The Napa Legal Podcast

Napa Legal Institute

Listen to Napa Legal's Senior Counsel and Director of Content Frank DeVito discuss key legal and policy updates relevant to faith-based nonprofits with Marketing and Content Manager Kyle Nazareth each week.

  1. Sep 1

    Dobbs Said No Right to Abortion. This Judge Made One.

    Welcome to the Napa Legal Podcast, where we discuss religious liberty from the perspective of faith-based nonprofits. In this week's episode, Frank DeVito and Kyle Nazareth discuss an Idaho district court finding a narrow but fundamental Fourteenth Amendment right to abortion three years after Dobbs, Becket's new lawsuit against SUNY Broome Community College on behalf of InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, and a Philadelphia school "quiet room" that allegedly became a Muslim prayer space where non-Muslim students were disciplined for entering. In this episode, we discuss: [2:18] Seyb v. Members of the Idaho Board of Medicine, now before the Ninth Circuit. Frank traces how the court gets there, from nineteenth-century mens rea requirements and life-of-the-mother exceptions to the claim that these show a fundamental limit on legislative power, and argues the leap is the whole error: a legislature declining to criminalize something is not a court recognizing a right it cannot touch. [20:06] Becket sues SUNY Broome Community College after it denied recognition to an InterVarsity chapter over the chapter's requirement that student leaders share its Christian beliefs. Kyle works through the fourteen counts, including church autonomy and entanglement, the free exercise claims aimed at strict scrutiny, Tandon's most-favored-nation rule, and Fulton's holding that mere discretion defeats general applicability. [35:35] Heister v. School District of Philadelphia, where a district judge partially denied the school district's motion to dismiss on August 21. Frank uses the case to raise a cultural asymmetry while cautioning against judgment when the facts are this contested, and Kyle asks whether the flag is a religious symbol at all. For more about Napa Legal and our work, visit our website here: https://www.napalegalinstitute.org/ For more of the Napa Legal Podcast, visit our site here: https://www.napalegalinstitute.org/the-napa-legal-podcast The Napa Legal Podcast, September 1, 2026 #freedomofreligion #religiousliberty #freeexercise

  2. Aug 24

    Catholic City Loses Its Appeal. Wiccan Inmate Wins.

    Welcome to the Napa Legal Podcast, where we discuss religious liberty from the perspective of faith-based nonprofits. In this week's episode, Frank DeVito and Kyle Nazareth discuss Texas adding scripture to its K–12 public school reading list, the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court blocking statues of St. Michael and St. Florian from a Quincy public safety building, and a divided Ninth Circuit reviving a Wiccan inmate's claim over confiscated ritual items. In this episode, we discuss: [1:09] Texas adds selections from scripture to its K–12 reading list alongside the classic literature, and Frank argues the law sits comfortably inside the Establishment Clause — that Mahmoud v. Taylor did not forbid assigning texts at all but turned on parental notice and the normative character of the material, that Abington v. Schempp expressly preserved the Bible's literary and historic value, and that the first public schools went considerably further than anything Texas is now attempting. [11:33] The Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court unanimously upholds an injunction against two ten-foot bronzes commissioned for Quincy's public safety building, applying a Lemon-derived state framework years after Kennedy v. Bremerton discarded it, and reaching the strange conclusion that the statues fail largely because they are new — turning American Legion, our most monument-friendly precedent, against them. [26:05] A divided Ninth Circuit panel revives a Wiccan inmate's First Amendment and RLUIPA claims over a confiscated altar cloth and medallion the dissent notes cost twelve dollars each, which Frank uses to raise the question sitting underneath the case: whether courts can coherently protect the free exercise of religion without a workable definition of religion. Kyle answers from natural theology and the founders' laws of nature and of nature's God. Chapter markers 0:00 Intro 1:09 Texas adds scripture to the K–12 curriculum 1:39 Jonah, Job, and the Sermon on the Mount 2:10 The Ten Commandments law and Nathan v. Alamo Heights 2:56 Does Mahmoud v. Taylor apply? 3:26 Why the Mahmoud texts were different 4:15 Abington School District v. Schempp 4:59 The Bible's literary and historic qualities 6:14 The first public schools were explicitly Protestant 7:23 Neutral proceduralism vs. substantive goods 8:20 Not all ideas are equal 10:06 Kyle: what is education actually for? 11:33 Massachusetts: FitzMorris v. City of Quincy 12:31 Two bronzes, fifteen plaintiffs, three organizations 13:49 The SJC rules on August 20 14:18 Article 3 and Michael McConnell's brief 15:17 A state court applies Lemon after Kennedy 15:46 Colo v. Treasurer and Receiver General 17:42 Federal protection is a floor, not a ceiling 18:12 The free exercise ceiling and Masterpiece Cakeshop 19:09 The absurdity of the Lemon test 19:39 Becket's secular purpose argument 21:07 American Legion and the Bladensburg Cross 22:03 Too new to protect 23:35 Can a state court use an overruled federal test? 24:29 Picking and choosing religious symbols 26:05 Goff v. Rode in the Ninth Circuit 27:29 A 2–1 reversal of summary judgment 29:08 The dissent and the $12 replacement 30:38 Resolved on the wrong element 32:12 What is a religion? 32:49 Employment Division v. Smith 34:07 Madison and "the duty we owe our Creator" 35:25 Where Wicca would fall 36:28 Kyle: natural theology and the unmoved mover 37:56 Aquinas, Blackstone, and the American founding 39:41 Natural law theorists and originalists agree 40:39 "If anything's a religion, then nothing's a religion" For more about Napa Legal and our work, visit our website here: https://www.napalegalinstitute.org/ For more of the Napa Legal Podcast, visit our site here: https://www.napalegalinstitute.org/the-napa-legal-podcast The Napa Legal Podcast, August 25, 2026 #freedomofreligion #religiousliberty #establishmentclause

