Systematic Selling Podcast

Sean M. Lyden

A podcast for founders and owners ready to squeeze the stress out of sales and build a business they love. www.systematicselling.co

  1. Aug 14

    🎙️E32: Building a Sales Team That Makes Your Business More Valuable—With Jackie Hirsch

    Today’s episode is for you if: * Revenue slows down whenever you step away from selling. * Your sales process—and too many customer relationships—still live in your head. * You worry that your company’s dependence on you could limit its growth and eventual value. A business can generate substantial revenue and still be difficult to sell. Why? Because if the owner is the sales team—holding the customer relationships, controlling the information and closing the important deals—a buyer has to wonder: Will the revenue transfer when the owner leaves? That was the focus of my recent conversation with Jackie Hirsch of Crown Atlantic Business Brokers. We discussed how owners can build a sales team without losing control—and how the right people, processes and systems can make a business considerably more valuable. Here are the eight most actionable takeaways. 1. Build the System Before You Delegate the Responsibility Owners are often labeled “control freaks” when they struggle to delegate. But Jackie sees a different problem: Most owners have never been taught how to break down a function, communicate it clearly and create a repeatable system someone else can execute. [Watch this section: 02:11] 2. Protect the Customer Data (Without Hoarding the Relationships) Giving employees access to customer relationships introduces legitimate risk. But keeping every relationship tied to the owner creates a different—and potentially larger—risk. The answer isn’t to completely withhold access but to create guardrails. Keep customer information inside a company-controlled CRM. Document every meaningful interaction. Establish appropriate agreements. Then hire people with high character and train them to represent the company well. [Watch this section: 04:08] 3. Smooth the Transition Through the Three Stages of Sales At Systematic Selling, we work with SMB founders on smoothing their transition through three stages: * Founder-led sales: The founder is the primary rainmaker. * Founder-managed sales: The founder has a sales team but still operates as the player-coach or de facto sales leader. * Professionalized sales team: The company has a sales leader, trained sellers and repeatable systems that operate without the founder’s daily involvement. The goal is to progressively transfer knowledge, relationships and responsibility until sales becomes a self-sustaining capability, not an owner dependency. [Watch this section: 06:08] 4. Build Your Sales Team Around the 3Cs Our conversation surfaced three factors that help owners build and retain an elite sales team: * Character: Hire for character, then train for success. * Compensation: Create a competitive, generous and crystal-clear compensation plan. * Culture: Build an environment where talented people feel valued and want to stay. [Watch this section: 11:00] 5. Mine the Gold Already Sitting in Your CRM One company Jackie worked with had decades of past customers but had never systematically contacted them again. The new owners’ initial growth strategy was simple: Reach back out to the existing customer list. That database produced new opportunities because the customers’ needs had returned, changed or expanded. Too many companies treat customers as transactions moving through a funnel. Once the transaction ends, communication stops. But customers don’t disappear after the sale. They remain in your orbit. (See: 043: Stop Selling Through a Funnel. Start Expanding Your Orbit) Continue building trust, staying visible and creating opportunities for repeat purchases and referrals. [Watch this section: 16:49] 6. Understand How Sales Systems Affect Valuation Jackie shared two examples that illustrated how dramatically transferable systems and recurring revenue can affect a company’s valuation. One business sold for approximately four times EBITDA. Another—with recurring revenue and consistent year-over-year growth—sold for approximately eight times EBITDA. That doesn’t mean sales systems alone automatically double a company’s multiple. Many factors affect valuation. But it demonstrates the central principle: Buyers pay more for revenue they believe will continue without the current owner. [Watch this section: 25:30] 7. Start Preparing Before You’re Ready to Exit Jackie recommends that owners begin thinking seriously about their exit while they still have enough time and energy to strengthen performance, develop the team and participate in a thoughtful transition. Even if you don’t plan to sell for five, 10 or 15 years, build the company today so someone else could eventually step in. [Watch this section: 32:12] 8. Remember: Buyers Must Sell Themselves, Too A buyer may think the highest offer automatically wins. It doesn’t. Sellers frequently care about what will happen to their employees, customers and legacy after the transaction. Jackie shared an example of a buyer who defeated several full-price offers—including an all-cash offer—because he understood the industry, knew the customers, lived near the company and gave the seller confidence that he could take care of the team. The buyer understood something essential: Buying a business is still a sales process. The buyer must understand what matters to the seller and demonstrate alignment with those interests. [Watch this section: 43:52] The Bottom Line If your business still depends on you to generate the revenue, hold the relationships and direct every sales activity, don’t wait until you’re preparing to sell to address it. Build the systems now. Develop the team now. Transfer the relationships now. Because the sales organization you build today won’t just determine how fast (and sustainably) your company grows. It also determines what your company is worth. Sean M. Lyden is the founder and CEO of Systematic Selling, a sales systems training company for growth-minded founders and their sales teams looking to scale their sales (without the chaos). Get full access to Systematic Selling Newsletter at www.systematicselling.co/subscribe

