It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast

The Overlap
  • 5.0 (122)
  • SOCCER
  • UPDATED DAILY

Welcome to The Overlap's football history podcast, It Was What It Was. Each week Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper will be talking about the key episodes in football history that have shaped the footballing world. The show will be discussing the best stories from football's past, giving insights to the personalities involved. the tales from behind the scenes and the impact they left. Join us at Football University! If you enjoy the podcast please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

  1. 1D AGO

    The American Dream: Pelé, Cosmos + Rise & Fall of NASL | Part Three

    Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this third episode of our four-part special on the North American Soccer League (NASL), co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper dive deep into the transformation kicked off by the arrival of legendary soccer star Pele. We go on an epic journey of the NASL, from shambolic beginnings to becoming one of the most iconic and influential leagues in world football, even if just for a short while. We explore how the NASL went from drawing crowds, to attracting the highest-paid player in the world, and the ensuing excitement and challenges that followed. Featuring the key moments, star players, innovative marketing strategies, and the initial signs of financial instability, this episode captures the league at its highest just before its inevitable decline. Don't miss this fascinating look at the peaks of NASL's history and what ultimately led the league to stumble. Tune in next week for the final episode of this four-part series. 02:33 The Growth of Soccer in American Schools and Colleges 03:32 Financial Struggles and the Arrival of Pele 13:54 Innovative Rule Changes and Attendance Issues 18:11 The Role of Media and Celebrity Influence 23:55 The NASL's Expansion and Financial Commitments 31:20 The Pursuit of Soccer Superstars 33:01 Pele's Impact on American Soccer 34:56 The Rise of NASL Franchises 36:59 Challenges and Financial Struggles 39:11 Marketing Gimmicks and Celebrity Players 55:03 The Golden Year of 1977 01:04:36 Pele's Farewell and Future Uncertainties Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    1h 6m

  2. 6D AGO

    Recommended Replay: When Amorim Arrived at Man United And The Busby-Ferguson Curse

    Following the sacking of Ruben Amorim by Manchester United, here is a recommended replay from our episode released in November 2024, when Amorim first arrived at Manchester United. Jonathan and Rob discuss the clubs persistent challenge in finding a manager capable of replicating the legacy left by its legendary figures - something that still stands today... Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    59 min

  3. JAN 6

    The American Dream: Pelé, Cosmos + Rise & Fall of NASL | Part Two

    Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue onto part two of a four-part special on the North American Soccer League (NASL). They discuss the initial attempts to establish professional soccer leagues in America, including the rivalries between the NASL and the National Professional Soccer League (NPSL). The episode covers the impact of foreign teams, the financial and logistical hurdles, and the ongoing struggle to gain popularity and acceptance in the U.S. market. With input from past experiences and key figures, they provide an in-depth look at why American soccer faced numerous setbacks and what was done to overcome them. Join us next week for part three! 01:09 The Early Years of Soccer in the USA 01:34 The Impact of the Wall Street Crash 06:46 Post-War Challenges 09:43 The Decline of American Soccer in the 1950s 21:46 The 1960s: A Decade of Missed Opportunities 27:15 The Birth of the NASL 33:25 Lack of American Players in Early Leagues 34:55 Rival Leagues: NPSL vs NASL 35:42 Initial Matches and Attendance Issues 40:11 Discipline Problems and Game Abandonments 48:10 Financial Struggles and Legal Battles 49:13 National Team Struggles and Attempts at Growth 50:31 Foreign Influence and Pre-season Tours 54:48 Financial Instability and League Contraction 58:20 NASL's Unconventional Season Format 01:00:32 Legacy and Future Prospects of NASL Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    1h 1m

  4. JAN 1

    New Years Day Special Episode

    Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Today, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper bring you a New Years Day Special Episode. We hope you enjoy and wish you all a Happy New Year! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    48 min

  5. 12/30/2025

    The American Dream: Pelé, Cosmos + Rise & Fall of NASL | Part One

    Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by a special guest and former footballer Dennis Tueart. In this first episode of our four-part special on the North American Soccer League (NASL), Dennis, known for his iconic moments with Sunderland and Manchester City, shares his remarkable journey from English football to the booming NASL in the 1970s. Discover his experiences with the New York Cosmos, playing alongside legends like Franz Beckenbauer, replacing Pele, navigating cultural shifts, and understanding the challenges and triumphs that shaped the future of soccer in America. Don't miss this deep dive into football history, glamour, and the evolution of the beautiful game in the United States. 00:57 Dennis Tueart's Transfer to the Cosmos 02:05 Challenges and Decisions 04:19 Arrival and Initial Impressions 07:15 Experiences and Reflections 11:38 Life in the NASL 17:18 Training and Facilities 18:58 Pre-season and Early Challenges 25:14 The NASL's Unique Rules 29:55 Challenges and Triumphs in the NASL 30:25 Play-off Performances and Nicknames 30:59 Intense Matches and Injuries 31:36 The Semi-final Comeback 36:27 Winning the Conference Final 37:40 Facing Rodney Marsh and Tampa Bay 42:51 Touring and Transitioning 46:53 Final Reflections and Legacy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    1 hr

