Tried and Tested Podcast

PSI Services

Welcome to PSI’s Tried and Tested Podcast, hosted by Isabelle Gonthier. Tune in every other Thursday for expert conversations on testing, credentialing, and assessment. Each episode explores industry trends, practical insights, and the real work behind high stakes testing, featuring leaders and practitioners shaping the future of the assessment industry.

  1. 3d ago

    Rethinking School Assessment at Scale with CISCE’s Dr. Joseph Emmanuel

    In this episode of Tried and Tested, host Isabelle Gonthier, PhD-ICE-CCP, speaks with Dr. Joseph Emmanuel, Chief Executive and Secretary of the Council for the Indian School Certificate Examinations, about the role of assessment in shaping student learning, progression, and opportunity. Drawing on more than three decades of experience across academic governance, large-scale assessment, institutional transformation, and national education initiatives, Dr. Emmanuel shares his perspective on how assessment can move beyond marks to better support learner development. As India continues to advance competency-based education and holistic progress measures, Dr. Emmanuel explains why assessment should be used not only to evaluate students, but to promote learning, identify potential, and guide future pathways. The conversation covers India’s National Education Policy, the shift away from rote learning, key stage assessments, teacher capacity building, classroom practice, PARAKH, holistic progress reporting, equity at scale, and what education systems around the world can learn from India’s diverse assessment ecosystem. What you’ll learn: Why assessment should be used as a tool for learning, not only a way to assign marksHow India is moving from rote learning toward competency-based educationWhy classroom teaching and external assessment need to work togetherHow key stage assessments can support learning progression before high-stakes examsWhat PARAKH and holistic progress reporting aim to bring to India’s education systemWhy teacher capacity building is essential to meaningful assessment reformHow assessment can help identify student abilities, aptitudes, skills, and potentialWhat other education systems can learn from India’s scale, diversity, inclusivity, and focus on equity Who should listen: Education and assessment leaders focused on school reformK-12 and secondary education professionals rethinking student progressPolicymakers and school board leaders working on competency-based assessmentTeachers and educator development teams supporting classroom-level changeAssessment professionals interested in large-scale education systemsOrganizations focused on equity, access, and quality in educationLeaders exploring how assessment can better prepare students for learning, work, and life About the Guest: Dr. Joseph Emmanuel is the Chief Executive and Secretary of the Council for the Indian School Certificate Examinations (CISCE), one of India’s premier national school education boards, responsible for conducting the Class X and XII examinations in India and overseas. A distinguished leader in the field of education, he brings over three decades of rich and diverse experience spanning academic governance and large-scale assessments. Prior to his current role, Dr. Emmanuel held several key leadership positions at the Central Board of Secondary Education (CBSE), including Secretary, Director (Academics), Regional Director, and Officer on Special Duty for the National Eligibility cum Entrance Test (NEET). Across these roles, he demonstrated exceptional administrative acumen and visionary leadership in strengthening school education systems. His professional journey also includes serving as Executive Officer at the Institute of Chartered Accountants of India and as National Project Manager for India’s participation in the Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) under the OECD—an engagement that reflects his global outlook on educational benchmarking and quality standards. He was instrumental in integrating technology across examinations, affiliations, and student services, thereby enhancing efficiency, transparency, and scalability. A key architect in advancing the vision of the National Education Policy (NEP) 2020, Dr. Emmanuel has championed transformative academic initiatives to promote competency-based learning, continuous assessment, and the all-round development of learners.

