From the Horse's Mouth: Intrepid Conversations with Phil Fersht

Phil Fersht
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As technology rapidly evolves, the world has undergone a significant transformation. Society has shifted from being human-centered to a complex web of digital automation, AI, and human workers who support it. This rapid innovation outpaces regulations and threatens social mobility. The rise of AI presents a critical challenge: how can businesses and policymakers ensure that AI enhances, rather than hinders, human creativity and innovation? Automating routine tasks could free up people for roles requiring creativity, problem-solving, and emotional intelligence, but it demands a focus on continuous learning and digital literacy. The first season of From the Horse's Mouth: Intrepid Conversations with Phil Fersht explores the intersection of AI, work, and society, aiming to shape the future.

  1. 2d ago ·  Video

    Phil pods with KPMG Global Head of AI and Innovation Steve Chase: The AI leaders are materially breaking away from the pack

    In this episode of From the Horse’s Mouth, HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst Phil Fersht sits down with Steve Chase, Global Head of AI and Innovation at KPMG, for a candid conversation on where enterprise AI really is right now, and why this moment is different from every hype cycle that came before it.  Steve traces KPMG’s AI journey from its pre-generative “Lighthouse” incubator through the ChatGPT moment that convinced the firm this pace would be genuinely disruptive across audit, tax, and advisory, and every client sector. His read on today: we've moved out of the AI phase and into the agentic phase, an acceleration validated in the data, where harness layers are unlocking agents and pilots are moving strongly into production. And his sharpest observation: the leaders who were already ahead are now materially breaking away from the pack, and depending on where you sit, you might not even realize it’s happening until you feel far behind.  Phil and Steve dig into the questions leaders are wrestling with. Why the payoff won’t show up as a cost differential but as growth. Why the CFO conversation shifts the moment AI is framed as a growth-and-market-share narrative rather than a technology cost, and why CFOs, told that story, become the strongest advocates in the building. The “foot on the gas, foot on the brake” reality of token economics, and why CEO engagement is the single biggest unlock. KPMG’s data shows programs with a directly engaged CEO are roughly 3x more successful.  The conversation also gets into the human core of transformation. Why working with agents is a genuinely different skill from working with chatbots or delegating to employees, the reskilling KPMG has built on three-plus years of investment, and the crucial context layer, the crown jewels of the organization, and why falling behind on access pushes employees to shadow AI that exfiltrates your data. They land on what stays human: client trust, judgment, and the growing premium on sounding human in a world of LLM-written sameness.  Finally, Phil and Steve look ahead: services-as-software as a human transformation driven by technology, why enterprise debt is really a culture-and-talent problem more than a process problem, and the coming “Cambrian explosion” of discovery across healthcare, manufacturing, and beyond. This is AI 2.0, less about job losses, more about job change, speed, and the will to rewire the organization, and why it may be the most exciting time in business in a generation.  Chapters: 00:00 Intro: Steve Chase and KPMG’s AI journey 04:31 Out of the AI phase, into the agentic phase 06:14 Why leaders are materially breaking away from the pack 09:16 CFOs, consumption pricing, and framing AI as growth 13:54 Why the CEO’s engagement is the 3x unlock 19:43 Federated pilots and rewiring the workforce 25:17 The context layer and the shadow AI risk 26:03 Customer experience and the premium on sounding human 32:04 Services-as-software, enterprise debt, and the Cambrian explosion 35:12 AI 2.0: not job losses but job change   Learn more & connect HFS Research:  https://www.hfsresearch.com The podcast:  https://horsesmouthpodcast.com Phil Fersht on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht Steve Chase on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/steve-chase From the Horse’s Mouth: Intrepid Conversations with Phil Fersht brings together founders, executives, and contrarian thinkers for unfiltered conversations on the forces reshaping business and technology. Hosted by HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst, Phil Fersht.   #AI #EnterpriseAI #AgenticAI #FutureOfWork

    Phil pods with KPMG Global Head of AI and Innovation Steve Chase: The AI leaders are materially breaking away from the pack

