LifeSci Continuum with Bill Schick

Bill Schick FCMO

I'm a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer for life science companies and I help them accelerate product adoption & make marketing work.This is LifeSci Continuum, where we explore the unbroken sequence of innovation, strategy, & growth in the life sciences industry. Join us as we explore the insights and experiences of founders, product managers, commercialization leaders, & marketing pros in the field. Discover the strategies & tactics that have worked for them, hear about their challenges and triumphs, and gain valuable knowledge to help your company thrive.From commercialization to full life cycle product management and marketing, learn about the latest trends in pharmaceutical, biotech, med device and healthcare marketing, product management, and branding.From groundbreaking startups to exit-stage brands, we uncover the secrets to success in the life sciences, reflecting the ongoing evolution that defines our industry.As a fractional CMO in the life sciences, I can help you establish, track, and optimize the right metrics and KPIs that align with your business objectives. This includes defining what success looks like for your specific stage of growth, whether it's early lead generation, nurturing prospects, or moving toward commercialization. I'll ensure that your marketing efforts are measured using data-driven insights, helping to identify opportunities, optimize campaigns, and make informed decisions to accelerate growth and ROI while minimizing wasteful efforts. For more specialized help with growth, check out my firm, Mesh.https://meshagency.com/ 

  1. Prepare For What Investors & the FDA Are Really Looking For | Tim Looney

    5D AGO

    Prepare For What Investors & the FDA Are Really Looking For | Tim Looney

    Need investor traction now? Bring in a fractional CMO  to package your story, de-risk your milestones, and turn Tim’s engineering plan into an investable go-to-market narrative. Let’s align tech, timeline, and TAM. Book a strategy call with Bill. https://meshagency.com/fcmo-fractional-cmo-fractional-marketing/ Founder-friendly, investor-real talk. In his second visit to LSC, Tim Looney (Northeast Biomedical) explains how to turn prototypes into investor-ready products: DHF done right, phased engineering plans, avoiding “jam it through” FDA myths, and picking the right money. https://www.linkedin.com/in/tlooney/  00:00 Why do MedTech founders get stuck after early traction 03:15 What do investors actually want to see before funding 07:10 Why does skipping process slow FDA and fundraising 11:45 What documentation really matters for MedTech devices 16:40 How should founders think about de risking early 21:30 What makes a MedTech product truly investor ready Investors aren’t funding your cool device—they’re underwriting your ability to de-risk it. In this episode, Tim Looney (President & CEO, Northeast Biomedical) returns, breaking down the investor lens for med-tech: show a credible timeline, a traceable design history file, and a stage-gated plan that prevents “surprise” testing at the eleventh hour. We dig into DHF essentials, how to avoid endless prototyping, and why “let the FDA tell us what’s missing” is the slowest, riskiest strategy. Tim shares a standout success—an EU class III clearance in two weeks thanks to a meticulous dossier—and a cautionary tale where a buyer inherited gaps and had to backfill under FDA scrutiny. We also talk capital: why the color of money matters, how to spot investors who add operational value, and the signaling power of ISO 13485 systems, external advisors, and documented learnings. If you’re preparing for investors—or realizing you should have prepared earlier—connect with Bill.  Translate conviction into execution-ready roadmaps and pressure-test investor fit before urgency takes over. https://meshagency.com/fcmo-fractional-cmo-fractional-marketing/  #MedTech #RegulatoryStrategy #InvestorReadiness

    26 min
  2. Develop Your Go To Market Strategy for Your Real Customer | Shehla Rooney

