Outside the Screen Podcast

Outside the Screen

A podcast about families and screens outsidethescreen.substack.com

  1. Episode 64: SMMA evaluation and classification reform

    3d ago

    Episode 64: SMMA evaluation and classification reform

    Hi Outsiders, finally I’ve been able to create a new episode! At first I wondered if I still had the skills, but fear not. I got through it. It’s been an interesting day today, because when I woke up this morning and checked my phone, there was a text from a producer at ABC News Radio, asking if they could interview me about the proposed changes to the social media minimum age (SMMA) legislation. Well I hadn’t heard about such changes, but that didn’t stop me! I boned up quickly, and did the interview here. Would love to have any feedback. In the course of that I came across the article that I discuss here in Paper Round. It’s by a team of 10, and the lead author is a postdoctoral fellow in public health at the University of Newcastle. From what I can see, the article - which aims to assess the impact of the SMMA legislation on younger teens’ social media use - has had quite some impact on the discussion. A lot of ‘See? I told you so’-type messages are flying around. So it was a great opportunity to do a bit of analysis of their approach and findings. In the course of the Paper Round segment I make reference to the demographic makeup of the participants, and promise to give further info here. So: NSW residents were 67% of participants, and are about 31% of all young Australians. Residents of major cities: 84% and 75%, respectively; and born in Australia: 94% and 79%. Interestingly, the authors say on these last two measures the participant group is ‘broadly consistent with national demographic patterns’. I then Zoom Out to give a bit of a history of attempts to reform the National Classification Scheme (NCS) for films, games and publications, culminating in a report about CMA’s submission to the most recent round of proposals. I will of course update you when there are any developments. Meanwhile there are plenty of links below, and I’m always happy to answer questions. Until then, happy listening, and don’t forget to hit subscribe, if you haven’t already, and spread the word! I’d love to have the encouragement :-D Outside the Screen Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Show notes The Paper Courtney Barnes et al, ‘Assessing early effects of Australia’s Social Media Minimum Age Act on adolescents’ social media use: observational study’ (2026) BMJ 393; doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj-2026-363695 (Published 24 June 2026) (or you can just click here) The government’s announcement of enhanced penalties and powers under the SMMA legislation: https://minister.infrastructure.gov.au/wells/media-release/stronger-powers-and-double-penalties-world-leading-social-media-law The Zoom * CMA submission on Mettlesome Report: https://childrenandmedia.org.au/assets/files/taking-action/cma-submission-on-classification-standards-may2026.pdf * CMA full explanation of age-based classifications proposal: https://childrenandmedia.org.au/taking-action/current-campaigns/classification * Mettlesome Report: https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/department/media/publications/update-modernise-and-harmonise-classification-guidelines-2025 * Stevens Review: https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/review-of-australian-classification-regulation--may2020.pdf * Australian Law Reform Commission report: https://www.alrc.gov.au/inquiry/national-classification-scheme-review/ * All the rest of CMA’s submissions: https://childrenandmedia.org.au/taking-action/our-submissions The Housekeeping Find us on: Facebook Instagram LinkedIn Substack Apple Podcasts Spotify OR search your favourite listening platform (let me know if it’s not there! – outsidethescreenpod[at]gmail.com) Children and Media Australia (CMA) Most importantly: the EOFY fundraiser is here: www.givenow.com.au/kbyg2. It’s open until 6 July. After that, you can still use our GoFundMe at https://www.gofundme.com/f/keep-CMAs-review-services-free. Any donation, large or small, is greatly appreciated, and as long as it’s at least $2, it’s also tax-deductible. You can find the Children and Media Australia Know Before You Go service via this link. Then, depending what you’re looking for, you can sort the list or search by title alphabetically, by age suitability, by classification or by date added. All of the reviews are prepared by people with training in child development, and they cover every G and PG title released in Australian cinemas since 2002, as well as selected M-rated movies and some pre-2002 ones that are available on streaming services. Or at this link, you can access Know Before You Load – reviews of game style apps and apps that may appeal to young children. These cover some extra things that are relevant to games, like data collection and gambling-like content. You might also like to sign up for our KBYG Weekly newsletter about the latest reviews, and join the CMA facebook community. Get full access to Outside the Screen Podcast at outsidethescreen.substack.com/subscribe

