It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast

The Overlap
  • 5.0 (146)
  • Soccer
  • Updated Daily

Welcome to The Overlap's football history podcast, It Was What It Was. Each week Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper will be talking about the key episodes in football history that have shaped the footballing world. The show will be discussing the best stories from football's past, giving insights to the personalities involved. the tales from behind the scenes and the impact they left. Join us at Football University! If you enjoy the podcast please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

  1. 5d ago

    Ghanaian's Football Golden Age: Part Two

    Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson examine Kwame Nkrumah’s state-backed club Real Republicans and why it became widely unpopular despite winning trophies, after being created by taking top players from existing clubs without compensation and reinforcing regional and ethnic tensions, particularly in Ashanti. They track criticism in the Evening News and Ashanti Pioneer, Kotoko’s protests, and the club’s lack of public support even at its peak. The episode argues the project nonetheless helped the Black Stars by building cohesion, highlighted by a 3–3 draw with Real Madrid in 1962 and Ghana’s AFCON triumphs in 1963 and 1965 under C.K. Gyamfi, with key players drawn from Republicans. The discussion then links football to Nkrumah’s growing authoritarianism, economic strain from cocoa price swings, and his 1966 CIA-backed coup, after which Real Republicans were dissolved, while Ghana’s club and national successes continued briefly before declining with reduced state support. 00:00 Why Fans Reject Republicans 01:33 Nkrumah Builds a Model Club 05:09 Player Raids Spark Backlash 09:05 Trophies Without Love 16:32 Politics and Regional Resentment 21:34 Cocoa Prices and Ashanti Nationalism 25:41 Break and Reset 26:07 Golden Era for Black Stars 26:55 Real Madrid Draw and FIFA Fight 29:24 World Cup Qualifiers Reality Check 30:12 FIFA Spots Ghana 32:08 Real Republicans Core 33:18 Baba Yara Tragedy 34:00 1963 AFCON Triumph 36:03 Ethiopia Tangent 41:10 1965 AFCON Away Win 43:38 Ghana Legacy Debate 45:37 Nkrumah Turns Authoritarian 50:27 Coup Ends Era 51:37 Aftermath and Wrap Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    Ghanaian's Football Golden Age: Part Two

  2. Sep 15

    Ghanaian's Football Golden Age: Part One

    Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson discuss how Kwame Nkrumah used football to build Ghana’s national identity and promote Pan-African unity after independence (1957) and becoming a republic (1960). They trace Ghana’s colonial background as the Gold Coast, Nkrumah’s education and political radicalization in London and the US, his leadership of the CPP, and the push to independence amid postwar unrest and cocoa blight riots. Nkrumah backed football as a tool for unity, sponsoring the Nkrumah Gold Cup and founding the African Club Championships (Osagyefo Cup), a precursor to today’s African Champions League. The episode then profiles Ghana star C.K. Gyamfi (“Magic Feet”), his rise through local clubs, a 1951 UK tour, and a breakthrough spell at Fortuna Düsseldorf in 1960 before returning to play for Ghana. 00:00 Nkrumah and Football Nationhood 03:04 Ghana Under Empire 04:53 Nkrumah Abroad and Ideas 06:38 London Debates and Mentors 12:33 Return and Rising Unrest 15:15 CPP and Road to Independence 18:43 Republic and Cult of Leader 20:05 Sport as National Unity 23:11 Pan African Tournaments Begin 25:30 Gold Cup Wins and Wider Wave 26:53 Osagyefo Cup Club Vision 27:13 Osagyefo Cup Origins 27:58 First African Club Final 28:17 Unity Through Football 30:01 Ghana Golden Era Focus 31:07 Meet CK Gyamfi 33:14 Early Life And Clubs 35:00 Mysterious Dwarves Tangent 38:41 Kotoko And UK Tour 41:55 Germany With Fortuna 48:06 Called Back To Ghana 49:31 Part One Wrap Up Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    Ghanaian's Football Golden Age: Part One

