BPM360 Podcast - Covering Every Angle

Russell Gomersall & Caspar Jans
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  • BUSINESS
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We are a podcast on all things related to Business Process Management, hosted by BPM-experts Russell Gomersall and Caspar Jans (who combine a whopping 40+ years of BPM and Industry experience).

  1. 4D AGO

    EP. 60: "The Iceberg Effect: Why Your Process Problems Are Just Symptoms"

    In this episode, the hosts dive deep into the critical mistake many organizations make: treating surface-level process issues without addressing the underlying root causes. They introduce the concept of the "iceberg effect" in process management, where visible problems are merely symptoms of deeper systemic issues lurking beneath the surface. The discussion explores how rushing to fix what's immediately obvious often leads to wasted effort, temporary solutions, and recurring problems. Through compelling examples, they demonstrate how what appears to be a process breakdown is often actually a technology limitation, organizational culture issue, or capability gap. The hosts emphasize the importance of taking time to properly diagnose before prescribing solutions, even when stakeholders are pressuring for quick fixes. They share practical techniques for uncovering root causes, including asking "why" multiple times and examining patterns across different process failures. The conversation highlights how addressing symptoms creates busy work while solving root causes delivers exponential value. Listeners learn why investment in proper analysis upfront saves significant time and resources downstream. The episode provides a framework for distinguishing between symptoms and causes in process improvement work. This is essential listening for anyone tired of fighting the same process fires repeatedly. 5 Key Takeaways: Look Below the Waterline: Like an iceberg, most process problems have visible symptoms above the surface, but the real issues—poor system integration, capability gaps, cultural resistance—lie hidden beneath and must be addressed for lasting solutions.Resist the Quick Fix Pressure: When stakeholders demand immediate solutions, invest time in proper root cause analysis first; fixing symptoms creates recurring problems while solving root causes prevents future issues from emerging.Ask "Why" Repeatedly: Use techniques like the "5 Whys" to drill down from surface symptoms to underlying causes—each answer should prompt another question until you reach the true source of the problem.Pattern Recognition is Key: Look for similar issues occurring across different processes or departments; these patterns often reveal systemic root causes rather than isolated process failures.Educate Stakeholders on True Costs: Help leadership understand that rushing to symptom-level fixes wastes more resources over time than investing upfront in root cause analysis—short-term speed often means long-term waste.

    44 min

  2. FEB 10

    Ep. 59: "From Firefighting to Flow: Why Your BPM Team Needs to Stop Being the Doers"

    In this episode, the hosts tackle one of the most common pitfalls in business process management: when BPM teams become permanent process operators instead of enablers of change. They explore how organizations often fall into the trap of having their BPM experts do the work rather than embedding process excellence into operational teams. The discussion reveals why this creates dependency, prevents scaling, and ultimately undermines the strategic value of process management. Through real-world examples, they illustrate how BPM should function as a catalyst for organizational capability building rather than a permanent fix-it squad. The hosts emphasize that true process maturity means teaching teams to fish rather than fishing for them indefinitely. They examine the delicate balance between providing initial support and knowing when to step back. The conversation highlights how governance, clear boundaries, and outcome ownership are essential to breaking the cycle of dependency. Listeners learn why saying "no" strategically can be more valuable than always saying "yes." The episode provides practical guidance on transitioning from doer to enabler and building sustainable process capabilities. Ultimately, this is a call to action for BPM professionals to reclaim their strategic role and drive lasting organizational change. 5 Key Takeaways: Break the Doer Dependency: BPM teams should enable and empower process owners rather than becoming permanent operators who do the work for them—otherwise you create unsustainable dependency and prevent true organizational capability building. Define Clear Boundaries Early: Establish upfront what the BPM team will and won't do, including time-bound support arrangements, to avoid becoming the default solution for every process problem. Focus on Capability Transfer: The goal is to build process management muscles within operational teams through training, coaching, and gradual handoffs—not to maintain control indefinitely. Tie Support to Outcomes: When providing temporary assistance, link it to measurable outcomes and specific capability development milestones to ensure teams are progressing toward self-sufficiency. Strategic "No" is Powerful: Learning to decline requests that would perpetuate dependency allows BPM teams to focus on higher-value strategic work and forces organizations to develop their own process competencies.