    FEB 6

    Develop Your Go To Market Strategy for Your Real Customer | Shehla Rooney

    Built a life-science product that works, but growth stalled? Talk to Bill about diagnosing your commercialization path before you spend years selling to the wrong buyer. https://meshagency.com/fcmo-fractional-cmo-fractional-marketing/  Physical therapist turned founder Shehla Rooney (GoKnee, https://www.linkedin.com/in/shehlarooney/ ) shares how early success selling to clinicians masked a deeper problem and why realizing the patient was the true buyer changed everything. This podcast focuses on the misfires, mindset shifts, and lessons that reshaped her go-to-market strategy. 00:00 Why growth stalls when founders guess their customer 06:10 Early assumptions and selling to the wrong audience 13:45 The moment customer discovery changed the strategy 21:20 Selling the solution instead of the product 28:40 How listening replaced guessing in go to market decisions 36:05 Applying one marketing lesson across the business 43:30 A simple playbook for founders building real growth If you’ve built something that works but growth still stalled, this episode will feel uncomfortably familiar. In Part 1 of this conversation, I talk with physical therapist and GoKnee founder Shehla Rooney about how a breakthrough recovery tool and years of hard work were slowed by one fundamental mistake: selling to the wrong audience. Shehla walks through the early illusion of traction from her professional network, why marketing to PTs and surgeons felt logical (but wasn’t), and how promoting features instead of outcomes missed what patients actually cared about. She also draws a powerful parallel between bad marketing and bad clinical care, skipping diagnosis and jumping straight to treatment. Before you spend another dollar on marketing, get clear on who actually converts. DM Bill for the ICP Clarity Worksheet. #MedTech #DigitalHealth #gotomarketstrategy

    40 min
  3. How to Build a Winning Life Science Sales Team | Pete Tortorelli

    JAN 21

    How to Build a Winning Life Science Sales Team | Pete Tortorelli

    Need go-to-market that sales actually uses? Book a 20-minute Fractional CMO consultation with Bill to align marketing, VOC, and field execution—so reps stop “pushing” and start solving.  - Visit https://meshagency.com/fcmo-fractional-cmo-fractional-marketing/ to learn more.  Pete Tortorelli (GM/Managing Director, Revvity) breaks down how to build life science sales teams that scientists actually trust. We cover application-specific selling, channel orchestration, hiring for integrity and curiosity, and why the best reps sometimes refer business to competitors. Connect with Pete: linkedin.com/in/ptortorelli 00:00 Why life science sales fails without market awareness 00:10 Building sales teams scientists actually trust 01:55 From accidental sales teams to intentional design 05:07 How to sell to scientists without “selling” 07:43 Do life science sales reps need a science background 09:58 Tracking trends that reshape lab workflows 11:41 Selling by solving real lab pain points 17:21 Why integrity beats short-term revenue 27:39 When sales drives product innovation Life science buyers aren’t shopping for hype; they’re validating hypotheses. Pete Tortorelli led Omni through growth and acquisition and now runs the business inside Revvity.  In this episode, he lays out how to build a sales model scientists respect: application-specific proof, honest discovery, and rigorous support from an app's “cavalry.” We get tactical: how to use interrogative selling to find true constraints (budget, staffing, SOPs), when to cut bait, and why referring a misfit project to a competitor can earn long-term trust. On team-building, Pete favors integrity and curiosity over perfect CVs, then surrounds reps with fast, accurate answers. Finally, we look forward. Your advantage isn’t a louder pitch; it’s a tighter proof. 3 Secrets to add to Pete’s Sales Model 1. Sales is your fastest learning loop — faster than product, faster than marketing. In life science, sales isn’t just about closing deals; it’s about learning in real time. If you’re paying attention, sales will tell you things your dashboards never will — before you’ve spent months building the wrong thing. The founders who win are the ones who treat sales as an intelligence engine, not just a revenue function. They expect their sales motion to surface insight weekly, not quarterly. If your sales conversations aren’t teaching you something new about your market regularly, that’s a systems problem. 2. Trust isn’t built by good intentions — it’s built by systems that hold up under pressure. Everyone says they value integrity. That’s easy when things are going well. The real test comes when a rep is behind quota, a quarter is tight, or a big logo is dangling just out of reach. Trust doesn’t survive on values alone — it survives on structure. Founders have to design systems that make honesty the default, even when it’s inconvenient. If you’re relying on “good people” without guardrails, you’re putting your reputation at risk without realizing it. 3. The real constraint in modern labs isn’t budget — it’s cognitive load. It’s tempting to assume price is the blocker, but more often it’s mental bandwidth. Labs are understaffed, overworked, and drowning in complexity. The products that win aren’t always the most powerful; they’re the ones that simplify life. Less explaining to a boss or a collaborator. If your product asks someone to think harder, it needs to replace something else entirely — otherwise it just adds friction, no matter how impressive it is on paper. Follow Life Sci Continuum for real-world commercialization lessons from operators who’ve built, scaled, and learned the hard way. Visit https://meshagency.com/fcmo-fractional-cmo-fractional-marketing/ to learn more.  #LifeScienceSales #MedTechGTM #CommercialE