  2. Aug 26 ·  Video

    Phil pods with BMO's Kristin Milchanowski: Quantum advantage arrives this year

    In this episode of From the Horse’s Mouth, HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst Phil Fersht speaks with Kristin Milchanowski, Chief AI & Quantum Officer and Founding Director, BMO Institute for Applied Artificial Intelligence & Quantum, BMO Financial Group.  Kristin explains why becoming an AI-first enterprise isn’t about deploying another technology. It’s about building the infrastructure to help every part of the business make better, faster decisions. She shares how a 200-year-old bank is embedding AI responsibly through strong governance, executive leadership, and a focus on business outcomes. Phil and Kristin discuss why revenue should take priority over efficiency, which decisions should always remain human, and how trust and judgment become even more valuable as AI becomes widely accessible.  They also explore the future of quantum computing, where AI and quantum complement each other to solve complex optimization challenges. Kristin shares why she believes quantum advantage will arrive this year and how it could reshape industries from financial services to pharmaceuticals and energy.  The conversation also covers AI investment, token economics, the shift toward smaller language models, and why organizations that translate intelligence into real business outcomes will lead the next wave of innovation.  Chapters  00:00 Intro & Kristin’s journey 01:59 The AI-first misconception 03:05 Frontier AI in a 200-year-old bank 04:40 Revenue over efficiency 06:13 What AI should never decide 07:31 Where AI meets quantum 09:44 When quantum goes mainstream 12:06 Token maxing: experiment or expense 13:17 Building an AI-native bank 14:06 Why relationships still win 15:06 The limits of LLMs 17:12 The rise of small language models 18:11 The premium on sounding human 19:48 The 2030 test 20:58 Closing  Learn more & connect HFS Research:  https://www.hfsresearch.com The podcast:  https://horsesmouthpodcast.com Phil Fersht on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht Kristin Milchanowski on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristinmilchanowski From the Horse’s Mouth: Intrepid Conversations with Phil Fersht brings together founders, executives, and contrarian thinkers for unfiltered conversations on the forces reshaping business and technology. Hosted by HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst, Phil Fersht.   #AI #QuantumComputing #Banking #FutureOfWork #EnterpriseAI #KristinMilchanowski #PhilFersht #HFSResearch

  3. Aug 12 ·  Video

    Phil pods with Firstsource MD & CEO Ritesh Idnani: There's no soft landing for a labor-first model in AI

    In this episode of From the Horse’s Mouth, HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst Phil Fersht speaks with Ritesh Idnani, MD & CEO of Firstsource, for a candid discussion on how AI is reshaping the business process services industry.   Ritesh argues that the next five years will define the future of BPO. The real divide won’t be between companies that adopt AI and those that don’t. It will be between those willing to reinvent their business models and those that aren’t. His message is clear: there is no soft landing for a labor-first model.    The conversation explores what it takes to succeed, including redesigning workflows instead of layering AI onto broken processes, shifting from seat-based pricing to outcome-based accountability, and building deep domain expertise. Ritesh also shares Firstsource's UnBPO strategy, its "intelligence that operates" approach, and how its Kairos agentic operating system is delivering measurable results, from reducing KYC onboarding times by more than 80% to improving healthcare denial rates.    Phil and Ritesh also discuss why services firms need a stronger AI narrative for investors, the importance of nonlinear revenue and revenue per employee, and how software and services must come together to create lasting value. They examine industry consolidation, the enterprise debt sitting within service providers, and how AI is transforming workforce models, creating new roles while placing greater value on domain expertise and accountability.   Ritesh closes by sharing how AI has changed his own role as CEO, using it to challenge thinking and ask better questions. His final message captures the theme of the episode: the technology will arrive on schedule, but the courage to use it will not.   Chapters:  00:00 Intro & Ritesh's career 02:49 Three career lessons 04:34 BPO's pivotal 5 years 05:36 Cannibalize your own model 07:08 No soft landing 08:42 Launching UnBPO 10:41 Intelligence that operates 12:43 The K-shaped curve 14:53 Sell the stack, not people 18:24 Domain depth & change 19:39 The consolidation wave 23:28 Why this wave is different 26:09 The workforce in 5–10 years 29:54 AI and the CEO's job 35:17 The 2030 test & close   Learn more & connect HFS Research:  https://www.hfsresearch.com The podcast:  https://horsesmouthpodcast.com Phil Fersht on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht Ritesh Idnani on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/riteshidnani   From the Horse’s Mouth: Intrepid Conversations with Phil Fersht brings together founders, executives, and contrarian thinkers for unfiltered conversations on the forces reshaping business and technology. Hosted by HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst, Phil Fersht.   #AI #ServicesAsSoftware #BPO #FutureOfWork #AgenticAI #RiteshIdnani #PhilFersht #HFSResearch

    Phil pods with Firstsource MD & CEO Ritesh Idnani: There's no soft landing for a labor-first model in AI

  4. Jul 17 ·  Video

    Phil pods with You.com Co-Founder and CEO Richard Socher: Everyone becomes a manager of AI — The Eureka machine & the new science