  3. Sep 8

    Remembering Kevin Keegan: Part Three

    Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper conclude their three-part series on Kevin Keegan by tracing his managerial career and the idealism behind his “why not?” philosophy. They cover his post-playing retreat in Marbella, a 1991 roadside attack that sparked unfounded rumours, and his surprise return to rescue near-bankrupt Newcastle in 1992 despite having barely watched football. Keegan’s early chaos, promotion to the Premier League, and “entertainers” era are explored, including the Andy Cole sale and his famous address to angry fans. The episode revisits the 1995–96 title collapse, his exit amid Newcastle’s flotation plans, spells at Fulham and England, a steadier period at Manchester City, and a final, acrimonious Newcastle return under Mike Ashley, ending with reflections on his legacy and farewell tour. 00:00 Dreamers Welcome 01:39 Marbella Escape 02:49 Celebrity Golf Circuit 04:52 M25 Attack Rumors 08:10 Lightbulb Moment 09:34 Sir John Hall Calls 14:02 Return of the King 17:03 Unprepared New Boss 20:29 Great Escape Finale 22:13 Promotion Blueprint 24:53 Entertainers Era 26:32 Newcastle Goldfish Bowl 28:41 Keegan in the City 30:22 Keegan Tea Reception 32:14 Andy Cole Fallout 33:24 Calming The Mob 36:31 Title Charge Collapse 39:03 Shearer And Glory 41:43 Flotation Clash Exit 44:52 Fulham And England Call 47:24 Poisoned Chalice England 52:56 City Comeback Era 55:36 Third Newcastle Breakdown 58:54 Final Farewell Legacy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    Remembering Kevin Keegan: Part Three

  4. Sep 1

    Remembering Kevin Keegan: Part Two

    Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue their Kevin Keegan series, following his 1977 move from Liverpool to Hamburg for a far higher salary and the difficult start marked by teammate resentment, managerial upheaval, a humiliating Super Cup loss at Anfield, and an eight-week ban after he struck a defender in a friendly at Lübeck. They chart his turnaround under Branko Zebec as Hamburg win the Bundesliga in 1978–79, Keegan becomes a German celebrity, learns the language, and wins the Ballon d’Or twice, before turning down Juventus and returning to England with an underwhelming Southampton spell and a breakdown with Lawrie McMenemy. The episode also covers Keegan’s burdened England captaincy amid missed World Cups, including a beating by Yugoslav police, threats in Belfast, Euro 1980, and injury-hit World Cup 1982, before his high-profile move to Second Division Newcastle, the lift he gives the city, and his retirement after a sobering FA Cup loss to Liverpool. 00:00 Keegan Cashes In 01:06 Hamburg Move Explained 01:39 The Bubble Perm Era 03:40 Frosty Dressing Room 06:36 Lübeck Punch Up 09:46 Backlash and Doubts 10:58 Turning Point Return 12:01 Zebec Sparks Revival 14:03 Pop Star in Germany 17:20 Ballon d'Or Debate 21:12 European Cup Heartbreak 23:14 Shock Southampton Switch 25:07 Saints Reality Check 27:22 Keegan Takes Criticism Personally 28:27 England Captain Burden 30:38 Poland Wembley Heartbreak 31:47 Belgrade Police Beating 34:20 Euro 1980 Chaos 35:38 Thatcher Photo Fallout 36:51 IRA Threats Belfast 40:28 World Cup 1982 Injury 43:50 Newcastle Homecoming Move 46:52 Robson Drops Keegan 49:31 Keegan Lifts Newcastle 55:12 Lawrenson Moment Retirement 55:54 Helicopter Farewell Wrap Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    Remembering Kevin Keegan: Part Two

  5. Aug 25

    Remembering Kevin Keegan: Part One

    *The full three-part series is available on Patreon now* Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper pay tribute to Kevin Keegan, who died in July aged 75, reflecting on his rare charisma, self-awareness, and ability to connect with people, as well as his status as the only British player to win the Ballon d’Or twice. They trace his working-class upbringing in Armthorpe near Doncaster, his family’s mining and Labour roots, and formative influences like Sister Mary Oliver, who encouraged his football. The episode follows Keegan’s unlikely early path—rejected by Doncaster and Coventry, starting at Scunthorpe—through his move to Liverpool under Bill Shankly, where his fitness, motivation, and partnership with John Toshack helped drive major success, alongside growing fame via endorsements and Superstars. They end with Keegan’s decision to leave as Liverpool approach European glory. 00:00 Tribute to Keegan 01:09 Charisma and Kindness 06:19 Roots in Doncaster 09:14 Mining Heritage 15:22 School and Sweetheart 22:21 Rejected Then Spotted 24:28 Scunthorpe Breakthrough 28:18 Move to Liverpool 30:03 Negotiating His Worth 33:34 Late Arrival Debut 35:22 Toshack Partnership 35:47 Sweat Box Fitness 37:10 Telepathy Test Hoax 40:12 Shankly Mind Games 41:46 Celebrity Endorsements 47:26 Superstars Bike Crash 49:48 Trophies And Turning Point 54:44 Shankly Leaves Fallout 57:34 European Peak Exit Plan Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    Remembering Kevin Keegan: Part One