  2. Oct 15

    Inside the Entrust Fraud Lab: The Evolution of Identity Fraud in Testing

    In this special episode of Tried and Tested, host Isabelle Gonthier, PhD, ICE-CCP visits the Entrust Fraud Lab for a closer look at how identity fraud is evolving and what it means for high-stakes testing. This video-first episode takes viewers inside a hands-on lab environment, and listeners are encouraged to tune in to the video version to see the fraud techniques and demonstrations discussed throughout the conversation. Joined by Simon Horswell, Fraud Solution Specialist at Entrust, Isabelle explores how fraud techniques can be studied, reproduced, and better understood before they affect live programs. As deepfakes, injection attacks, presentation attacks, and digital identity tools become more accessible and more sophisticated, Simon explains why assessment organizations need layered defenses, strong identity verification, and a full-candidate-journey view of test security. The conversation covers document fraud, remote identity verification, fraud lab research, machine learning signals, deepfake detection, balancing security with candidate experience, human review, data protection, and what testing can learn from sectors such as border control, finance, and fintech. What you’ll learn: How fraud labs study, reproduce, and test attacks in a controlled environmentWhy identity fraud has evolved from physical document attacks to deepfakes and injection attacksWhat presentation attacks and virtual camera injection attacks mean for remote testingWhy fraud prevention requires layered defenses instead of one “silver bullet”How assessment organizations can balance strong security with a reasonable candidate experienceWhy identity verification should extend across the full candidate journey, not just check-inWhat testing programs can learn from border control, finance, fintech, and digital identity regulation Who should listen: Assessment and credentialing leaders responsible for test securityRemote proctoring and exam delivery teams managing identity verificationCertification and licensure programs using high-stakes online testingSecurity, operations, and compliance teams focused on fraud preventionOrganizations evaluating deepfake, injection attack, or digital identity risksCandidate experience teams balancing security, accessibility, and user frictionLeaders looking to understand how fraud tactics are changing across industries About the Guest: An expert in ID document security and fraud with over 25 years’ experience, Simon Horswell plays a key role in Entrust’s product development strategy. Simon is responsible for managing the Fraud Lab team and advising Product. This includes giving expert advice and training on recognising fraud signals, deep-dive investigations, research and generating training datasets, helping businesses to reduce cost of customer acquisition, enhance fraud protection, and satisfy global compliance needs. Prior to Entrust, Simon worked as a Document Expert and international trainer with Foster & Freeman Ltd, working closely with the forensic equipment manufacturer on new and existing products, and providing training and advice to police, immigration and forensic departments, and banks and document manufacturers all over the world. Simon has also served as an Expert Document Examiner and trainer for several years at the UK’s National Document Fraud Unit (NDFU), sharing his knowledge with embassies, consulates, immigration offices and police departments all over the world. His duties also required him to give expert testimony in court. Simon started his career in the security sector as an Immigration Officer in the UK Immigration Service and the Forgery Team at Gatwick Airport.

  3. Oct 1

    What Environmental, Social and Governance (ESG) Means for Assessment: Social Value, Access, and Impact

    In this episode of Tried and Tested, host Isabelle Gonthier, PhD, ICE-CCP speaks with Matthew Barrell, Environmental, Social, and Governance Manager at PSI, about ESG, social value, and the future of assessment. Based in the UK, Matthew leads PSI’s ESG program, overseeing sustainability strategy, carbon reduction initiatives, and social value delivery while working across the business to embed sustainability into operations, decision-making, and client services. As ESG expectations continue to grow across assessment and credentialing, Matthew explains why sustainability is no longer just about environmental impact or corporate initiatives. The conversation explores social value, accessibility, public procurement, candidate experience, delivery networks, community impact, environmental responsibility, governance, and why meaningful ESG work must move beyond compliance to become part of how organizations operate every day. What you’ll learn: Why ESG is becoming more important across assessment, credentialing, and public sector workHow the conversation has expanded beyond environmental sustainability to include social valueWhy assessment itself can create social impact through access to education, licensure, employment, and mobilityWhat it means to design candidate experiences that are not just compliant, but genuinely inclusiveHow delivery networks, suppliers, and local partners can support social and economic impactWhere assessment organizations can reduce environmental impact across test centers, travel, energy use, and operationsWhy data, reporting, accountability, and governance are essential to making ESG commitments meaningfulHow leaders can embed sustainability into the business instead of treating it as a standalone initiative Who should listen: Assessment and credentialing leaders thinking about ESG and social valueCertification and licensure organizations responding to public sector and procurement expectationsOperations and delivery teams managing test centers, partners, suppliers, or candidate experienceAccessibility and accommodations teams focused on inclusive testing experiencesESG, sustainability, and social impact professionals working in assessment or educationBusiness leaders looking to connect sustainability goals with day-to-day operationsOrganizations trying to move from ESG commitments to measurable impact About the guest: Matthew Barrell joined PSI Services (UK) Limited in 2025 as the Environmental Social and Governance (ESG) Manager. Based in the UK, he leads the company’s ESG program, overseeing sustainability strategy, carbon reduction initiatives and social value delivery. Matthew works closely with teams across the business to embed sustainability considerations into day-to-day operations, decision-making and client services, helping drive progress against PSI’s environmental and social impact goals.

