The Unfolding Thought Podcast

Eric Pratum
  • 4.9 (16)
  • Management
  • Updated Weekly

The Unfolding Thought Podcast explores how people think—and how that thinking shapes what we do next. Host Eric Pratum talks with authors, researchers, executives, creators, and unconventional thinkers about leadership, work, technology, strategy, culture, psychology, and human behavior. Each conversation goes past obvious answers to uncover the assumptions, incentives, systems, narratives, and patterns shaping our choices. The goal is not debate or performance. It is a reflective, practical conversation that produces insight listeners can use. New episodes every week. Watch, listen, and browse every episode at https://unfoldingthought.com. The Unfolding Thought Podcast is produced by Inbound & Agile, which provides paid media, analytics, conversion tracking, CRM integration, and technical marketing execution for internal marketing teams.

  1. 6d ago ·  Video

    What Simple Systems Are For | Mike Michalowicz

    Mike Michalowicz has spent nearly two decades developing simple systems for complicated business problems. In this episode of The Unfolding Thought Podcast, Eric talks with Mike about when simplicity helps, when it removes something essential, and what a constraint can reveal. Eric looks across Mike’s books. The Toilet Paper Entrepreneur places responsibility on the founder who must keep everything moving. Clockwork and All In ask that founder to build a business and team that can continue without the founder. Responsibility does not disappear. It changes from carrying every task to designing conditions in which other people can move the work forward. The conversation then turns to artificial intelligence. Mike uses a photograph of Picasso with a camera to think about AI as a creative tool. But Joan Fontcuberta added the camera in 1995 to André Villers’s 1962 portrait. The manipulated photograph raises another question about AI: What happens when the same tool that helps us create also makes evidence harder to trust? Mike describes what he is seeing in professional services and manufacturing, why replacing one task does not mean an entire profession disappears, and why AI adoption may happen quietly through tools people already use. He also explains why he chooses an optimistic story about a future nobody can predict. Topics Discussed and Questions Answered When does profound simplicity remove something essential? Why does Profit First reveal problems rather than fix them? What does Mike mean when he calls a simple idea the first rung of a ladder? How did Mike’s thinking change from The Toilet Paper Entrepreneur to Clockwork and All In? What pattern connects the constraints across Mike’s books? How can environmental design change financial behavior? What does the altered photograph of Picasso reveal about AI and trust? How is AI changing professional services and manufacturing? Will early adopters pull away, or will AI adoption happen quietly through familiar tools? Why does Mike choose optimism about an uncertain future?About Mike Michalowicz Mike Michalowicz is an entrepreneur, author, and creator of Profit First. His books include The Toilet Paper Entrepreneur, The Pumpkin Plan, Profit First, Surge, Clockwork, Fix This Next, Get Different, My Money Bunnies, All In, and The Money Habit. By age 35, he had built and sold two multimillion-dollar companies. He now runs two companies and is a partner in two dozen more, using them as laboratories for the systems he teaches. Links Mike Michalowicz’s website: https://mikemichalowicz.com/ Explore all of Mike’s books: https://mikemichalowicz.com/books/ Becoming Self Made: https://relayfi.com/becoming-self-made-podcast/ The Museu Picasso on the altered photograph: https://museupicassobcn.cat/en/whats-on/news/picasso-behind-and-front-cameraFor more episodes: https://unfoldingthought.com/ Questions or guest ideas: eric@inboundandagile.com