  3. Aug 18

    A Catholic Governor Just Legalized Abortion Up to Birth

    Welcome to the Napa Legal Podcast, where we discuss religious liberty from the perspective of faith-based nonprofits. In this week's episode, Frank DeVito and Kyle Nazareth discuss the Justice Department and an Orthodox synagogue suing Montgomery County, Maryland over its ban on carrying firearms near houses of worship, a new state-law challenge to Texas's Ten Commandments statute after the Establishment Clause arguments failed, and the Massachusetts law removing nearly every remaining limit on late-term abortion. In this episode, we discuss: [1:07] Montgomery County bars firearms in or within 100 yards of a place of public assembly, including every house of worship in the county, and now faces parallel suits from the Justice Department on Second Amendment grounds and from an Orthodox synagogue arguing the ordinance is neither neutral nor generally applicable and burdens a religious obligation to provide for its own security. [12:49] Three Houston-area mothers abandon the Establishment Clause theory that lost in the Fifth Circuit and challenge SB 10 under the Texas Religious Freedom Restoration Act and the state's new Parental Rights Amendment, raising the question of whether a poster a child passively sees can count as religious coercion at all. [26:08] Massachusetts eliminates its four-part framework governing abortion at or after 24 weeks, and Frank explains why the abortion pill rather than late-term surgical abortion is the real battlefield, while Kyle walks through Canon 915 and the excommunication question now being raised about a governor who calls herself Catholic. Chapter markers 0:00 Intro 1:07 Montgomery County's 100-yard gun ban 2:44 Two lawsuits: DOJ and an Orthodox synagogue 3:49 Bruen and the history and tradition test 5:59 The colonies that required men to bring guns to church 6:55 Not neutral, not generally applicable 8:30 What is the compelling interest, exactly? 10:58 Does disarming worshipers make churches safer? 12:49 Texas: Roth v. State of Texas 13:45 Judge Duncan's opinion in Nathan v. Alamo Heights 14:17 Six hallmarks of a founding-era establishment 15:04 Why Mahmoud v. Taylor does not apply 16:12 Three mothers and a new theory of the case 16:40 Texas RFRA and the Parental Rights Amendment 17:50 Lee v. Weisman and psychological coercion 19:22 The offended observer problem 20:47 What Dignitatis Humanae actually says about coercion 21:50 The TRO denial and the hearing set for today 23:23 Is a poster a substantial burden? 24:08 The parental rights argument 26:08 Massachusetts signs H.5595 into law 27:49 The bishops respond 28:55 Why the moderate position on abortion is illogical 30:17 The abortion pill is the real battlefield 31:51 Abolitionist in theory, incrementalist in reality 34:26 Fourteenth Amendment personhood and the risk of backlash 36:42 Kansas, Ohio, and what the referenda showed 37:41 Spiritual recourse and the 2002 Doctrinal Note 38:38 Canon 915 and the excommunication question 39:51 Why excommunication is pastoral, not political For more about Napa Legal and our work, visit our website here: https://www.napalegalinstitute.org/ For more of the Napa Legal Podcast, visit our site here: https://www.napalegalinstitute.org/the-napa-legal-podcast The Napa Legal Podcast, August 18, 2026 #freedomofreligion #religiousliberty #secondamendment

