The Kick & Snare Podcast

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”Kick & Snare” Conversations with Creative Thinkers, Builders, and Visionaries

1d ago · Video

140,000 Songs a Day: How Does Any Artist Get Heard? | Dorian Perron, Groover

Making and distributing music has never been easier. Getting someone to actually listen is another story. In this episode of the Kick & Snare Podcast, Michael Nevins talks with Dorian Perron, co-founder of Groover, about what happens when an enormous and growing supply of music collides with a finite amount of human attention. Dorian has a particularly useful vantage point. Groover connects independent artists with playlist curators, media, radio, labels, managers and other music professionals, giving him a close look at how artists are trying to get heard today. Michael and Dorian discuss how music discovery has changed as influence has moved from a relatively small number of radio stations, publications and labels toward a much larger network of curators, creators, playlists, social platforms and algorithms. They also get into the uneasy relationship artists can have with social media. Does an artist now need to be a content creator too? Can you optimize the first three seconds of a video and still be authentic? And how do human recommendations ultimately influence what algorithms decide to amplify? Then there’s AI. If the amount of music being released already exceeds anyone’s ability to hear it, what happens as generative AI adds even more? Dorian offers a nuanced view of AI as both a creative tool and a source of an entirely new kind of oversupply. The conversation ends with a different question: Does every artist need to “break through” at all? Or is it time for musicians to define success on their own terms? ABOUT DORIAN PERRON: Dorian Perron is co-founder of Groover, a platform connecting independent artists with music curators and industry professionals. Learn more about Groover: https://groover.co/ Topics include: • The battle for attention in music • Why distribution is no longer the primary barrier • Social media, authenticity, and artist development • Human curators vs. algorithmic recommendations • How Spotify discovery works • Playlists and independent curators • AI-generated music and creative tools • The growing oversupply of music • The continuing role of labels • Building a sustainable career without becoming a superstar • Defining success as an artist
Sep 10

AI Is Changing Marketing. What Should Humans Still Do? - David Berkowitz

How should marketers actually use AI, and when should they choose not to? Marketing strategist and AI Marketers Guild founder David Berkowitz joins Michael Nevins on the Kick & Snare Podcast to explore the rapidly changing relationship between artificial intelligence, marketing, creativity, and human judgment. They discuss the AI skills marketers need, practical ways to experiment with generative AI, knowledge management and information retrieval, AI-assisted corporate communications, authenticity, vibe coding, and how AI is changing traditional marketing workflows. David explains why marketers shouldn’t wait until they’ve mastered AI to start experimenting. Instead, he suggests beginning with low-risk projects where failure doesn’t matter: prototype an idea, create something outside your expertise, experiment with vibe coding, or use AI to solve a problem you previously couldn’t solve. But adoption raises another question: just because AI can perform a task, should we hand it over? Michael and David explore the line between using AI to expand human capabilities and becoming overly dependent on it—particularly when communication, creativity, learning, judgment, and authentic human interaction are involved. Topics include: AI adoption for marketers The future of marketing skills Generative AI and authenticity AI for knowledge management Vibe coding and rapid prototyping AI-assisted corporate communications Human creativity vs. AI-generated content Experimenting with AI safely AI literacy for marketing leaders Community learning and the AI Marketers Guild Maintaining human judgment in an AI-enabled workplace Learn more about / Join AI Marketers Guild: https://aimarketersguild.com/ See what the Guild is actually building: https://aimarketersguild.org/ https://www.kickandsnare.llc/
Jun 23

