Tom Willings and Tom Woolman are joined by Vera Bavinck, poultry veterinarian for Kipster, to discuss a radically different approach to egg production in the Netherlands. The conversation covers Kipster’s low-impact production model, the use of upcycled feed ingredients, welfare-led housing design, natural daylight, lower stocking densities, keel bone fracture monitoring, delayed onset of lay, and the potential for mobile on-farm slaughter. The episode also touches on Groundswell, regenerative agriculture, ultra-processed food, and the broader question of how poultry systems can reduce pressure on land, improve animal welfare, and become more transparent to the public. GuestVera Bavinck Poultry veterinarian working with Kipster, alongside wider welfare, monitoring and small-scale poultry projects in the Netherlands and African countries. Main topics coveredGroundswell and regenerative agricultureTom Willings opens by reflecting on his first visit to Groundswell, describing it as a regenerative agriculture festival focused on soil health, water health, pollution control, diversity in cropping, and reintegrating animals into farming systems. The hosts discuss how regenerative agriculture differs from organic farming, particularly because regen is less prescriptive and more focused on what is appropriate for each farm, soil type and context. Introduction to KipsterVera explains that Kipster was founded around six years ago with the aim of producing animal protein — in this case eggs — while doing as little damage to the planet as possible. Key features of the Kipster model include: A target of a very low or near-zero CO₂ footprint.A house design using solar panels, heat exchange and other environmental technologies.A major focus on feed, especially upcycled or residual feed streams.Use of bakery products and other ingredients originally intended for human food but diverted into poultry feed.High levels of transparency, daylight and public-facing education. Upcycled feed and circular farmingA central part of Kipster’s model is the use of feed ingredients that avoid direct competition with human food production. Vera explains that the system uses residual and waste streams, including agricultural by-products and bakery products. Later in the episode, Tom Willings expands on this, arguing that one of Kipster’s most important ideas is reducing the conflict between land used to grow crops for direct human consumption and land used to grow crops for animal feed. The hosts note that the supply chains and raw materials exist in the UK, but the challenge is practical: feed mills are designed around current systems, and using more varied waste or by-product streams would require infrastructure, storage and investment. Kipster’s welfare modelVera describes Kipster’s welfare approach as animal-focused. Birds are not beak-treated, live in full daylight, and have access to different functional spaces within the house, including a large indoor garden area. The stocking density is described as low compared with many commercial systems, with Tom Willings noting that when all space is accounted for, Kipster birds are stocked at around six to six and a half birds per square metre. Vera argues that lower stocking density reduces pressure on the system and makes farming easier. She says that, in her experience, six birds per square metre presents fewer challenges than nine birds per square metre. Better Leven welfare accreditationThe discussion compares the UK’s RSPCA Assured model with the Dutch Beter Leven welfare scheme. Vera explains that Beter Leven uses a one-, two- or three-star system. Kipster sought three-star recognition but did not meet the standard in the conventional way because it does not provide the amount of outdoor range normally required for free-range or organic systems. However, because Kipster provides other welfare benefits — including indoor functional spaces, an indoor garden, daylight and a smaller outdoor area — Beter Leven applied discretion and awarded the three-star label. Outdoor access, avian influenza and practical welfareThe conversation examines the tension between outdoor access and actual bird use of range. Vera notes that birds often do not use the full outdoor range unless it provides enough cover, because open areas can feel dangerous to them. She also highlights the impact of avian influenza restrictions in the Netherlands, where birds may be required to remain indoors for long periods. From the bird’s perspective, Vera argues, outdoor range has limited welfare value if it is unavailable for months at a time. Natural daylight and heat managementTom Woolman asks how Kipster prevents the house from overheating given the amount of natural daylight entering the building. Vera explains that the houses use evaporative cooling systems. During recent very hot weather, with outdoor temperatures approaching 40°C, the inside temperature reached around 34°C. She notes that white birds coped better than expected and tended to move into cooler nighttime areas during the day. Keel bone fractures in laying hensVera discusses her work on Kip Up, a welfare monitoring tool for laying hens. A major focus of the tool is keel bone fractures. She explains that keel bone fractures are common in laying hens, with some measurements showing around 70% of birds developing a fracture. Vera stresses that these fractures are painful and have welfare implications, and that science has increasingly confirmed their impact. The discussion covers different types of fractures, including fractures at the tip or apex of the keel bone. Vera explains that young laying hens may still have cartilage at the keel tip when they start laying, making the area vulnerable. Delayed onset of lay and bone developmentVera describes an unexpected learning from avian influenza-related movement restrictions. Some Kipster flocks arrived later than planned, around 23 weeks of age, after being held back with minimal light to delay production. Rather than pushing them quickly into full production, Kipster allowed the birds to develop more slowly. Vera’s early monitoring showed significantly fewer keel bone fractures in these delayed flocks. Her hypothesis is that giving birds more chronological time before the onset of lay allows bone development to continue, improving skeletal robustness. She notes that it is too early to draw final conclusions, especially around persistency of lay, but the early welfare results are promising. Mobile on-farm slaughterThe episode then turns to end-of-lay hens and slaughter. Tom Willings notes that in the UK there are very few abattoirs accredited to handle end-of-lay hens, meaning some birds travel long distances. Vera explains her work with small-scale poultry farmers in the Netherlands, many of whom keep up to 249 birds and are treated as hobby-level producers under Dutch rules. These farmers often have few practical slaughter options. She has been working on mobile slaughtering units that can operate on farm while still complying with European food safety, hygiene and welfare rules. The current units are small, handling around 600 birds per day, with another designed for rabbits capable of just over 1,000 per day. Scaling mobile slaughterThe hosts discuss whether mobile slaughter could scale to farms like Kipster, which may house around 20,000 to 24,000 birds. Vera says drawings already exist for larger-scale systems, but money and complexity remain barriers. She believes mobile slaughter could be especially useful for mid-sized farms that are too small or too remote for existing abattoir systems. Kipster already depopulates over two days and catches birds upright by hand, rather than by the legs, as part of its welfare commitment through to the end of life.
