Punk Rock Safety

Ben Goodheart, David Provan, Ron Gantt

This podcast isn't meant to make you feel better about your ideas on safety. A lot of them are probably wrong. We're not saying you aren’t smart or that we are, but probability isn't in our favor. It’s just a recognition that there are a lot of s****y ideas about safety out there, and pure chance suggests we all share some of them. This podcast is here to fight safety b******t. The three of us – Ben, Dave, and Ron – are here to talk about organizational safety, resilience, and human performance, but with a different perspective on things than you might be used to. Punk rock is about abandoning ideas that aren’t useful, being unafraid to push boundaries and sometimes fail, and doing it yourself when the things you need don’t exist. Here’s what Greg Graffin from Bad Religion says: “Punk is a process of questioning and commitment to understanding that results in self-progress, and by extrapolation, could lead to social progress. Punk is a belief that this world is what we make of it. Truth comes from our understanding of the way things are, not from the blind adherence to prescriptions about the way things should be.” Sounds good to us. Question everything. Do cool shit that works. Merch at www.punkrocksafetymerch.com

  1. 3D AGO

    Ep. 50: Skinny Mike (w/ Mike Rayo)

    It's big episode 50 over here at Punk Rock Safety, and the boys have made it exactly 49 episodes further than anyone would have thought. By now, you've probably caught on to the whole NOFX theme. It's not a song title for the episode, but it's a reference to Fat Mike, so that counts. Except this time, we've got Skinny Mike. Mike Rayo from THE Ohio State University's Cognitive Systems Engineering Lab joins the boys. By the way, that's Doctor Ron Gantt's Alma Mater in case you were keeping track. This fiftieth episode leans pretty hard into chaos and systems thinking. Ben is doing some sunset broadcasting from a dog park at a South Carolina truck stop. If you listen close, you can hear Jake brakes highlighting the smart things Mike says. The boys also wander into a discussion about AI’s awkward fit inside socio-technical systems, the gap in designing for joint cognitive activity, and why adaptive capacity remains the neglected pillar in safety investments. There's something for everyone, and Ron gets his joint cognitive activity, so that's a bonus. Professor Mike Rayo drops an integrated frame for “modern safety” (or “balanced safety”) and tackles the stupid “safety label wars” that have come up more than a few times. It's a little like deciding what counts as "punk," though, so don't expect that to be completely solved (except if you're the one telling everyone they aren't punk enough, you're probably the a*****e). The coolest part of the episode is probably the whole discussion on adaptive capacity moving from a footnote in most safety discussions to the thing that actually makes it happen.   Want to hear how the guys solve it? Check it out, punks. Even though Mike doesn't have any tattoos, mostly has instruments just lying around, and isn't really that into punk, he's real one - and he's a kick ass example of how Henry Rollins defines punk: "Questioning anything and everything.” Get after it.   DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them. Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do. https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/ Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page. Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

    56 min
  2. FEB 11

    Ep. 49: Jeff (Todd) Wears Birkenstocks (w/ Todd Conklin)

    This episode is what happens when the boys hit record while hanging out with Todd Conklin and then decide, “Good enough, let’s roll with it.” The Toddfather has definitely been seen rocking Birks, so he gets his very own NOFX song reference. It starts where all serious safety conversations should start: punk records, new tattoos, banjo heckling, and arguing about what “tier” everyone is in. Then Todd shows up and immediately ruins the fun by asking a question that actually matters: "Why does safety keep talking about innovation while mostly just polishing the same old stuff and calling it progress?" From there, things go sideways mostly in a good way. The boys talk about how new ideas don’t die because people hate them; they mostly die because nobody keeps pushing them. How safety has gotten weirdly obsessed with full-tilt scientific legitimacy, certainty, and defending itself instead of, you know, making work better. How LinkedIn is not helping. At all. And how most “innovation” in safety is just the same tools with new names and a s****y logo. Todd does what Todd does: calmly points out uncomfortable truths. He's like those old Jello Biafra interviews from the '80s and '90s, just splitting people's minds open. Like the fact that the most interesting innovation isn’t coming from safety conferences; it’s coming from places like pediatric hospitals, high-risk teams that never think they’re good enough, and organizations that actually design around how work happens instead of how they wish it happened. Also, nostalgia is not a strategy, and compliance is not a personality. Somewhere in the middle, they realize (again) that safety isn’t the goal, positive change to how we work is. Safety is just what falls out when work is designed, supported, and adapted well. That realization is immediately followed by more sarcasm, some light despair about the future of leadership, and at least one rant about why “waiting for the next big thinker” is probably a losing move. Does this episode solve anything? Absolutely not, even though the fellas definitely claim to. But, like punk rock, it's a reminder of why this stuff still matters, especially when it feels like the field is stuck in neutral. Also: still no new tattoos. Which honestly feels like the biggest failure of the episode.   DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them. Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do. https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/ Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page. Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

    1h 17m
  3. JAN 14

    Ep. 48: How Did The Cat Get So Fat?

