Art & Science of Complex Sales

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The Art & Science of Complex Sales brings together B2B sales experts to explore the strategies, challenges, and ideas shaping complex sales today. From sales leadership and prospecting to coaching, AI, buyer behavior, and performance, each episode offers practical perspectives for building stronger sales organizations.

  1. 1d ago

    Why AI Can’t Replace Your Judgment in Sales | Rocky LaGrone

    AI can gather information faster than ever. But can it make judgment calls, identify heart and grit in a candidate, or build the trust that wins complex deals? Rocky LaGrone joins Paul Fuller to talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly of AI in sales, from hiring and recruiting to sales leadership, coaching, and forecasting. Rocky explains why AI can tell you whether a candidate can sell but not whether they will, why the gap between salespeople, sales managers, and leadership is widening, and why the future of sales will come back to relationships, wisdom, and trust. In this episode, you’ll learn:🔹 Where AI helps in sales and where people rely on it too much🔹 Why AI can’t identify heart and grit when hiring salespeople🔹 What fishing teaches us about attracting great salespeople🔹 Why AI is widening the gap between salespeople, managers, and leadership Chapters:00:00 Introduction01:48 The good, bad, and ugly of AI07:58 How AI is impacting sales hiring10:44 Why most sales hires don’t work out13:19 What fishing teaches us about attracting salespeople16:07 Why AI is widening the gap in sales leadershipAbout About Rocky LaGrone:35 years / 267 industries / 5000+ intimate client engagements / 10K+ sales hires. Our comprehensive Rapid Sales Growth System’ delivers: Sales Training, Sales Hiring, Sales Coaching, Sales Strategy, Sales Process, Sales Consulting, Sales Team Analysis, Sales and Sales Management Candidate Assessments, and Sales Evaluations. Our Sales-Specific Hiring System mitigates your risk with 95% success. Ready to take your business to the next level? Connect with Rocky: www.salesdevelopmentexpert.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/salesdevelopmentexpert

    Why AI Can’t Replace Your Judgment in Sales | Rocky LaGrone

  2. Oct 23

    Fix Underperforming Reps and Sell More | 3 Questions Michael Koory

    How do you turn around an underperforming rep? Why isn’t your product selling? And how do you generate leads without burning cash on ads? In this episode of the 3 Questions series, Michael Koory joins Paul Fuller to answer three questions on the minds of sales leaders, CEOs, and founders. Michael explains why turning around a struggling rep starts with desire and a clear path, why companies that fall in love with their product’s features struggle to sell it, and why a problem-focused message is the fastest way to get traction. Because people buy painkillers in far greater quantities than vitamins. In this episode, you’ll learn:🔹 The two questions to ask before trying to turn around an underperforming rep 🔹 Why falling in love with your product’s features can stop it from selling🔹 Why people buy painkillers more than vitamins, and what that means for lead generation🔹 What revenue drift is and how small accommodations add up Chapters:00:00 Introduction00:39 How to turn around an underperforming rep01:45 Why isn’t my product selling?02:46 How to generate leads without burning cash on ads03:51 Bonus: What is revenue drift? About Michael Koory:Michael Koory brings 25 year +, merging practical sales experience with academic insights to craft the Guide Selling System™. With a passion for helping businesses thrive, this book encapsulates dedication to transforming the sales landscape.

    Fix Underperforming Reps and Sell More | 3 Questions Michael Koory

  3. Oct 16

    The Five Power Moves for Sales Managers | Kelly Riggs

    Why do so many top salespeople struggle when they become sales managers? Kelly Riggs joins Paul Fuller to talk about his new book, The Five Power Moves: How Struggling Sales Managers Become Transformational Sales Leaders, and the practical moves that help managers turn potential into performance. Kelly explains why accountability can’t be demanded, the three questions every struggling sales manager needs to answer, and what a Harvard Business Review study of 65,000 employees reveals about the tension between being liked and being effective. The conversation also covers how to set expectations that are truly clear, why consistent one-on-ones create visibility, how to have the coaching conversation before frustration takes over, and why transformational sales leaders require salespeople to build detailed plans for hitting their numbers. Chapters:00:00 Introduction03:14 Why accountability is the biggest struggle for sales managers09:11 The three questions every sales manager must answer13:13 Being liked vs. being effective16:51 Clarity, consistency, and coaching25:08 The SMART plan process - About Kelly Riggs:Kelly Riggs is an author, speaker, and founder of Business LockerRoom, Inc., where he has consulted with executives and companies throughout the United States and Canada since 2005.Kelly is a former sales executive, a two-time national Salesperson-of-the-Year, a serial entrepreneur, and the author of two books "1-on-1 Management" & What Every Great Manager Knows That You Don’t" and "Quit Whining and Start SELLING!" A Step-by-Step Guide to a Hall of Fame Career in Sales.  His third book was the award-winning Counter Mentor Leadership: How to Unlock the Potential of the 4-Generation Workplace, co-written with his son, Robby Riggs. It was selected as the 2019 Gold Medal winner in the leadership category by Axiom Business Books Awards. His most recent book, released in September 2026, is The Five Power Moves: How Struggling Sales Managers Become Transformational Sales LEADERS. For more information, visit www.kellyriggs.com.Want to read the book? Pick up The Five Power Moves by Kelly Riggs.📌 https://thefivepmbook.com

