AND/BOTH Podcast - Real Conversations, Shared Experiences, and the Community You've Been Missing

Dr. Ashley Blackington
  • 5.0 (4)
  • Parenting
  • Updated Weekly

Hear from moms in all different scenarios doing their absolute best to honor themselves as individuals in a world that would prefer, as mothers, we not. ⁠ ⁠ Hear from moms who are trying to figure out what that "something" is after the life altering transition into motherhood.⁠ ⁠ Hear from moms that say "I know I need to do something for myself and this is what it is, but it feels impossible to do it"⁠ ⁠ What is the AND/BOTH that you are juggling with motherhood? Career, hobbies, entrepreneurship, new identity, new activities, new passions and interests?⁠

  1. 3d ago

    132. "If I Didn't Have My Business, I Couldn't Have Left," Lana Pummill on Single Motherhood, Cold Pitching & Starting Over

    Lana Pummill started her business in 2019 charging twelve dollars an hour. In 2021, her marriage ended when the twins were three months old, and that business — scrappy and underpaid as it was — became the thing that made leaving possible. She said it directly: without it, she wouldn’t have had the financial means to get out. She’s been building ever since. From her mom’s house. From the food bank line at six in the morning. Through a hail mary cold email that changed the direction of everything. In this conversation, Ashley and Lana talk about what it looks like to build a business when you’re starting from zero, why financial independence isn’t a luxury for women in hard situations, and what the pivot from survival mode to actual freedom looks like in real time. In This Episode Single mom of four — a twelve-year-old, a ten-year-old, and boy-girl twins — and how that shapes everythingStarting a business in 2019 for twelve dollars an hour — and the awkward conversation that follows when you undercharge for a yearThe marriage ending when the twins were three months old — and why having a business made leaving possibleLiving with her mom, going to the food bank at six in the morning — what the early years actually looked likeThe hail mary cold email — how responding to a newsletter got her in front of the right person at exactly the right timeWhy brutally honest networking lands with the right people — and why that’s the whole pointThe pivot from social media scheduling to cold pitching to consulting — and why the business keeps finding its own shapeAI — the good, the cold, and why treating it like a rough draft is smarter than treating it like a shortcutWhy you can’t outsource the human voice and what happens when you tryThe Water Llama hydration app and what it says about who’s actually designing these thingsThe McDonald’s parking lot breakdown — an hour and fifteen minutes from home with four kids, a hundred degrees, and a car that wouldn’t startWhat the freedom she built the business for actually looks like now — and why consulting is getting her closerHer long-term goal: building something for moms who are financially stuck and need a way outWhy you have to figure out you first before the tools and platforms can help Quotes From This Episode “If I wouldn’t have had my business, I wouldn’t have had the financial means to get out of the marriage that I was in.” — Lana Pummill “I was at a food bank at six in the morning because I couldn’t get groceries.” — Lana Pummill “It all comes down to whether you still believe in it or not. If you enjoy what you’re doing, ’cause I really do love what I’m doing.” — Lana Pummill “Treat it like your rough draft.” — Lana Pummill (on AI) “You have to figure out you first. And then you can go apply the tools and platforms and all that stuff.” — Ashley Blackington Find Lana LinkedIn: Lana PummillWebsite: lanapummill.com Connect with Ashley: Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/ Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822 Instagram: @mydovetail.app LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