  6. 12/23/2025

    Escape to Victory: The Cult Classic with Pele, Bobby Moore and Sylvester Stallone | Christmas Special

    Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this Christmas Special Episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by author John Smith to talk about his new book - 'Escape: A Love Letter to a Cult Football Classic' all about the film 'Escape to Victory'. The trio delve into the making of the film, revealing behind-the-scenes stories, discussing the film's historical context, and analysing the football sequences. We take a look at inside stories from the remarkable cast and crew, including Pele and Sylvester Stallone. The three discuss amusing anecdotes, the authenticity of the football matches and the film's lasting impact. This episode is a must-listen for fans of film and football history. Wishing you all a Merry Christmas from the It Was What It Was team! 00:00 Introduction and Welcoming John Smith 04:41 The Making of 'Escape to Victory' 20:44 Historical Resonances and Themes 28:59 Behind the Scenes Stories 34:09 The Escape Plan in the Film 37:11 The Cast and Their Connections 41:36 The Missing Footballer Mystery 46:01 Lack of Female Characters 47:06 The Football Game Analysis 53:19 The Half-Time Escape Plan 58:00 The Final Match Moments 01:06:13 Concluding Thoughts and Farewell Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    1h 7m

  7. 12/16/2025

    The Cold War Classico: George Orwell on Dinamo Moscow, Arsenal & Chelsea

    Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into George Orwell's infamous essay on sport, specifically focusing on Dinamo Moscow's 1945 tour of Britain. They explore Orwell's controversial viewpoint that serious sport is akin to 'war minus the shooting,' and delve into the historical and political context of this post-WWII football tour. The discussion covers the tactical innovations introduced by the Soviet team, the media and public's reaction, and the broader implications for international sport and politics. This episode provides an in-depth look at how football can both unite and divide, reflecting on Orwell's critique and its relevance to today's sports culture. 00:00 Introduction: The Dark Side of Sports 01:05 George Orwell's Influence on Sports 01:49 The Political Context of the 1945 Moscow Tour 02:47 The Goodwill Tour: Ideals vs. Reality 05:00 The Soviet Union's Football Strategy 08:23 The Arrival of Dinamo Moscow 21:45 The First Match: Dinamo Moscow vs Chelsea 30:53 The Political Showdown: Arsenal vs Dinamo Moscow 32:31 The Final Game in Scotland 35:56 Soviet Propaganda and the Legacy of the Tour 40:36 Tactical Innovations and English Football's Response 47:36 George Orwell's Critique of Sport 53:18 Football's Role in Nationalism and International Relations 01:00:51 Concluding Thoughts on Orwell and Football Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    1h 3m

  8. 12/09/2025

    British Society: Through The Lens of Football

    Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by special guest and historian David Goldblatt. In this episode, they discuss David's new book, 'Injury Time,' which examines the impact of recent seismic events like Brexit, COVID-19, and populism on football in Britain. They delve into the popularity of football despite its numerous challenges, the economic disparities within the game, and the global obsession with the Premier League. The conversation also touches on the significance of football as a cultural and political space, the rise of women's football, and the ethical concerns surrounding state ownership of clubs. They also examine the role of fans and community. This episode provides a comprehensive look at the current state and the future of the beautiful game. 00:00 Introduction 00:55 The State of Football Today 03:21 Football as a National Obsession 07:41 Globalisation and Football's Cultural Impact 19:12 Economic Disparities in Football 21:35 Football Reflecting Social Inequalities 29:50 Football's Role in Social and Political Issues 31:20 The Role of Football in Society 33:38 Economic Inequality in Football 36:50 The Super League Controversy 41:25 Cultural Resistance and Football's Future 54:42 The Impact of COVID on Football 59:20 State Involvement in Football 01:02:11 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    1h 3m
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Welcome to The Overlap's football history podcast, It Was What It Was. Each week Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper will be talking about the key episodes in football history that have shaped the footballing world. The show will be discussing the best stories from football's past, giving insights to the personalities involved. the tales from behind the scenes and the impact they left. Join us at Football University! If you enjoy the podcast please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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