    What Simple Systems Are For | Mike Michalowicz

  2. Sep 7 ·  Video

    The Hidden Structure Behind Self-Help | Dr. Jeremy Stevenson

    Most self-help advice does not fail because the advice is wrong. It fails at the point where knowing must become doing. Clinical psychologist Dr. Jeremy Stevenson and co-author Spencer Greenberg analyzed 106 self-help books and 23 therapies, extracted nearly 500 specific techniques, and discovered that they could be organized into 12 broad psychological strategies. They call them The 12 Levers. In this episode of The Unfolding Thought Podcast, Eric talks with Jeremy about how cognitive restructuring changed Jeremy’s own life and eventually led him into clinical psychology. Jeremy explains why the most useful part of self-help is not inspiration, theory, or storytelling. It is a specific, repeatable action a person can actually control. Eric and Jeremy use anxiety as a test case. Depending on what is causing it, progress might begin with analyzing the problem, approaching feared situations, reframing thoughts, changing the body, or redirecting attention. The goal is not to find one technique that works for everything. It is to understand the problem well enough to choose an appropriate lever. Jeremy also describes his favorite lever: doing more “glad-you-did-it” activities. Unlike immediate gratification, these are actions that may require effort but leave your life better afterward. That leads to the central problem of the conversation: Why does knowing what to do so rarely mean that we actually do it? Topics Discussed and Questions Answered Why does good advice so often fail to change behavior? Can nearly 500 self-help techniques be reduced to 12 strategies? What makes a psychological technique specific, repeatable, and controllable? How did cognitive restructuring change Jeremy Stevenson’s life? How should someone choose the right lever for a particular problem? What can ABC Analysis reveal about anxiety? How do gradual exposure, cognitive restructuring, breathing, and attention training differ? What is behavioral activation? What are “glad-you-did-it” activities? How can mood monitoring reveal which activities improve well-being? Why does breaking an action into smaller steps help overcome resistance? When might a problem have medical, environmental, or structural causes rather than primarily psychological ones? Where is the scientific evidence strong, and where is it still incomplete?About Dr. Jeremy Stevenson Dr. Jeremy Stevenson is a clinical psychologist, researcher, and co-author of The 12 Levers: The Complete Psychological Toolkit for Improving Your Life. He earned his PhD from Flinders University, where his dissertation examined self-compassion and social anxiety. He has treated hundreds of clients across thousands of clinical hours and has published research in academic journals. Links The 12 Levers: https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/spencer-greenberg-phd/the-12-levers/9780306837463/ Official book website: https://12leversbook.com/ Jeremy Stevenson’s website: https://drjeremystevenson.com/For more episodes: https://unfoldingthought.com/ Questions or guest ideas: eric@inboundandagile.com

    The Hidden Structure Behind Self-Help | Dr. Jeremy Stevenson

  3. Aug 31 ·  Video

    Can AI Have Values? | Geoffrey Moore on Consciousness, Ethics & The Infinite Staircase

    Geoffrey Moore gave technology one of its most enduring metaphors: Crossing the Chasm. But what happens when a useful framework is mistaken for reality? In this episode of The Unfolding Thought Podcast, Eric talks with Geoffrey about The Infinite Staircase, his effort to connect physics, biology, consciousness, culture, language, ethics, and human purpose. Geoffrey explains why every framework has an “efficient frontier,” a boundary beyond which it stops clarifying reality and begins distorting it. Frameworks matter most when leaders must act without enough data, but they must be continually tested against facts and results. The conversation then turns to human values. Geoffrey argues that ethics also emerge from strategies that helped mammals survive: nurturing the young, protecting the group, building trust, and creating outcomes that benefit more than one participant. That raises a difficult question about artificial intelligence. AI excels in language, narrative, and analytics. It can imitate desire, consciousness, culture, and values. But is imitation the same as possession? Geoffrey argues that human intelligence is inseparable from a vulnerable biological organism. Computers do not share that foundation. They may emulate human values, but those values do not organically emerge from machines as they do from biological and social life. Eric and Geoffrey also discuss destructive power, shared abundance, political polarization, companies that optimize themselves into irrelevance, and how people can respond when technological change leaves them powerless. Ultimately, the conversation arrives at a question larger than technology: During the limited time each of us has, what is most important for us to be in service to? Topics Discussed and Questions Answered When does a useful metaphor become misleading? How can frameworks guide decisions when reliable data does not exist? What does The Infinite Staircase explain about emergence? Where do human values come from? Why can destructive behavior spread faster than moral behavior? Why do successful companies optimize themselves into irrelevance? Does AI possess values, desire, or consciousness, or only imitate them? What happens when AI improves itself without a human in the loop? How can people avoid “sleepwalking into irrelevance”? What does it mean to serve something beyond yourself?About Geoffrey Moore Geoffrey Moore is an author, speaker, and advisor whose books include Crossing the Chasm, Inside the Tornado, The Gorilla Game, Escape Velocity, Zone to Win, and The Infinite Staircase. After beginning his career as an English professor, he moved into technology sales, marketing, consulting, and venture investing. He has advised executives at Adobe, Cisco, HP, Microsoft, Salesforce, and other technology companies. Episode Links Geoffrey Moore’s website: https://geoffreyamoore.com/ Geoffrey Moore’s books: https://geoffreyamoore.com/author/ Geoffrey Moore on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/geoffreyamoore/ Zone to Win: https://geoffreyamoore.com/book/zone-to-win/For more episodes: https://unfoldingthought.com/Questions or guest ideas: eric@inboundandagile.com