  2. Sep 18

    131. Your Impact Can't Just Be Outpouring, Lisa Avila on Building Something That Sustains You Too

    Lisa Avila spent fifteen years in the wine industry, left to do migrant Head Start and advocacy work with families the system was failing, quit when COVID made the impossible impossible, and built a business strategy and nonprofit strategy practice on the other side of all of it. She works mostly with women. The question they all arrive with is the same one she had to answer for herself: now what? In this conversation, Ashley and Lisa talk about the nonprofit trap — the idea that wanting to make an impact means you have to be a martyr about it — why women who help people deserve to make real money doing it, what it’s like to be sandwiched between kids and aging parents at the same time, and what the next right step looks like when you’ve spent decades outpouring and finally have some space to ask what you actually want. In This Episode Mom of three boys, fifteen years in the wine industry, migrant Head Start director — how Lisa got hereThe COVID moment that made her quit — and why her boss didn’t understand until she had kids of her ownThe nonprofit trap — why women who want to make an impact keep being told it has to be unprofitableWhy you can make a lot of money and still help people — and why we need to stop acting like those are oppositesThe golden handcuff — when the organizations saying “we support women” require them to be nonprofits to qualifyWhat migrant Head Start actually looks like — and what happens to student records when families move across the countryThe political reality of advocacy in a conservative agricultural town in CaliforniaRed cards, rights, and what’s changed for immigrant families since COVIDThe Panini generation — being sandwiched between kids and an eighty-one year old mother, in perimenopauseThree boys 17, 19, and 20 — what it’s like when two come home from college for the summerThe client going global with her nonprofit — four years from a Facebook group to international impactThe client who sat on her cancer journey poems for seven years and finally published themWhat the “now what” looks like — the question every woman Lisa works with is askingNon-negotiables: a bath every night, coffee, a walk, girlfriends who keep it realThe airstream barbecue and dive bar tour — her plan for empty nest life Quotes From This Episode “Why can’t we make a lot of money and still help people? There’s nothing wrong with that. Why do we have to wear our heart on our sleeve and be martyrs?” — Lisa Avila “I’m not putting it out there that I only work with mothers, but it’s just this energy we’re drawn to — this now what.” — Lisa Avila “I was checking boxes for decades. Just outpour, outpour, outpour. And what did it get me?” — Lisa Avila “Your impact can’t just be outpouring. It has to be self-sustaining. Otherwise that’s how everyone flames out.” — Ashley Blackington “I am physically hot and I am pressed for time and patience and all of the things.” — Ashley Blackington (on the Panini generation) Find Lisa LinkedIn: Lisa AvilaTikTok: @LisaAvilaCo Connect with Ashley: Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/ Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822 Instagram: @mydovetail.app LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

  3. Sep 4

    130. The Only Safety Net That Will Ever Exist Is the One You Build Yourself, with Lindsey Elliott

    Lindsey Elliott spent seventeen years at a leading outdoor footwear brand — starting junior, ending as Global VP — and two months ago she left to build Product & Presence, her own company focused on brand visibility and public speaking coaching, with a particular soft spot for helping women show up in big rooms without the weight of everything they were never supposed to be carrying in the first place. In this conversation, Ashley and Lindsey, who have been friends since University in Halifax, talk about what it looks like to leave a twenty-year career, why the safety net you build yourself is the only one that’s real, how partnership and parenting look different when there are no predetermined roles, and why making your kid breakfast every morning might be the best metric for success nobody talks about. In This Episode How Ashley and Lindsey met — Lyle House, Halifax, a hockey stick, and Grey’s Anatomy every ThursdayTwenty years in the outdoor industry — from retail footwear buyer to Global VPWhy Lindsey chose entrepreneurship over the next big corporate role, even when the big roles were availableThe career coach she dismissed for years who turned out to be right about everythingWhat transition looks like when you have a twelve-year-old watching how you handle itProduct & Presence — what it is, who it’s for, and why public speaking is at the center of itWhy the only safety net that will ever exist is the one you build yourselfWomen and financial independence, why self-care needs to include financial acumenBeing the primary financial provider in a same-sex partnership and what happens when that changesHow the absence of predetermined gender roles changes what partnership and parenting actually look likeThe woman who couldn’t get out of her own head before a keynote and what Lindsey did about itThe backpack of garbage nobody asked for and why it shouldn’t be in the room when you’re on stageThe lacrosse kids running summer camps instead of stocking shelves and what that says about what’s comingMaking breakfast before getting after it and why that’s the whole point Quotes From This Episode “The only safety net that will ever exist here is the one that I create for myself.” — Lindsey Elliott “Success is not linear. And that’s not bad — it’s just important to acknowledge.” — Lindsey Elliott “If I get to make my son breakfast and put him on the school bus, and then I get to put in a day that’s as long as it needs to be — I’m good with that.” — Lindsey Elliott “There are no predetermined gender roles. So you define whatever that relationship looks like in the capacity that makes sense for you both.” — Lindsey Elliott “You’re not building the airplane while you’re trying to figure out how to fly the thing. Plane’s done. Pass the peanuts.” — Ashley Blackington Find Lindsey Website: productandpresence.comLinkedIn: search Lindsey Elliott Connect with Ashley: Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/ Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822 Instagram: @mydovetail.app LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

