The Messy Leadership Podcast

Christi Scarrow
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  • MANAGEMENT

Managing people is hard. You’re constantly juggling the need to give constructive feedback, hold others accountable, and inspire change. "Messy Leadership" is here to help you navigate these complexities. Hosted by Christi Scarrow twice a month, this podcast features candid conversations with seasoned leaders who share their personal stories, struggles, and strategies to navigate the chaos and thrive. If you’re ready to embrace the mess and lead with confidence, clarity, and authenticity, this podcast is for you.

  1. 06/10/2025

    A Coach Mindset for Everyday Leadership (With Tara Greenwood)

    Host Christi Scarrow interviews Tara Greenwood, CFO at GoCold Solutions, about leadership lessons and coaching techniques. Tara emphasizes the shift from directing to coaching, highlighting the importance of asking questions to understand and empower team members. She advises leaders to model desired behaviors, provide feedback, and foster open dialogue. Tara stresses the need for authentic leadership, recognizing personal strengths and weaknesses, and surrounding oneself with complementary skills. Influencing organizational culture involves rewarding desired behaviors and fostering accountability. Tara concludes that effective leadership is about becoming the best version of oneself. Action Items -Practice asking team members “Why?” to uncover the reasons behind actions -Observe and listen instead of providing ‘direct’ guidance -Be authentic in your leadership and supplement your weakness with the strengths of others. -To build accountability, role model and recognize the behaviours you want to see. -Recognize and reward actions that align with the culture you want to build Outline Lessons in Coaching vs. Directing  -Tara reflects on an early career lesson, emphasizing the shift from being an expert to trusting her team. -She explains how listening and asking questions helps the team find solutions, crucial for growth and future roles. -Christi notes the challenge of shifting from a “doer” mindset to coaching and asks Tara about her go-to coaching questions. Effective Coaching Techniques -Tara recommends asking “why” to uncover the reasons behind actions. -She highlights how questions aimed at understanding often help team members identify their own obstacles. -Christi agrees, saying good coaches help people discover their own solutions. -Tara adds that not knowing all the answers naturally pushes her into a coaching approach. Helping New Managers Transition -Tara stresses observing, giving feedback, and holding open conversations with new managers. -She notes that managing people is a continuous learning process and personal growth journey. -Christi calls it “messy leadership” and asks about Tara’s current challenges and strategies. Managing Diverse Teams -Tara discusses managing teams with varied styles and motivations. -She values bringing together people with diverse approaches to challenge and build ideas. -Tara shares she asks what’s important to each person, observes reactions, and keeps open conversations. Advice for New Managers -Tara advises being comfortable with one’s authentic leadership style, focusing on strengths, and being honest about weaknesses. -She suggests surrounding oneself with people who complement your strengths and clarifying roles accordingly. -Christi agrees, noting the importance of recognizing strengths and areas for improvement. Influencing Organizational Culture -Tara emphasizes modeling the right behaviors and rewarding actions aligned with the desired culture. -She explains that a true culture of accountability involves individuals owning their actions. -Christi shares her passion for accountability and agrees with Tara’s insights. Final Thoughts on Leadership -Tara emphasizes the importance of knowing your authentic leadership style and leaning into it. -She believes authenticity is the key to becoming the best leader. -Christi thanks Tara for her insights and encourages listeners to explore more leadership resources and connect with Tara. Useful Links Host: Christi's Web Page Guest: GoCold Solutions Lighthouse NINE Group: Website Contributors Music: All The Fixings by Zachariah Hickman Editing: tribe74

    15 min

  2. 05/20/2025

    Leading with Humour in Tough Times (with Scott Lorimer)