    38 min
  4. To Scale: Focus on Your Customer Needs | Mike Pyne

    JAN 21

    To Scale: Focus on Your Customer Needs | Mike Pyne

    Need product-market fit and pipeline fast? Book a 30-min MESH sprint audit with Bill. https://meshagency.com/lets-connect/  In this episode, Founder/CEO Mike Pyne, Medoh Health shares how he turned short-form video + AI into a doctor-specific knowledge platform that saves hours of repetitive patient Q&A. We cover testing in the clinic (not just the cloud), communicating by text vs. QR, when to hire (and not hire) sales, and the founder mindset for speed without sacrificing quality. Connect with Mike: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-d-pyne-627864136/    00:00 – Why medical information fails patients 04:15 – What patients actually want from medical content 08:30 – Building the “TikTok for medical information” 12:45 – How to earn trust in patient education 17:20 – Using patient feedback to improve healthcare content 21:45 – What keeps patients engaged with medical information 26:10 – Why short-form medical education works 30:35 – Balancing accuracy, speed, and attention in healthcare 35:10 – Scaling a patient-first medical platform 39:20 – Lessons for building patient-centered health products What happens when you mix short-form video, a pile of patient questions, and a founder obsessed with real-world feedback? Mike Pyne, Founder & CEO of Medoh Health, walks us through his journey from medtech sales and marketing at Smith+Nephew to building a platform that digitizes a doctor’s knowledge and delivers it to patients 24/7. Mike kept hearing the same thing in clinics: doctors repeat themselves all day and patients still leave with uncertainty. The winning combo: doctor-specific short videos plus AI that answers only from the doctor’s own content and documents. We dig into building in the clinic, not just in the cloud: direct patient interviews, text-first delivery (ditch the QR friction), and shipping fast while staying safe. Mike shares the hiring calculus (why you shouldn’t add sales until PMF), how to delegate without losing speed, and how the phrase “TikTok for medical info” unlocked stakeholder understanding. If you’re a founder in healthtech or any regulated space, this is a masterclass in iterative learning and pragmatic velocity. Three Practical Pro Tips 1. Design for the moment your customer stops paying attention One thing that shows up between the lines of Mike’s story is this uncomfortable truth: momentum stalls because life moves on. Patients forget. Clinicians get pulled into the next room. Founders assume adoption happens just because something is valuable. It doesn’t. As a founder, your real design challenge is what happens after the conversation ends. The teams that win plan explicitly for that drop. If your product only works when people are focused, it won’t survive contact with reality. 2. Separate “people like it” from “people will actually use it.” Founders get great at collecting positive feedback. “This is awesome.” “I’d totally use this.” “This would save us so much time.” And then… nothing changes. No behavior shift. No habit formation. No adoption. They miss the mark because they’re confusing agreement with integration. The hard work lives in understanding how something fits into a real workflow, not an ideal one. Who owns it when the founder isn’t around? 3. Treat distribution as a trust decision, not a tech decision Mike’s QR-code lesson is a classic founder trap: building something logical instead of something human. People adopt tools because they arrive through channels they already trust. No one actually cares about elegance. As a founder, it’s worth stepping back and asking: If adoption requires users to learn a new behavior and trust a new channel at the same time, you’ve doubled the risk. Book a 30-min MESH sprint audit with Bill. https://meshagency.com/lets-connect/  #DigitalHealth #MedTechMarketing #ProductMarke