    20 min
  2. 10/24/2025

    Ep 63: Gambling, an invisible fox, and gossiping over ice cream

    Hello there, listeners, it’s been a while! Funny how some time away can make you lose your mojo, so it takes a while to get back into the podcast production groove. Add to that a lousy cold (punishment for excellent overseas travel*) and a raised paver + hands in pockets equalling bruised ribs … definitely not a good idea to be podcasting while feeling sorry for self. Well there are my excuses, and here is my apology, to anybody who missed the pod over the last few months. It’s great to be back, and I hope this one is worth the wait. The paper is about gambling - specifically the connection between novel forms (like lootboxes) and the onset of problem gambling. It also looks at different kind of psychological conditions and how they might make some people vulnerable to developing a bad relationship with gambling. Nothing terribly surprising, as we so often find, but knowing the facts can confirm what we know about how to protect our children from risks: choose content carefully, give lots of emotional support, keep an eye on things, and keep the lines of communication open. Outside the Screen Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support Children and Media Australia, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Glenn gives us a review of Arctic Justice, an animated adventure where the baddy is a climate vandal Walrus. Recommended for 7 and up, and don’t forget, any time you want you can use the CMA website to find a review of any G or PG movie released in cinemas in the last 23 years, plus quite a few M ones. You can also search by age to find something just right for your child. Then I analyse a recent complaint report on an Australian ad for what they call an ‘occasional food’. What starts out as a complaint about bullying ends up as a finding about something quite different. You’ll hear my musings on the nature of the ad self-regulation system generally, as well as the particulars of the complaint, the advertiser’s response and the community panel’s findings. (By the way, as always, I don’t mention the name of the advertiser - see if you can guess! You can check by clicking on the link to the report, below.) Well it’s nice to know I haven’t completely forgotten to do this! Let me know what you think, about the episode or anything else, here: Show notes Canadian/US paper: Jeremie Richard and Serena King, ‘Annual Research Review: Emergence of problem gambling from childhood to emerging adulthood: a systematic review ‘ (2023) 64(4) Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry 645-88 doi:10.1111/jcpp.13713 Arctic Justice review: https://childrenandmedia.org.au/movie-reviews/movies/arctic-justice Arctic Justice availability in Australia: https://www.flicks.com.au/movie/arctic-justice/ Zooming Out details: Complaint report https://adstandards.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/0321-24.pdf; AANA Codes https://aana.com.au/self-regulation/ Find us on: Facebook Instagram LinkedIn Substack Apple Podcasts Spotify OR search your favourite listening platform (let me know if it’s not there! – outsidethescreenpod[at]gmail.com) Children and Media Australia (CMA) You can find the Know Before You Go movie review service via this link. Then, depending what you’re looking for, you can sort the list or search by title alphabetically, by age suitability, by classification or by date added. All of the reviews are prepared by people with training in child development, and they cover every G and PG title released in Australian cinemas since 2002, as well as selected M-rated movies and some pre-2002 ones that are available on streaming services. Or at this link, you can access Know Before You Load – reviews of game style apps and apps that may appeal to young children. These cover some extra things that are relevant to games, like data collection and gambling-like content. You might also like to sign up for our KBYG Weekly newsletter about the latest reviews, and join the CMA facebook community. *Picture is of me at a wedding in Brittany. I know, I know. Get full access to Outside the Screen Podcast at outsidethescreen.substack.com/subscribe