  4. Sep 17

    Reaching the Future Workforce: Messaging, Value, and Candidate Demand with NBCOT’s Angela Macauley

    In this episode of Tried and Tested, host Isabelle Gonthier, PhD, ICE-CCP, speaks with Angela Macauley, PMP, President and CEO of the National Board for Certification in Occupational Therapy, about workforce demand, candidate pipelines, and the role credentialing organizations can play in helping professions stay visible, relevant, and understood. Drawing on nearly 20 years at NBCOT across marketing, communications, governance, strategy, and organizational leadership, Angela shares a broad perspective on the opportunities and challenges facing occupational therapy and the future professionals entering the field. As workforce needs shift and younger generations discover careers in new ways, Angela explains why credentialing organizations must think beyond certification as a final step and consider how they communicate value much earlier in the candidate journey. The conversation covers future-facing messaging, social media and digital outreach, education-to-workforce alignment, employer expectations, public protection, and how professions can make their pathways feel both credible and compelling to the next generation. What you’ll learn: Why candidate demand and workforce visibility are becoming strategic priorities for credentialing organizationsHow professions can communicate value before future candidates are actively thinking about certificationWhy occupational therapy must remain visible, understandable, and compelling to the next generationHow younger audiences discover careers through digital channels, peer networks, and online communitiesWhat future candidates need to understand about cost, time, flexibility, growth, and long-term relevanceWhere education, certification, and employer expectations may need stronger alignmentHow credentialing organizations can support public protection while making career pathways feel accessibleWhat workforce-led marketing can teach programs about messaging that resonates with prospective candidates Who should listen: Certification and credentialing leaders focused on workforce demandProgram leaders responsible for candidate pipelines and future growthMarketing and communications teams supporting credentialing or professional associationsOccupational therapy leaders and stakeholders thinking about the future of the professionEducation and workforce partners aligning preparation with employer needsOrganizations trying to make career pathways clearer, more visible, and more compellingLeaders balancing public protection, professional standards, and candidate engagement About the Guest: Angela Macauley is President and CEO of the National Board for Certification in Occupational Therapy (NBCOT), where she has spent nearly 20 years working across marketing, communications, governance, strategy, and organizational leadership. Her experience has given her a broad perspective on credentialing and the opportunities and challenges facing the occupational therapy profession. She leads NBCOT’s strategic direction and its work to uphold the standards that support safe, competent occupational therapy practice and advance its mission of public protection.

  5. Sep 3

    From School to Skills: Rethinking Assessment, Credentials, and Workforce Readiness with Chad Buckendahl

    In this episode of Tried and Tested, host Isabelle Gonthier, PhD, ICE-CCP speaks with Chad Buckendahl, PhD, ICE-CCP, Managing Partner at ACS Ventures, about how assessment, credentials, and workforce readiness can be better connected across the learner journey. Drawing on his work in program design, evaluation, standard setting, policy, legal issues, and validation studies across credentialing and education, Chad explores why school, work, and professional credentialing should not be treated as separate systems. As more education and credentialing leaders look for ways to connect classroom learning with future careers, Chad explains why durable skills, quantitative reasoning, data interpretation, and career-connected credentials deserve closer attention. The conversation covers credentials as checkpoints across lifelong learning, the role of high school in building workforce-ready skills, the risks of siloed systems, the importance of validity, reliability, and fairness, and why AI literacy should start with being a critical consumer of new technologies. What you’ll learn: How credentials can serve as checkpoints across a lifelong learning pathwayWhy school, workforce, and professional credentialing systems need stronger connectionsWhat durable skills, including reading, communication, and quantitative reasoning, mean for career readinessWhy data interpretation may be one of the most important skills students need for work and lifeHow high school credentials can help students explore career pathways without narrowing opportunityWhat education and credentialing leaders should consider before adding workforce credentials to school programsWhy AI literacy should focus on critical thinking, source credibility, and responsible useHow multidisciplinary learning can help people adapt as work, technology, and assessment continue to evolve Who should listen: Education and assessment leaders connecting school outcomes to workforce readinessCredentialing and certification professionals exploring earlier career pathwaysK-12 and secondary education leaders evaluating workforce-related credentialsEmployers and workforce development teams focused on durable skills and talent pipelinesPsychometricians and program evaluators working across education and credentialingPolicy and program leaders responsible for validity, fairness, and quality assuranceOrganizations thinking about how AI and technology should shape future-ready skillsAbout the guest: Chad Buckendahl, PhD, ICE-CCP, is a Managing Partner with ACS Ventures, LLC with an emphasis in program design, evaluation, standard setting, policy, and legal issues. Dr. Buckendahl has designed and led development and validation studies for programs in credentialing and education. He regularly contributes thought leadership through professional conference presentations, white papers, journal articles, and book chapters. He currently serves on the joint committee for the revision of the Standards for Educational and Psychological Testing, technical advisory committees in the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom for diverse licensure, certification, and education programs; and previously served on volunteer committees for the Association of Test Publishers (ATP), Institute for Credentialing Excellence (I.C.E.), International Test Commission (ITC), and National Council on Measurement in Education (NCME).