    Host Christi Scarrow talks to Scott Lorimer, VP of Sales at Campbell's. Scott shares leadership insights rooted in his early work at McDonald’s. He emphasizes how combining hard work with fun has been foundational in shaping his career. Lorimer reflected on the challenges of team motivation and giving feedback.  He advocates for strategies that "create flight, not drag" and tailoring support to individual motivations. He underlines the importance of authenticity, consistency, humility, and humor in effective leadership. While humor can ease stress and boost morale, he noted the need for sensitivity to different personalities and situations. Action Items -Intentionally add humor and positivity to your leadership, while being mindful of timing and tone.-Take time to understand individual team member motivations and provide tailored support.-Give direct feedback in a way that encourages growth—“creating flight, not drag.”-Stay humble and consistently seek feedback to evolve as a leader. Outline Scott Lorimer’s Early Career Lessons -Scott reflects on his first job at McDonald’s, where he learned the value of working hard and having fun.-He recounts his journey from crew to swing shift manager and how that shaped his leadership.-He shares their mantra of “If you have time to lean, you have time to clean” which encourages people to find something to do, work hard and provide value The Importance of Fun in Leadership -Scott shares how humor helps him manage stress and maintain a positive team culture.-He discusses the delicate balance between humor and sarcasm and being mindful of how humor is received.-Christi adds her perspective on dark humor and the complexity of respecting different senses of humor. Balancing Stress and Leadership -Scott emphasizes staying calm and lighthearted during tough situations.-He quotes, “Leaders get the behaviors they exhibit or tolerate,” highlighting the power of example.-He stresses the importance of giving timely feedback that uplifts rather than demoralizes.-A personal story illustrates how direct feedback helped him grow. Motivating Teams and Providing Feedback -Scott explores the difficulty of motivating teams and giving effective feedback in fast-paced environments.-He suggests a feedback approach that blends directness with positivity.-He stresses the importance of understanding individual motivations and investing time in team relationships -He champions authenticity, consistency, humility, and the value of seeking feedback as a leader. Advice for New Leaders -New leaders should focus on enabling others to achieve results—not doing all the work themselves.-Scott shares how early feedback helped him see the value of empowering his team.-He stresses authenticity, self-awareness, and consistency.-Finally, he encourages leaders to seek feedback and stay thoughtful and curious in team interactions. Useful Links Host: Christi's Web Page Guest: Campbell’s  Lighthouse NINE Group: Website Contributors Music: All The Fixings by Zachariah Hickman Editing: tribe74

    25 min

  3. 05/06/2025

    Let the Talent be the Talent (With Judy Whittaker)

    Host Christi Scarrow and Judy Whittaker explore the challenges and lessons of leadership, with a focus on people management. Judy shares her evolution from entrepreneur to corporate leader, emphasizing the role of coaching and vulnerability. A pivotal conversation between the two—over 20 years ago—sparked Judy's commitment to better leadership. The discussion highlights emotional intelligence, mental health, and aligning leadership with personal values. Judy encourages leaders to embrace mentorship, ongoing learning, and open communication.. Action Items -Read "Atomic Habits" by James Clear, "Think Like a Monk" by Jay Shetty and "The Atlas of the Heart" and "The Power of Vulnerability" by Brené Brown -Recognize that dropping people into people roles will not set them up for success.  Invest in building coaching skills for your managers and yourself. -Develop emotional intelligence by finding a mentor that shares the same values as you -Embrace vulnerability and ask the right questions to learn what your team needs to feel valued Outline Judy Whittaker's Early Leadership Challenges -Christi introduces Judy, noting her extensive background and their long professional relationship. -Judy reflects on moving from entrepreneurship to corporate leadership, shifting from self-reliance to managing a team. -She recalls a key conversation with Christi that launched her journey to become a better coach and motivator. -Christi also shares her own growth and takeaways from their shared experiences. The Power of Vulnerability in Leadership -Judy discusses how embracing vulnerability helped her connect with her team and grow as a leader. -Christi highlights the difficulty of leading without prior experience and understanding team motivations. -Judy notes many leaders are promoted for technical skills, not people skills, underscoring the need for coaching and mentoring. -Both agree vulnerability builds trust and respect within teams. Emotional Intelligence & Mental Health in Leadership -Judy shares her journey of self-awareness, emphasizing emotional intelligence and mental health. -Christi observes that younger leaders are more open to these topics than previous generations. -Judy encourages therapy, coaching, or mentorship for leaders seeking growth. -Both highlight the importance of self-care in balancing personal and professional responsibilities. Building Trust & Supporting Team Members -Judy recounts helping a volunteer feel valued, showing the power of listening and understanding. -She stresses avoiding assumptions and instead seeking to understand what drives team behavior. -Judy advises creating safe spaces for open dialogue. -Vulnerability, again, is seen as key to fostering a supportive and trusting team culture. Practical Tips for Effective Leadership -Judy recommends staying curious, always learning, and finding trusted mentors. -Christi shares her success with peer coaching and the value of walking meetings for authentic communication. -Judy urges leaders to align their values with their leadership style and choose mentors who reflect those values. -Authenticity and vulnerability are highlighted as core elements for motivating others. Final Thoughts & Recommended Resources -Judy reinforces the value of vulnerability and lifelong learning, sharing her go-to leadership reads. -Christi thanks Judy, reflecting on their progress and growth over the years. -They close by affirming the ongoing journey of leadership and the enduring importance of vulnerability. Useful Links Host: Christi's Web Page Guest: TBD Lighthouse NINE Group: Website Contributors Music: All The Fixings by Zachariah Hickman Editing: tribe74