    The boys are back (and they're looking for trouble - see if you can sort out that lyric) for Episode 48, kicking off 2026 with the standard blend of profanity, punk rock references, and sometimes solid safety insights. And it's another NOFX reference for an episode title. This episode tackles the problem of bloated safety stuff; those processes, procedures, and bureaucratic b******t that organizations accumulate without ever stopping to ask "why the f**k are we doing this?" Inspired by a LinkedIn comment about Episode 45 with Perry, one of the six PRS listeners, the crew dives into the critical distinction between safety work that actually matters and compliance checkbox theater that wastes everyone's time. Before a focus on safety, though, there's some discussion about HR and accounting sometimes trying to 'wag the dog' of operations. This isn't an HR podcast, though. There is some cross-purpose, though, and there might be folks conflating goals. The conversation gets real about how safety professionals need to approach experienced workers with curiosity rather than authority. The guys emphasize starting from a place of "they probably know something I don't" - asking questions, understanding context, and actually giving a shit about people's perspectives before imposing solutions. They propose a practical exercise: list everything your safety program does, get brutally honest about why you're doing each thing, then talk to workers about better ways to achieve those outcomes. The goal isn't to eliminate safety. It's to separate genuine risk management from lazy compliance work. Throughout the episode, there's the normal chaos: discussions of armed guards, activist emails, construction security, cricket matches lasting five days, and Ron's ongoing journey to the pinnacle of safety as an OSHA 30-hour certified trainer. The episode wraps with talk of upcoming guests and connections across the industry, proving once again that safety done right is about relationships, real conversations, and not being afraid to call b******t when you see it. By the way, if you're one of the six folks listening and you have suggestions for guests, drop us a line. Bonus points if they know things about safety and punk.   DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them. Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do. https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/ Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page. Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

    42 min
  4. 12/31/2025

    Ep. 47: When Did Punk Rock Become So Safe?

    Happy New Year, you beautiful punks! It's not a NOFX song, but the title is from Separation of Church and Skate, so that counts. Shocking, but his one is a full “figure it out live” episode. No prep. No agenda. Just the boys looking forward to some time off, talking shit, and accidentally landing on a pretty okay idea. There's a lot of the usual BS, but it's important to know that Dave rides an e-bike. Somewhere in the middle of the 8 minutes of dumb conversation that happens in most episodes, things turn serious (but not too serious) as Ron, Ben, and Dave start asking whether we’ve made work so “safe” that people are actually worse at dealing with real risk. There's talk about pocket knives for kids, live electrical work, hand-flying airplanes, clean construction sites that still hurt people, and why removing every hazard might also remove competence. There’s aviation, chemical plants, forklifts, chaos engineering, tabletop exercises, and the kinda weird realization that if people never see danger, they might not recognize it when it shows up. No clean answers or silver bullets. Just a messy, honest conversation about risk, skill, exposure, and the case for sometimes having a little less safety.   DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them. Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do. https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/ Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page. Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

    38 min
  5. 12/17/2025

    Ep. 46: My Heart Is Yearning

    My heart is yearning (yep, it’s a NOFX song) in anticipation. Of what? Well, that’s what the episode is, you jerk. Don’t ruin the surprise. Coming on the heels of the tragic shooting in Sydney, Australia, the boys couldn’t help but notice the commentary about how someone, somewhere, should have anticipated it. What does that have to do with Punk Rock Safety? Well, anticipation is one of what Erik Hollnagel calls the four potentials of resilient systems. Sounds great, but what - and how - are we supposed to anticipate? It doesn’t seem possible to predict every possible failure or event, right? But what about conditions in the system? Instead of trying to 'Magic 8 Ball' everything, Ron, Dave, and Ben suggest that what organizations should anticipate is where systems, processes, or people may be stretched, stressed, or pushed to their limits. Like in the circle pit. Or pretty much any time you’re forced to listen to the Misfits for very long. Or ska. Basically, we should focus on anticipating where there is less capacity to adapt and maneuver. Recognizing these vulnerable spots, organizations can then build their capacity to adapt, respond, and recover, even if it isn’t a specific scenario. So, expecting a single, complex convergence into an unpredictable event is tough. Planning for degraded conditions in parts of the system without a lot of backup? That’s the kind of anticipation that counts (somebody let the sound guys at Punk in the Park know, would ya?).   DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them. Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do. https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/ Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page. Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

    50 min
  6. 12/03/2025

    Ep. 45: And Now For Something Completely Similar (w/ Brian Hughes)