    43 min
  5. The Founder’s Playbook for Med Device Engineering | Tim Looney

    12/29/2025

    The Founder’s Playbook for Med Device Engineering | Tim Looney

    Have the engineering plan but need the market plan? Hire a Fractional CMO to de-risk launch and accelerate adoption.  Book a strategy call.  https://meshagency.com/fcmo-fractional-cmo-fractional-marketing/ President/CEO Tim Looney (Northeast Biomedical) breaks down the engineering plan founders actually need (DHF, phased reviews, and right-sized documentation) to move faster without tripping FDA/CE. We cover startup blind spots, big-company constraints, and how to “do it right once” so you don’t pay for DHF remediation later. Tim’s LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tlooney/  00:00 Why med device engineering fails 00:16 Who is Tim Looney 03:04 What founders miss in early engineering 06:11 Why the FDA rejects “it’s all in my head” 08:13 Hidden tests and documentation you must plan for 12:24 Move fast the right way 15:53 How phased engineering speeds up approvals 20:23 How to avoid costly founder mistakes 24:44 Why the system blocks unprepared founders 27:11 Case study on fast clearance done correctly   In medtech, “move fast and break things” breaks people. Tim Looney leads Northeast Biomedical, a product development and contract manufacturing firm that lives where speed meets compliance. In this episode, Tim explains the engineering plan most founders skip: phase-gated reviews, checklists that prevent “oops” moments at submission, and documentation that’s lean early but complete enough to avoid costly DHF remediation. We unpack startup blind spots (biocompatibility, shelf-life, packaging, verification), how larger companies get stuck in resource bottlenecks, and why the fastest path to clearance is often meticulous—just not bloated. Tim also shares a class-III European dossier story that moved in weeks because the package was complete, plus practical guidance for early founders on prototypes, notebooks, and IP strategy. If you’re building the next device, this conversation is your map to “right the first time.”  https://meshagency.com/fcmo-fractional-cmo-fractional-marketing/ #MedTech #MedicalDevices #GoToMarket

    35 min
  6. The IPO Playbook: Evidence, Agility, and Investor Trust | David Iannetta

    12/29/2025

    The IPO Playbook: Evidence, Agility, and Investor Trust | David Iannetta

    Not seeing investor-grade pipeline from your science? Bill is the Fractional CMO for complex medtech & life-sci GTM. Book a 20-min diagnostic.  https://meshagency.com/fcmo-fractional-cmo-fractional-marketing/  • Connect with Dave Iannetta on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dave-iannetta/ • Subscribe to Bill Schick’s Newsletter on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7154518390324281344 00:00 The IPO Playbook 02:30 Being Unprepared for IPO 04:30 Data & Market Validation 06:05 FDA Changes in 2025 09:27 Tips for Creating an IPO Deck 13:23 Messaging for IPO About this episode: Early funding rounds reward vision, but the IPO process rewards verification. David joins me again to walk through the journey from institutional capital to public offering and shows how every assumption that once lived in a slide note must now survive legal discovery. He recalls deals that stalled because total-addressable-market figures lacked primary sources and others that crumbled when an FDA setback forced a last-minute pivot the team could not explain. His core message: a marketer’s real job at this level is to translate complex clinical value into a dollar-based opportunity that bankers can model and retail investors can grasp in two sentences. Three IPO Musts:  1. Treat market sizing the way a biostatistician treats a primary endpoint. Start with bottom-up data such as procedure volumes from CMS, epidemiology registries, or detailed purchase-order pulls from group-purchasing organizations. Build the model cell by cell so any analyst can trace volume, price, and adoption-rate assumptions back to a public document or a signed customer quote. Keep totals in three buckets—total addressable market, serviceable market, and realistically obtainable share—so you are never accused of using a single inflated figure. A grounded model not only survives diligence but also shapes banker sentiment; if you claim a four-billion-dollar market and the underwriters later pin it at one, you can lose half your valuation before the first road-show slide appears. 2. Create a living archive for every assumption that feeds your financials. Store PDFs of journal articles, invoices that justify cost inputs, raw spreadsheets, and even audio transcripts of expert interviews in a well-indexed data room. Each time a figure changes—perhaps because new coding data arrive or the FDA requests a larger trial—update the archive and note the version in your working deck. Bankers, lawyers, and syndicate analysts will audit each cell in your spreadsheet against its original source; if you have to scramble for proof after the S-1 is filed you will burn weeks, pay extra legal fees, and lose the momentum that makes an IPO window attractive in the first place. 3. Build your narrative as a living document that flexes with every regulatory update or clinical read-out. Investors do not punish a company for hitting a speed bump; they punish it for ignoring the bump or pretending it did not happen. Hold regular “story scrubs” where marketing, clinical, and finance teams rewrite the pitch deck in light of the latest data, resize the market if endpoints shift, and script a clear path forward. Practising this iterative storytelling prevents the deer-in-the-headlights moment when a diligence call surfaces new questions and shows investors that the team can navigate uncertainty as confidently as it develops science. For more specialized help with growth, check out my firm, Mesh. https://meshagency.com/  #IPOReady #LifeScienceMarketing #MarketSizing