Jim Allen: Music Journalist, Songwriter, and Why Maybe Things Will Be All Right

Jim Allen has spent decades writing about music for publications including Rolling Stone, Billboard, NPR Music, Mojo, Bandcamp Daily, and many others. He's also spent decades making music. In this episode of the Kick & Snare Podcast, Michael Nevins sits down with Jim to explore the intersection of music journalism and songwriting. They discuss how being a journalist affects his creative process and how being a songwriter/musician affects his journalism. They also discuss the making of Jim's new album, Maybe Things Will Be All Right, and why he still believes in CDs while refusing to release music on Spotify. Along the way, they dive into power pop, roots rock, songwriting during the pandemic, legendary collaborators, independent music culture, and creating art even when commercial success isn't the goal. Listen to Jim Allen's music: jimallen.bandcamp.com 00:00:00 - Intro 00:00:40 - Meet Jim Allen: Journalist and Musician 00:04:03 - Living Two Creative Lives 00:05:27 - Do Artists Know You’re a Musician Too? 00:06:44 - As a Musician, Do You Listen Differently? 00:09:51 - Does the Critic Inside Your Head Affect Your Songs? 00:11:14 - Reviewing Friends and Musical Ethics 00:12:17 - What It Feels Like to Be Reviewed 00:15:21 - Journalist vs Critic: Why the Difference Matters 00:21:21 - Tom Petty, Full Moon Fever, and Bad Predictions 00:23:02 - Introducing the New Album 00:26:09 - Pandemic Songwriting and the Weekly Songwriters Group 00:29:48 - The Core Band and Trusted Collaborators 00:30:43 - Recording the Album Live in the Studio 00:35:30 - Suzanne Vega, Synthesizers, and Musical Heroes 00:39:30 - Special Guests on the Record 00:44:06 - Peter Holsapple and the Title Track 00:46:18 - Psychedelia, Electronics, and Dream Collaborations 00:50:29 - The Story Behind The Title Track: “Maybe Things Will Be All Right” 00:55:48 - Maybe Things Will Be Alright - Lyric Video 00:58:42 - Song Spotlight: “Underground” 01:01:31 - The Reality of Releasing Independent Music Today 01:03:48 - Why It’s Harder Than Ever to Get Attention 01:06:20 - Questions Michael Didn’t Ask 01:07:24 - Why Jim Refuses Spotify 01:08:42 - Album Release Show and Live Dates 01:10:35 - Where to Find Jim Allen’s Music 01:11:06 - Closing Thoughts Subscribe for more conversations exploring the intersection of creativity, technology, business, and music. #KickAndSnare #JimAllen #Songwriting #MusicJournalism #IndependentMusic #PowerPop #RootsRock #Bandcamp #MusicPodcast #MichaelNevins #Kick&Snare #Peterholsapple
Jan 26

From Bratmobile to CD Baby President: Molly Neuman’s story is a masterclass in building a career

In this episode, Molly Neuman joins Michael Nevins to share how CD Baby has changed (and what’s coming next), why the artist “DIY” journey is way more complex than people think, and how platforms earn trust when the experience is intuitive and fair. They also get into the pressure artists feel to do everything (music, content, business), and why it’s worth being honest about what success can look like. Along the way: Riot Grrrl, music scenes, and community-building; drumming as both craft and metaphor (multiple limbs / multiple priorities); and the mindset Molly uses to navigate a long, evolving career in music and tech. 00:00 - Kick & Snare intro 00:18 - Meet Molly Neuman (CD Baby President) 02:43 - Squiggly careers 04:53 - What CD Baby does today (and why “DIY” is more complex than it sounds) 06:59 - Molly’s Downtown journey: Songtrust → CMO → CD Baby 08:58 - Repositioning CD Baby: infrastructure, operations, and competing in a crowded market 11:24 - “By artists, for artists” + modern artist needs (global scale, new expectations) 12:38 - UX is the brand: why product experience beats logos 14:05 - Labels as filters: identity, taste, and trust (Discord, scenes, discovery) 18:26 - Labels as filters: identity, taste, and trust (Discord, scenes, discovery) 22:40 - Scenes, movements, and Riot Grrrl: how it grew (and what it wasn’t) 37:15 - Representation and visibility: why it changes people’s lives 42:12 - Career growth via new environments (Kickstarter lessons, scaling Songtrust) 44:36 - Untapped opportunity: supporting more women creators 45:51 - Getting her start as a drummer: learning by watching the kick drum 52:28 - Getting better in your 50s 53:51 - Drumming and leadership: multitasking, anticipation, staying in time 55:36 - Artist tools: being real about what artists need now 58:05 - What Molly’s listening to right now + closing
Jan 5

