Send us Fan Mail What if understanding both sides of the veil — pre-mortal and post-mortal — is the key to making sense of mortality? Brent L. Top, retired BYU professor, author of more than 20 books, and sealer in the St. George Temple, returns to the podcast to teach two revolutionary doctrines of the Restoration: first, that we are literal offspring of heavenly parents with what he calls "celestial DNA" — spiritual capacities activated and refined by the Holy Ghost as we live the gospel; and second, that the work for the dead means every one of Heavenly Father's children will be given every opportunity to hear the fullness of the gospel and receive its ordinances, whether in this life or the next. "All are within the reach of pardoning mercy," Joseph Smith taught — a doctrine that, as Brother Top says, "is well calculated to enlarge the understanding and sustain the soul under troubles, difficulties, and distresses." Drawing on the three-act-play metaphor of Elder Quentin L. Cook, he teaches that walking into mortality without understanding pre-mortality and post-mortality is like arriving at the second act of a play with no knowledge of the first or third — and that the plan of salvation, when seen whole, answers the questions that otherwise make life seem arbitrary or cruel: why little children die, why people are born into vastly different circumstances, why faithful parents lose children to disbelief. As a sealer, he shares the deeply personal insight he calls "the as-if principle": in the sealing ordinance, through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, all the as-ifs of mortality — all wrongs, all handicaps, all injustices — are made as if they had never been. He testifies that sealing power is not only for the next life: it infuses marriages and families with a reclaiming, healing, strengthening power right now. President Joseph F. Smith taught that when God sends a messenger to any person, it is a family member — and Brother Top's witness is that those on both sides of the veil are working for our salvation, that our rescue attempts go beyond this life, and that the story is never finished being told. Q: What are the "two veils" in LDS doctrine? A: There is a veil of forgetfulness separating us from our pre-mortal life, and a veil separating us from those who have died. Brent L. Top teaches that both are veils, not concrete walls — and that understanding what happens on each side is essential to making sense of mortality. Elder Quentin L. Cook compared the plan of salvation to a three-act play: without the first act (pre-mortality) and the third act (the spirit world and resurrection), the second act (mortality) seems arbitrary and purposeless. Q: What is the "as if" principle in the temple sealing? A: In the sealing of children to parents, a phrase declares that the ordinance operates "as if" certain conditions had been met. Brother Top, a sealer in the St. George Temple, teaches that it is the Savior who makes all the "as ifs" of mortality possible: through the Atonement, a sinner can be made as if they never sinned, a person born with disabilities can be made as if those had never existed. The sealing links families to the Atonement of Jesus Christ so that all wrongs, injustices, and conditions of mortality are ultimately resolved. Q: Does the power of a temple sealing help families in this life, or only in the next? A: Both — and Brother Top emphasizes the "here and now" dimension. He teaches that sealing power infuses marriages and families with a reclaiming, healing, strengthening power in mortality: "Why I keep my covenants is not just so that I can be with my beloved wife and family in the next life, but that I can have the marriage and family I need in this life." He compares it to the gift of the Holy Ghost — the ordinance confers a power that those without it "don't have quite the same way." Q: When God sends a messenger, is it always a family member? A: President Joseph F. Smith taught that when God sees fit to send a message or a messenger to any person, it is a family member. Brother Top connects this to both veils: we have ancestors who knew us in the pre-mortal world, who are watching over us now from the spirit world, and who are — in his words — "rooting for us" from both sides. He shares Oscar McConkie Sr.'s final words to his children: "I am going now into the spirit world, but I will not stop loving you. I will not stop praying for you. I will not stop working for your salvation." ▶️ WATCH & LISTEN 🎬 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thinningoftheveil 🌐 Website: https://www.thinningoftheveil.com 🎧 Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thinning-of-the-veil/id1753511394 🟢 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6jWCfMHkZXwnSwy2b98J4M 🎵 Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/a0a45561-d4c2-46d3-af8d-a1e967a21a25 📖 BOOK Patterns of Revelation — Spiritual Foundations for Hearing God's Voice: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BW36MG9B 📱 CONNECT Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thinning.of.the.veil Facebook Group (Gathering of the Gatherers): https://www.facebook.com/groups/1429562078443774 Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/thinningoftheveil 💛 SUPPORT THE SHOW Venmo: https://account.venmo.com/u/thinningoftheveil PayPal: Support the show