    Can AI Have Values? | Geoffrey Moore on Consciousness, Ethics & The Infinite Staircase

  4. Aug 24 ·  Video

    Your Productivity Problem Might Be Your Boss | Shawn Vanderhoven

    Your productivity problem may not be yours. We treat focus like a matter of personal discipline: close Slack, block the calendar, stop checking email, and try harder. Shawn Vanderhoven’s research suggests something more uncomfortable. Productivity is social. A workplace built around unclear priorities, hidden workloads, drive-by delegation, and constant interruptions can overwhelm even the most disciplined person. In this episode, Eric talks with Shawn, a partner at The Wiseman Group and author of Pause: How to Lead Brilliant Work in a Busy World, written with Anne Vanderhoven. Based on three years of research, Shawn explains what distinguishes leaders who create space for deep work from those who unintentionally destroy it. The best leaders slow things down just long enough to clarify priorities, reveal the work nobody is discussing, remove distractions, and then accelerate on what matters. Eric and Shawn discuss why personal productivity systems fail inside distracted teams, how unclear priorities contribute to employee dissatisfaction and turnover, and why a seemingly five-minute request can derail someone’s entire day. They also examine how employees can “pause up” when their boss is creating the distraction, why good delegation begins with understanding what someone is already carrying, and how leaders can notice struggle before losing talented people. Finally, they consider what AI does to deep work. Faster tools can tempt people to accept more projects and encourage leaders to assume that everything should happen faster. Shawn argues that using AI well may actually require more protected thinking time, not less. The central takeaway: prioritization is not simply identifying the most important thing. It is deciding what you will make most important and accepting what that decision costs. Questions answered Why is productivity a social problem? Why do personal productivity systems fail at work? How do leaders unintentionally destroy focus? What is the hidden workload? How can unclear priorities cause talented employees to leave? What is drive-by delegation? How can employees “pause up” with a distracting manager? Does AI reduce or increase the need for deep thinking? How can leaders discover what is stealing their team’s attention?Episode links Pause: How to Lead Brilliant Work in a Busy World: https://www.pausebook.co/ Official publisher page: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Pause/Shawn-Vanderhoven/9781668049488 Take the “How Distracting Are You?” quiz: https://tally.so/r/Y5vM76 Connect with Shawn on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shawnvanderhoven Shawn at The Wiseman Group: https://thewisemangroup.com/who-we-are/our-team/shawn-vanderhoven/For more episodes: https://unfoldingthought.com Questions or guest ideas: eric@inboundandagile.com

    Your Productivity Problem Might Be Your Boss | Shawn Vanderhoven

  5. Aug 17 ·  Video

    Did MAGA Take the Deal Jesus Refused? | Jonathan Rauch

    Jonathan Rauch is a lifelong atheist who once expected declining religious influence to make America more tolerant, rational, and peaceful. Instead, he watched politics become a substitute religion, supplying identity, belonging, moral certainty, and a perpetual struggle between good and evil. His unexpected conclusion: liberal democracy needs Christianity. In this conversation, Rauch explains the argument behind Cross Purposes: Christianity’s Broken Bargain with Democracy. He says Donald Trump offered white evangelicals power in exchange for loyalty, a bargain Rauch compares with the temptation Jesus rejected in Matthew 4. Accepting that bargain, he argues, weakened both Christian witness and American democracy. What does democracy need from Christianity? Rauch connects three teachings of Jesus with three requirements of Madisonian government: Do not be ruled by fear. Citizens must be able to lose elections without believing the country has ended. Recognize every person’s equal dignity. Political opponents remain civic equals with the same rights. Forgive rather than destroy your enemies. Winning cannot become permission to eliminate the opposition.Eric and Jonathan also discuss signs of Christian renewal, civic theology, Latter-day Saint peacemaking, the rise of post-liberalism, and what its critics of liberal democracy would put in its place. The conversation eventually turns to artificial intelligence, parenting, education, books, and human meaning. If AI can summarize our books and write our essays, why undertake the difficult work of thinking? What should we teach children when nobody can confidently predict which jobs will survive? Questions explored Why does a lifelong atheist believe democracy needs Christianity? When does politics begin functioning like religion? What bargain did Donald Trump offer white evangelicals? How do the teachings of Jesus align with James Madison’s democracy? Can Christianity separate itself from MAGA politics? What is post-liberalism, and what would replace liberal democracy? Why might philosophy and religious traditions matter more as AI improves? Why are intellectual and moral humility so difficult and so necessary?About Jonathan Rauch Jonathan Rauch is a senior fellow in Governance Studies at the Brookings Institution, a contributing writer at The Atlantic, and the author of nine books, including Cross Purposes, The Constitution of Knowledge, The Happiness Curve, and Kindly Inquisitors. Episode Links Cross Purposes: Christianity’s Broken Bargain with Democracy: https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300273540/cross-purposes/ Explore Jonathan Rauch’s books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B001HOP3SC Jonathan Rauch at the Brookings Institution: https://www.brookings.edu/people/jonathan-rauch/ Read Jonathan’s work at The Atlantic: https://www.theatlantic.com/author/jonathan-rauch/For more episodes: https://unfoldingthought.com Questions or guest ideas: eric@inboundandagile.com

