Credit Exchange with Lisa Lee

Credit Exchange with Lisa Lee. Explore the latest trends in global credit markets with the biggest movers and shapers on Wall Street and the City, hosted by financial reporting veteran Lisa Lee.

  1. 1d ago

    Goodwater Capital’s co-founder says valuation is a critical factor for venture capitalists

    “Right now everything seems very elevated in the private market. So all the more, ‘stock picking’ as venture capitalists is really important,” says Eric Kim, co-founder of Goodwater Capital, on the latest episode of Credit Exchange with Lisa Lee. Goodwater is a global venture capital firm that counts no fewer than 17 ‘unicorns’ amongst its investment successes, including such storied names as TikTok (via musical.ly), Spotify, Monzo and Kakao. M&A is hot right now, says Kim. Incumbent companies with large market caps and strong cash positions are looking to acquire to have that next AI story and are getting rewarded by the Street. “That over time... being able to use your war chest if you built out as a Fortune 500 company is well worth it,” says Kim on purchasing AI companies and teams. “I think there's a lot of knocking on the doors right now.” It’s an exciting moment to be investing in startup since AI applications are just getting started. “Software is going to be completely rewritten right now, it's like a blank slate, and that is exciting on all levels,” says Kim. “We can connect the dots to something that is way bigger than we ever imagined before. He contends that venture capital involves an element of suspending disbelief. “[For] our team, we emphasise you really need to first suspend disbelief, dream the dream – and then pressure-test from there to see, is this plausible or not?” “How do they want to build a product? We have to accept that it won’t be perfect. And the resilience that they have as entrepreneurs is even more so,” he says. “So do they have a data model? Are they creating a product that will be trusted over time? And is this a team that we see, long-term, is going to build a generational company? Generally, if you see those three things, we’re willing to suspend disbelief. We have to do that within venture capital.” The landscape for venture capital has shifted in an important way, with the market becoming more sophisticated in providing liquidity solutions and become more institutionalised. “It’s an ‘and’ now. It used to be M&A, IPO or nothing. But now... there’s also this institutionalisation of the venture capital asset class. I think it’s healthy, actually, because you have more players, you have more different liquidity solutions, [and] you have big secondary funds coming in market as well. And that offers the ability for both liquidity in the midterm, but outsize outcomes in the long-term as well.” Kim also discusses regulation and ethical issues surrounding AI, Goodwater’s notable investment successes, and current equity market volatility.

  2. Sep 25

    Conning NA CIO says Fed should show patience in inflation battle

    The US Federal Reserve should not be tempted to overreact as it seeks to tackle rising inflation, says Cindy Beaulieu, CIO of Conning North America, on the latest episode of Credit Exchange with Lisa Lee. A combination of rising energy prices and the lingering after-effects of the Trump administration’s tariffs agenda mean inflation continues to be a key issue for the economy. For Beaulieu, Fed Chair Kevin Warsh’s recent speech at Jackson Hole highlighted a focus on rising core personal consumption expenditures (PCE) remaining at an elevated level, and the need to address it as a priority. However, she believes the Fed should tackle the issue cautiously. “Our thought is there’s a lot of noise [in the data], so be careful,” she says. “Don’t overreact, because overreaction could stifle the economy in a way of unintended consequences and actually cause a recession, which is certainly not what they want to do. “Being patient would really put them (the Fed) in a much better position.” She suggests that secular changes in the nature of the economy, such as an ageing population, deglobalisation, and a much riskier global geopolitical environment, mean that the Fed’s long-held 2% inflation target may no longer be achievable. While Beaulieu believes that the transformative potential of AI across the economy is very real, she notes that “the last thing” you want to have is a portfolio that is overly-concentrated on the AI trade. “I think some of the things that are really important... is first understanding exactly who the borrower is, where they sit, and what type of legal protections you have should things go in the wrong direction,” she says. “There’s been a lot of issuance in the structured markets, and not every one of those deals is created equal. Some of those leases are much more favourable for the companies that are going to occupy the data centre, than they are for the lenders to that particular facility. So you have to be very, very careful as you are pursuing this trade.” For Conning, an asset manager focused on the insurance industry with over USD 190bn in AUM, a key focus of the credit cycle since COVID has been ensuring their portfolios are positioned neutral to the duration they need to be for the liabilities of their various insurance clients. “We’ve invested... across the investment-grade areas of the market, but we have been a little bit less focused on the below-investment-grade parts of the market now for a couple of years,” Beaulieu says. “We have given up a little bit of return in that, but we are also about protecting principal, and so we’re willing to give up a little bit of that incremental return.” She says Conning’s focus, especially for the last 18 months, has been on the structured areas of the fixed income market. That has included investments in agency and non-agency mortgages, esoteric asset-backed securities, high-quality CLOs, and private placements. She also discusses the shifting outlook for the upcoming US mid-term elections, recent regulatory developments in the insurance sector, and dynamics in the labour market.

  3. Aug 14

    Neuberger’s CIO says to focus on real interest rates

    The rise in real yields because of government deficit spending, alongside ongoing huge demands for AI investment, are underpinning the rise in interest rates, says Ashok Bhatia, chief investment officer at Neuberger, an investment management firm with more than $600 billion in AUM. Speaking with Lisa Lee on the latest episode of Credit Exchange, Bhatia says that real interest rates are the key to understanding the current bond market landscape. “The bond market’s really relaxed about intermediate term, 5-to-10-year inflation rates. It is just telling you there is not a problem,” he says. “[But] the big change that happened in the bond market is real interest rates. If the 10 -year today is about 4.7%, the market tells you inflation will be about 2.2%. That's a 2.5% real yield. So that’s up from basically zero. [Historically] it’s probably a little bit on the cheap side.” But he notes that if the real interest rate climbs to 3% or above, that’s when the economy can be in strife. “At that point, if an economy is growing at 2-2.5%, and you think about the real cost of capital at 4%, you’re upside-down on that,” he says. “And it’s often when financial accidents and problems happen.” Bhatia contends that for the bond market, it is suddenly starting to feel that a horizon which had previously felt distant, is now “on a horizon that we need to invest on.” For Bhatia, who is also Neuberger’s global head of fixed income, aggressive rate hiking by the Fed at this point would represent “a policy error”, although a single rate rise would not be the end of the world. “But if the Fed started taking the policy rate up 100 basis points... the market would conclude that is really not necessary. It would also probably start putting real interest rates into more of a danger zone [and] would probably have some repercussions for the dollar.” Bhatia also discusses dangers on the horizon in the bond market, the ongoing impact of the Iran war, and the distinctive characteristics of working for an employee-owned firm.

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Credit Exchange with Lisa Lee. Explore the latest trends in global credit markets with the biggest movers and shapers on Wall Street and the City, hosted by financial reporting veteran Lisa Lee.

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