    51 min

  3. FEB 3

    Ep. 58: "Beyond the Boxes and Arrows: Why BPM Is More Than Just Drawing Processes"

    Summary In this engaging episode, Caspar and Russell sit down with BJ Biernatowski and Zbigniew Misiak, co-authors of "Practical Business Process Modeling and Analysis," to discuss the evolving role of BPM in digital transformation. The guests share their journey of writing a book that took two years and was initially double its final size, revealing just how vast the BPM domain truly is. They tackle the uncomfortable truth that selling BPM is "one of the most unthankful jobs in the world," as organizations often see process modeling as isolated from actual business value. The conversation explores how BPM must shift from creating static BPMN diagrams to providing dynamic insights about organizational dependencies and connections. A major focus emerges around AI's transformative impact: AI needs BPM as "guardrails" to prevent hallucinations and ensure reliable outputs, while BPM needs AI to make process knowledge more accessible and actionable. The guests emphasize that successful BPM isn't about perfect models—it's about connecting processes to enterprise architecture, applications, roles, risks, and regulations in a unified repository. They discuss how AI agents will fundamentally change process work beyond simple sequential automation, requiring new approaches to modeling complex, non-linear workflows. 5 Key Takeaways Value Over Visualization: Managers don't care about process models—they want results. BPM must focus on delivering measurable value (better communication, faster projects, fewer problems) rather than creating beautiful BPMN diagrams that only the modeler can read. AI Needs BPM as Guardrails: AI systems require process repositories to provide reliable, context-aware information and prevent hallucinations. BPM gives AI the boundaries, regulations, goals, and organizational context needed to make trustworthy decisions aligned with business strategy. The Repository Revolution: Modern BPM repositories must evolve beyond static process maps to become dynamic, real-time representations connecting processes, applications, roles, risks, regulations, and enterprise architecture—creating a unified knowledge graph accessible to both humans and AI. Beyond Sequential Thinking: Traditional process modeling focused on linear sequences (A→B→C→D) suitable for automation, but AI agents enable non-linear, case management approaches requiring new modeling paradigms like object-centric process management to handle organizational complexity. Convergence Is Coming: The artificial separation between BPM and Enterprise Architecture must end—both disciplines look at the same organization from different angles, and AI-powered tools can finally unite them into consolidated repositories that serve multiple use cases simultaneously. Book Practical Business Process Modeling and AnalysisAmazon:https://www.amazon.com/Practical-Business-Process-Modeling-Analysis/dp/1805126741Packt:https://www.packtpub.com/en-us/product/practical-business-process-modeling-and-analysis-9781805126386Additional links:BPM Skills cycle on BPMTips.com: https://bpmtips.com/category/bpm-skills/

    1h 1m

  4. JAN 27

    Ep. 57: Is BPM the scapegoat for AI failures?

    "Is BPM the Scapegoat for AI Failures? A Critical Look at Process Management's Future" SummaryIn this candid episode, Caspar and Russell tackle the uncomfortable question: Is BPM destined to become the scapegoat for failing AI initiatives? They dive into Deloitte's Tech Trends 2026 report, which predicts that 40% of AI projects will be cancelled, and explore BPM's role in these failures. Russell questions whether there's a fundamental flaw in BPM methodology that prevents widespread adoption, while Caspar argues it's too early to blame a use case that's only 18 months old. The conversation takes an intriguing turn when they examine the tension between agile methodologies and process governance, with both hosts agreeing that organizations need structure at higher levels while allowing agility at granular levels. They discuss the challenge of integrating BPM into organizations already saturated with methodologies like Lean Six Sigma and Scrum. A key insight emerges: never appoint a perfectionist to lead your BPM project—generalists should be at the top with perfectionists handling the details. They also explore the complexity of defining process ownership, especially the critical role of end-to-end process owners, and debate whether BPM practitioners should adapt their standard role frameworks to fit existing organizational structures. The episode concludes with a promise to tackle the controversial topic of process taxonomy and SAP's influence on enterprise architecture in their next discussion. 5 Key TakeawaysThe Scapegoat Risk: With 40% of AI initiatives predicted to fail by 2027, BPM risks becoming the fall guy despite the BPM-for-AI use case being only 18 months old—too early to judge its effectiveness.Agility Needs Structure: Organizations should allow agile methodologies at granular levels (individual products or use cases) but maintain structured governance at higher levels to prevent chaos across 127+ development tribes.Generalists Lead, Perfectionists Execute: Never appoint a perfectionist to lead BPM initiatives—put pragmatic generalists at the top and save perfectionists for detailed, lower-level work where precision matters.Adapt to Existing Structures: Rather than imposing standard BPM roles on organizations already saturated with methodologies (Scrum, Lean Six Sigma), start with defining the end-to-end process owner and build around existing organizational capabilities.Value Comes from Connections: The true value of BPM isn't in having models—it's in understanding the dependencies between enterprise artifacts (activities, roles, applications, risks) to prevent unintended consequences from changes.

