Most Podern Podcast

Minkoo Kang, Libo Li, and Alex Yuen
  • 5.0 (9)
  • Design
  • Updated Weekly

The podcast about the Built Environment, with the minds shaping it, for the people living in it. Why does the built environment feel broken — and what would it take to fix it? Most Podern is about how the built world really works. We dig into the systems shaping architecture, urbanism, housing, and public spaces, and talk with the people actually building change: architects, planners, developers, and urban thinkers.

  1. Sep 23

    Affordability Is Not a Dirty Word - Building Housing People Can Actually Afford | Jesse Batus

    "Everybody says we want more affordable housing... at the same time, they don't want to see anything new." On this episode of Most Modern - a podcast about the built environment - Alex talks with Jesse Batus, Senior Vice President of Real Estate Development at The Community Builders (TCB), one of the largest nonprofit developers in the country, building across 15 states and Washington, DC. We get past the buzzword and into the machinery: the real definition of affordability (no more than 30% of income), why construction now runs "upwards of $500,000 per unit," how NIMBYism and delay quietly drive up costs, and why "time kills all deals." Jesse walks through the ground game - from a food-desert grocery store and hundreds of new apartments in Schenectady's Hamilton Hill, to the desegregation history behind Yonkers, to transit-oriented projects like Park Haven in the Bronx (with BronxWorks and a FRESH grocery store) and a childcare-anchored development in Far Rockaway. We also cover the plumbing nobody sees: the 10-11 layer capital stacks behind a single deal, the Low-Income Housing Tax Credit, the starvation of public housing, resilient design in a flood zone, and why good affordable housing should be indistinguishable from market-rate. The throughline: housing is the platform everything else - childcare, school, work, stability - is built on. Chapters: 00:00 - "Affordability is not a dirty word" 00:14 - Who is TCB, and what does a nonprofit developer do? 02:02 - What "affordability" actually means (the 30% rule vs. the human version) 04:49 - Affordability = stability: staying in your school district, near work 05:32 - The headwinds: construction costs, inflation, interest rates, NIMBYism 07:00 - "City of Yes" and unlocking supply through zoning 08:11 - How delay and sentiment get baked into the final cost per unit 10:55 - Turning detractors into participants: the Yonkers "Show Me a Hero" story 14:32 - Building on the edges: Park Haven (Mott Haven, Bronx) and Far Rockaway 17:46 - Where affordable housing belongs: transit-oriented development 18:43 - Build everywhere, or build thoughtfully? The abundance question 21:01 - Why a unit costs $500,000: land, electrification, prevailing wage 22:58 - The 10-11 source capital stack and the LIHTC explained 26:20 - Why affordable housing is so hard to create, in four forces 26:43 - Public housing, HOPE VI, NYCHA and the PACT program 30:39 - Design: what should affordable housing look like? 32:44 - Resiliency, healthy materials, and the "wow factor" 34:27 - TCB's "secret sauce": the Community Life department 36:31 - The future: from NIMBY to YIMBY, and "a rising tide lifts all boats" Key takeaways: - "Affordability" has a technical definition (30% of income) and a human one - groceries, a modest vacation, better schools for your kids. - Housing is the platform - stability, childcare, and proximity to work all flow from it. - Cost, not intent, is the hardest constraint: ~$500K/unit in dense, electrified, high-code markets like NYC. - Time kills deals - delay and duplicative studies compound into real dollars. - Good affordable housing should be seamless with market-rate. People should be proud to live there. About the guest: Jesse Batus is Senior Vice President of Real Estate Development (NY & NJ) at The Community Builders, where he has worked since 2007. Web: https://tcbinc.org/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jesse-batus-766739b/ About the show: Most Modern is a podcast about the built environment - the people, economics, and design shaping how and where we live. #AffordableHousing #BuiltEnvironment #RealEstateDevelopment #Housing #UrbanPlanning #YIMBY #Architecture

    Affordability Is Not a Dirty Word - Building Housing People Can Actually Afford | Jesse Batus

  2. Aug 6

    3 Building Code Rules That Block Missing Middle Housing

    Small multifamily housing is illegal and too expensive to build. Architect Sam Naylor breaks down the building code reforms that could unlock the "missing middle." We know zoning blocks housing. The quieter, equally powerful force is the building code. the invisible rulebook on stairs, sprinklers, and elevators that almost nobody outside the trade ever reads. When a project crosses from two units to three, it leaves the residential code and enters the "commercial" code, where a triple decker answers to nearly the same rules as a skyscraper. Sam Naylor, co-founder of the design firm Nominal, practicing architect, and adjunct faculty at the University of Minnesota, returns to walk through his new report with Boston Indicators (with support from the Harvard Joint Center for Housing Studies). It's a working map of why three-to-twenty-four-unit buildings stopped getting built, and a menu of fixes. What you'll get: Who this is for: architects, planners, housing advocates, and small developers who keep running into the same invisible wall and want to know where to push. Chapters:00:00 - Meet Sam Naylor and His Code Report00:59 - What "Small Multifamily" Really Means03:14 - Building Code vs. Zoning Code06:00 - The Sprinkler Requirement Problem08:12 - How America Ended Up With Two Codes13:01 - Missing Middle: Everyone's Missing16:05 - Why We Only Build Five-Over-Ones18:08 - The One-Third Cost Jump21:32 - Code Hacking Around the Rules24:17 - Syncing Zoning and Building Code29:12 - Digging Out: Sprinklers and Elevators39:51 - A Vision for Shorter, Denser Cities Resources:

    3 Building Code Rules That Block Missing Middle Housing

  3. Jul 23

    Why Los Angeles Urban Development Is Built Backwards

    Los Angeles urban development faces severe housing scarcity and bureaucratic strain while pioneering polycentric node architecture across 88 cities.Los Angeles attracts creative talent with its promise of personal reinvention, yet physical boundaries and rigid municipal codes hold its built environment static. Developers face multi-year entitlement delays and fractured county leadership while trying to expand housing and fortify against rising wildfire risks. Resolving this urban dilemma requires moving past single-family sprawl toward large-scale destination planning.Architect Alex Yuen and co-host Libo Li examine the physical and administrative friction blocking Los Angeles urban development with guest Sam Pepper, principal at Padaro Development Group and host of the Building LA podcast. Designed for practicing architects and architecture students, this episode evaluates how LA can transition from car-centric sprawl into a network of high-density destination nodes.### Key Takeaways* Spanish-style courtyard apartments and bungalow courts offer manageable middle-scale density without destroying single-family neighborhood character.* Administrative fragmentation across 88 distinct cities in LA County creates conflicting zoning interpretations that stall entitlement processes for years.* Los Angeles operates as a coarse-grained polycentric matrix where real estate value concentrates in destination nodes rather than continuous walkable streets.* Cohesive commercial nodes require single-developer anchors or unified property ownership, whereas fragmented parcel ownership leads to retail corridor decay.* Building along urban-wildland interfaces requires structural fortification against inevitable wildfire threats rather than attempting complete hazard elimination.### Who This Is ForArchitects, urban planners, real estate developers, and architecture students analyzing municipal housing policy, polycentric master planning, and climate-resilient design.### Episode Chapters00:00 - Why Los Angeles Resists Transformation01:03 - From London Architecture to LA Development04:53 - Hollywood Cachet and South Bay Aerospace07:43 - Physical Constraints and Byzantine Bureaucracy12:38 - County Governance and 88 Competing Cities18:11 - Managing Encampments and Wildfire Threats19:55 - Courtyard Apartments and Manageable Density22:38 - Polycentric Nodes Versus Jane Jacobs Walks27:27 - Single-Developer Anchors and Asian Urbanism33:21 - Personal Expression and High-Wire Nature40:41 - Padaro Group's Destination Development Model44:47 - Optimism for Los Angeles's Urban Future ### Resources Mentioned * [Sam Pepper](https://www.linkedin.com/in/samhpepper/) * [Building LA Podcast](https://www.buildinglapodcast.com/) * [Padaro Development Group](https://www.padarodevelopment.com/) * [Norman Foster's Gherkin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gherkin) * [Lincoln Property Company](https://lpc.com/) * [The Grove](https://thegrovela.com/) * [The Row DTLA](https://www.rowdtla.com/) * [Larchmont Boulevard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larchmont,_Los_Angeles) * [Third Street Promenade](Third Street Promenade) * [Hudson Yards](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudson_Yards,_Manhattan) ### Subscribe & Connect Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/3zYvX2lRZOpHcZW41WGVrp Apple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/most-podern-podcast/id1725756164 Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@MostPodern Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/most.podern LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/most-podern #LAArchitecture #UrbanDevelopment #MostPodern #UrbanPlanning #HousingDensity