    16 min
  7. How to Launch a Successful Healthcare App | Peter Attia

    12/17/2025

    How to Launch a Successful Healthcare App | Peter Attia

    Ready to launch faster? A fractional CMO can help. Talk to MESH. https://meshagency.com/fcmo-fractional-cmo-fractional-marketing/ Founder Peter Attia built Family Vitals, an iOS app that helps families securely organize, collaborate on, and understand their medical records—without reinventing a risky data stack. We cover validation before code, scoping to ship, leveraging Apple Health, surviving App Store review, and why security is the feature. Great listen for solo founders and health-tech teams. Peter Attia, founder of Family Vitals: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peter-attia-90945052/  Family Vitals: https://www.familyvitals.com/  00:00 Why this app began, family pain to product idea 02:14 What Family Vitals does (iOS, collaboration, AI) 04:18 Solo founder build, whiteboard to design to code with AI 07:25 Why iOS first, cost, HIPAA, and not hosting data 10:02 MVP focus and early validation (surveys, willingness to pay) 15:10 Tech surprises and Apple review realities 19:34 Platform leverage, Apple Health vs rebuilding integrations 20:11 What he would do differently, talk to devs, prelaunch list, outsource brand 28:35 Setbacks and plan B during review 30:20 Security and trust, document everything, treat data as core Peter, a software engineer with a data/analytics background, built Family Vitals, an iOS app that lets families securely store, organize, and collaborate on medical records, notes, images, and lab reports—while pulling data via Apple Health from thousands of clinics and hospitals. He explains why he chose iOS first (security posture, cost, infrastructure leverage), how AI sped up 30–40% of the busywork (but not the architecture), and why scoping ruthlessly was the only way to ship. We dig into market validation (conversations + survey with the “sandwich generation”), navigating a multi-month App Store review for medical data, and the choice to use the platform’s rails rather than roll his own HIPAA-heavy backend. Peter shares what he’d change—start lead collection months earlier and partner on branding/positioning sooner—and leaves builders with a clear mantra: validate early, document security, and stack your work so launch momentum isn’t an accident. 3 Founder Moves Peter Used to Ship Faster Tip 1 — Validate before you code (and build a waitlist): Run 15–25 quick interviews with your target “family manager” persona + a lightweight 4–6 question survey to size the pain and test willingness to pay. Stand up a 1-page teaser + email capture and drive $10–$20/day traffic for two weeks. Green-light if you see ≥50–60% positive intent, ≥20% signup rate, and clear top-5 “must-have” features. Parking-lot the rest for later. Tip 2 — Ruthless scope via platform leverage: Pick ONE platform that removes risk. For health data, iOS first can unlock HealthKit/Apple Health connectivity, native security rails, and faster build loops. Design your MVP around the smallest end-to-end journey (e.g., import record → add note → share with family) and trim anything that slows App Review.  Tip 3 — Security-first from Day 0 (document everything): Assume regulators, platforms, and partners will ask “how do you protect PHI?” Create a living security pack: data-flow diagram, storage decisions (avoid holding what you don’t need), access controls, audit trails, breach response, and privacy policy. Align features to what platforms will approve now (text-only chat before advanced agents, etc.). This prep shortens review cycles and builds user trust you can market—screenshots of your security posture, not just UI. Need go-to-market firepower? Book MESH. https://meshagency.com/fcmo-fractional-cmo-fractional-marketing/ #HealthTech #FounderJourney #DigitalHealth