    39 min

  5. JAN 20

    Ep. 56: AI & Octopuses, a conversation with Stephen Wunker

    Keywords AI, business processes, innovation, change management, organizational structure, data quality, Stephen Wunker, BPM, technology adoption, consulting Summary In this episode of the BPM 360 Podcast, hosts Caspar and Russell engage with Stephen Wunker, managing director of New Markets Advisors, to discuss the transformative impact of AI on business processes and organizational structures. They explore the importance of adapting to change, the role of innovation in large enterprises, and the necessity of critical thinking in the age of AI. Stephen shares insights from his extensive experience in consulting and his latest book, 'AI and the Octopus Organization,' emphasizing the need for organizations to rethink their processes and embrace AI as a tool for achieving business objectives. Takeaways AI is a revolutionary tool that requires rethinking business objectives. Organizations must adapt to change and embrace innovation. The octopus serves as a metaphor for adaptability in business. AI can enhance decision-making but requires human engagement. Data quality is crucial for effective AI implementation. Change management involves addressing emotional responses to disruption. Startups and large enterprises face different challenges in innovation. Experimentation is key to successful AI integration. Organizations should prioritize a few key business questions for transformation. Critical thinking is essential in the age of AI. Sound bites "AI is better than a human being." "You cannot tango on your own." "AI makes mediocre workers decent." Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Personal Updates 02:24 The Impact of AI on Business 03:34 Stephen Wunker's Background and Expertise 06:33 Innovation Processes in Large Enterprises 10:13 The Role of Structure in Startups 11:56 AI as an Organizational Enabler 17:39 Rethinking Business Models with AI 21:10 The Importance of Data Quality 23:48 Emotional Aspects of Change Management 30:30 Strategies for AI Integration 33:32 Distributed Intelligence in Organizations 36:29 The Future of AI and Human Collaboration 42:54 Final Thoughts and Dilemmas

    44 min

  6. JAN 13

    Episode 55: Three BPM trends for 2026

    Keywords BPM, process management, AI, trends, 2026, strategic asset, agentic AI, BPM singularity, digital twin, orchestration Summary In this episode of the BPM 360 Podcast, hosts Caspar and Russell discuss the revival of process management as a strategic asset, the role of agentic AI in BPM, and the convergence of BPM with other disciplines, leading to what they term 'BPM Singularity'. They explore the trends shaping BPM for 2026, emphasizing the importance of AI in enhancing process management and the need for organizations to adopt a holistic approach to process and data management. Takeaways The podcast is entering its fifth season, highlighting its growth and milestones. There is an ambition to increase the frequency of podcast episodes this season. The revival of process management is seen as a strategic asset for organizations. AI is becoming a critical component in enhancing BPM capabilities. The concept of agentic AI is crucial for the future of BPM. BPM is gaining traction again due to the emergence of AI technologies. Organizations need to manage process variance effectively to optimize operations. The convergence of BPM with enterprise architecture and orchestration is essential for success. AI is driving the need for a holistic understanding of organizational processes. The podcast aims to explore the evolving landscape of BPM and AI throughout the season. Sound bites "AI is making these repositories accessible." "The process scope is expanding." "You cannot just think in your department." Chapters 00:00 Welcome to Season 5 03:39 Trends in BPM for 2026 14:15 AI's Role in BPM 23:30 The BPM Singularity 33:26 Closing Thoughts and Future Episodes

    30 min

  7. 12/23/2025

    “You Can Pretend to Care, But You Can’t Pretend to Show Up” – Tommie Jo Brode on Culture & HR