    🎙️E32: Building a Sales Team That Makes Your Business More Valuable—With Jackie Hirsch
  2. Jul 16

    🎙️E31: The 14 Things to Do the Moment You Win the Work (Or Lose It)

    Today’s episode is for you if: * Your sales pipeline depends too much on finding the next customer. * You aren’t getting as many referrals or repeat sales as you should. * You've been blindsided by losing a customer you thought would never leave. Most sales conversations obsess over how to get the deal. Fewer talk about what happens the day after you sign it. That’s a problem, because that’s the part that determines whether you keep the client for one project or for ten years. David Roy and I spent our Substack Live conversation today on exactly that gap. We didn’t focus on theory but on the actual mechanics of what to do once you’re in the door...or when the door closes. Here are the most actionable moves we covered. Onboarding & Kickoff * Run a “Pre-Kick-Off Huddle” 3–7 days before any engagement starts. Walk through logistics and other action items to set up the Kick-Off—and the entire project—for success. * Get an introduction to the AP/accounts payable contact during onboarding. Don’t wait until an invoice is late to meet them. It builds a second relationship and takes payment friction off your primary contact’s plate. Proving Value On a Cadence * Set a recurring check-in cadence (weekly, biweekly, or monthly) specifically to show the customer what’s improved. Don’t assume they’re tracking it themselves. * Measure a baseline before you start (revenue, cost, whatever the relevant KPI is) so improvement is a number you can show, not a feeling you’re hoping they share. Protecting the Account * Build a simple color-coded budget/risk sheet for high-value clients. (This is especially valuable for commercial service companies.) Flag what needs attention soon (yellow) vs. now (red), with rough budget ranges. It positions you as protecting their blind side, not being pushy. * Learn each client’s budget cycle (not everyone runs January–December) so you’re recommending replacements or upgrades when there’s actually money to spend. * Build relationships with multiple people inside the account…not just the decision-maker, but the day-to-day user, the influencer, the assistant. This way, if your main contact leaves, you’re not starting from zero. Getting In / Staying In * Offer to be the “911 provider” for accounts that already have an incumbent. Even if you never win the whole account, being the emergency backup gets your foot in the door. * Keep a prospecting pipeline going even when you’re slammed. Never let your business development activity hit zero. Consistent BD protects you when an account changes hands or disappears overnight. * “Win” even with 2nd/3rd place finishes in RFPs. Staying visible and top-of-mind after a loss is often how you win the account later. Drawing Out Honest Feedback * Let upset customers vent without getting defensive. Resolving a real complaint well often builds more trust than if nothing had gone wrong. * Reframe feedback requests as aspirational. Ask: “How can we take this to the next level?” Not: “What needs improvement?” You’re asking the same question, but people open up more when they don’t feel like they’re being negative. Long-Term Account Health * Classify every account using the 4-Farmland Matrix (4FM)—new (farmland), underdeveloped, neglected, or lost. Each type calls for a different next move, whether that’s pursue, expand, staff up, or re-engage. * Don’t give up on lost accounts. Stay visible enough that when the new provider drops the ball, you’re the obvious call back. If you want the full context behind each of these — the stories, the numbers, and a couple we didn’t have room for here — the full Live conversation is where we actually walk through it. Get full access to Systematic Selling Newsletter at www.systematicselling.co/subscribe