    Why Los Angeles Urban Development Is Built Backwards

  4. May 27

    How FutureLot Is Decoding the American Zoning Maze

    Zoning codes run to 3,000 pages, contradict themselves, and change without warning — and right now, they're the single biggest reason most housing projects never leave a napkin. Recorded live at World of Modular 2026, this episode brings in Avi Kaufman, co-founder and Chief Real Estate Officer of FutureLot, to unpack what it actually takes to answer "what can I build here?" across 30,000 US jurisdictions. Avi started with a light-bulb moment during refugee resettlement — a carriage house behind a main house, housing a family no one knew could be housed there — and built a platform to make that question answerable at scale. **What we get into:** - The pre-feasibility gap: more housing projects die from discouragement than from bad economics — nobody's counting the permits never filed - Massachusetts alone has 200+ definitions of "gross floor area." Multiply that across 30,000 jurisdictions and you understand why builders stall - FutureLot's traffic-light system (green/yellow) tells builders whether a project clears each zoning criterion before a dollar goes to plans - Why the homeowner-builder conversation is broken — and how a shared interface changes "let me drive by" into a real-time answer at any US address - The tension between local zoning control and the tyranny of whoever has time to show up to meetings - What a customer who lives in the tool 4–5 hours a day looks like — and why that feedback loop is the product **Chapters:** - 00:00 — Intro: What FutureLot does - 00:50 — Origin story: Afghanistan, carriage houses, and untapped housing potential - 02:01 — Why zoning data, not building? - 03:35 — What real estate taught Avi: visuals and ease of use aren't nice-to-haves - 04:30 — Product walkthrough: the builder experience - 07:14 — The homeowner interface and what 8 minutes of dwell time means - 09:10 — Connector, not replacement: the role of FutureLot in the stack - 10:38 — 30,000 jurisdictions and the data complexity behind one screen - 12:11 — Two years in: the regulatory maze is worse than you think - 14:00 — Should we standardize zoning? The tension between local control and paralysis - 15:19 — AI + human review: how the sauce gets made - 16:28 — Trust mechanisms: overrides, alarms, source citations - 18:42 — The customer as collaborator: ground truth flows both ways - 20:30 — Roadmap: 50-state coverage, multifamily, lot splits - 21:07 — The inflection point: why now feels different - 22:18 — Find FutureLot **Find FutureLot:** - [futurelot.com](https://futurelot.com) — free account, 3 property searches - [avi@futurelot.com](mailto:avi@futurelot.com) - [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/@FutureLot) - [Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/tryfuturelot) - [LinkedIn](https://www.linkedin.com/company/futurelot) - [X / Twitter](https://x.com/futurelot) - [Facebook](https://www.facebook.com/futurelot/) **Most Podern:** - [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/show/3zYvX2lRZOpHcZW41WGVrp) - [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/most-podern-podcast/id1725756164) - [Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/most.podern) - [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/@MostPodern)

    How FutureLot Is Decoding the American Zoning Maze

  5. May 20

    This Is Quietly Reshaping How We Build Homes - Dwayne Torrey

    The housing crisis is real. So why isn't modular construction fixing it? Dwayne Torrey is the Director of Construction and Infrastructure at CSA Group — the organization that writes the standards every builder, regulator, and manufacturer in Canada has to follow. He's been working at the intersection of modular construction and policy for seven years, and his answer might surprise you: the technology isn't the problem. The rulebook is. In this episode we get into how consensus standards actually get written, who's fighting in the room when they do, and why a 1972 document about school portables is still shaping how Canada builds homes today. 🔗 CSA Group: https://www.csagroup.org/ CHAPTERS 0:00 Intro1:20 What is CSA Group?3:45 Standards vs. regulation — what's the difference?6:30 Who sits in the room when the rules get written10:00 The modular construction problem nobody talks about14:15 CSA A277 — the standard that's been around since 197218:00 What the new structural design standard actually covers22:30 Certification — what it means and why it matters27:00 Why building officials are nervous about modular31:00 The education gap — who needs to learn what35:30 "Inflection point" — what this moment means for housing #modular #housingcrisis #construction

    This Is Quietly Reshaping How We Build Homes - Dwayne Torrey

  6. May 13

    Architecture Off the Assembly Line - with Justin Brechtel

    What happens when an architect stops designing one-off buildings and starts designing a system? Justin Brechtel is a licensed architect in California, principal of Iterate Architecture, and VP of Architecture at West Modular — and he's making the case that the way we deliver buildings is broken. Architects have spent decades reinventing the wheel on every project, slowly ceding their leadership role to developers and contractors. Justin's answer: treat architecture like a product. Build the bones once. Refine them like an iPhone. In this episode we get into what it actually looks like to embed architects on a factory floor, why talking to a modular manufacturer early can save your entire project, and why "slow is responsible" has quietly become one of the most expensive ideas in American cities. Links: Website: www.iterae.com Instagram: @iteraearchitecture https://www.westmodular.com/

    Architecture Off the Assembly Line - with Justin Brechtel

  7. May 7

    What's Your Density Appetite?