    In this episode of the BPM360 Podcast, Caspar and Russell “cover another angle” of process entirely: the human one. While Russell checks in from Frankfurt between company meetups and Business Flows releases, the conversation quickly shifts from process content to a much deeper question: how does it actually feel to work inside an organization?  Their guest, Tommi Jo Brode – attorney, workplace culture expert, and consultant at Venice Solutions Group – brings a people-first lens to what many leaders still treat as “soft stuff.” She explains why most culture problems aren’t about salary or perks, but about respect, fairness, time with family, and whether people feel seen, heard, and included. “Little things” like how you react when someone asks for time off, or who gets invited to lunch, often sit behind big issues like turnover, complaints, and disengagement.  Together they unpack the gap between policy and practice, why people usually leave managers rather than companies, how HR can shift from “the department you fear” to a genuine people partner, and why leadership needs more unfiltered input from the front line. From “undercover boss” moments to practical habits for remote check-ins, Tommie shows that good culture is less about posters on the wall and more about showing up consistently as a human being.   5 Key Takeaways  1. Most culture problems aren’t about money. Turnover, complaints, and disengagement are usually rooted in respect, workload, fairness, and inclusion – not in base pay alone 2. Policy is what’s written; culture is what actually happens. A company may “allow” flexible time or easy time-off in policy, but if managers roll their eyes, guilt-trip, or quietly punish people for using it, the real rule is very different. 3. Employees experience the company through their manager. For most people, “the company” is their direct supervisor. If the manager is supportive and fair, the company feels good. If not, no amount of glossy mission statements will fix it. 4. HR should enable, not intimidate. HR can be a powerful ally by training managers in real conversations, listening skills, and prevention – instead of only appearing when something has gone wrong. 5. You build trust by showing up, consistently. Walking the floor, joining a night shift once, or scheduling regular 1:1 check-ins in remote teams sends a clear message: I see you, I’m interested, and how you’re doing matters — and that’s the foundation of sustainable performance and process excellence. We hope you enjoy our BPM Podcast.Subscribe and stay tuned for more.Please send us your comments and questions toquestions@bpm360podcast.com

    52 min

  8. 12/18/2025

    Four Kids, Zero Limits: Jesper Blomster on Process Chaos & Human Magic

    In this special 10th episode of the BPM360 Podcast, Caspar and Russell connect with Swedish process leader Jesper Blomster — a self-taught digitalization expert, father of four, and the driving force behind major process intelligence initiatives in one of Sweden’s largest financial institutions. Jesper shares how he built a career not through formal degrees, but through curiosity, courage, and a deep commitment to solving real operational problems.  The conversation spans personal philosophy (“nothing is impossible”), culture in Nordic organizations, and why meaningful BPM always starts with people — not tools, not automation, not tech buzzwords. Jesper breaks down his approach to stakeholder engagement, ownership, and cross-level alignment, offering pragmatic insights from the trenches of operational change.  The trio also explores the limits of automation, why “optimizing five minutes” doesn’t move the needle, and how focusing on cash conversion cycles creates real business value. Jesper reflects on Scandinavia’s consensus-driven culture, how it shapes problem-solving, and why connecting people across strategic, tactical, and operational levels is the true engine of transformation.  The episode wraps with Jesper’s community project AUTOMATE, a global, open network where practitioners, academics, and leaders come together to learn, debate, and explore digitalization challenges collectively.  A rich, human-centric episode that embodies the spirit of BPM360: complex topics made understandable, meaningful, and connected to real people.  ⭐ Top 5 Takeaways 1) People first, technology second. Real BPM breakthroughs come from understanding frustrations, motivations, and human behaviour — not from pushing tools or automation. 2) “Impossible” is often just unexplored. Jesper’s mindset — shaped by “nothing is impossible” — shows that courage, curiosity, and reframing problems outperform formal structures. 3) Ownership beats enforcement. If you help teams look good, solve their pain points, and connect their work to strategic goals, they become advocates instead of resisters. 4) Automating five minutes is irrelevant — impact the big levers. Shaving off micro-tasks doesn’t transform a business. Improving cash conversion cycles or end-to-end flows does. 5) Culture determines transformation speed. Nordic consensus culture fosters debate, commitment, and alignment — creating an environment where change is not imposed, but co-created. We hope you enjoy our BPM Podcast. Subscribe and stay tuned for more. Please send us your comments and questions to questions@bpm360podcast.com

    50 min
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We are a podcast on all things related to Business Process Management, hosted by BPM-experts Russell Gomersall and Caspar Jans (who combine a whopping 40+ years of BPM and Industry experience).

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