What happens when a mental health struggle isn’t only mental? Clinical mental health counselor Dr. Natalie Atwell is back on No Longer Nomads—and this time, the conversation goes even deeper into the unseen. After years of counseling clients, Natalie began noticing something troubling: cases were getting “weirder and stranger.” People were reporting sleep paralysis, disturbing spiritual experiences, involvement with occult practices, and struggles that didn’t always fit neatly into a traditional mental health diagnosis. At the same time, practices once considered explicitly spiritual—tarot cards, manifestation, crystals, divination, psychedelics, and other New Age practices—are increasingly being presented as tools for healing and wellness. So where is the line between mental health…and spiritual warfare? In this episode, Josh Doyle and Dr. Natalie Atwell explore the difficult intersection between psychology, trauma, biblical theology, and the unseen realm. Natalie shares how her counseling practice approaches cases where traditional therapy doesn't seem to explain everything—and why she believes Christians need to take both the psychological AND spiritual dimensions of suffering seriously. Then the conversation goes even deeper. Drawing from the work of Dr. Michael Heiser, Natalie unpacks the Divine Council worldview and the three biblical rebellions of Genesis 3, Genesis 6, and Genesis 11. She explains how this framework radically changed the way she understands humanity, spiritual influence, mental health, and what it means to be created in the image of God. They also discuss: • Why some therapists are incorporating tarot and divination into counseling • The rise of New Age spirituality and manifestation • How Natalie distinguishes mental illness from possible spiritual influence • Christians and demonic oppression • Deliverance, repentance, prayer, and traditional therapy • The Divine Council and the unseen realm • Genesis 6, the Nephilim, and the Book of Enoch • The three rebellions of Genesis 3, 6, and 11 • Narcissism, power, and spiritual abuse inside the Church • Why Natalie believes darkness may intensify toward the end of the age • What spiritual warfare can actually look like in everyday life • Why our identity as image-bearers of God matters in the battle Natalie also discusses her new book, Humanity Under Siege: The Unseen Realm and the Spiritual Battle for the Mind, and the years of research that led her to rethink how Christians approach some of the darkest struggles people face. This isn't a conversation about ignoring mental health or labeling every struggle as demonic. It's about asking whether we've left out an entire part of the conversation. Because if the spiritual realm is real, understanding what we're actually fighting matters. No Longer Nomads — because no one was meant to wander alone. #SpiritualWarfare #MentalHealth #ChristianPodcast #UnseenRealm #DemonicOppression