  4. Aug 21

    129. No More Mediocre: The Mental Load, the Nag Paradox & Why You Can't Win — with Laura Danger

    Laura Danger got laid off five days into her maternity leave. Then she opened a birthday card that said best mom, best wife — and realized she couldn’t remember the last time anyone asked if she was doing okay as a person. That stack of moments became No More Mediocre, her book about the mental load, the nag paradox, and the care work that holds everything together while remaining completely invisible. In this conversation, Ashley and Laura talk about the Truman Show moment that cracks open the life you thought you wanted, why the nag paradox is a loop you literally cannot win, what sitcom syndrome is doing to households across the country, and how a garden club in Chicago became something much bigger than anyone expected. In This Episode Laura’s Truman Show moment — laid off on maternity leave, a birthday card that only named her roles, and 2020 doing the restWhat the mental load actually is — and why the emotional thinking work definition mattersWeaponized incompetence — what it is and how it shows up in real relationshipsThe nag paradox — the corrosive loop of directing and executing, and why doing it yourself only makes it worseSitcom syndrome — how couples comedy on TikTok normalizes dynamics that can be genuinely toxic behind closed doorsWhy high-achieving women often can’t separate their anger at the system from the person right in front of them — and what to do about itThe career rug pull as the new midlife crisis for men — and what that means for conversations about equity at homeWhat the 2026 Equimundo State of the World’s Fathers report found — and why it’s hauntingLinchpin exhaustion — why Ashley couldn’t snowboard freely because of what it would cost her family if she got hurtWhy believing in equal roles leads to less conflict even when the division of labor isn’t equalZone defense parenting — and why taking the average over time beats snapshot accountingThe garden club that became a care network — free plants, seed libraries, and neighbors who know each other’s namesNo More Mediocre the book — and why the audiobook is specifically designed to listen to while you garden Quotes From This Episode “I felt bamboozled. I really thought I could change things or just work really hard and this would get better. And it didn’t.” — Laura Danger “I can’t die because I have knowledge that nobody else has. I know the schedule.” — Laura Danger “The nag paradox is that corrosive relationship loop where one person takes direction and the other directs.” — Laura Danger “It’s not just a garden club. It’s a full-blown care network.” — Laura Danger “I am here, I am wearing the name tag, I am doing the thing. But that doesn’t mean it’s my responsibility.” — Ashley Blackington Resources & Links No More Mediocre (book): available everywhere books are sold — audiobook recommendedLibro FM (supports local bookstores): libro.fmInstagram: @thatdarnchatSubstack: search Laura DangerEquimundo State of the World’s Fathers 2026: equimundo.orgFair Play by Eve Rodsky — mentioned as companion resourceDrained by Leah Ruppaner — mentioned in conversation Connect with Ashley: Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/ Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822 Instagram: @mydovetail.app LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

  5. Aug 7

    128. Becky Selbie on Mums Who Look Like They’re Coping but Feel Like They’re Failing

    Becky Selbie is a London-based psychotherapist who specialises in motherhood and maternal mental health — and she has a gift for taking the frameworks she uses in her therapy room and translating them into language that actually lands in everyday life. In this conversation, Ashley and Becky cover a lot of ground: matrescence and why the word matters so much, the rule book that high-achieving women carry into motherhood that starts working against them the moment they get there, the mums who look like they’re coping but feel like they’re failing, the difference between motherhood and mothering, and why the inner critic telling you you’re not good enough isn’t your voice — it’s the noise of a culture that has never held mothers in the regard they deserve. It’s one of those conversations that leaves you seeing yourself differently. In This Episode How Becky came to specialise in maternal mental health — giving birth and thinking “how has nobody prepared me for this?”Matrescence — why the word matters, where it came from, and why it took 50 years to reach mainstream languageThe moment Becky heard it for the first time and ran downstairs to tell her husbandSharing the concept with her mother — who had her first child in the 1960s and was prescribed tranquilizers for what was actually matrescenceWhy high-achieving women struggle in motherhood more than others — and the rule book that explains whyMums who look like they’re coping but feel like they’re failing — and what the swan metaphor gets exactly rightThe “tab open” metaphor — why you never feel fully disconnected from your children even when you’re away from themNot loving every chapter — and why that has nothing to do with how much you love your kidsThe problem with parenting content on social media — theory without context, and who pays the priceWhy Becky’s clinical supervisor said “well, she will” when a client was terrified of messing up her kids — and why that was the most freeing thing she’d ever heardMotherhood vs. mothering — the doing versus the being, and why we’re graded on the wrong oneThe inner critic is the patriarchy — and why turning down its volume is the whole pointWhat fills Becky’s bucket: creativity, building community, and the retreat she’s planning for mums Quotes From This Episode “Not loving motherhood doesn’t mean that you don’t love mothering. Just because you don’t enjoy bits of motherhood, there is no connection to how you feel about your kids.” — Becky Selbie “The inner critic is wrong. The inner critic is the patriarchy — it’s society, it’s all those messages about what motherhood should look like. And it’s nonsense.” — Becky Selbie “Motherhood is the doing. Mothering is the being — the relationship, the love, the knowing them inside out. But we’re graded on the doing.” — Becky Selbie “Even when you’re away, there’s a tab open all the time in your head. It’s just that as they get older, the tab gets smaller.” — Becky Selbie “Don’t compare the back end of your business to the front end of somebody else’s.” — Ashley Blackington Connect with Becky: Instagram: @_motherway_Website: motherway.co.uk Connect with Ashley: Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/ Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822 Instagram: @mydovetail.app LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