    Did MAGA Take the Deal Jesus Refused? | Jonathan Rauch

  6. Aug 10 ·  Video

    The Price of Moral Courage: John Boyd, Bud Day & Brute Krulak

    What does moral courage cost when power would rather you stay silent? Investigative journalist and military biographer Robert Coram joins to examine four extraordinary and complicated figures in American military history: fighter pilot and strategist John Boyd; Medal of Honor recipient and Vietnam POW Colonel George “Bud” Day; Marine Lieutenant General Victor “Brute” Krulak; and World War II fighter pilot, double ace, and God Is My Co-Pilot author Robert Lee Scott Jr. Coram explains the pattern that drew him to Boyd, Day, and Krulak: each reached a moral fork where principle threatened promotion, safety, status, or career. Scott became the revealing exception—a study in genuine achievement, heroic legend, and the difficulty of separating memory from fact. The conversation explores Boyd’s influence on air combat, fighter design, military strategy, and the OODA loop; Day’s five years, seven months, and thirteen days as a POW in North Vietnam, the prolonged torture he endured, the resistance he resumed after his body reached its limit, and the burden carried by his wife, Dorie; and Krulak’s warning to President Lyndon B. Johnson about the Vietnam War—an act Coram believes helped cost Krulak a fourth star and the chance to become Commandant of the Marine Corps. Eric and Robert also examine what happens when one of a celebrated pilot’s most dramatic stories cannot be verified. Robert recounts the undercover South Caicos reporting trip that put him inside a drug-smuggling network, the “Book Angel” who helped send him toward Boyd, and the private costs carried by military families. He explains how writing American Patriot changed his understanding of military virtue, patriotism, and his father. Finally, Coram turns his investigative method on himself and asks whether his memoir Gully Dirt was too honest. Questions Answered Why did Robert Coram choose John Boyd, Bud Day, and Brute Krulak—and why was Robert Lee Scott Jr. the exception? How did John Boyd influence air combat, fighter design, military strategy, and the OODA loop? What did Bud Day endure during more than five and a half years as a POW in North Vietnam? What did resistance look like after torture overcame Day’s body? What role did Dorie Day play during his captivity and after he returned home? Why does Coram believe Brute Krulak’s warning to LBJ cost him the Marine Corps Commandancy? Was Robert Lee Scott Jr. an original AVG Flying Tiger? How can a biographer separate documented achievement from heroic legend? How did an undercover reporting trip to South Caicos put Coram inside a smuggling network? How did writing American Patriot change Coram’s understanding of military service and his father? Why did Coram wonder whether Gully Dirt was too honest?Books Discussed Boyd: The Fighter Pilot Who Changed the Art of War American Patriot: The Life and Wars of Colonel Bud Day Brute: The Life of Victor Krulak, U.S. Marine Double Ace: The Life of Robert Lee Scott Jr., Pilot, Hero, and Teller of Tall Tales Gully Dirt InkEpisode Links Robert Coram’s website: https://robertcoram.comRobert Coram’s books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B000AQ322M For more episodes: https://unfoldingthought.com Questions or guest ideas: eric@inboundandagile.com

    The Price of Moral Courage: John Boyd, Bud Day & Brute Krulak

  7. Aug 3 ·  Video

    Replacing People with AI? Or, Re-Placing People with AI?