    In this episode of From the Horse’s Mouth, HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst Phil Fersht speaks with Richard Socher, co-founder and CEO of You.com, co-founder and CEO of Recursive, founding investor at AIX Ventures, and author of the forthcoming book The Eureka Machine. A pioneer in modern NLP, Richard invented the widely used GloVe word vectors at Stanford and helped advance prompt engineering while leading AI research at Salesforce. He explains how AI is evolving from a tool into a coworker, and why agency, creativity, and delegation will define the next generation of work. Phil and Richard explore how AI is transforming scientific discovery, education, search, and software development. They discuss why researchers are becoming orchestrators of AI agents, why writing remains essential for critical thinking, and why AI requires a new generation of search infrastructure built on accurate, cited information. They also examine AI's impact on healthcare, biology, and enterprise workflows; why opting out of AI will create a long-term competitive disadvantage; and Richard’s vision for The Eureka Machine, where AI accelerates scientific discovery through knowledge, data, simulation, experimentation, and agent swarms. Chapters 00:00 Meet Richard Socher 02:30 Reinventing AI search 03:53 AI and scientific discovery  04:36 Managing AI, not just using it  06:01 How AI is changing research  08:27 Rethinking education  11:36 Why writing still matters  13:25 The future of search  15:49 AI's impact on industries  18:02 The cost of opting out  20:52 The Eureka Machine  23:04 Closing thoughts Learn more & connect HFS Research: https://www.hfsresearch.com The podcast: https://horsesmouthpodcast.comPhil Fersht on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfershtRichard Socher on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richardsocher From the Horse’s Mouth: Intrepid Conversations with Phil Fersht brings together founders, executives, and contrarian thinkers for unfiltered conversations on the forces reshaping business and technology. Hosted by HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst, Phil Fersht. #AI #ArtificialIntelligence #AIforScience #FutureOfWork #RichardSocher #PhilFersht #HFSResearch #AISearch

    Phil pods with You.com Co-Founder and CEO Richard Socher: Everyone becomes a manager of AI — The Eureka machine & the new science

  5. Jul 10 ·  Video

    Phil pods with Rohan Narayana Murty, Founder and CEO, Workfabric AI: Why your AI fails without context, the work graph & the rise of digital twins

    In this episode of From the Horse's Mouth, HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst Phil Fersht speaks with Rohan Narayana Murty, Founder & CEO of Workfabric AI, Harvard computer science PhD, former MIT postdoc, and only the second computer scientist after Marvin Minsky to be elected to the Harvard Society of Fellows, about why context, not model power, is the real frontier of enterprise AI.   Rohan explains why office and knowledge work can now be studied scientifically through what he calls human attention data. By understanding what people focus on as they work, organizations can build a "work graph" that captures how work really gets done.   Phil and Rohan discuss why AI agents need the unique context of every organization, how breaking down silos reveals new opportunities and risks, and how digital twins could transform the way employees collaborate across teams.   The conversation also explores how AI will reshape enterprise structures, why culture matters as much as technology, and why services firms should focus on context engineering to stay competitive. They discuss how smaller, AI-native firms could challenge incumbents and why traditional billable-hour models may become increasingly difficult to sustain.   They close by exploring what true AGI would require, why humans will continue teaching machines for years to come, and a timeless lesson from Rohan's father on why services businesses continue to matter, even in the age of AI.   Essential viewing for CEOs, technology and services leaders, founders, and anyone interested in context engineering, AI agents, digital twins, and the future of knowledge work.   Chapters  00:00 – Intro: Meet Rohan Narayana Murty 01:34 – From Academia to AI Entrepreneurship 03:08 – Rethinking Human-Machine Work 03:46 – Studying Knowledge Work with AI 06:22 – Work Graphs & Human Attention Data 08:33 – Why AI Agents Need Context 09:18 – The Context Engineering Challenge 11:34 – Breaking Enterprise Silos 13:29 – How Human Attention Data Works 15:13 – Privacy, Consent & Incentives 15:31 – Digital Twins Explained 17:33 – Phil's Digital Twin Example 19:05 – AI That Writes in Your Voice 20:39 – Inside the Work Graph 23:28 – The Future of Enterprise Work 24:30 – Where Enterprise Context Lives 26:55 – AI Culture Over Technology 29:36 – Managing for Outcomes 31:15 – Why Context Engineering Matters 33:55 – AI-Native Services Models 34:41 – The Rise of Specialized AI Firms 35:43 – The End of Billable Hours? 38:43 – Why Services Still Matter 39:01 – A Timeless Lesson on Services 42:07 – Is Context the Key to AGI?   Learn more & connect  HFS Research:  https://www.hfsresearch.com The podcast:  https://horsesmouthpodcast.com Phil Fersht on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht Rohan Narayana Murty on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/rohanmurtyFrom the Horse’s Mouth: Intrepid Conversations with Phil Fersht brings together founders, executives, and contrarian thinkers for unfiltered conversations on the forces reshaping business and technology. Hosted by HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst, Phil Fersht.   #AI #EnterpriseAI #FutureOfWork #DigitalTwins #ContextEngineering #AIagents #PhilFersht #HFSResearch