  6. Jul 24

    127. Day Raves, Dinner Parties & Polymer Clay: Katie Schlott’s Experiment in Authentic Networking

    Katie Schlott spent 20 years in innovation — running experiments, iterating, testing what works. So when she realized her professional network had quietly gone dark during the years she was deep in parenting, she did what any good strategist would do: she designed an experiment. Day raves. Pop-up dinners in strangers’ homes. Perfume making fundraisers. Online Slack communities. Wonder Woman dinners. A volunteer board for women’s health research. She tried all of it, wrote about it for Inc Magazine, and then came back on AND/BOTH to talk through what she actually found. The conversation covers the new rules of networking, why smaller rooms build realer connections, how parents in particular need to rethink the whole model, and what happens when you decide to build the community you can’t find. Plus Costco. A lot about Costco. In This Episode Why Katie ran a networking experiment — and what the traditional model was missingThe day rave, the pop-up dinner, the perfume fundraiser — what each one taught herThe Old Girls Club and Society of Working Mothers — online communities built on realness over résumésWonder Woman Dinners — strangers become friends in under two hours, and why it works“Tell me something Google doesn’t know about you” — the opener that changes everythingWhy funny is sticky and vulnerability gets built through shared experiencesIf you can’t find what you’re looking for, build it — Brilliant Failures, Brilliant Mothers, Mama PaloozaJoining a volunteer board for women’s health research and what that unlockedWhy big conferences are often the least efficient use of a parent’s limited time and energyManaging your network based on energy levels, not just calendar availabilityWhat happens when you let your network go dark — and how to rebuild authenticallyHow to be direct about what you’re looking for instead of hoping the room delivers itNetworking with teenagers at home — and the season-by-season nature of connection Quotes From This Episode “If you think you’re an N of one, you’re actually an N of 100. Just start it.” — Katie Schlott “Funny is sticky. Vulnerability is created in moments where you’re actually having fun with people.” — Katie Schlott “I want to join communities that thrive on real life, not résumés.” — Katie Schlott “Every single founder said: just pick one thing, just start with one. Don’t be overwhelmed, just get the ball rolling.” — Katie Schlott “The smaller rooms are the best. Everything that follows from a small room conversation — the email, the introduction, the follow-up — none of that ever comes from a big conference.” — Ashley Blackington Resources & Links Connect with Katie on LinkedIn Read Katie's lnc. Magazine article on "The New Rules of Networking" Check out her consultancy and read ALL her articles (Fast Company, Inc and Business Insider) Buy the magical Costco totes that she uses to keep her cart contents tight! Connect with Ashley: Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/ Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822 Instagram: @mydovetail.app LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

  7. Jul 10

    126. I Got a Call from Kenya: Adoption, NICU, Newborn Care & Building the Modern Village with Kristin Smith of Well Supported Family