  4. Aug 11

    Obscenity Isn't Free Speech: Florida's Child Protection Law Upheld

    Welcome to the Napa Legal Podcast, where we discuss religious liberty from the perspective of faith-based nonprofits. In this week's episode, Frank DeVito and Kyle Nazareth discuss Michigan's full-scale retreat from its ban on talk therapy for children with gender dysphoria, the Eleventh Circuit's en banc ruling upholding Florida's Protection of Children Act, and a second Oklahoma charter school case that may finish what St. Isidore started. In this episode, we discuss: [1:44] Michigan agrees to a stipulated permanent injunction ending enforcement of HB 4616 against licensed counselors engaged in talk therapy, closing out a suit brought by a Catholic therapist and several branches of Catholic Charities after the Supreme Court decided Chiles v. Salazar. [12:42] The Eleventh Circuit, sitting en banc, upholds Florida's Protection of Children Act, holding that obscenity sits outside the First Amendment entirely and that keeping minors out of obscene adult live performances is subject to rational basis review rather than strict scrutiny. [24:42] A Jewish school foundation seeks charter status in Oklahoma on the same argument St. Isidore made, and Frank explains why Carson v. Makin points in one direction while the strings attached to state funding remain the harder question. Chapter markers 0:00 Intro 1:44 Michigan's talk therapy ban 2:30 The Catholic therapist who challenged it 4:14 The stipulated permanent injunction 5:16 Does a stipulation create precedent? 6:13 Why you should never lay down and give up 8:18 What if a state banned the other kind of therapy? 11:09 Do we trust this ruling class with that power? 12:42 The Eleventh Circuit upholds Florida's law 13:59 A Drag Queen Christmas in Pensacola 15:18 Hamburger Mary's facial challenge 16:55 Obscenity is outside the First Amendment 17:44 Rational basis, not strict scrutiny 18:49 Free speech in America was never unlimited 20:22 Philip Hamburger on natural rights and natural law 22:26 Originalism gets you to the same place 24:42 Oklahoma: St. Isidore round two 26:24 Why Oklahoma's charter schools are private 27:22 Carson v. Makin and generally available funding 28:48 Why St. Isidore ended 4–4 31:20 The strings attached to state money 32:25 St. Mary Catholic Parish v. Roy For more about Napa Legal and our work, visit our website here: https://www.napalegalinstitute.org/For more of the Napa Legal Podcast, visit our site here: https://www.napalegalinstitute.org/the-napa-legal-podcastThe Napa Legal Podcast, August 11, 2026 #freedomofreligion #religiousliberty #freespeech

  5. Aug 4

    A Religious Exemption From AI?