  6. Aug 20

    Start Small, Build Trust, Scale Up: WPI’s Approach to AI in Credentialing

    In this episode of Tried and Tested, host Isabelle Gonthier, PhD, ICE-CCP speaks with Haley Vanness, CAE, ICE-CCP, CMP, AAiP, Vice President of Water Professionals International, about WPI’s journey toward building trust in AI adoption. Drawing on her work leading certification programs for water and wastewater professionals, Haley shares how WPI approached AI intentionally, starting with a practical use case that could support candidates, engage subject matter experts, and build confidence with the board and stakeholders. As credentialing organizations explore where AI can responsibly fit into program strategy, Haley explains why WPI began with practice exam development before expanding into broader operational opportunities. The conversation covers board confidence, stakeholder communication, SME review and oversight, candidate preparation, AI governance, application and renewal workflows, exam development, and why successful AI adoption depends on solving real problems, staying transparent, and scaling only after trust has been built. What you’ll learn: Why WPI chose practice exam development as a practical starting point for AI adoptionHow board oversight, stakeholder expectations, and public trust shaped WPI’s approachWhy AI adoption should begin with a real program need, not a technology announcementHow subject matter experts supported item development, rationales, references, and reviewWhat changes when SMEs move from manual creation toward validation, refinement, and oversightHow AI-supported practice tools can help candidates understand concepts, not just answer questionsWhere AI can support operations such as communications, applications, renewals, and candidate supportWhy governance, transparency, and human oversight are essential as AI use expands Who should listen: Credentialing and certification leaders exploring AI adoptionProgram owners balancing innovation, governance, and stakeholder trustAssessment professionals involved in item development, practice tests, or exam preparationSubject matter expert committees adapting to AI-supported workflowsLicensure and certification organizations serving public safety professionsOperations and product teams looking for responsible ways to use AIOrganizations moving from small AI pilots toward broader program strategy About the Guest: Haley Vanness is the Vice President of Water Professionals International (WPI), where she leads strategic initiatives and oversees the development and growth of certification programs serving water and wastewater professionals worldwide. During her tenure, she has played a key role in expanding WPI’s in-house certification programs, enhancing their value, improving operational efficiency, and increasing engagement across the industry. Her work focuses on advancing workforce development, modernizing credentialing practices, and integrating innovative solutions—including artificial intelligence—into certification and program operations. Haley collaborates closely with industry partners, subject matter experts, and organizational leadership to ensure programs remain relevant, data-driven, and aligned with evolving workforce needs. With a background in neuroscience, psychology, and credentialing, she brings a unique, analytical approach to program design and strategic decision-making. Haley is passionate about building sustainable systems, strengthening professional pathways, and supporting the continued growth and recognition of water professionals.

  7. Aug 6

    Taking the Future of Credentialing from Conversation to Practice with Pam Young Brown

    In this episode of Tried and Tested, host Isabelle Gonthier, PhD, ICE-CCP speaks with Pam Young Brown, a product strategy consultant working at the intersection of skills assessment, credentialing, and workforce development. Drawing on her experience leading certification and learning products at Amazon Web Services and the Graduate Management Admission Council, Pam shares a practical perspective on where credentialing is headed and what it takes to build programs that remain meaningful as skills, technology, and workforce expectations evolve.  As organizations move from talking about the future of credentialing to actually building it, Pam explains why modernization must start with customer needs, clear outcomes, and a realistic view of organizational risk. The conversation covers shorter skill shelf lives, lifelong learning, microcredentials and badges, employer trust, technology-enabled assessment experiences, the role of AI in exam development and security, and how credentialing organizations can balance innovation, speed, rigor, and credibility.  What you’ll learn: Why the pace of change is forcing credentialing organizations to rethink how quickly programs evolve How shorter skill shelf lives are reshaping certification, microcredentials, and lifelong learning Why credentialing should tell a broader story about a person’s skills, experience, and growth What learners and employers need in order to understand and trust newer credentialing models How technology can improve exam development, security, and candidate experience when tied to a clear strategy Why speed and efficiency should not come at the expense of quality, validity, or reliability How organizations can balance incremental improvements with more disruptive innovation Where to start when moving from future-of-credentialing conversations to practical action Who should listen: Credentialing and certification leaders modernizing their programs Assessment professionals balancing innovation, rigor, and trustProduct leaders building skills assessment or workforce learning solutions Workforce development teams focused on upskilling and future-ready talent Organizations exploring microcredentials, badges, or new skill recognition models Employers and talent leaders evaluating how credentials signal capability Teams trying to move from strategy discussions to practical implementation About the guest: Pam Young Brown is a product strategy consultant working at the intersection of skills assessment, credentialing, and workforce development. She was previously the product leader for the certification program at Amazon Web Services and director of product management at the Graduate Management Admission Council.  At AWS, Pam revamped the AWS Certification portfolio, expanding into AI certifications, accelerating time to market, and introducing new microcredentials to meet the evolving needs of tech learners. At GMAC, she led the digital transformation of the test prep product portfolio, forging new partnerships and launching digital learning offerings to support candidates preparing for graduate management education.  With over a decade of experience shaping credentialing products at two of the most recognized names in assessment, Pam brings a practitioner's perspective on where the industry is headed and what it takes to build credentials that are meaningful and future-ready.