    27 min

  4. 04/22/2025

    People Before Policies: The Art of Being Human (with Stéphane Grenier)

    Host Christi Scarrow and Stéphane Grenier, founder of Mental Health Innovations Consulting, discussed his leadership journey, emphasizing the “leaders eat last” philosophy—putting employee needs before personal interests. Grenier criticized rigid organizational policies and stressed flexible, people-first leadership. He also called out token mental health initiatives like Mental Health Awareness Week and Bell Let's Talk Day, advocating instead for cultures built on genuine care and peer support. He emphasized that shifting organizational culture to support mental health is a long-term, patient process. Action Items -Establish a culture of care where employees feel empowered to support each other.-Avoid short-term fixes; commit to a multi-year process for lasting mental health support.-Be patient and persistent—results may not be immediate, but they will come. Outline Leadership Lessons from the Military -Stéphane recalls his military leadership experiences, where inspiring people mattered more than raising voices. -He embraced the “leaders eat last” mindset—leaders ensure employees have what they need to thrive. -Success comes from focusing on people, not just performance metrics. Balancing Performance and Individual Needs -Stéphane argues for policies that are flexible and adaptable to real human needs. -He critiques rigid bereavement rules and shares a general’s advice: make exceptions when policies fail people. -Leaders must be courageous and prioritize humanity over uniformity. The Role of Policies and Flexibility -Policies should guide, not dictate, leadership behavior. -Leaders need the courage to bend policies when necessary to support their people. -A people-first approach sometimes requires risk tolerance and rule-bending. Creating a Culture of Care -Stéphane critiques symbolic gestures like awareness weeks, which lack lasting impact. -True care comes from continuous, meaningful efforts to value and support staff. -Leaders must cultivate environments where peer support is natural and encouraged. Empowering Peers for Support -Leaders should not try to do everything alone—they must enable peer support systems. -It’s about creating an open, trusting culture where employees reach out to one another. -Employees should feel seen, supported, and valued by both leaders and peers. The Long-Term Investment in Mental Health -Stéphane identifies three leadership mindsets: dismissive, complacent, and transformational. -Only those committed to real change will see deep, lasting results. -Organizational culture shifts are slow but worth the time and effort. The Importance of Patience and Long-Term Investment -Culture change is like buying an air conditioner—it’s a long-term investment, not an instant fix. -Leaders must stay focused on building the right conditions and be prepared to wait for results. -Consistent effort pays off in the form of sustainable well-being and improved morale. The Role of Leaders in Setting Conditions -Leaders don’t need all the answers—they need to create the right environment for support to flourish. -Empowering others is key to a strong, self-sustaining culture of care. -Patience, empathy, and long-term thinking are the foundations of effective leadership. The Impact of Economic Challenges -Even during tough times, mental health support should remain a priority. -Stéphane urges leaders not to freeze or cut back on these efforts when challenges arise. -A strong mental health culture is not a luxury—it’s a necessity for resilience. Useful Links Host: Christi's Web Page Guest: Mental Health Innovations Lighthouse NINE Group: Website Contributors Music: All The Fixings by Zachariah Hickman Editing: tribe74