    Welcome to the Napa Legal Podcast, where we discuss religious liberty from the perspective of faith-based nonprofits. In this week's episode, Frank DeVito and Kyle Nazareth discuss the Catholic lawsuit against New York's new physician assisted death mandate, the Ninth Circuit's unanimous ruling for a Kaiser Permanente employee fired over a religious vaccine exemption, and the first known workplace religious accommodation excusing an employee from using AI. In this episode, we discuss: [1:20] Becket sues New York over the Medical Aid in Dying Act on behalf of four orders of religious sisters and the Diocese of Rockville Centre, challenging a law that requires objecting providers to counsel patients on assisted suicide, screen them for eligibility, and refer them out. [18:11] The Ninth Circuit unanimously revives Mimi Weiss's Title VII claims against Kaiser, holding that notice of a religious conflict and sincerity of belief are separate questions, and that employers do not get to decide the second one. [30:24] A Unitarian Universalist software engineer wins a religious exemption from her employer's AI mandate, and Kyle explains why Magnifica Humanitas does not say what the coverage claims it says. Chapter markers 0:00 Intro 1:20 New York's assisted suicide mandate 3:58 Doctors must list the wrong cause of death 5:06 Carmelite Sisters v. James 7:25 Humanism without Christianity 11:12 The federal law arguments 13:04 Church autonomy and free exercise 16:07 The July 30 consent order 16:49 The lesson from Canada 18:11 Weiss v. The Permanente Medical Group 20:30 Notice or sincerity? 22:44 The Ninth Circuit rules for Weiss 26:42 How to write an exemption letter 30:24 A religious exemption from AI 32:02 What the AI encyclical actually says For more about Napa Legal and our work, visit our website here: https://www.napalegalinstitute.org/ For more of the Napa Legal Podcast, visit our site here: https://www.napalegalinstitute.org/the-napa-legal-podcast The Napa Legal Podcast, August 4, 2026 #freedomofreligion #religiousliberty

  6. Jul 29

    A Permit to Pray in Your Own Home? John Bursch on the Case SCOTUS Just Took

    Welcome to the Napa Legal Podcast, where we discuss religious liberty from the perspective of faith-based nonprofits. In this special episode, Napa Legal's Senior Counsel Frank DeVito is joined by John Bursch, Senior Counsel and Vice President of Appellate Advocacy at Alliance Defending Freedom, former Solicitor General of Michigan, and a Napa Legal Good Counselor Project Fellow. John returns as the podcast's first repeat guest for a discussion of two fights that will shape what churches and religious nonprofits are free to say and free to do. First, the litigation over the Johnson Amendment. John explains what pastors and priests can already say from the pulpit, why the government's theory rests on the Supreme Court's decision in Catholic Charities Bureau, and what happens next. Second, Grand v. City of University Heights, which the Supreme Court agreed to hear on June 30. John explains the procedural question the justices will decide in December and why it matters for every American whose religious exercise runs into a zoning code.In this episode, we discuss: 0:00 Introduction 0:53 John Bursch's background and his work at Alliance Defending Freedom 1:55 What is the Johnson Amendment and why it matters 2:56 The 1950s origins of the Johnson Amendment 3:26 Is 501(c)(3) status a government benefit or a recognition? 4:27 Why no one has successfully challenged the Johnson Amendment until now 5:27 Obergefell, Verrilli, and the coming fight over tax exemption 6:30 The NRB case: plaintiffs, posture, and a change in administrations 7:30 The stipulated judgment and the district court's rejection 9:31 What the settlement signals to churches right now 10:01 What a priest can actually say from the pulpit 11:32 Two extremes: churches that go all in and churches that self-censor 12:34 The government's theory: unequal burdens on different denominations 13:34 The Catholic Charities Bureau problem 14:36 Applying Catholic Charities to the next generation of cases 15:09 The Anti-Injunction Act and the court's sua sponte dismissal 16:41 Why this is a speech case, not a tax case 17:42 Is the Anti-Injunction Act jurisdictional or waivable? 18:44 What's teed up for the Fifth Circuit and when to expect a decision 20:16 Why "boring" procedural doctrine decides religious liberty cases 21:16 Grand v. City of University Heights: a permit to pray at home 22:46 The cease-and-desist and the call with the mayor 23:16 The zoning hearing and the trap inside the permit 24:47 A pro se cert petition that got the Supreme Court's attention 27:20 Surveillance, spying neighbors, and a city that stopped picking up his trash 28:21 Williamson County, exhaustion, and Section 1983 29:53 What's next in the case |30:23 Conclusion For more about Napa Legal and our work, visit our website here: https://www.napalegalinstitute.org/ For more of the Napa Legal Podcast, visit our site here: https://www.napalegalinstitute.org/the-napa-legal-podcast