    34 min
  8. The 3 Branding Mistakes That Stop Product Growth | Jim Macleod

    09/22/2025

    The 3 Branding Mistakes That Stop Product Growth | Jim Macleod

    Find out how a Fractional CMO can get the right questions answered from the right audience. https://meshagency.com/fcmo-fractional-cmo-fractional-marketing/ - Connect with Bill https://www.linkedin.com/in/founderandcdo/ Jim MacLeod Designer-turned-marketer, brand systems builder, and author of The Visual Marketer—a field guide that translates design fundamentals for marketers and founders. - Connect with Jim MacLeod: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmacleod/ - Jim’s Book: https://book.jimmacleod.com/ Struggling to make great tech look inevitable? Bring in MESH as your fractional CMO to turn brand, web, and product storytelling into qualified pipeline. Designer-turned-full-stack marketer Jim MacLeod breaks down why “good enough” visuals stall growth, how he led a 90-day rebrand without losing brand equity, and the small design choices that decide whether your product gets tried…or ignored. 00:00 Intro — brand fragmentation & growth roadblocks 01:12 Meet Jim Macleod — design, marketing & brand systems 04:17 Case study — 90-day rebrand under Apple-style deadlines 08:27 Why keep the purple? Modernizing without losing equity 12:25 Outdated design vs. innovative tech — fixing the disconnect 16:08 Sales decks & storytelling — shaping the brand narrative 18:10 Customer support as brand — protecting what matters in acquisitions 20:32 Bridging design & marketing — lessons from The Visual Marketer 25:00 Three essentials founders can’t DIY: logo, colors, consistency 31:00 Why first impressions matter — design as trust and credibility 35:09 Trade shows & booth design — why presentation drives traffic 39:10 When to invest in brand — moving beyond referrals 42:12 Copy vs. design — which comes first, and why both matter 45:57 Final thoughts, book link & wrap-up Founders swear “the tech sells itself.” Buyers don’t. In this episode, Jim MacLeod shows how small visual decisions snowball into trust, attention, and adoption. He walks us through a compressed 90-day rebrand, explaining why his team kept the legacy color (because the market already mapped it to credibility) while modernizing everything around it.  Brand Swagger: Jim’s 3 No-BS Design Wins - 1) Codify your visual system—once.  Stop “designing from scratch” every asset. Build a one-page brand kit that nails your type hierarchy, color roles, spacing grid, icon style, motion rules, and image treatment (e.g., duotone, depth, lighting). Turn those into tokens in your CMS/Slide master so the choices are baked in. Result: faster production, fewer off-brand detours, and a look that’s unmistakably you across web, decks, UI, and booths. - 2) Color with intent, not taste.  Pick an ownable anchor color (distinct in your category), pair it with two neutrals for clinical credibility, and reserve one accent for calls-to-action and data highlights. Pressure test it in the wild: accessibility contrast, print vs. screen, scrubs/OR lighting, tradeshow LEDs, and dark mode. If it fails anywhere your buyers live, it’s not your color system—it’s a liability. - 3) Design the first impression you can’t afford to miss.  Prioritize the touchpoints that actually sell: homepage hero, product shell/packaging, sales deck front half, and 10×10 tradeshow booth. Make them story-led (problem → outcome → proof), ruthless on clarity (one idea per screen), and visually scannable at six feet. Then measure like a grown-up: booth dwell time, deck completion rate, hero click-through, and demo requests tied to those assets. If it doesn’t move pipeline, it’s just decoration. For more specialized help with growth, check out my firm, Mesh. https://meshagency.com/  #DesignThatSells #MedTechMarketing #FractionalCMO

    47 min

About

I'm a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer for life science companies and I help them accelerate product adoption & make marketing work.This is LifeSci Continuum, where we explore the unbroken sequence of innovation, strategy, & growth in the life sciences industry. Join us as we explore the insights and experiences of founders, product managers, commercialization leaders, & marketing pros in the field. Discover the strategies & tactics that have worked for them, hear about their challenges and triumphs, and gain valuable knowledge to help your company thrive.From commercialization to full life cycle product management and marketing, learn about the latest trends in pharmaceutical, biotech, med device and healthcare marketing, product management, and branding.From groundbreaking startups to exit-stage brands, we uncover the secrets to success in the life sciences, reflecting the ongoing evolution that defines our industry.As a fractional CMO in the life sciences, I can help you establish, track, and optimize the right metrics and KPIs that align with your business objectives. This includes defining what success looks like for your specific stage of growth, whether it's early lead generation, nurturing prospects, or moving toward commercialization. I'll ensure that your marketing efforts are measured using data-driven insights, helping to identify opportunities, optimize campaigns, and make informed decisions to accelerate growth and ROI while minimizing wasteful efforts. For more specialized help with growth, check out my firm, Mesh.https://meshagency.com/