    24 min

  5. 04/08/2025

    What's Good for the Goose Might be Good for You (with Tracy Nolan)

    Host Christi Scarrow is joined by Tracy Nolan, Senior Vice President at Humana and Board Member at Dress for Success, who discusses her leadership journey, emphasizing the importance of understanding individual motivations and respecting different career goals. She highlights the value of listening and asking questions to foster understanding. Nolan shares a story about a goose that illustrates how you might be missing what truly matters to people. She also stresses the significance of providing and receiving feedback, noting that tough conversations are crucial for growth. Nolan advises leaders to balance their time between doing, managing, and leading, and to have regular check-ins with their teams for better performance and development. Action Items -Reflect on where you are spending your time as a leader - doing, managing, or leading. -Allow time to truly listen to, hear and act upon employee concerns, especially during times of change. -Schedule regular 1-on-1 check-ins with your team members, even if you don't have specific agenda items. -Seek out feedback, including 360-degree feedback, to identify areas for your own personal growth and development. Outline Early Career Lessons and Initial Leadership Challenges -Tracy shares an early career lesson from her time in retail, emphasizing the importance of understanding different motivations within a team. -Tracy recounts a story about pre-judging a colleague's work ethic, learning that not everyone has the same career ambitions. -Christi relates to Tracy's experience, discussing the challenge of judging others based on personal ambitions. The Importance of Listening in Leadership -Tracy discusses the importance of listening as a key leadership skill, emphasizing the need to seek understanding. -Christi agrees, noting the common mistake of new managers who feel they need to set the scene and give directions. -Tracy shares a story about holding weekly open calls during a company transition, highlighting the value of listening to team concerns. -She recounts a specific example where a team's concern about a goose in the parking lot led to a positive outcome, illustrating the impact of listening. Handling Tough Conversations and Feedback -Tracy talks about the challenges of having tough conversations with senior leaders, sharing a story about a leader with a temper. -She explains how providing feedback can lead to positive changes, even if it is initially met with resistance. -Christi and Tracy discuss the importance of feedback as a gift, even if it is initially difficult to accept. -Tracy shares her experience with a recent 360-degree feedback process, emphasizing the value of continuous learning and development. Balancing Doing, Managing, and Leading -Tracy advises leaders to assess where they are spending their time between doing, managing, and leading. -She suggests using a simple exercise to track time spent in these areas and adjust accordingly. -Tracy emphasizes the importance of regular one-on-one check-ins with team members to ensure open communication. -Christi agrees, noting that reflecting on time allocation can help improve team performance and reduce dysfunction. Final Thoughts on Leadership Journey -Tracy concludes by emphasizing that leadership is a continuous journey, requiring continuous learning and self-improvement. -She encourages leaders to help their teams learn and grow, which will lead to better results and a more fulfilling experience. -The conversation ends with a mutual appreciation for the importance of effective leadership and continuous improvement. Useful Links Host: Christi's Web Page Guest: TBD Lighthouse NINE Group: Website Contributors Music: All The Fixings by Zachariah Hickman Editing: tribe74

    24 min

  6. 03/18/2025

    Being Present During Difficult Times (With Preet Makkar)