    Phil pods with Rohan Narayana Murty, Founder and CEO, Workfabric AI: Why your AI fails without context, the work graph & the rise of digital twins

  6. Jul 2 ·  Video

    Phil pods with Exponential View Founder Azeem Azhar: There is no AI bubble: The enterprise velocity gap & China's efficiency moat

    In this episode of From the Horse’s Mouth, HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst Phil Fersht sits down with Azeem Azhar, founder of Exponential View, Bloomberg contributor, and author of Exponential, for a candid conversation about where AI really stands inside the enterprise. Azeem explains why he believes there is no imminent AI bubble, pointing to enterprise investment, customer spending, and revenue growth as signs of sustained momentum. Together, Phil and Azeem discuss the growing AI velocity gap between individuals and enterprises, why legacy systems and leadership remain major barriers to adoption, and how AI agents, forward-deployed engineers, and organizational agility are reshaping competitive advantage. They also explore China’s AI progress, enterprise trust in AI, workforce reskilling, and why speed of execution, rather than technology alone, will define tomorrow’s market leaders. This episode is essential viewing for business leaders, technology executives, consultants, investors, and anyone looking to understand the real impact of AI on enterprise transformation and the future of work. Chapters   00:00 – Introduction   01:23 – AI in the enterprise today   04:24 – Is there really an AI bubble?   08:47 – The AI velocity gap   14:13 – Culture, talent, and AI adoption   21:21 – Building competitive advantage with AI   30:30 – Lessons from China’s AI ecosystem   37:15 – Why enterprise trust in AI matters   44:05 – The future of work and productivity   52:55 – Closing thoughts Learn more & connect HFS Research: https://www.hfsresearch.com The podcast: https://horsesmouthpodcast.com Phil Fersht on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht Azeem Azhar’s Exponential View: https://www.exponentialview.com  About From the Horse’s Mouth From the Horse’s Mouth: Intrepid Conversations with Phil Fersht brings together founders, executives, and contrarian thinkers for unfiltered conversations on the forces reshaping business and technology. Hosted by HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst, Phil Fersht. #AI #ArtificialIntelligence #EnterpriseAI #FutureOfWork #AzeemAzhar #PhilFersht #HFSResearch

    Phil pods with Exponential View Founder Azeem Azhar: There is no AI bubble: The enterprise velocity gap & China's efficiency moat

  7. Jun 25 ·  Video

    Phil pods with Genpact CEO Balkrishan "BK" Kalra: The $18 trillion reason your AI isn't working

    In this episode of From the Horse's Mouth, HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst Phil Fersht sits down with Balkrishan “BK” Kalra, President and CEO of Genpact, for a candid conversation on why most enterprises are still chasing AI returns on broken foundations, and what it actually takes to unlock value at scale.   BK argues there is no artificial intelligence without process intelligence. Drawing on Genpact’s roots in running mission-critical operations at GE, the birthplace of Lean and Six Sigma, he makes the case that the fundamentals have never changed: until enterprises do the foundational work in data, process, technology, and talent, the ROI on AI simply won't materialize.  At the heart of the conversation is the concept of enterprise debt. Technology debt, BK says, is only the tip of the iceberg — the real drag lies in the hidden process, data, and talent debt beneath the surface. Phil and BK unpack the HFS–Genpact research showing aspirations are high while readiness is low, why only 6% of enterprises have meaningfully acted despite widespread awareness, and why the challenge now is less about awareness and more about leadership courage, ownership, and execution speed.   They also dig into the staggering $18 trillion in recoverable enterprise value tied to debt remediation, and why AI transformation and enterprise debt remediation are really the same program — a holistic, CEO-level agenda rather than a CIO/CTO technology project. BK explains why the payoff is a factor change, not just incremental improvement, why the gains compound over three to six years of disciplined execution, and why active, high-frequency governance is what separates enterprises that execute from those that remain stalled.   Finally, BK shares how this is reshaping Genpact itself: the “five billion dollar startup” mindset, the Yin-and-Yang leadership blend of deep-domain veterans and tech natives, and the bold workforce bet that within three to four years there will be only two kinds of people at Genpact —AI builders and AI practitioners — with nearly 10,000 builders and 20,000 practitioners already earned, with zero whitewashing allowed.   Essential viewing for CEOs, CFOs, COOs, heads of supply chain, services, and outsourcing leaders, and anyone serious about turning AI ambition into measurable enterprise value. Learn More & Connect  HFS Research:  https://www.hfsresearch.com  The podcast:  https://horsesmouthpodcast.com  Phil Fersht on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht  BK Kalra on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/balkrishan-kalraAbout From the Horse’s Mouth: Intrepid Conversations with Phil Fersht brings together founders, executives, and contrarian thinkers for unfiltered debate on the forces reshaping business and technology. Hosted by HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst Phil Fersht.   #AI #EnterpriseAI #FutureOfWork #Genpact #AgenticAI #BKKalra #PhilFersht #HFSResearch