    The Five Power Moves for Sales Managers | Kelly Riggs

  4. Oct 9

    What Makes an Effective Sales Manager? | 3 Questions with Walter Crosby

    What makes a sales manager effective, what does great coaching look like, and why does growth in sales often require getting uncomfortable? Walter Crosby joins Paul Fuller for 3 Questions from The Art & Science of Complex Sales to share his perspective on sales leadership, coaching, and mental toughness. Walter explains why managers should focus on being respected rather than liked, what he learned from two influential sales coaches, and why strong feedback can help salespeople improve. The conversation also explores why the results we want are often on the other side of the uncomfortable calls, questions, and conversations we would rather avoid. In this episode, you'll learn: 00:00 Introduction 03:18 Should sales managers try to be liked? 05:00 Walter's best sales coaches 06:54 Why difficult feedback matters 08:42 Timeless sales advice: Be like a bison 09:51 Getting comfortable being uncomfortable - About Walter Crosby: Walter Crosby is an award-winning sales development expert, author, sales coach, and speaker. He is driven to help entrepreneurs solve problems in their sales organizations and grow revenue.

    What Makes an Effective Sales Manager? | 3 Questions with Walter Crosby

  5. Oct 2

    Building Trust in Sales in the Age of AI | Julie Thomas

    How do you build trust with buyers when AI and automation are changing almost every part of the sales process? Julie Thomas, CEO of ValueSelling Associates, joins Paul Fuller to explore new research into prospecting and what it reveals about gaining access and creating meaningful sales conversations in the age of AI. Julie explains why cold calling still works, why respectful persistence matters, and why strong communication, active listening, and critical thinking become even more important as technology takes on more of the work around the salesperson. The conversation also covers how automation can erode trust, why sales leaders need to keep investing in seller development, how to right-size the sales tech stack, and why technology should amplify good selling rather than accelerate bad selling. Chapters: 00:00 Introduction01:35 Julie Thomas’ journey in sales04:21 How AI is changing prospecting06:41 Why cold calling still works14:41 How better conversations build trust18:32 Why AI still requires strong sales skills23:13 Rethinking the sales tech stack30:14 Why trust matters more in the age of AI About Julie Thomas: Author, speaker and CEO of ValueSelling Associates, Inc., Julie Thomas works with revenue leaders, helping them achieve results they never thought possible. She also leads Growist™, a ValueSelling sub-brand empowering small businesses with proven sales frameworks. A former Gartner executive, Julie’s long-standing industry leadership has earned ValueSelling top awards as a pre-eminent provider of sales training. Her latest book is The Power of Value Selling: The Gold Standard to Drive Revenue and Create Customers for Life. Want to explore the research behind the conversation? Read ValueSelling Associates’ Cutting Through the Noise report for a closer look at what’s working in prospecting today. 📌 https://www.valueselling.com/research-ebooks/the-most-effective-sales-prospecting-tactics-in-the-ai-era

