The Campaign | A Marketing Podcast by 97th Floor

97th Floor
  • 5.0 (9)
  • Marketing
  • Updated Weekly

The Campaign is a marketing podcast about better knowing your audience, innovating beyond best practice and converting visitors into customers. 97th Floor is the number one digital marketing agency built to create pipeline and revenue for clients by crafting and executing custom, audience-first channel strategies that deliver bottom-line results. Our core services include SEO (Search Engine Optimization) and AI Search Optimization, Advertising (PPC, SEM, Social Ads, Display), and Content Marketing. For over twenty years, 97th Floor has worked in the cybersecurity, finance, industrial and manufacturing, insurance, software, and health and wellness industries. 97th Floor proudly works with a diverse range of clients, from well-funded startups to Fortune 50 companies, including Oracle, McKinsey & Company, Google, and Crumbl. Learn more and schedule a discovery call at 97thfloor.com.

  1. 1d ago

    BrightonSEO: Brands Don’t Lose to Competition, They Lose to Confusion w/ Mike Witham, Alyssa Felix & Noah Dansie at 97th Floor

    Mike Witham, Alyssa Felix, and Noah Dansie are back from BrightonSEO, and their biggest surprise was how little anyone has AI search figured out. They cover entity mapping, schema, attribution, and why technical SEO still comes first. Key takeaways: Confusion costs more than competition. Entity mapping helps LLMs understand who you are. Schema needs a strategy. Treat it as a checkbox and you’ll see no results. Attribution was never clean. Track prompts tied to your buyer persona and use the data as evidence. Bots have to find you first. Keep key content in your HTML, not behind JavaScript. Resources:  Connect with Alyssa Felix on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alyssa-felix-55016658  Connect with Noah Dansie on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noahdansie  Connect with Mike Witham on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-o-witham/  Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/.  About Alyssa Felix: Alyssa is a Search Marketer at 97th Floor, where she helps enterprise and high-growth brands navigate the shift from traditional search to AI-driven discovery. With deep expertise across technical SEO, answer engine optimization, and AI search visibility, Alyssa specializes in helping clients understand and win within evolving search surfaces. Known for pairing rigorous data analysis with clear, client-facing strategy, she helps brands turn AI search presence into measurable, revenue-driving results. About Mike Witham:  Mike is the Head of Search at 97th Floor, where he has spent the past eight years leading SEO strategy and performance for enterprise and high-growth brands. Based in Lehi, Ut. he specializes in building data-driven search campaigns that achieve bottom line results for clients. With his ability to create holistic, full funnel marketing campaigns, Mike helps teams turn organic search into a highly profitable, revenue driving channel. About Noah Dansie: Noah joined 97th Floor last year, bringing his digital marketing specialization from Brigham Young University’s Marriott School of Business as well as his holistic understanding of marketing  from the multiple industries he’s worked in already. (Fashion with TAFT and Kizik, Beauty and Cosmetics with Dime Beauty, Consumer Goods with SharkNinja, and Leadership Consulting with FranklinCovey). Noah has expertise in helping marketing leaders identify the best way to approach what’s keeping them up at night in their marketing activities that aren’t getting the job done, and wouldn’t recommend any other fulfillment team than 97th Floor’s very own when it comes to digital challenges.  Timestamps: 0:26 - What surprised us at BrightonSEO 2:30 - Entity mapping and why schema needs a strategy 11:00 - Attribution and prompt tracking 22:00 - Why technical SEO still comes first 26:15 - Off-page: be where the LLM learns

    BrightonSEO: Brands Don’t Lose to Competition, They Lose to Confusion w/ Mike Witham, Alyssa Felix & Noah Dansie at 97th Floor