    37 min
  3. 07/06/2025

    Ep 62: A bit of causation, a Big Fat Liar, and the return of Kim

    Yes, I do still know how to make a podcast - what a relief. I was starting to wonder for a minute there. It’s a great pleasure to bring you this episode, and stop beating myself up for losing the rhythm. Paper Round is on an Australian article about socio-emotional development and screen use. Are children who spend a lot of time on screens more likely than others to act out, or to become withdrawn and disengaged? There are some very helpful findings here on causation - something to really savour! In the movie review segment, Glenn talks us through a film featuring one of my favourite actors, Paul Giamatti (whom you might have seen in The Holdovers, Billions, or John Adams). Or maybe you’re a fan of Frankie Muniz or Amanda Bynes … I don’t usually talk about the cast of the movies we review but this one is rather a cut above! More importantly, of course, 2002’s Big Fat Liar could be a lot of fun and spark some interesting conversations with your over-6 children. And then in Zooming Out, well, Dr Kim zooms back to the studio to talk about age-inappropriate games and the role he plays in supporting parents to hold the line against them. Tune in again soon for an episode covering gambling, food ads and social media, but meanwhile: hope you enjoy this one! Show notes Vasconcellos et al paper: Roberta Pires Vasconcellos, Taren Sanders, Chris Lonsdale, Philip Parker, James Conigrave, Samantha Tang, Borja del Pozo Cruz, Stuart J. H. Biddle, Rachael Taylor, Christine Innes-Hughes, Katariina Salmela-Aro, Diego Vasconcellos, Katrina Wilhite, Ella Tremaine, Bridget Booker and Michael Noetel, ‘Electronic Screen Use and Children’s Socioemotional Problems: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis of Longitudinal Studies’ (2025) 151 (5) Psychological Bulletin 513–43 https://doi.org/10.1037/bul0000468 Big Fat Liar review: https://childrenandmedia.org.au/movie-reviews/movies/big-fat-liar Big Fat Liar availability in Australia: https://www.flicks.com.au/movie/big-fat-liar/ Zooming Out details: Kim’s clinic website https://www.cgiclinic.com/; Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/cgiclini/; Outcome of class action against Epic Games regarding in-game purchases: https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/refunds/fortnite-refunds; and here’s an update on the reports about the ESRB and facial recognition: https://www.ign.com/articles/esrb-facial-age-recognition-tech-response Find us on: Facebook Instagram LinkedIn Substack Apple Podcasts Spotify OR search your favourite listening platform (let me know if it’s not there! – outsidethescreenpod[at]gmail.com) Children and Media Australia (CMA) You can find the Children and Media Australia Know Before You Go service via this link. Then, depending what you’re looking for, you can sort the list or search by title alphabetically, by age suitability, by classification or by date added. All of the reviews are prepared by people with training in child development, and they cover every G and PG title released in Australian cinemas since 2002, as well as selected M-rated movies and some pre-2002 ones that are available on streaming services. Or at this link, you can access Know Before You Load – reviews of game style apps and apps that may appeal to young children. These cover some extra things that are relevant to games, like data collection and gambling-like content. You might also like to sign up for our KBYG Weekly newsletter about the latest reviews, and join the CMA facebook community. Get full access to Outside the Screen Podcast at outsidethescreen.substack.com/subscribe

    37 min
  4. 05/25/2025

    At last, the news you've been waiting for!

    I’ve been promising for a while to let you know what’s going on - and here is the news! As always I’d be delighted to hear from you, to be recommended to your friends and colleagues, etc etc. (I’m sure you know the drill.) And as always, I’m providing links so you can access some of the most useful info around, to support parents and families who are trying to find the best screen experiences. Watch out for the next full episode, coming soon! Meanwhile, find us on: Facebook Instagram LinkedIn Substack Apple Podcasts Spotify OR search your favourite listening platform (let me know if it’s not there! – outsidethescreenpod[at]gmail.com) Children and Media Australia (CMA) You can find the Children and Media Australia Know Before You Go service via this link. Then, depending what you’re looking for, you can sort the list or search by title alphabetically, by age suitability, by classification or by date added. All of the reviews are prepared by people with training in child development, and they cover every G and PG title released in Australian cinemas since 2002, as well as selected M-rated movies and some pre-2002 ones that are available on streaming services. Or at this link, you can access Know Before You Load – reviews of game style apps and apps that may appeal to young children. These cover some extra things that are relevant to games, like data collection and gambling-like content. You might also like to sign up for our KBYG Weekly newsletter about the latest reviews, and join the CMA facebook community. Outside the Screen Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Outside the Screen Podcast at outsidethescreen.substack.com/subscribe