    🎙️E31: The 14 Things to Do the Moment You Win the Work (Or Lose It)
  3. 10/17/2025

    🎙️E30: 4 Techniques to Crush Your Close Rate (Without High-Pressure Tactics)

    Tired of getting ghosted after sending a proposal? In this live talk from the East Orlando Chamber’s Merchant Monday, Sean Lyden breaks down his four-part framework for closing more sales the systematic way. Learn how to pre-sell the budget, review scope live, create clear next steps, and use the L-A-P Method to clarify objections—all while keeping pressure low and trust high. By the end of this episode, you’ll know how to: - Handle pricing conversations early without losing credibility - Set clear next steps that prevent prospects from ghosting - Build buyer confidence without coming across as pushy - Use the L-A-P Method (Label, Ask, Propose) to clarify objections - Create alignment between your solution and the buyer’s problem. Episode Timestamps 00:00 — Intro & why prospects ghost05:45 — The 4 techniques that reduce ghosting07:00 — The Budget Pre-Sale09:00 — The Scope Review Call11:00 — The Clear Close15:00 — The L-A-P Method for Objections19:00 — Sales as alignment, not persuasion20:30 — Q&A: handling pricing pushback24:00 — Q&A: how to balance giving clients space without losing momentum26:00 — Q&A: dealing with tech overwhelm and customer resistance29:00 — Q&A: reading body language and addressing hidden hesitation31:00 — Q&A: re-engaging ghosted prospects33:00 — The importance of tone, confidence, and terminology34:00 — “Never awaken the lizard brain” — how language affects buying behavior. Get bite-sized, high-impact sales systems training delivered to your inbox: SystematicSelling.co Get full access to Systematic Selling Newsletter at www.systematicselling.co/subscribe

  4. 05/09/2025

    🎙️E28: How to Scale a Home Services Business with Partnerships & Service | Shea Sen

    Today, we have Shea Sen on the Systematic Selling Podcast. He is the founder and chief service officer of Silver Lining Home Services, based in Orlando, Florida. Founded in 2020, Silver Linings provides comprehensive moving, junk removal, move-out cleaning, and senior move management services, with a focus on easing real estate transitions for homeowners and seniors. Shea, a former Air Force pilot with decades of experience in sales, business development, and entrepreneurship, shares his journey from launching a lawn care business in high school to building a high-end audio retail empire and eventually founding Silver Lining. Shea’s business philosophy centers on serving clients by solving their problems through strategic partnerships and a servant-leadership mindset. He discusses how he leverages relationships with realtors, property managers, and senior living communities to drive referrals, the importance of emotional intelligence in serving senior clients, and how he fosters a culture that encourages team members to grow—even if it means starting their own businesses. This episode is packed with insights for entrepreneurs, sales professionals, and home service business owners looking to scale through partnerships, prioritize service, and build a lasting legacy. So, without further ado, get ready for Episode 28 of the Systematic Selling Podcast! Subscribe for more insights 👉 https://www.systematicselling.co/podcast This episode is a must-listen for entrepreneurs and sales professionals in the home services industry or any sector reliant on trust and relationships. Shea Sen’s story illustrates how a service-first mindset, strategic partnerships, and a commitment to team development can transform a business. Whether you’re looking to scale through referrals, serve a niche market, or build a culture that inspires growth, Shea’s insights provide a roadmap for success. Tune in to learn how to sell by serving and create a lasting impact in your industry. Get full access to Systematic Selling Newsletter at www.systematicselling.co/subscribe