  2. Oct 13

    Attribution Is Dead. Now What? w/ Rand Fishkin, CEO & Co-Founder of SparkToro

    This episode unpacks why zero-click search now defines marketing. We look at new data on how much search activity never results in a click, why attribution was always shakier than it looked, and why short-form video and audience research are now a marketer's real edge. Key takeaways: Zero-click search keeps climbing: Over two-thirds of Google searches now end without a click, the fastest growth in over a decade. Attribution was mostly an illusion: Paid ads get credit by default because they generate a click, even when organic influence drove the sale. Short-form video is the new superpower: It holds attention better than any format before it, on every platform. Reddit builds reach, not clicks: Low click-through, but outsized influence on journalists and other tastemakers. Brand still wins: Recognition, not best practices, increasingly drives both search and AI visibility. Resources:  Pre-order Rand’s new book, Zero Click Marketing: https://zeroclickmarketing.co/book  Connect with Rand on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/randfishkin  Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/  Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/.  About Rand Fishkin: Rand Fishkin is CEO and cofounder of three companies: SparkToro, makers of fine audience research software, pun-filled Google Alerts alternative Alertmouse, and indie game developer Snackbar Studio. He’s the co-author (with Amanda Natividad) of the upcoming Zero Click Marketing and 2018’s Lost and Founder. When Rand’s not working, he’s usually traveling with or cooking a fancy meal for the love of his life, bestselling author Geraldine DeRuiter. Timestamps: 00:40 - Updated data on zero-click search since the last episode 04:41 - Zero-click searches jump to 67%, the fastest growth in a decade 09:27 - Why paid media keeps getting credit organic actually earned 17:36 - Short-form video as marketing's biggest current edge 31:31 - Rand's Reddit distribution strategy and why it works 42:00 - Convincing executives to invest in the right channels

    Attribution Is Dead. Now What? w/ Rand Fishkin, CEO & Co-Founder of SparkToro

  3. Sep 15

    Why Credibility is The New Brand Currency in an AI World w/ Rachel Neppes, Alliance Marketing and PR Lead at Targus

    AI has made it easier than ever to flood the market with content, and that's exactly the problem. Rachel Neppes, who manages Alliance Marketing and PR for Targus, makes the case that credibility is now the only real differentiator in a world where audiences can feel the difference between authentic storytelling and generated noise. In this conversation, she breaks down how brands build credibility systematically across every channel, why most partnerships don't move the needle, and what it actually takes to earn trust when skepticism is at an all-time high. Key Takeaways: AI content creates noise, not trust. Use it to strengthen your message, not replace your voice. Audiences are more skeptical than ever and can feel the difference. Every company needs an AI content policy. Disclosure isn't weakness; transparency is what keeps your audience believing you. Credibility is an ecosystem. Owned, earned, and paid content all need to run on the same credible messaging, and third-party validation carries more weight than anything you say about yourself. Don't stop at the win. A media placement loses value fast if you're not amplifying it internally and across channels. Resources:  Learn more about Targus: targus.com  Connect with Rachel on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelneppes/  Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/  Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/.  About Rachel Neppes: Rachel Neppes is a marketing leader focused on building brand credibility and relevance that drive demand and growth. At Targus, Rachel leads Alliance marketing and global communications, advancing partnerships, go-to-market strategy, and positioning to strengthen market presence and drive measurable business impact. Timestamps: 1:46 - Why AI content becomes noise 2:48 - How Rachel defines credibility 5:30 - Every business needs an AI policy 6:03 - Credibility as an ecosystem 10:13 - The mistake of cutting PR budgets 16:14 - Where to start building credibility

    Why Credibility is The New Brand Currency in an AI World w/ Rachel Neppes, Alliance Marketing and PR Lead at Targus

  4. Sep 1

    How to get your team to ACTUALLY dive into AI w/ Pete Larkin, Co-Founder of UXM

    Most people know they should be using AI more. Almost nobody knows how to actually get there. Pete Larkin, GTM engineer, AI builder, and host of the AI Deep Dive podcast, has done the unglamorous work of figuring it out through time-blocked late nights, robotics projects with his kids, and a family operating system he's building to become a better father and spouse. In this conversation, Pete and Paxton walk through the most common barriers to AI adoption, pulled directly from a real survey, and tackle each one head-on with practical, honest advice. Key takeaways: Time is the #1 blocker: Time-block 45 minutes daily. Leaders must build AI learning into work hours, not personal time. Start with $20: Claude Pro at $20/month is Pete's first recommendation. Don't overthink cost until you're deep into API builds. Hallucinations are dropping, but taste still matters: The real skill is knowing when to trust AI output and when to verify it. The churning butter take on dependency: Some skills will go obsolete and that's fine. Protect your critical thinking by using AI as a thought companion, not a shortcut. The TIME framework: Taste, Impact, Matching, and Elevate offers a practical lens for deciding how and when to deploy AI versus human judgment. Resources:  TheAIDeepDive: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ai-deep-dive/id1836482206   Utah marketing events: www.theumx.com  Connect with Pete on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peteralarkin/  Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/  Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/.  About Pete Larkin: Pete Larkin began his career in film, running a successful production company before realizing he wanted more influence over the strategy behind the work. That led him into marketing, where his film background and training from one of the nation’s top ad schools helped him build a career as a marketing executive, entrepreneur, and creator. Today, he has evolved again... this time into GTM engineering and AI orchestration. He now helps organizations and individuals navigate the fast-moving world of AI through agents, workflows, workshops, and consulting. Timestamps: 03:32 – The #1 barrier to AI adoption: time, and how to work around it  10:45 – Hallucinations and trust: knowing when to double-check AI's work  17:40 – The TASTE framework for winning with AI  20:02 – Inside Pete's AI side projects, from a family "operating system" to a daily newsletter podcast