    Phil pods with Genpact CEO Balkrishan "BK" Kalra: The $18 trillion reason your AI isn't working

  8. Jun 11 ·  Video

    Phil pods with Cognizant Co-Founder Frank D'Souza: Why AI is breaking the IT services industry

    The man who co-founded Cognizant and scaled it from a startup to 280,000 people, $16B in revenue, and ~$40B in market cap has a blunt message for the IT services industry: the scarcity-era playbook is finished.  In this episode of From the Horse’s Mouth, HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst Phil Fersht sits down with Frank D’Souza, Co-Founder and Managing Partner of Recognize and author of the new white paper The Great Decoupling, for a candid debate on how AI is rewriting the economics of services. They unpack “the great paradox”: code has never been more valuable, yet the cost of producing it is collapsing toward zero. Frank explains why the industry’s habit of pricing the input (billable hours, utilization, headcount) instead of the output is the real threat — and why the firms that survive will sell certainty and outcomes, not tires and spark plugs.  This is a no-nonsense conversation about the AI reckoning facing IT services, consulting, and digital transformation — and a roadmap for the leaders willing to drop revenue before they grow it.   Chapters  00:00 – Meet Frank D’Souza: from Cognizant to Recognize01:43 – The 3 things that built Cognizant into a $16B giant 03:27 – The innovator’s dilemma: why incumbents get disrupted 04:41 – The great paradox: code priceless AND worthless 07:45 – Selling the experience, not the inputs 09:46 – Why talent — not tech — is the real bottleneck 12:13 – The J-Curve danger: how to spot a firm on the wrong side 14:19 – Wall Street, Jevons’ paradox & people-heavy businesses 17:08 – The “first mile and last mile” services opportunity 20:15 – OpenAI & Anthropic services deals: threat or gift? 22:46 – Mass retraining, young talent & “artificial wisdom” 25:21 – From the pyramid to the diamond: the new talent geometry 30:26 – A NASSCOM-style industry-wide apprenticeship? 32:10 – Building culture from the bottom up 34:49 – Do we need better leaders in services? 36:03 – Big vs. small: who wins the AI transition? 39:46 – The Syclum story: managing through war and the J-Curve 43:24 – “Outcome density”: what we’ll talk about in 2 years 45:10 – The coming wave of chaotic consolidation & M&A   Explore More  HFS Research: https://www.hfsresearch.com/  The Podcast: https://horsesmouthpodcast.com/  Phil Fersht on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht/  Frank’s white paper, The Great Decoupling: https://recognize.com/the-great-decoupling/ Frank D’Souza on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/franciscodsouza About From the Horse’s Mouth: Intrepid Conversations with Phil Fersht brings together founders, executives, and contrarian thinkers for unfiltered debate on the forces reshaping business and technology. Hosted by HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst Phil Fersht.   #AI #ITServices #GenerativeAI #FutureOfWork #DigitalTransformation #Consulting #leadershiptips

    Phil pods with Cognizant Co-Founder Frank D'Souza: Why AI is breaking the IT services industry
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As technology rapidly evolves, the world has undergone a significant transformation. Society has shifted from being human-centered to a complex web of digital automation, AI, and human workers who support it. This rapid innovation outpaces regulations and threatens social mobility. The rise of AI presents a critical challenge: how can businesses and policymakers ensure that AI enhances, rather than hinders, human creativity and innovation? Automating routine tasks could free up people for roles requiring creativity, problem-solving, and emotional intelligence, but it demands a focus on continuous learning and digital literacy. The first season of From the Horse's Mouth: Intrepid Conversations with Phil Fersht explores the intersection of AI, work, and society, aiming to shape the future.

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