  5. 03/07/2025

    🎙️E27: 'Sink or Swim' is Not a Strategy

    Today’s episode is for you if you’re experiencing these problems: * New sales hires take too long to ramp up—or don’t stick around. * Your onboarding process is a mess—or nonexistent. * Your sales culture isn’t inspiring loyalty. New to Systematic Selling? * Subscribe for free to receive bite-sized, high-impact sales systems training delivered to your inbox each week. * Upgrade to Paid for the full experience, including access to the entire archives and premium-only sales training content, for a Venti Latte ☕️ per month. Today, on Episode 27 of the Systematic Selling Podcast… My talk on “‘Sink or Swim’ is Not a Strategy: 7 Steps to Set Up Your Reps for Success” Sales turnover is brutal—especially for small businesses. It’s expensive, disruptive, and demoralizing. And if you’ve ever felt the pain of losing a key sales rep, struggling to fill the role, and dealing with a drop in revenue in the meantime, you’re not alone. Consider these statistics: * 35% - Average sales turnover rate—more than twice as high as any other role * 47% - Sales reps who leave citing poor onboarding and training * 200% - Estimated percentage of a sales rep's salary it costs to replace them * 44% - Sales reps planning to leave their job within two years * 10+ months - Time it typically takes for a new sales rep to become fully productive * 18 months - Average tenure of a sales rep. I've seen this play out countless times with companies. They invest considerable time and resources to hire a sales representative, only to see that person walk out the door within 18 months. This means you might only get eight months of true productivity after all that investment. So how do we break this cycle? I've developed a seven-step cycle to slow the churn and accelerate your organization’s transformation into an elite sales team. Let me walk you through it. Step 1: Define Ambitious and Attainable Targets (00:02:44) How many of you have left a strategic planning meeting thinking, "They're smoking crack—there's no way we're hitting those numbers"? The problem is that goals are often disconnected from reality, specifically from the true price tag of the strategy and resources needed to achieve them. This disconnect creates unrealistic targets that demoralize your sales team, leading to burnout, resentment, and eventually turnover. The key is to ground your goals in reality. Try this strategic planning agenda for sales: * Debrief: Determine your current state—revenue, gross profit, and margin. How do these numbers stack up historically? Any records set? How do revenue streams rank by percentage? Who are your top clients? * Forecast: What are your projected revenue, gross profit, and gross margin targets? What assumptions underlie these numbers? What quarterly milestones should you establish to track progress? * Strategy: Ask this money question: "Imagine 12 months from now, we've hit our forecast. What will we have done to make that happen?" This question taps into the persuasion principle of thinking past the sale, helping everyone visualize success. * Team: Assess your current sales team size and composition. What's your sales turnover rate? What are your team's most notable strengths? What skill gaps need to be filled to hit your forecast? Are you ready to hire more reps? * Resources: Does your team have the tools they need to succeed? Consider technology, marketing support, industry events, training, and coaching investments. Ask, “What haven't we considered that we should?” * Action: Define immediate steps, responsibilities, and deadlines. Schedule a follow-up meeting to maintain momentum—what I call the "this meeting, next meeting" principle. Never break the chain. The goal isn't ironclad targets but getting initial targets out of your head and into a discussion with your team to sanity-check them. Step 2: Audit Your Sales Systems (00:10:45) Once you've defined targets and set your strategy, identify vulnerabilities in your sales systems that could hinder you from hitting your mark. There are 10 integrated systems that drive sales success, and if any of them slow down or grind to a halt, your entire operation suffers. Step 3: Fix Your Broken Systems (00:12:22) After your systems audit, prioritize which issues would make the biggest immediate impact if addressed. You can't tackle everything at once, so focus on the critical few that will move the needle. Test the fix and then document it in your sales playbook. One of the biggest mistakes I see owners make is hiring a rep and expecting that person to solve all their sales problems. That's not how it works. Fix your sales systems first. Then hire more new reps to help you run and optimize those systems. Step 4: Hire the Right Fit (00:12:48) I recommend evaluating sales candidates through three lenses: Lens 1: Company Stage * Stage One: Founder-led sales * Stage Two: Founder-managed sales * Stage Three: Specialized roles (VP Sales, Sales Manager, SDR) Lens 2: Candidate Profile * Rookie: No bad habits, relatively