    How to get your team to ACTUALLY dive into AI w/ Pete Larkin, Co-Founder of UXM

  5. Aug 18

    What Most Marketers Get Wrong About Influence w/ Dr. Robert Cialdini, Author of Influence

    Dr. Robert Cialdini has spent his career researching the science of why people say yes, and his seven principles of influence have become the backbone of how the world's best marketers, salespeople, and leaders communicate. In this conversation, he shares where marketers consistently misapply his research, how AI is making the line between influence and manipulation harder to hold, and what the science actually says about techniques most people think they already understand. Key takeaways for marketing leaders: In authority vs. an authority: Most managers confuse power with persuasion. One lasts, one doesn't. Stop manufacturing urgency: If a real constraint exists, point to it. And limited number always beats limited time. Give first, make it tailored: The McDonald's balloon study showed parents spent 25% more when the gift came before the order, not after. Humanize everything: In-person asks are 16x more effective than email. A video call cuts that to 2x. Resources:  The Cialdini Institute is giving 97th Floor followers their Cialdini Influence Assessment for free for 30 days. Use code 97FLOOR at checkout: https://assessment.cialdini.com/  They’re also offering 20% off the Cialdini Certified Practitioner Course. Use code 97FLOORCCP at checkout: https://cialdini.com/certified-practitioner  Connect with Dr. Cialdini on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertcialdini  Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/  Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/.  About Dr. Cialdini: Robert Cialdini, a thought leader in the fields of influence and persuasion, has spent his career publishing scientific research on what causes people to say “Yes” to requests. The results of his research, his ensuing articles, and his New York Times bestselling books have led to his election to the National Academy of Sciences and the American Academy of Arts and Science. His 7 Principles of Persuasion have become a cornerstone for any organization serious about significantly increasing its influence, while doing so ethically. As a keynote speaker, Dr. Cialdini is renowned for his ability to translate the science of influence through valuable and memorable stories that result in immediate and long-term business applications. His books, including his New York Times Bestselling Influence and Pre-Suasion, have sold more than seven-million copies in 50 languages. As a result, he is frequently regarded as “The Godfather of Influence”. Timestamps:  1:05 - AI, citation rates, and the persuasion arms race 9:12 - Being "in authority" vs. being "an authority" 16:18 - Warren Buffett's credibility trick 26:44 - The McDonald's balloon study 44:32 - Daniel Kahneman's biggest influence on Cialdini

    What Most Marketers Get Wrong About Influence w/ Dr. Robert Cialdini, Author of Influence

  6. Aug 4

    AI Search: What’s Wrong with Everything Your Dashboard is Telling You w/Ted Coxworth, President of Extensor

    As cookies disappear, AI search obscures organic traffic, and paid media consumes a growing share of marketing budgets, attribution has never been more complex—or more consequential. Ted Coxworth, President of Extensor,, has been building Media Mix Models since 2013, and in this episode he breaks down why most measurement stacks are quietly leading marketers into an expensive trap. Ted walks through the difference between MMM, MTA, and incrementality testing—and why the smartest measurement programs use all three. He also tackles the AI overview problem head-on: why last-click models can't touch it, and why correlation-based modeling is currently the best tool available for measuring its impact. Key takeaways:  Last-click is costing you: Over-reliance on easily attributable channels captures demand but stops generating it, and most measurement systems won't tell you that's happening MMM was built for this moment: Cookie loss, AI overviews, zero-click search—MMM's correlation-based approach sidesteps all of it Better measurement changes the conversation: When you can prove multi-touch influence, you earn the budget to invest where it actually matters Resources:  Learn about Ted's work at goextensor.com Connect with Ted on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/ted-coxworth-4330568b  Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/  Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/.  About Ted Coxworth:  Ted Coxworth is President of Extensor,, a marketing measurement firm that shows brands what's working, what's not, and how to get more from their media budget. He works with both in-house marketing teams and agencies to assess channels ranging from Google and Meta to billboards and radio, giving him a front-row seat to the measurement challenges across B2B and B2C businesses alike. He believes every marketer deserves an honest picture of how their budget works.  Timestamps: 1:54 - MMM as the answer to cookie decay 5:39 - What media mix modeling actually is 7:37 - Weather, competitors, and surprise data 11:11 - MMM, incrementality testing, and MTA as a trio 15:03 - AI search's measurement blind spot 21:27 - Why paid media's budget share keeps climbing

