career has focused on embedding insights from education research into digital learning experiences. Prior to her role at Khan Academy, she was Vice-President of Learning Research and Design at Pearson, served as a research scientist supporting the Cisco Networking Academies, and worked as a school psychologist. Kristen has a Ph.D. in Educational Psychology from Arizona State University.

  7. May 28

    Test Security, Agentic AI, and the Future of Assessment with Paul Muir from risr/

    As assessment programs confront increasingly sophisticated fraud and rapid advances in Artificial Intelligence, protecting trust and integrity has never been more complex. In this episode of Tried and Tested, host Isabelle Gonthier, PhD, ICE-CCP sits down with Paul Muir, Chief Customer Officer at risr/ and Board Chair of the Association of Test Publishers, for a candid conversation recorded live at the ATP Innovations in Testing Conference. With more than 25 years in the assessment industry, Paul shares a front‑line perspective on test security, the rise of agentic AI, and the evolving role of industry collaboration. Together, they explore how assessment leaders can move from reactive security measures to more strategic, forward‑looking approaches, and how ATP is helping guide the community through a period of rapid technological change. What you’ll learn: How the test security threat landscape is evolving, including organized cheating, content harvesting, and increasingly sophisticated fraud techniquesWhere assessment and credentialing programs remain most vulnerable today, and why keeping pace with fraud is such a challengeWhat agentic AI means in the context of assessment, and how more autonomous systems introduce both new risks and new opportunitiesHow AI can be used proactively to strengthen test security rather than simply reacting to emerging threatsHow Paul’s dual perspective as a technology leader and ATP Board Chair informs his view of where assessment is headedThe role ATP plays in helping the industry navigate innovation, security, and trust during periods of rapid changeWhy collaboration and community engagement are critical to protecting the integrity of assessment programsWho should listen: Assessment and credentialing leaders responsible for program integrityTest security, compliance, and risk professionalsEducation and assessment technology providersOrganizations exploring or deploying AI in assessment programsATP members and professionals engaged in the broader assessment communityAbout the guest:Paul Muir serves as the Chief Customer Officer at risr/ and currently holds the position of Board Chair for the Association of Test Publishers (ATP). With over 25 years of experience in the assessment sector, Paul is an experienced leader and active volunteer, specialising in areas such as test security, assessment reform, technology-enabled assessment, and Artificial Intelligence. Since joining risr/ in 2024, Paul, who is based in the UK, has been responsible for driving thought leadership, developing strategic partnerships, and fostering engagement across the industry, community, and customer base.

  8. May 14

    Serious Games and Authentic Assessment with Jenn McNamara from BreakAway Games

    In this episode of Tried and Tested, host Isabelle Gonthier, PhD,- ICE CCP, Chief Assessment Officer at PSI and ETS, sits down with Jenn McNamara, Vice President of Strategic Products and Partnerships at BreakAway Games. Recorded live at the ATP Conference, the conversation explores how serious games are being used to support authentic, performance based assessment across defense, healthcare, and professional credentialing programs. Jenn shares how game based environments can capture real world decision making, reduce traditional test effects, and provide richer evidence of readiness than item based assessments alone. The discussion also covers the role of AI in game design and assessment delivery, the importance of accessibility by design, and what emerging innovation trends signal about the future of assessment. What you’ll learn: How “serious games” are defined and how they differ from surface level gamificationWhy authenticity, particularly cognitive fidelity, matters more than visual realism in assessment designWhat immersive, strategy based environments can reveal about real world decision making, stress, and readinessHow independent research and validation help make game based assessment credible and defensible in high stakes contextsWhere serious games are most effective in assessment programs, and where assessment leaders should be cautiousHow AI is influencing the future of immersive assessment, including adaptive scenarios and content variation, while maintaining rigor and fairnessWho should listen: Credentialing and certification leaders exploring authentic or performance based assessment approachesAssessment professionals seeking new ways to evaluate decision making, judgment, and applied skillsPsychometricians and assessment designers interested in emerging item types and validation modelsProgram owners responsible for accessibility, candidate experience, and exam integrityTesting and education technology professionals tracking the role of serious games and AI in assessment About the Guest: Jenn McNamara is Vice President of Strategic Products and Partnerships at BreakAway Games, focused on delivering immersive solutions for education, assessment, and performance support. With over 25 years of experience in cognitive psychology, serious games, and AI-driven systems research and development, Jenn is a recognized leader and trusted partner raising the standard of advanced, technology-driven learning and assessment for defense, healthcare, and corporate sectors. Jenn’s pioneering design and development approaches set the accessibility standard for serious games. She speaks frequently at conferences including I/ITSEC, ATP Innovations in Testing, Serious Play, and Games for Change. In volunteer support of the industry, Jenn also directs the nonprofit Serious Games Showcase & Challenge and serves in leadership roles with the NDIA Human Systems Conference, Serious Play Conference, and ATP Innovations in Testing Conference.

See All (59)

Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
4 Ratings

About

Welcome to PSI’s Tried and Tested Podcast, hosted by Isabelle Gonthier. Tune in every other Thursday for expert conversations on testing, credentialing, and assessment. Each episode explores industry trends, practical insights, and the real work behind high stakes testing, featuring leaders and practitioners shaping the future of the assessment industry.

Information

  • Creator
    PSI Services
  • Years Active
    2023 - 2026
  • Episodes
    59
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © PSI Services
  • Show Website
    Tried and Tested Podcast

You Might Also Like