Is AI a Revolution Like Electricity? Cliff Fluet on Music Rights & What’s Next

Cliff Fluet (partner at Louis Silkin, joint head of Media & Entertainment; Chair of Music Technology UK; founder of Eleven Advisory) joins Michael Nevins to unpack how music, tech, and IP are colliding in the age of AI. We cover: why MusicTechnology UK focuses on funding + ecosystem building, why Cliff believes AI is a paradigm shift on the scale of electricity, and his core argument: “Copyright isn’t the problem. Licensing is the answer.” Plus: the case for focusing on outputs vs inputs, the music industry’s data problem, and practical advice for founders and people breaking into music tech. Cliff Fluet (Louis Silkin): #MusicTech #AI #Copyright #Licensing #MusicIndustry #startups 00:00 - Start 00:23 - Intro: Cliff Fluet (Louis Silkin, MusicTech UK, Eleven Advisory) 01:54 - From hi-fi salesman to Warner Music: Cliff’s origin story 04:00 - Warner Music in the CD boom → internet flips the industry 04:47 - New media at Warner: early streaming + disruption 05:51 - The jump to radio: “I’ve got to go on the other side and get some rights from you.” 06:57 - Private practice: advising mobile + early streaming (Pandora → DSPs) 07:58 - Why “legal + strategic” (and founding Eleven Advisory) 09:22 - Building MusicTech UK: the what and the why 12:56 - The #1 problem for music tech startups 16:03 - Community + “space & place”: H.O.M.E. + Tileyard Studios ecosystems 19:48 - Does the UK get enough credit for music innovation? 23:58 - AI as a revolution (not an evolution) 33:47 - AI training data + copyright: can we “unscramble the egg”? 34:23 - Key thesis: “Licensing is the answer” (outputs vs inputs) 38:13 - Flying the plane while building it: contracting in uncertainty 44:13 - The music industry’s biggest blind spot: data 48:16 - Disruption vs curiosity: what founders get wrong 51:56 - Career advice: curiosity wins 54:25 - What Cliff is listening to now 56:23 - Cool tech: Bria & Uhmbrella 57:07 - Closing: “help write music’s next verse.”
11/17/2025

Privacy Law, Songwriting, and Collaboration: How Alan Chappell Gets The Mix Right

Michael Nevins welcomes guest Alan Chappell, President of Chappell and Associates, ad tech privacy expert, and multifaceted musician. Alan shares insights into balancing a demanding legal career with his passion for music, discussing his songwriting process, the impact of AI on the creative industry, and experiences working with renowned producers like Jimmy Einer and Jerry Harrison. The conversation explores the evolution of music technology, incorporating personal anecdotes about Alan's musical journey and his perspectives on the integration of creativity and business. Alan also offers advice for aspiring creatives, emphasizing the importance of embracing chaos in the creative process. More about Alan and his music: https://thisischapell.com/ And More about Chappell & Associates: https://thisischapell.com/chapellassociates/
09/17/2025

Drummer. Artist. Disruptor. Advocate. How Richard Burgess & A2IM Empower Independent Music