    AI Search: What’s Wrong with Everything Your Dashboard is Telling You w/Ted Coxworth, President of Extensor

  7. Jul 21

    The New SEO Pipeline: How Brands Win in AI Search w/Kevin Indig, Organic Growth Advisor

    AI search doesn't work like classic SEO. Kevin Indig breaks down the new pipeline brands need to win in AI search: getting retrieved, getting cited, and getting trusted. He and Paxton dig into why citations don't guarantee mentions, why original data still beats everything else, and why the old click funnel no longer tells you what's working. Key takeaways: Retrieved isn't cited: Being crawled by an LLM only makes you eligible for citation, not guaranteed. Mentions beat citations: Users act on brand mentions, not source links, and the ratio varies by LLM. Trust beats position: Users pick the top result in a shortlist 75% of the time, unless a trusted brand shows up anywhere on the list. Self-reported attribution is the new north star: Click funnels break in AI search, so ask customers directly how they found you. Resources:  Sign up for the Growth Memo Newsletter: https://www.growth-memo.com/  Check out Kevin’s work: https://www.kevin-indig.com/  Connect with Kevin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinindig  Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/  Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/.  About Kevin Indig: Kevin has led organic growth at Atlassian, G2, and Shopify, and now advises companies like Meta, Ramp, and Upwork on building cost-efficient acquisition channels. He is the author of Growth Memo, a weekly newsletter read by 26,000+ leaders, and speaks globally on growth strategy.  Timestamps: 1:06 - The retrieved, cited, trusted framework 6:23 - The ghost citation problem 9:57 - How to test selection bias 14:18 - Original data and information gain 21:23 - Duplicate content isn't a risk anymore 28:07 - Self-reported attribution over the click funnel

    The New SEO Pipeline: How Brands Win in AI Search w/Kevin Indig, Organic Growth Advisor

  8. Jul 7

    Why the Best CMOs Are Getting Comfortable With Ambiguity w/Sam Brown, VP of Client Services @ 97th Floor

    The attribution model marketers have relied on for years was never as reliable as we wanted to believe. Sam Brown, VP of Strategy at 97th Floor, makes the case that the zero-click era isn't just changing how we measure marketing, it's forcing us to finally do marketing the right way. In this conversation, Sam breaks down why the obsession with credit and channel-specific metrics has made marketers worse at their jobs, and what the shift to audience-first, bottom-line thinking actually looks like in practice. Key takeaways:  Perfect attribution was always a myth, and chasing it is costing you more than you think Brand mentions in AI matter more than citations; visibility is the new conversion Audience research isn't a fluffy deliverable; it's the only real foundation for GEO strategy Blending your team's roles around revenue instead of channels is the competitive advantage AI makes possible Resources:  Reach Sam at: samantha@97thfloor.com  Connect with Sam on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brownsamanthak  Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/  Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/.  About Sam Brown: Sam has been a marketing leader for over 7 years. Her early career was dedicated to developing and executing on results-focused marketing campaigns for enterprise clients in an agency setting. She has managed Key accounts including Google, Dell, and AT&T. In her current role at 97th Floor, she leads  our fulfillment teams, focusing on nurturing a thriving culture and enhancing client experiences. Her marketing knowledge and expertise span over both B2B and B2C industries. She manages a department of over 40 individuals, and is passionate about fostering career growth and empowering her team to reach their full potential. Timestamps: 01:10 – Zero-click defined 05:15 – Measuring success via brand mentions 09:50 – Specialization created the credit problem 13:00 – Correlation over perfect attribution 16:00 – Redefining SEO goals beyond traffic 22:00 – GEO built on audience, not keywords 28:00 – "Jobs to be done" framework

    Why the Best CMOs Are Getting Comfortable With Ambiguity w/Sam Brown, VP of Client Services @ 97th Floor
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About

The Campaign is a marketing podcast about better knowing your audience, innovating beyond best practice and converting visitors into customers. 97th Floor is the number one digital marketing agency built to create pipeline and revenue for clients by crafting and executing custom, audience-first channel strategies that deliver bottom-line results. Our core services include SEO (Search Engine Optimization) and AI Search Optimization, Advertising (PPC, SEM, Social Ads, Display), and Content Marketing. For over twenty years, 97th Floor has worked in the cybersecurity, finance, industrial and manufacturing, insurance, software, and health and wellness industries. 97th Floor proudly works with a diverse range of clients, from well-funded startups to Fortune 50 companies, including Oracle, McKinsey & Company, Google, and Crumbl. Learn more and schedule a discovery call at 97thfloor.com.

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