inexpensive, but lacks experience * Emerging Star: Some experience but hasn't hit their prime * All-Star: Making bank where they are, which means you'll need to pay top dollar * Sunsetter: Looking for higher base compensation rather than commission upside (a red flag) Lens 3: Character The mantra I drill into my clients: Hire for character, train for success. If you get the character right—grit, emotional intelligence, work ethic—you can mold and shape them. But how do you get at the truth in interviews? Avoid standard questions like "What's your greatest weakness?" Instead, draw candidates out with scenario-based questions. For example, to assess integrity, ask: "Describe a situation where you had to deliver bad news to a customer. How did you handle it? What guided your approach?" Step 5: Formalize Your Onboarding and Training (00:18:00) Consider these statistics: * 10 weeks is the average training requirement for a newly hired sales rep. * Teams that invest in sales training are 57% more effective than those that don't. * And 94% of reps would stay longer if the business invested in their careers. Proper onboarding starts before day one. Prepare everything in advance and contact the new hire a day or two before they start with a warm welcome. This small act of kindness goes a long way. Then, make those sales reps feel like kings and queens in public. Announce them to your customer lists and on LinkedIn. Encourage team members to welcome them in the comments. This doesn't take much time but sets a powerful tone that says, "We value you." For training, I've identified 17 areas crucial for B2B sales reps, starting with your company's vision, mission, and values—why you exist, what's important to you as a company. Think of training delivery on three levels: * Classroom: Learn the concept * Application: Put the concept into action * Debrief: Provide feedback to make adjustments For rookies, think about where you can slot them in immediately to bring value. Could they start as sales support or an SDR, freeing up experienced reps to focus on closing? This approach allows them to bring immediate value while developing their skills. Step 6: Instill a Learning Culture (00:26:00) Create an environment of continuous improvement through: * Weekly tactical meetings * Book discussions * An on-site library * Access to online training * Reading trade media covering your customers' industries. Step 7: Coach for Ongoing Success (00:26:29) Training is not a set-it-and-forget-it program. Meet with your reps regularly and coach effectively during one-on-ones. I recommend a Socratic approach rather than being prescriptive. For example: When a rep asks, "What should I do about X?" resist the temptation to immediately say, "You should do Y and Z." Instead, ask, "What does your gut instinct tell you?" If their answer makes sense, say, "Sounds like you have your answer. What's holding you back?" If their answer is off course, don't say, "That's a stupid idea." Ask, "How do you see that playing out?" The Socratic approach guides them to discovery so they own the action they need to take. A typical coaching agenda I follow includes: * End Zone: Wins (debrief successes) * Red Zone: Pending proposals (getting deals over the line) * Pipeline: Prospects and discovery meetings * Prospecting: Lead generation * Conflict Resolution: Mismatched expectations, invoice disputes (00:28:00) The Vince Lombardi Example Vince Lombardi was hired by the Green Bay Packers in 1959 after they had suffered 10 straight losing seasons. In his first team meeting, he said, "I have never been on a losing team, gentlemen, and I do not intend to start now." Unlike today's NFL, Lombardi couldn't easily change players through free agency and trades. He had to work with the "losers" he inherited. Yet he turned them into winners, leading the Packers to five NFL championships, including the first two Super Bowls. That team of "losers" would produce nine NFL Hall of Famers. As Packers.com described it, "Lombardi immediately changed the way the team looked, the way it played, and especially how it thought." I share this story because it demonstrates how just one person can transform the culture and performance of an entire team. No matter how long you've been in your role or how well your sales team performs, you can flip the switch to transform your sales team into a finely tuned, high-performance machine. My Challenge to You In Atomic Habits, author James Clear says it best: “You do not rise to the level of your goals. You fall to the level of your systems.” So, follow the 7-step cycle to build your sales systems that rise to the level of your highest ambitions 👊 Listen to Episode 27 for the full breakdown. Our Book is Now on Audible👇 Today’s episode is brought to you by our new book, Collaboration Effect on Profit: Overcoming Founder’s Syndrome to Achi

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A podcast for founders and owners ready to squeeze the stress out of sales and build a business they love. www.systematicselling.co