    After the usual BS of “Did anyone invite a guest?” and “Let’s text random people while we're recording,” the boys get down to business: a whole lot of safety plans are the same recycled Word doc with a new company logo slapped on. Sounds almost the same as every ska song does. Turns out, not a lot of people spend time creating real, specific plans, so they just do a “File, Save As” on their way to compliance. By the way, it's still a NOFX song for the episode title. Just saying. Contractor management? Copy-paste, MFers. Workers think half these plans are useless, and even the managers know they’re just hoops to jump through. But don’t worry, checklists and forms will sort it out, because nothing says safety like paperwork! Leadership? Yeah, leaders are supposed to show up and make all this “personal,” except half the time it's just performative nonsense. They debate whether “best practices” exist, eventually agreeing that the best practice is probably making sure people know what the hell a safety plan is even for. The reason every unique, special snowflake job site's plans look exactly like the next is because, deep down, they're lazy (says Dave), too overwhelmed, or just too unbothered to actually change anything about work.   Brian Hughes from Sologic was cool enough to answer a last-minute call and hop onto the pod, and because he's a bassist, he's nicer than most people. He takes a better view of how something like a template can actually help, not hurt, especially when people are overwhelmed by other stuff. Like meat at the Brazilian steakhouse where Brian is housing steaks off a meat sword. He looks at a template or copy-paste as a life preserver, but he draws the line at stopping there. And then Brian has to go get dessert. So, maybe it's okay to have a little bit of help, but a wash, rinse, repeat of stuff that sounds the same but doesn't work isn't good. Cool. Now what? Questions, not "insert company name." As a starter kit, you can still get a jump start without just putting 27 people on stage with horns and calling it good. Check it out for all the answers.   DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them. Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do. https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/ Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page. Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

    54 min
  7. 11/12/2025

    Ep. 44: Dinosaurs Will Die

    This episode dives into the reality of safety management systems; how they often feel disconnected, bloated, and stuck in the past. You know. Like a dinosaur. Maybe worse than being a dinosaur is being a dinosaur just for the sake of having something to show off, even when it's just to call something a "system" or to have something to point at. The boys chase down the idea that safety activities like inductions, audits, and incident investigations rarely talk to each other, leading to a lack of real coordination and feedback loops. They explore how organizations sometimes pile on useless tasks and “b******t” safety activities, missing the mark on what actually matters.   Probably the best part - if there is one - of the conversation touches on the importance of knowledge management, the role of AI in surfacing hidden insights, and the need for systems to be dynamic, not just static documents. There’s also a healthy dose of skepticism about the value of safety professionals and a call to focus on what truly keeps people safe, rather than chasing every minor incident.   In a weird twist (not as weird as Dave's pods from Episode 43), the episode wraps up with some mushroom coffee stories, and a reminder that sometimes, the best safety move is knowing when to let go of the small stuff.   DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them. Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do. https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/ Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page. Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

    51 min
  8. 10/29/2025

    Ep. 43: Punk Rock Saves Lives

    If you've never read all the way to the bottom of the episode notes, you won't know what PRSL is. Now you do. It's a good name for an episode, but seriously, go check out www.punkrocksaveslives.org. They're solid folks doing really kickass work. Not like this podcast. In this episode, the boys start off debating the merits of bacon and egg rolls. Or egg and bacon rolls, because priorities. Pretty quickly, things go headfirst into the world of “wellbeing,” getting glued onto safety job titles. We’re talking about how psychosocial risk has (sometimes) become the new buzzword, and whether that’s actually making work better or just giving us more posters and press releases. We dig into whether safety is the right place for wellbeing, or if it’s just being dumped there because no one else knows where to put it. The real deal? Wellbeing only matters if we fix the work itself. Stop with the mindfulness sessions between 13 meetings and start giving people real control over their jobs. The wellbeing that really works: redesigning the work, not the posters. If “wellness” just means more compliance for the sake of it, we’ll get the same result we got with a lot of efforts around culture - a brand campaign with no change to the conditions of work. And yeah, Ron’s sleep pods might’ve been reasonable, but Dave’s story about an actual Australian office having a “masturbation station” took a turn no one expected. Ben reminds us, if your safety work can’t tie to actual wellbeing, maybe it’s just busy work. But when you fix the work, people get better by default. Or because of the pods. Bottom line: Wellbeing is more than fruit bowls and yoga mats, and if we don’t change the work, we’re just putting lipstick on the same old compliance pig.   DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them. Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do. https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/ Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page. Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

    53 min

Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
12 Ratings

About

This podcast isn't meant to make you feel better about your ideas on safety. A lot of them are probably wrong. We're not saying you aren’t smart or that we are, but probability isn't in our favor. It’s just a recognition that there are a lot of s****y ideas about safety out there, and pure chance suggests we all share some of them. This podcast is here to fight safety b******t. The three of us – Ben, Dave, and Ron – are here to talk about organizational safety, resilience, and human performance, but with a different perspective on things than you might be used to. Punk rock is about abandoning ideas that aren’t useful, being unafraid to push boundaries and sometimes fail, and doing it yourself when the things you need don’t exist. Here’s what Greg Graffin from Bad Religion says: “Punk is a process of questioning and commitment to understanding that results in self-progress, and by extrapolation, could lead to social progress. Punk is a belief that this world is what we make of it. Truth comes from our understanding of the way things are, not from the blind adherence to prescriptions about the way things should be.” Sounds good to us. Question everything. Do cool shit that works. Merch at www.punkrocksafetymerch.com

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