  8. Jul 23

    AI and the New Challenges Facing Educational Testing with UMass Amherst’s Stephen Sireci

    In this episode of Tried and Tested, host Isabelle Gonthier, PhD, ICE-CCP speaks with Stephen G. Sireci, Ph.D., Distinguished Professor and Executive Director of the Center for Educational Assessment at the University of Massachusetts Amherst, about AI and the new challenges facing educational testing. Drawing on his work in psychometrics, validity, fairness, educational measurement, and test development, Stephen explores how AI is reshaping what assessment professionals can do, and what they must continue to scrutinize carefully. As generative AI becomes part of test development, scoring, translation, accessibility, reporting, and candidate preparation, this conversation examines what should change and what must remain foundational. Stephen discusses how assessment can better support learning, why AI outputs still require human interrogation, and what personalization means for long-standing ideas of standardization. He also explores validity evidence in AI-supported workflows, cultural and linguistic fairness, micro-credentials, and why validity research remains essential to the future of the testing profession. What you’ll learn: How AI is expanding what assessment professionals can do across the testing lifecycleWhy assessments are increasingly being used to support learning, not only measure itWhat personalized assessment models could mean for validity, fairness, and traditional ideas of standardizationWhy AI outputs need to be interrogated, evaluated, and supported by evidenceHow AI may affect test development, scoring, alignment, translation, and accessibilityWhat candidate use of AI means for defining the construct being assessedWhere cultural and linguistic context matters when applying AI in assessmentWhy validity research remains central as testing programs adopt new technologiesWho should listen: Educational testing and assessment leaders evaluating AI-enabled changePsychometricians and measurement professionals focused on validity and fairnessTest developers exploring AI-supported item development, scoring, or alignmentCredentialing and certification leaders considering AI’s impact on workforce skillsLanguage assessment and multilingual testing professionalsResearchers and graduate students working in educational measurementOrganizations balancing innovation, defensibility, and public trust in testing About the guest:Stephen G. Sireci, Ph.D. is Distinguished Professor and Executive Director of the Center for Educational Assessment in the College of Education, University of Massachusetts Amherst. He earned his Ph.D. in psychometrics from Fordham University and his master and bachelor degrees in psychology from Loyola College Maryland. Before UMass, he was Senior Psychometrician at GED Testing Service, Psychometrician for the CPA Exam and Research Supervisor of Testing for the Newark NJ Board of Education. He is known for his research in validity and fairness of educational tests, and for innovations in test development. He currently serves/has served on several advisory boards including the National Board of Professional Teaching Standards, Duolingo English Test, and technical advisory committees for Florida, Maryland, New Hampshire, New York, Montana, Puerto Rico, and Texas. He is a Fellow of American Educational Research Association and of Division 5 of American Psychological Association, and a lifetime member of the National Academy of Education. He is a past President of International Test Commission, Northeastern Educational Research Association, and National Council on Measurement in Education. His UMass honors include School of Education’s Outstanding Teacher Award, Conti Faculty Fellowship, Public Engagement Fellowship, Outstanding Accomplishments in Research and Creative Activity Award, and the Chancellor’s Medal. He also received the Messick Memorial Lecture Award from Educational Testing Service/International Language Testing Association.

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About

Welcome to PSI’s Tried and Tested Podcast, hosted by Isabelle Gonthier. Tune in every other Thursday for expert conversations on testing, credentialing, and assessment. Each episode explores industry trends, practical insights, and the real work behind high stakes testing, featuring leaders and practitioners shaping the future of the assessment industry.

Information

  • Creator
    PSI Services
  • Years Active
    2023 - 2026
  • Episodes
    64
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © PSI Services
  • Show Website
    Tried and Tested Podcast