In this episode of The Kick & Snare Podcast, host Michael Nevins talks with Richard James Burgess, President & CEO of A2IM (American Association of Independent Music). They explore what defines “independent,” how A2IM supports its member labels, the challenges of streaming payouts, the battle for fair compensation from platforms like TikTok, and what’s next for music and AI. Richard also shares stories and insights from his varied music career as a drummer, signed artist, producer, artist manager, label exec, and his current role at A2IM. Fun facts: Richard coined the term “EDM” (Electronic Dance Music), produced Spandau Ballet, and was an innovator and early adopter in music tech, He contributed to the development of the the first Simmons electronic drum kits and championed the The Fairlight CMI, a ground breaking digital synthesizer, music sampler, and digital audio workstation, This episode is an essential listen for anyone passionate about independent music, digital rights, music tech, and innovation in the music industry. 🌐 Learn more about A2IM: https://a2im.org/ 00:00 - Intro: Meet Richard Burgess 01:16 - Discussion Outline and Topics 03:12 - Understanding A2IM and A Definition of “Independent” in Music 05:27 - History and Mission of A2IM and Digital Disruption 11:01 - Indies vs Majors: A Complicated Relationship 13:25 - Misconceptions About Independent Labels 14:31 - The Critical Role of Independent Labels in Music Innovation 17:05 - Support and Advocacy for Independent Labels and Artists 20:51 - Challenges and Opportunities in the Digital Music Landscape 25:08 - The Impact of AI on Independent Music 27:45 - Supporting Artist Well-Being Through A2IM Programs 30:48 - Health Insurance for Artists 34:10 - Reflecting on a Decade at A2IM 38:34 - Transitioning Leadership at A2IM 41:55 - A Journey Through Music: From Drummer to Producer 43:38 - From Drummer to Studio Musician 44:40 - From Drummer for Hire to Signed Artist 46:29 - Transition to Producing, Including Producing Spandau Ballet 47:06 - Coining The Terms “EDM” and “New Romantic Movement” 48:24 - Why Drummers Are Often Great Producers 49:52 - The Move To Artist Management, Smithsonian Folkways, And How Lead Belly Played A Role 50:53 - Getting Involved With A2IM 51:20 - Studying at Berklee with Alan Dawson 53:45 - Advice for Artists & Labels: Finding Your Audience
08/04/2025

Fixing Music Licensing for Cheerleading, Sports & Performing Arts | Chantal Epp | Kick & Snare Podcast

🎙️ In this episode of The Kick and Snare Podcast, Michael Nevins speaks with Chantal Epp, founder and CEO of ClicknClear, a music rights tech company solving licensing issues for choreographed sports like cheerleading, dance, and gymnastics. Chantal shares her journey from music licensing at a Peter Gabriel startup to becoming a two-time world champion cheerleader and creating a solution to a widespread problem in the sports and performing arts world. We dive into: ✅ How ClicknClear helps athletes and teams license music legally ✅ The unique challenges of music rights for sports routines ✅ Building inclusive cheerleading programs & Paralympic initiatives ✅ The role of Music Technology UK in supporting founders ✅ Challenges facing music tech startups today 🔔 Subscribe for more conversations at the intersection of music, technology, and business. 👉 For more on Click n Clear: https://www.clicknclear.com 👉 Follow Kick & Snare Podcast: https://kickandsnare.com 00:00 - Introduction to Chantal Epp & ClicknClear 03:50 - The Challenge of Music Licensing in Sports 05:47 - The Role of Education in Music Licensing 07:22 - Chantal’s Journey as a World Champion Cheerleader 09:15 - Advocacy for Inclusive Cheerleading And Other Sports 15:01 - Navigating Language and Inclusion 19:15 - The Importance of Community and Music Technology UK 21:04 - Key Challenges Facing Music Tech Startups 24:14 - Women in Male-Dominated Industries 30:06 - Chantal’s Personal Connection to Music 33:17 - The Therapeutic Power of Music #MusicTech #ChantalEpp #ClicknClear #MusicLicensing #Cheerleading #AdaptiveSports #MusicTechnologyUK #KickAndSnarePodcast #FounderStories

”Kick & Snare” Conversations with Creative Thinkers, Builders, and Visionaries

Creator

Kick & Snare
Years Active

2024 - 2026
Episodes

19
Rating

Explicit
Copyright

© Copyright 2025 All rights reserved.
Show Website

The Kick & Snare Podcast