    Building Trust in Sales in the Age of AI | Julie Thomas

  6. Sep 25

    AI in Sales, Sales Tools & Timeless Fundamentals | 3 Questions with Dave Kurlan

    Where does AI actually add value in sales, and which fundamentals still matter no matter how much technology changes? Dave Kurlan joins Paul Fuller for 3 Questions from The Art & Science of Complex Sales to share his perspective on AI in sales, the tools he relies on, and the fundamentals that continue to drive strong sales performance. Dave explains why AI is most useful for research and efficiency rather than replacing the salesperson, why prospecting and a clear sales process still matter, and why consultative selling is becoming even more important. The conversation also explores how AI can support sales management and why practicing the fundamentals can still give salespeople an advantage. Chapters: 00:00 Introduction01:22 Where AI is best used in sales03:22 The sales tool Dave could not do without04:43 Using AI to improve sales efficiency05:38 Why prospecting and sales process still matter06:00 Why consultative selling matters more than ever07:37 How to connect with Dave Kurlan About Dave Kurlan: Dave Kurlan is a top-rated speaker, best selling author, radio show host, successful entrepreneur and sales development industry pioneer. He was inducted into the Sales & Marketing Hall of Fame in 2012.Dave was the founder and CEO of Objective Management Group, Inc. (OMG), the industry leader in sales assessments and sales team evaluations and named the Top Sales Assessment Tool 11 times. Dave is currently the CEO of Kurlan & Associates, Inc., an international sales consulting firm he founded in 1986, specializing in sales team development. He possesses 40 years of experience in all facets of sales development, including consulting, training, coaching, recruiting, systems, processes, and metrics. Dave has been a top-rated speaker at Inc. Magazine’s Conference on Growing the Company, the Sales & Marketing Management Conference, the Sales 2.0 Conference, Inbound, and the Gazelles/Fortune Sales & Marketing Summit. He has been the focus of dozens of interviews online, on radio, television and in print, including World Business Review, Inc. Magazine, Selling Power Magazine, Sales & Marketing Management Magazine and Incentive Magazine. Dave has been a columnist at Top Sales Magazine since 2011. He is the author of Mindless Selling and the best-seller, Baseline Selling – How to Become a Sales Superstar by Using What You Already Know about the Game of Baseball. He created and wrote STAR, a proprietary recruiting process for hiring great salespeople, and he writes Understanding the Sales Force, voted the Top Sales & Marketing Blog 13 times. He is a contributing author to 4 other books including Stepping Stones, with coauthors Deepak Chopra and Jack Canfield. Dave is an innovator, and most recently co-created an AI assisted tool that provides salespeople and sales managers with powerful, relevant and helpful sales coaching debriefs from call recordings and/or transcripts.

    AI in Sales, Sales Tools & Timeless Fundamentals | 3 Questions with Dave Kurlan

  7. Sep 17

    How to Win More Sales on Purpose | Jeff Bajorek

    Why do some sales teams win consistently while others seem to rely on timing, experience, and luck? Jeff Bajorek, Owner at Parabola Consulting, joins Paul Fuller to explore why sales teams need to understand what actually drives their success. Jeff explains how to identify the habits behind top performance, understand why your best customers choose you, and turn those insights into repeatable behaviors that help teams win more intentionally. The conversation also covers why doing more is no longer enough, why principles matter more than constantly changing tactics, and how customer insight can help teams become more specific about what actually works. Chapters 00:00 Introduction03:09 How Jeff got into sales07:32 Why mentorship matters in sales23:07 Why sales teams need to know why they win25:14 Making successful sales behaviors repeatable28:30 Turning top-performer habits into a process30:52 Why sales tactics come and go37:09 Why your best customers can tell you why you win38:18 How to win more sales on purpose

    How to Win More Sales on Purpose | Jeff Bajorek

  8. Sep 4

    How to Build a Repeatable Sales Process That Scales | Vic Ing

    What happens when your sales approach works for you, but nobody else can replicate it? Vic Ing, founder of Viking Sales Consultants, explores why scaling B2B sales requires moving beyond instinct and building a repeatable sales process. He shares how to identify which sales habits actually work, use your ideal customer profile to qualify more effectively, and stop holding onto opportunities that are not a good fit. The conversation also explores why founders need to turn what they know intuitively into a sales process that gives others a better chance to succeed. Chapters 00:00 Introduction01:31 Vic Ing’s journey into sales07:23 Learning sales through success and failure08:19 How to reverse engineer what actually works in sales18:19 Why every business needs an ideal customer profile20:53 Why good qualification means saying no25:10 Why a better sales system beats individual talent28:17 Why founders struggle to scale sales30:26 Turning founder instinct into a repeatable sales process - About Vic Ing: Vic Ing is a business consultant, sales trainer, author, and founder of Viking Sales Consultants. For more than thirty years, he has built, led, and supported revenue-generating teams in a variety of sales, leadership, and business development roles, and through Viking Sales Consultants has helped entrepreneurs, business owners, and sales professionals improve business development, strengthen customer relationships, and create sustainable growth. He is the author of Selling Is Easy (If You Know the Rules) and has facilitated hundreds of workshops, coaching engagements, and strategic planning sessions throughout Northeast Ohio. Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/victoring/ Link to book: https://a.co/d/03KMZqH8

    How to Build a Repeatable Sales Process That Scales | Vic Ing
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The Art & Science of Complex Sales brings together B2B sales experts to explore the strategies, challenges, and ideas shaping complex sales today. From sales leadership and prospecting to coaching, AI, buyer behavior, and performance, each episode offers practical perspectives for building stronger sales organizations.

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