    In this episode, Eric talks with leadership strategist, military veteran, and author Kari Zeller about one of the biggest misconceptions surrounding artificial intelligence: that AI is primarily a technology problem. Kari argues that the real challenge isn’t learning new AI tools. It’s learning how to lead when the assumptions that have defined work, expertise, and human value are rapidly changing. Drawing from her new book Re-Placed, she introduces the distinction between being replaced by AI and becoming re-placed: intentionally creating a new role for yourself, your team, and your organization inside a changing world. The conversation explores why leadership is becoming less about providing answers and more about creating context, why organizations routinely suppress the intelligence already inside them, how AI changes the role of managers, and why unlocking human judgment may become more valuable than maximizing productivity. Eric and Kari also discuss mobilization, organizational transformation, distributed intelligence, Kodak and Fujifilm, AI strategy, workplace identity, military leadership, intentionality, and why the future belongs to leaders who create new possibilities rather than simply adapt to change. Rather than asking whether AI will replace people, Kari asks a different question: What uniquely human work remains when information, expertise, and analysis become abundant? At its core, this is a conversation about leadership, identity, and how organizations can use AI to amplify human capability rather than diminish it. Questions Answered Will AI replace managers and leaders? What does it mean to be “re-placed” instead of replaced? Why is leadership becoming more important because of AI? What is human mobilization? Why do organizations suppress human intelligence? What is distributed intelligence inside an organization? How should leaders think differently about AI adoption? What can humans do that AI cannot? Why did Kodak fail while Fujifilm adapted? How do leaders create organizational transformation instead of simple adaptation? Why is intentionality becoming a competitive advantage? How should executives balance artificial intelligence with human judgment?Episode Links Kari’s website: https://karizeller.com/ Kari’s company TGN Consulting: https://tgn-consulting.com/ Re-Placed: Answering the Call of Leadership in the Age of AI: https://www.amazon.com/Re-Placed-Answering-Call-Leadership-Age/dp/1639081941 Kari’s previous appearance on The Unfolding Thought Podcast: https://unfoldingthought.com/lindsay-mcgregor-blame-the-system-not-the-person/For more episodes: https://unfoldingthought.com Questions or guest ideas: eric@inboundandagile.com

    Replacing People with AI? Or, Re-Placing People with AI?

  8. Jul 27 ·  Video

    Why Philosophy Will Matter More Than AI

    In this episode, Eric talks with MIT researcher, innovation expert, and author Michael Schrage about why artificial intelligence is forcing leaders to rethink much more than technology. Michael argues that AI is exposing fundamental questions about purpose, value creation, critical thinking, collaboration, and what organizations are actually trying to optimize. As AI becomes increasingly capable, technical skill alone becomes less differentiating. The real advantage shifts toward asking better questions, making better judgments, and understanding the tradeoffs behind every decision. The conversation explores why experimentation is replacing traditional R&D, why collaboration creates better outcomes than isolated AI use, how promptathons develop stronger thinking, and why organizations obsessed with efficiency may be missing AI’s greatest opportunity. Eric and Michael also discuss innovation economics, creative destruction, recommendation engines, philosophy, critical thinking, human capital, experimentation, management, education, prompt engineering, organizational strategy, and the future of work. One of Michael’s central arguments is simple: Software ate the world. AI is eating software. Philosophy will increasingly shape AI. At its core, this episode is about becoming a better thinker in a world where intelligence is becoming abundant but judgment remains scarce. Questions Answered Why does Michael Schrage say philosophy “eats” AI? Why are so many companies approaching AI incorrectly? How should leaders think about AI beyond automation? What is the difference between efficiency and value creation? Why is experimentation replacing traditional R&D? What are promptathons, and why do they work? How does AI change collaboration? What makes organizations innovative? Why will critical thinking become more valuable in the AI era? How should businesses balance optimization versus exploration? What should young people study as AI advances? How can AI help people become more valuable rather than simply more productive?Episode Links Michael’s MIT Sloan Management Review article, Philosophy Eats AI: https://sloanreview.mit.edu/article/philosophy-eats-ai/ Michael Schrage’s books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Michael-Schrage/author/B001KIV9TWFor more episodes: https://unfoldingthought.com Questions or guest ideas: eric@inboundandagile.com

    Why Philosophy Will Matter More Than AI
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The Unfolding Thought Podcast explores how people think—and how that thinking shapes what we do next. Host Eric Pratum talks with authors, researchers, executives, creators, and unconventional thinkers about leadership, work, technology, strategy, culture, psychology, and human behavior. Each conversation goes past obvious answers to uncover the assumptions, incentives, systems, narratives, and patterns shaping our choices. The goal is not debate or performance. It is a reflective, practical conversation that produces insight listeners can use. New episodes every week. Watch, listen, and browse every episode at https://unfoldingthought.com. The Unfolding Thought Podcast is produced by Inbound & Agile, which provides paid media, analytics, conversion tracking, CRM integration, and technical marketing execution for internal marketing teams.

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