    Host Christi Scarrow talks to Preet Makkar, the Head of Human Resources at Haleon, who emphasizes authenticity in leadership. She discusses managing personal and professional stressors, advocating for emotional regulation and self-awareness. Preet highlights how leaders' emotional states impact employee retention, noting how negativity can increase turnover. She stresses candid conversations, prepared feedback, and continuous growth through self-reflection and mentorship. She underscores vulnerability in building trust and effective leadership. Action Items -Engage in personal reflection and understand your triggers to get “out of the box” -Prepare for difficult conversations with specific examples and clear impact. -Schedule feedback when the recipient is in the right frame of mind. -Follow up after feedback to address questions or concerns. -Embrace positive feedback to identify strengths. -Reflect on triggering feedback for growth. Outline Lessons in Authentic Leadership -Preet stresses being an authentic leader and staying true to oneself. -Christi notes leadership's complexity due to maintaining an image. -Preet discusses challenges of staying present amid pressures. Emotional Regulation and Triggers -Preet highlights how personal struggles impact leadership and the importance of being present as  a leader. -Preet explains the concept of "going into the box" and its negative emotional effects and the financial and engagement risks of prolonged negativity. Building Trust and Self-Awareness -Preet emphasizes self-awareness and self-reflection in leadership. -Preet stresses work-life integration and self-investment post-pandemic. Vulnerability and Emotional Trust -Preet shares a personal story, drawing leadership parallels to parenting.  She highlights the need for openness and vulnerability's role in building trust. -Preet reflects on generational attitudes toward vulnerability and stresses that vulnerability fosters emotional trust. -Christi shares lessons from good and bad managers. Handling Difficult Conversations -Preet stresses the importance of candid conversations at work and at home.  -She shares the quote that “avoiding difficult conversations is trading in short term discomfort, for long term dysfunction.”  -Preet advises preparing for conversations with clarity and timing. Balancing Support and Psychological Safety -Christi and Preet discuss balancing support and psychological safety. -Preet critiques the "s*** sandwich" feedback approach and dvocates for clear, specific, and prepared feedback conversations. -She emphasizes follow-up and continuous discussions for growth. Receiving and Embracing Feedback -Christi asks about making feedback easier to receive. -Preet stresses embracing positive feedback and strength and shares a story about a triggering word and dealing with unresolved issues. -She advises thanking people for honest feedback and using it for growth. Self-Awareness and Continuous Development -Christi asks her to discuss the role of self-awareness in development. -Preet highlights learning through experiences and mentorship and encourages embracing feedback for self-improvement. -She warns against treating feedback as mere theory without action. Final Thoughts on Leadership -Emphasizes leadership as a responsibility and a chance for growth. -Encourages leaders to take their role seriously and be memorable. Useful Links Host: Christi's Web Page Guest: Haleon Lighthouse NINE Group: Web page Contributors Music: All The Fixings by Zachariah Hickman Editing: tribe74

    22 min

  7. 03/04/2025

    Building Trust by Walking Around (With David Singer)

    David Singer, President of Thomas Large and Singer, emphasizes the importance of listening in leadership, drawing from his sales background. He stresses the value of patience and active listening to understand employee concerns, leading to better outcomes. Singer suggests focusing on building empathy in his employees, advocating for regular constructive feedback and trust-building through personal connections. He highlights the need for leaders to be approachable and present, balancing formal feedback tools with personal interactions. Singer underscores the significance of trust and humanity in fostering effective leadership and team alignment. Action Items -Provide constructive feedback to managers regularly. -Carve out time to walk around and build trust with employees through personal conversations. -Use 360-degree reviews and external leadership training to improve leadership skills. -Develop emotional intelligence and self-awareness in high-performing team members lacking these skills. Outline The Importance of Active Listening -David Singer shares advice from a manager to use the "two ears, one mouth" rule, emphasizing listening. -He stresses the need to be patient and listen fully to employees to avoid misguided solutions., noting that leaders often know less about specific issues and should let employees communicate. -He highlights waiting through pauses to gather more information and admits to working on patience daily. Influencing Change and Building Trust -David suggests writing thoughts down to improve focus and creating a safe space for employees to share openly. -He notes that driving change requires understanding root issues and listening to all perspectives. -Specifically he shares that credibility is key and rushing into solutions can harm trust. Managing Talented and Building Empathy  -David shares the need to build empathy in employees; with less focus on driving performance. -He discusses providing regular constructive feedback and managing by walking around. -He recommends HR tools like 360-degree feedback reports help evaluate leadership and having a balance between personal connections with formalized feedback tools. Hybrid Work and Leadership -Singer acknowledges hybrid work challenges and emphasizes relationship-building. -He discusses using tools like 360-degree feedback and external training to maintain rapport and understand employee needs. Advice for Struggling Managers -David advises struggling managers to build trust and foster humanity in leadership. -He emphasizes the importance of personal connections and creating a safe space for employees are key. -Christi thanks David for sharing insights on building trust and humanity in leadership. Useful Links Host: Christi's Web Page Guest: Thomas, Large and Singer Lighthouse NINE Group: Website Contributors Music: All The Fixings by Zachariah Hickman Editing: tribe74