  7. Jul 21

    Too Religious for Connecticut's Capitol? The Nativity Ban Explained

    Welcome to the Napa Legal Podcast, where we discuss religious liberty from the perspective of faith-based nonprofits. In this week's episode, Frank DeVito and Kyle Nazareth discuss Connecticut banning a Nativity display in the capitol building, the draft of the report released by the White House Religious Liberty Commission, and the continued legal battles of the Little Sisters of the Poor against the contraceptive mandate. In this episode, we discuss: [1:27] After Connecticut's Joint Committee on Legislative Management denied the Family Institute of Connecticut permission to place a small Nativity in the state Capitol under a policy that allows private displays unless they are "religious in nature," First Liberty Institute and the law firm Jones Day sent a demand letter arguing the exclusion is viewpoint discrimination under the Free Speech Clause and that the Establishment Clause — with Lemon v. Kurtzman's endorsement test abrogated by Kennedy v. Bremerton — plainly permits the display. [13:16] The White House Religious Liberty Commission, created by President Trump's executive order and built on seven hearings, released a 224-page draft report surveying the state of religious freedom in America — from religion's role as an indispensable support for a free society to the history of the First Amendment from colonial establishments through the twentieth-century incorporation of the Establishment Clause against the states — and Kyle unpacks its twelve recommendations, including repealing the Johnson Amendment, restoring benefits for service members discharged over religious objections to the COVID-19 vaccine, and directing the DOJ to clarify the proper understanding of the Establishment Clause. [29:53] The Little Sisters of the Poor are back before the Third Circuit — represented by Becket's Mark Rienzi and the firm Clement & Murphy, with oral argument heard July 7 — challenging a district court ruling that found the religious exemption to the Affordable Care Act's contraceptive mandate arbitrary and capricious, and arguing that even if that were so, striking the exemption would only leave the mandate itself violating RFRA by substantially burdening the Sisters' religious exercise, more than a decade and three Supreme Court victories into Pennsylvania and New Jersey's effort to strip away their protection. For more about Napa Legal and our work, visit our website here: https://www.napalegalinstitute.org/ For more of the Napa Legal Podcast, visit our site here: https://www.napalegalinstitute.org/the-napa-legal-podcast The Napa Legal Podcast, July 21, 2026 #freedomofreligion #religiousliberty

  8. Jul 16

    Pay Your Taxes to a Christian School Instead? The New $1,700 Tax Credit | Guest Corrinne Vidales

    Welcome to the Napa Legal Podcast, where we discuss religious liberty from the perspective of faith-based nonprofits.In this guest episode, Napa Legal's Senior Counsel Frank DeVito is joined by Corrinne Vidales, Legal Counsel at the Ohio Christian Education Network and an alumna of Napa Legal's Good Counselor Project. Join them for a discussion of scholarship granting organizations (SGOs) and the new federal Education Freedom Tax Credit created by the One Big Beautiful Bill. With Treasury rules expected this fall, this program allows taxpayers to redirect up to $1,700 of their federal taxes to scholarship organizations, with major implications for Christian schools, faith-based nonprofits, and the families they serve.In this episode, we discuss:0:00 Introduction1:43 Corrinne's background and her work at the Ohio Christian Education Network3:37 What is a scholarship granting organization?4:51 How Ohio's dollar-for-dollar SGO tax credit works7:09 How scholarship money flows from donors to families9:37 Which states currently have SGO programs10:43 The federal Education Freedom Tax Credit and how it will work11:27 State opt-in: what happens if a governor refuses?14:05 Who's eligible for federal scholarships?15:19 How existing SGOs can qualify for the federal program16:21 Credit amounts, rollover, and stacking state and federal donations20:03 The greatest evangelism opportunity of our lifetime? What this means for the future of Christian education21:23 Launching new schools and taking the SGO model national23:53 ConclusionNapa Legal's introductory resource on SGOs, written by Corrinne, is available at https://www.napalegalinstitute.org/For more about Napa Legal and our work, visit our website here:https://www.napalegalinstitute.org/For more of the Napa Legal Podcast, visit our site here:https://www.napalegalinstitute.org/the-napa-legal-podcast

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Listen to Napa Legal's Senior Counsel and Director of Content Frank DeVito discuss key legal and policy updates relevant to faith-based nonprofits with Marketing and Content Manager Kyle Nazareth each week.

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