    Have you ever walked through a city and felt, almost physically, that it was too much or not enough? That feeling has a name. Alex Yuen, architect, urbanist, and host of Most Podern, calls it density appetite and it might be the most fundamental idea in urbanism that no one is talking about. From the way Tokyo reinvents itself decade after decade to the way San Francisco has quietly frozen itself in place, the cities we live in are a direct reflection of how much growth we're actually willing to stomach. This conversation unpacks how density works not just as a planning metric but as a deeply personal, political, and cultural force, one that shapes your rent, your commute, your neighborhood, and your quality of life. Whether you're a lifelong city dweller or someone who just moved out to the suburbs, you probably already have a density appetite. You just didn't know what to call it. Read the original essay that sparked the conversation on Alex's Substack, Dust to Density: https://www.dusttodensity.com/p/density-appetite Subscribe to Most Podern on: Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/3zYvX2lRZOpHcZW41WGVrpApple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/most-podern-podcast/id1725756164Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@MostPodernInstagram - https://www.instagram.com/most.podernLinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/most-podern Keywords density, urban density, density appetite, city planning, housing policy, housing crisis, urbanism, urban design, NIMBY, NIMBYism, urban growth, zoning, ADU, accessory dwelling units, urban metabolism, Tokyo housing, San Francisco housing, Los Angeles housing, built environment, walkability, public transit, housing affordability, mixed-use development, floor area ratio, FAR, population density, city development, city life, suburb vs city, urban planning podcast, urban culture Chapters 00:00 Understanding Density Appetite03:02 Density in Urban Environments07:07 Comparing Density Appetite Across Regions10:12 California's Evolving Density Policies11:34 Metabolism of Urban Density14:48 Challenges of Density in American Cities18:27 Cultural Influences on Density Appetite19:33 Cultural Perspectives on Public Spaces21:24 Understanding Urban Density and Infrastructure23:38 The Complexity of Density Appetite25:39 Leadership in Urban Planning27:36 The Role of Architects in Politics28:24 Personal Experiences with Density32:14 Future Directions in Urban Density Discussions

    What's Your Density Appetite?

  8. Feb 25

    Why the Future Is Physical: Real Estate, Loneliness & The Playbook Behind AREA15’s Success

    If your city, office, or retail district feels emptier than it used to, it’s not just “remote work” or “online shopping.” It’s a deeper problem: digital convenience is quietly fueling loneliness—and the built environment is being forced to evolve. Winston Fisher argues the next era isn’t virtual-first…it’s a renewed fight for real-world connection. Winston (Managing Partner at Fisher Brothers, CEO of AREA15) breaks down why the future is physical—and what developers, operators, and city leaders get wrong when they treat real estate like a spreadsheet instead of a living platform. You’ll hear how AREA15 was designed as “real estate as content,” why programming is the true moat, and how brand + technology + operations can turn a space into an “always-on” destination. He also goes deep on authenticity, uncompromising standards, and why playing it safe is the real risk. https://www.fisherbrothers.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/winstonfisher/ https://area15.com/ Chapters00:00 – Programming as the Cure for Loneliness00:28 – Why the Built Environment Matters More Than 20 Years Ago01:56 – The “Future Is Physical” Moment (and Why Zoom Isn’t Enough)03:54 – Physical + Digital: The Overlay That Actually Works04:41 – “Real Estate as Content”: What Great Space Feels Like06:17 – Profit vs. Purpose: The Honest Economics of Real Estate08:47 – How Developers Decide the “Qualitative” Choices10:28 – Inside AREA15: The Original Bet and the Creative Thesis12:24 – The 30-Acre Campus: Art-Forward Entertainment as a New Category13:16 – Concrete Examples: Meow Wolf, John Wick, Barbie Cafe + More14:23 – The Big Surprise: Scale, Stitching, and Diversified Entertainment15:47 – Why Programming Became the Secret Weapon17:08 – Owner-Operator Advantage: Owning the Guest Journey18:15 – Brand as Real Estate’s Hidden Multiplier19:39 – From Box to Platform: Tech + Ops + Real Estate Working Together22:18 – Taking the Model to Other Cities (and What Must Change)24:18 – Why Being a Conformist Is the Real Risk29:28 – Authenticity Is Hard: The Internal Fight Against “Shortcuts”32:21 – Can AREA15 Work Outside Vegas (or Go Vertical in Manhattan)?37:10 – Fixing Downtowns: Cities Need a Vision Big Enough to Anchor41:09 – 30 Years From Now: A Healthier Relationship With Technology44:13 – The Algorithm of Humanity: Why Live Experiences Will Surge46:13 – Where to Find Winston + AREA15

    Why the Future Is Physical: Real Estate, Loneliness & The Playbook Behind AREA15’s Success
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Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
9 Ratings

About

The podcast about the Built Environment, with the minds shaping it, for the people living in it. Why does the built environment feel broken — and what would it take to fix it? Most Podern is about how the built world really works. We dig into the systems shaping architecture, urbanism, housing, and public spaces, and talk with the people actually building change: architects, planners, developers, and urban thinkers.

Information

  • Creator
    Minkoo Kang, Libo Li, and Alex Yuen
  • Years Active
    2024 - 2026
  • Episodes
    85
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © Minkoo Kang, Libo Li, and Alex Yuen
  • Show Website
    Most Podern Podcast

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