    20 min

  8. 02/18/2025

    The Art of Storytelling to Engage Your Team (With Teri Kingston)

    Teri Kingston, founder and CEO of Real Impact Speaking and TEDx coach, shares her entrepreneurial journey and the importance of storytelling in leadership. She emphasizes continuous learning in marketing and public speaking. Teri recounts her transition from volunteer coaching to a paid business model, guided by a business coach's advice, and underscores storytelling's role in team building and corporate culture, drawing on her work with the Ottawa Police Services and refugee organizations. She urges leaders to develop storytelling skills to enhance team communication and influence. Action Items -Incorporate storytelling in to corporate messing regularly -Consider training for leaders to use storytelling more effectively to engage their teams -Become a "story nerd," using books, courses, and coaches for skill development. Outline Journey and Early Lessons -Teri discusses the challenges of self-leadership as an entrepreneur, sharing insights on promoting and firing herself. -She highlights the need for continuous learning, particularly in marketing. Transitioning to a Business Model -Teri explains her shift from unpaid coaching to a thriving business, spurred by advice to value her skills. -She values follow-ups with past TEDx speakers to gauge their growth and impact. -Christi relates, appreciating the value of paid expertise. Storytelling in Leadership -Teri emphasizes storytelling as vital for team building and cultural shifts, citing work with OPS and refugee organizations. -She advises leaders to use storytelling to articulate vision and manage change effectively. Overcoming Nerves in Public Speaking -Teri identifies common speaker challenges like nerves and preparation, offering strategies to overcome them. -She mentions her joy in seeing speakers grow and an upcoming workshop focused on managing anxiety. -Through coaching, speakers discover personal growth and untapped capabilities. Practical Storytelling Tips -Teri advises leaders to recognize communication skills as valuable workplace tools. -She recommends resources like Matthew Dicks’ teachings and encourages capturing everyday stories for presentations. -Authenticity and vulnerability are key to building audience connections. Storytelling for Employee Engagement -Storytelling boosts engagement and helps leaders communicate succinctly in meetings. -Teri recounts a team’s success in using storytelling to convey their message effectively. -Christi acknowledges the need for practice in integrating storytelling. Resources for Aspiring Storytellers -Teri urges leaders to become "story nerds," suggesting books, courses, and hiring coaches for skill development. -She and Christi highlight Teri’s book as a valuable resource for listeners. -Teri expresses gratitude for the conversation and opportunity to share her expertise. Useful Links Host: Christi's Web Page Guest: Real Impact Speaking Teri’s Book: Get Ready for TED When TED is Ready for YOU! Lighthouse NINE Group: Web page Matthew Dicks: Making Stories Come Alive Contributors Music: All The Fixings by Zachariah Hickman Editing: tribe74

    20 min
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About

Managing people is hard. You’re constantly juggling the need to give constructive feedback, hold others accountable, and inspire change. "Messy Leadership" is here to help you navigate these complexities. Hosted by Christi Scarrow twice a month, this podcast features candid conversations with seasoned leaders who share their personal stories, struggles, and strategies to navigate the chaos and thrive. If you’re ready to embrace the mess and lead with confidence, clarity, and authenticity, this podcast is for you.

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