    Kristin Smith has spent 20 years helping new families survive the hardest weeks of their lives. As the founder of Well Supported Family — a team of over 200 postpartum doulas, newborn care specialists, and nurses operating across 12 states — she’s built the modern village that most families desperately need and almost nobody has access to. Now she has a two-month-old of her own. An adopted son she got the call about while she was standing at an elephant orphanage in Kenya. He came home through the NICU. And for the first time, she’s on the parent side of everything she’s built — learning what it feels like to need the very support she’s spent two decades providing. In this conversation, Ashley and Kristin talk about the postpartum care gap, the different paths to parenthood, what actually happens in those first nights home, and what it looks like to practice exactly what you preach. In This Episode How Kristin started — a postpartum doula at 19 after having her daughter with almost no supportGrowing Well Supported Family from a private practice to a team of 200+ across 12 statesWhy postpartum care in the US is so inadequate — and what it would take to fix itWhat in-home newborn care actually looks like and how it’s tailored to each familyThe RV team, the travel team, and how they reach families in almost every stateNICU babies coming home — the adjustment nobody prepares families forThe call from Kenya — a failed adoption, four days into a trip, at an elephant orphanageThree rounds of IVF and what that experience gave her as a providerBeing on the parent side for the first time — and convincing herself her own baby was brokenWhy adopted babies don’t get the postpartum support they need — and the rude awakening that followedThe philosophy at the heart of her work: build children into your life, not your life around themWhat’s next — expanding into mental health support and more states Quotes From This Episode “You can have a wound inside your body the size of a basketball, and it was attached. Just because nobody sees it doesn’t mean it doesn’t hurt.” — Kristin Smith “I don’t believe parents should build their life around children. I believe they should build children into their lives.” — Kristin Smith “I was at the elephant orphanage when this baby was born. That feels so symbolic.” — Kristin Smith “I was convinced he was broken. I’m a professional. What is he doing? And then someone said, he was four weeks early. You’re expecting a lot right now.” — Kristin Smith “It’s not just giving them the break they need — it’s helping them learn to build a life with their child.” — Kristin Smith Resources & Links Well Supported Family: wellsupportedfamily.comBaby Care Classes: available via wellsupportedfamily.comInstagram, Facebook, TikTok, YouTube: @wellsupportedfamilyFind Kristin on Facebook: Kristin Lee Connect with Ashley: Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/ Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822 Instagram: @mydovetail.care LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

  8. Jun 26

    125. This Pain Ends with Us: Breaking the Burnout Loop for the Next Generation Using Notice and Do with Sam Kelly

    Sam Kelly was making a Saturday morning to-do list for her kids on a Friday night when it hit her. She’d just spent a year teaching her husband not to rely on her to notice what needed to be done — and here she was, about to hand her children the same broken script. She dropped the marker, went to bed, and the next morning introduced her family to Notice and Do. Two years later she has a book deal with Harper Collins, a viral online platform, and a method that’s helping burned-out mothers around the world finally get their families off the sidelines. In this conversation, Ashley and Sam talk about the mental load, the burnout loop, intergenerational cycle-breaking, and what it actually looks like to teach kids — including neurodivergent ones — to be a real part of the family team. In This Episode The Friday night moment that sparked the Notice and Do methodWhat Notice and Do actually is — and how it differs from a chore chartThe Big Three — Sam’s daily structure for kids of any age or abilityThe learning ladder — why perfection isn’t the point and every rung countsTeaching neurodivergent kids to notice — and why it works even when nothing else hasThe five cycle-breaking conversations — age-appropriate language for mental load, burnout, and equityWhy rage cleaning is never really about the messy kitchenThe burnout loop — quarterly mommy meltdowns, putting your head down, and repeatWhy self care isn’t enough — and why supportive care needs to be the new conversationWhat it’s like to teach an adult partner versus teaching kids — and why those are completely separate thingsThe full circle moment: how Notice and Do liberated Sam enough to write the bookHow to approach this when your kids just don’t care — and why that’s actually fineWhat she hopes the next generation looks like when this work takes hold Quotes From This Episode “Mental load is a whole family issue. Whole family issues require whole family solutions.” — Sam Kelly “Supportive care needs to be the new self care. Who is caring for the mom?” — Sam Kelly “It’s not about the messy kitchen. It’s about what that mess is triggering underneath — feeling taken for granted, feeling lonely, feeling unseen.” — Sam Kelly “This pain ends with us. This ends here and now.” — Sam Kelly “Notice and Do liberated me enough to create this book. And if it can liberate me at that level, it can liberate anyone.” — Sam Kelly Resources & Links Notice and Do (Harper Collins, pre-order now)Instagram: @samkelly_worldAudio course: available via Sam’s Instagram linkRequest at your local library and indie bookstore Connect with Ashley: Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/ Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822 Instagram: @mydovetail.app LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

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Hear from moms in all different scenarios doing their absolute best to honor themselves as individuals in a world that would prefer, as mothers, we not. ⁠ ⁠ Hear from moms who are trying to figure out what that "something" is after the life altering transition into motherhood.⁠ ⁠ Hear from moms that say "I know I need to do something for myself and this is what it is, but it feels impossible to do it"⁠ ⁠ What is the AND/BOTH that you are juggling with motherhood? Career, hobbies, entrepreneurship, new identity, new activities, new passions and interests?⁠

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