    4 min
  5. 05/02/2025

    Ep 61: More on kidfluencers

    Good to be back! I had a lovely few weeks swanning (or rather traipsing) around Portugal, Spain, Norway* and Denmark, and now it’s back down to business. I’m pleased to advise I finally got a chance to interview my former colleague Andrew Stewart about the state of affairs regarding kidfluencers in Australia. (It only took 19 episodes, but who’s counting?) While I said back in Episode 42 that I thought child protection law had the best scope for preventing harm and exploitation, Andrew suggests special guidelines under workplace health and safety law - to address the special needs and vulnerabilities of children. Bit of a theme developing there. Lots more gems of information and insight, so don’t miss this interview. In Paper Round I take you through an article about screen time rules - and as usual the message is that it’s not just about length of time, it’s about the quality of the content AND the time of day. While the findings of the study seem quite small and localised, they can spark a lot of reflection on the general utility, not just of rules themselves, but of their content and the way they are enforced. I also mention in this episode that I’m going to have an announcement soon about the future of the podcast. I’m mentioning it here, too. Watch this space. Or subscribe and you’ll get an email when something happens. No review this week, but there’s a link below where you can access Know Before You Go and Know Before You Load. Glenn will be back next episode. *The background photo is a detail from a wall in the Oslo City Hall. Show notes New Zealand paper: Ladan Hashemi, Maryam Ghasemi, Deborah Schlichting, Maryam Pirouzi, Cameron Grant and Boyd Swinburn, 'Prospective relationship between family screen time rules, obesogenic behaviours, and childhood obesity' (2024) European Journal of Public Health https://doi.org/10.1093/eurpub/ckae169 Zooming Out details: Professor Andrew Stewart; Episode 42 Find us on: Facebook Instagram LinkedIn Substack Apple Podcasts Spotify OR search your favourite listening platform (let me know if it’s not there! – outsidethescreenpod[at]gmail.com) Children and Media Australia (CMA) You can find the Children and Media Australia Know Before You Go service via this link. Then, depending what you’re looking for, you can sort the list or search by title alphabetically, by age suitability, by classification or by date added. All of the reviews are prepared by people with training in child development, and they cover every G and PG title released in Australian cinemas since 2002, as well as selected M-rated movies and some pre-2002 ones that are available on streaming services. Or at this link, you can access Know Before You Load – reviews of game style apps and apps that may appeal to young children. These cover some extra things that are relevant to games, like data collection and gambling-like content. You might also like to sign up for our KBYG Weekly newsletter about the latest reviews, and join the CMA facebook community. Get full access to Outside the Screen Podcast at outsidethescreen.substack.com/subscribe

    35 min
  6. 03/16/2025

    Ep 60: Sarah Davies on holding tech companies accountable

    This episode is a little different, as I’ve devoted the whole thing to a single interview (see below). I’ve been wondering if I could maybe bring in a few alternative formats for individual episodes, for example not having a Paper Round or a movie review every single time. Let me know what you think! Are you just as happy to hear a long interview as to be getting info about research and movies? The interview is with Sarah Davies AM, the CEO of the Alannah and Madeline Foundation. She joined me to discuss a new, iceberg-based infographic that the Foundation has published, to just show how concerned we should be about data privacy. I also mention my plan to take a month’s break from the production schedule, so expect me back in your inbox in late April. If you miss me, let me know! Outside the Screen is a listener-supported podcast. To receive new episodes and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Show notes Alannah and Madeline Foundation: https://www.alannahandmadeline.org.au/ Iceberg infographic: https://www.alannahandmadeline.org.au/what-we-do/advocacy/digital-rights/tech-iceberg Digitalk: https://www.alannahandmadeline.org.au/learning-resources/digitalk Beacon app: https://beacon.thekids.org.au/ Find us on: Facebook Instagram LinkedIn Substack Apple Podcasts Spotify OR search your favourite listening platform (let me know if it’s not there! – outsidethescreenpod[at]gmail.com) Children and Media Australia (CMA) You can find the Children and Media Australia Know Before You Go service via this link. Then, depending what you’re looking for, you can sort the list or search by title alphabetically, by age suitability, by classification or by date added. All of the reviews are prepared by people with training in child development, and they cover every G and PG title released in Australian cinemas since 2002, as well as selected M-rated movies and some pre-2002 ones that are available on streaming services. Or at this link, you can access Know Before You Load – reviews of game style apps and apps that may appeal to young children. These cover some extra things that are relevant to games, like data collection and gambling-like content. You might also like to sign up for our KBYG Weekly newsletter about the latest reviews, and join the CMA facebook community. The GoFundMe page is here. Remember, it’s tax-deductible! Get full access to Outside the Screen Podcast at outsidethescreen.substack.com/subscribe