  6. Aug 18

    Total Football: Glory, Fracture and the 1974 World Cup | Part Four

    The fourth and final episode in Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper's Total Football series explores Ajax’s remarkable success under Stefan Kovacs and the Netherlands’ unforgettable 1974 World Cup campaign. Kovacs inherited Rinus Michels’ European champions but allowed the side’s fluid, player-led style to evolve. Ajax continued to win major honours, including two European Cups, but growing player power and Johan Cruyff’s influence created tensions beneath the success. As internal divisions deepened, Kovacs left, Cruyff departed for Barcelona, and Ajax’s golden era began to unravel. Enter the 1974 World Cup. Despite a difficult qualification process and a squad shaped by rivalries, Michels and Cruyff assembled a side that thrilled the world. They swept past Argentina, overcame Brazil in a fiercely contested encounter, and brought Total Football to its global peak. But in the final against hosts West Germany, an early lead was not enough. Off-pitch distractions, overconfidence and German resilience contributed to a famous 2–1 defeat. The Dutch did not lift the World Cup, but their legacy was greater than a single trophy: Total Football transformed how the modern game is played. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    Total Football: Glory, Fracture and the 1974 World Cup | Part Four

  7. Aug 11

    Total Football: Cruyff, Ajax and the Golden Years | Part Three

    In part three of our Total Football series, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper arrive at Ajax’s golden age. They explore Johan Cruyff’s development: the precocious teenager shaped by Ajax, Vic Buckingham and Rinus Michels; a player whose extraordinary understanding of space, timing and tactics made him the ultimate expression of individuality within a system. The episode unpicks how Ajax’s 4-3-3 worked in practice. Positional rotations, an aggressive offside trap, collective pressing and the instinctive relationships built through years of playing together. Jonathan also examines the uncomfortable questions around fitness, sports science and alleged stimulant use in the era, before charting Ajax’s first European Cup triumph in 1971 and the arrival of Ștefan Kovács after Michels’ departure for Barcelona. This is the story of how a brilliant group of players, led by Cruyff, turned a tactical idea into the most influential team in European football. You can listen to all the Total Football episodes early right now, here on Patreon. Enjoy. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    Total Football: Cruyff, Ajax and the Golden Years | Part Three

  8. Aug 6

    Franco Baresi Tribute: Jamie Carragher on Milan's Maestro

    *You can listen to the full episode on our Patreon* Rob Draper hosts a bonus edition of It Was What It Was with Jamie Carragher stepping in to pay tribute to the late great Franco Baresi . Carragher explains why Baresi’s name is passed down through generations, calls him the greatest defender he’s ever seen, and hails Sacchi’s AC Milan as the greatest team until Guardiola’s Barcelona, with Baresi and Maldini central to a back four that revolutionised modern football through pressing, a high line and the shift away from the sweeper system. They discuss Baresi’s unique blend of sweeper elegance and aggressive defending in a back four, his extraordinary return from a knee injury for the 1994 World Cup final against Romario, and how his football brain overcame a lack of height. Carragher also shares meeting Baresi at a Milan derby and showing his signed Baresi shirts. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    Franco Baresi Tribute: Jamie Carragher on Milan's Maestro
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Welcome to The Overlap's football history podcast, It Was What It Was. Each week Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper will be talking about the key episodes in football history that have shaped the footballing world. The show will be discussing the best stories from football's past, giving insights to the personalities involved. the tales from behind the scenes and the impact they left. Join us at Football University! If you enjoy the podcast please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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