    34 min
  7. 03/01/2025

    Ep 59: Alternative approaches to privacy policies, with Adam Andreotta

    Hi and welcome back! It’s been a bit longer between episodes than I would have liked, but I have some news, which is that I’m gainfully employed again. This is good news in many ways as the work will be interesting, and it will be good to use some more of my skills as an academic again (I’ll be helping design a new law curriculum for Western Sydney University). But while it’s only fractional, it does mean I need to be a bit more careful with my time. I’m still figuring out what kind of production schedule is realistic, and always keen to hear any thoughts you might have about whether I should go fortnightly, break the episodes up more … honestly, open to any ideas you might have. Meanwhile I’ll keep in touch as to any developments, of course. And with that, let’s get on with the show! I really liked the paper that I chose for this week. It complicates the picture we might otherwise have about language acquisition, by pointing out that there are at least three dimensions to screen use: quantity (the first and maybe only one most people think of), quality and age of onset. The study looks at all three and while the results might not be surprising they can definitely open up a variety of strategies that you can consider for yourself and your family. This is followed up by another movie review, and thanks again to Glenn for contributing it. He and I contradict each other a bit so I should explain: I say it’s recommended for 4 and up, and he says recommended for all ages. This is because CMA doesn’t really recommend any movies for under-4s, thinking hardly any of those children would be able to sit still enough to get much out of long-form entertainment. But in this case the 4+ recommendation could well be interpreted to mean it’s fine for any age, in that there is no potentially harmful content, and of course if you watch it at home you can stop and start it as much as you like. Anyway, Moshi Monsters: The Movie is obviously very cute and inspiring, so definitely one to keep in the back pocket. The movie is available in Australia only to rent or buy, and sometimes we cover those on the podcast, especially if they’re suitable for very young children, because we know (sometimes from painful experience) that the littlies like to watch the same things over and over and over again. So it might be worth a small investment to get access to it. Finally, I’m making good on my resolution to get more interviews, by having quizzed Dr Adam Andreotta of Curtin University about his work on informed consent to privacy policies. Adam a philosopher who teaches ethics in the business school there, and he’s recently published a book called Rethinking Informed Consent In The Big Data Age. I hope you’ll agree, he has some pretty interesting ideas - and I for one will be keeping an eye out for things like comic contracts and personal privacy assistants. Hoping to be back fairly soon this time and hope you can forgive me for any inconvenience on this one - Liz Show notes Language acquisition paper: Sheri Madigan, Brae Anne McArthur, Ciana Anhorn, Rachel Eirich and Dimitri A. Christakis, ‘Associations between screen use and child language skills: a systematic review and meta-analysis’ (2020) 174 JAMA Pediatrics 665–75; doi: 10.1001/jamapediatrics.2020.0327 Moshi Monsters: The Movie review: https://childrenandmedia.org.au/movie-reviews/movies/moshi-monsters-the-movie Moshi Monsters: The Movie availability in Australia: https://www.flicks.com.au/movie/moshi-monsters-the-movie/ Dr Adam Andreotta in The Conversation: https://theconversation.com/online-privacy-policies-can-be-90-000-words-long-here-are-3-ways-to-simplify-them-247095 Adam’s book: https://www.routledge.com/Rethinking-Informed-Consent-in-the-Big-Data-Age/Andreotta/p/book/9781032625966 Find us on: Facebook Instagram LinkedIn Substack Apple Podcasts Spotify OR search your favourite listening platform (let me know if it’s not there! – outsidethescreenpod[at]gmail.com) Children and Media Australia (CMA) You can find the Children and Media Australia Know Before You Go service via this link. Then, depending what you’re looking for, you can sort the list or search by title alphabetically, by age suitability, by classification or by date added. All of the reviews are prepared by people with training in child development, and they cover every G and PG title released in Australian cinemas since 2002, as well as selected M-rated movies and some pre-2002 ones that are available on streaming services. Or at this link, you can access Know Before You Load – reviews of game style apps and apps that may appeal to young children. These cover some extra things that are relevant to games, like data collection and gambling-like content. You might also like to sign up for our KBYG Weekly newsletter about the latest Get full access to Outside the Screen Podcast at outsidethescreen.substack.com/subscribe

    37 min
  8. 02/05/2025

    Ep 58: Cyberbullying and depression

    Hi listeners, great to be back in your inbox with another episode of Outside the Screen. As I mentioned last time, I’m thinking of making some changes to the pod, and one is to make the episodes less frequent. So if you’ve been missing OTS and pining for the next instalment - let me know! This episode I’m covering two academic papers. The first one, from Vietnam, was written by scholars from medicine and public health, and it’s a quantitative study about the relationship between cyberbullying and depression. Specifically, it’s a systemic review and meta-analysis, covering 17 individual studies and nearly 8,000 research participants. The findings come as no shock, but there is some helpful, actionable advice to come out of it all. The second paper is from a law journal, and it’s a children’s rights analysis of age verification. The authors recognise the need to have age restrictions for children’s protection, but they also don’t shy away from the challenges. These are inherent to the whole question of age verification, since children’s rights require both that they be protected and that they have access to appropriate content and experiences. I think the information and ideas they provide will be hugely helpful in working through the challenges that are coming in Australia (and elsewhere) regarding the legislated minimum age for social media accounts. In between we get to hear about an Australian documentary, suitable for all ages (though maybe not inspiring for all), about the profound impact that musical education can have on children. See below for ways you can connect with the pod, or just enter your email here: Outside the Screen Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Show notes Paper Round: Huong Giang Nguyen Tran, Truc Thanh Thai, Truc Thanh Dang, Duy Kim Vo & Mai Huynh Thi Duong, ‘Cyber-victimization and its effect on depression in adolescents: A systematic review and meta-analysis’ (2023) 24(2) Trauma, Violence, & Abuse 1124–1139 Wide Open Sky: Review Availability in Australia Zooming Out: Sonia Livingstone, Abhilash Nair, Mariya Stoilova, Simone van der Hof and Cansu Caglar, 'Children's Rights and Online Age Assurance Systems: The Way Forward' (2024) 32 The International Journal of Children’s Rights 721–747; Caitlin Elsaesser, Beth Russell, Christine McCauley-Ohannessian and Desmond Patton, ‘Parenting in a Digital Age: A Review of Parents’ Role in Preventing Adolescent Cyberbullying (2017) 35 Aggression and Violent Behavior 62–72 Find us on: Facebook Instagram LinkedIn Substack Apple Podcasts Spotify OR search your favourite listening platform (let me know if it’s not there! – outsidethescreenpod[at]gmail.com) Children and Media Australia (CMA) You can find the Children and Media Australia Know Before You Go service via this link. Then, depending what you’re looking for, you can sort the list or search by title alphabetically, by age suitability, by classification or by date added. All of the reviews are prepared by people with training in child development, and they cover every G and PG title released in Australian cinemas since 2002, as well as selected M-rated movies and some pre-2002 ones that are available on streaming services. Or at this link, you can access Know Before You Load – reviews of game style apps and apps that may appeal to young children. These cover some extra things that are relevant to games, like data collection and gambling-like content. You might also like to sign up for our KBYG Weekly newsletter about the latest reviews, and join the CMA facebook community. Get full access to Outside the Screen Podcast at outsidethescreen.substack.com/subscribe

    31 min

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A podcast about families and screens outsidethescreen.substack.com