We've Got To Talk

Nicole Fonarow and Jolene Conway
  • 4.8 (26)
  • Personal Journals
  • Weekly

Our story begins in the halls of the University of Iowa, go Hawks! It was there that two seemingly different paths intersected and a friendship blossomed. Despite our different upbringings—Jolene in little Pleasantville, Iowa, and me, Nicole, just across the Golden Gate Bridge in the bustling Bay Area—we became fast friends. And here we are, almost 40 years later, living in a world that often seems intent on drawing lines in the sand and choosing sides. So why "We've Got To Talk"? Because we truly believe that in this deeply divided society, the power of conversation can unite us. Our goal isn't to change each other's opinions, but to listen with curiosity, kindness, and empathy. And yes, to have a good time while doing it! We invite you to join us on this journey and bring your friends along. We might not have all the answers or any of them—but we promise honesty, empathy, and a lot of heart. We hope our conversations give you a fresh outlook or at least entertain you as you go about your day.

  1. 3d ago

    Midterm Predictions: Who Deserves Your Vote

    The USA 2026 Midterms are coming, and it feels like the whole country is being held hostage by political ads. They are everywhere, and a lot of them aren’t designed to inform you; they’re designed to polarize you. Jolene and I talk about how the media cycle shapes your nervous system, why constant outrage makes us less informed, and how both parties use fear to rally their base and keep voters reactive. We also get into polling, because at this point it can feel like a daily anxiety machine. “The race is tightening.” “Momentum is shifting.” But who actually answers polls anymore, and what do small sample sizes really tell us in a country this big? We unpack why midterm election polls often create more noise than clarity, and how they can push people into gloating, spiralling, or checking out before voting even starts. On a personal level, we talk about the very real frustration of choosing between candidates you don’t love. In New York’s 10th Congressional District, I’ve had that “lesser of two evils” feeling more than once, and Jolene’s point is simple: this isn’t just a liberal problem or a conservative problem. It’s a system problem, and the system rarely rewards candidates trying to serve the middle during US elections. We share how we’re shifting from fear to facts with grounded sources like Gabe Fleisher’s Wake Up to Politics https://www.youtube.com/@wakeuptopolitics , and why it still matters to vote even if you have to hold your nose. We also talk about tools like Bridgegrades.org , following the money, and slowing down on purpose so you can make a clear-headed choice instead of getting played by the outrage machine. CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 Introduction 01:41 Why Polls Feel Useless 07:52 Are Any Races Competitive 10:29 Predictions House vs Senate 10:55 Attack Ads Get Ugly 12:40 Money Flooding Elections 16:15 Voting Early and Ballot Confusion 17:39 Judges and Local Races Matter 20:04 Tools for Smarter Voting 24:43 Big States To Watch 25:12 Cities Poverty And DSA 29:31 Minnesota Senate Spotlight 30:32 Polls Margin Of Error 32:08 Election Night Survival Tips RESOURCES MENTIONED Gabe Fleisher's Substack Wake Up to Politics: https://open.substack.com/pub/wakeuptopolitics/p/everyone-thinks-theyre-going-to-win?r=n7so4&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email Gabe Fleisher’s YouTube Wake up to Politics: https://www.youtube.com/@wakeuptopolitics We Made This Political Podcast: https://wemadethispolitical.substack.com/p/ep-68-gabe-fleisher-on-saving-political Isaac Saul:The Dark Side Behind Fear Based Political Ads https://youtu.be/vbMCeI19PPE?si=vaIQimN8HPU-7zJ7 Tangle: https://www.instagram.com/p/Deu29OvDw1m/?img_index=3 Bridge Grades: https://www.bridgegrades.org/ Brad Porteus: https://youtu.be/g4kH4AFXqNs?si=7NtBFT4VRICC7SmZ Marc Goldwein: https://youtu.be/PH8naCqamcE?si=HV05zuJ7-4G_B_wm Watch Midterms Live here: https://www.youtube.com/@MoNews City Cast Salt Lake City podcast: https://saltlake.citycast.fm/ LINKS: Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

    Midterm Predictions: Who Deserves Your Vote

  2. Oct 21

    New Pluralists Is Betting $40 Million that Americans Can Still Get Along | Liz Vogel

    “Underneath every complaint is a hope.” That line from Liz Vogel stopped Jolene and I in our tracks, because once you hear it, you see it everywhere. The angry post, the rant at the school meeting, the neighbor who won’t stop talking about how everything’s gone downhill often isn’t just complaining. It’s someone asking, in the only way they know how, to be seen, to be heard, and to feel like someone actually cares. We sat down with Liz Vogel, Executive Director of New Pluralists, to talk about bridging divides in a politically divided America without trying to change each other’s minds. Liz is also training as a death doula, and she explains why that work connects so naturally to pluralism, because at the end of life, what people want most is to be understood on their own terms. That same need sits underneath so much of our conflict right now. Liz breaks down what New Pluralists actually does: it’s a funder collaborative investing in local organizations across the US that are doing the real work of building cooperation, reducing isolation, and helping communities stay in relationship even when they disagree. This is about depolarization, social cohesion, and rebuilding trust, not creating a country where everyone thinks the same or forcing a “mushy middle” where convictions don’t matter. We talk about pluralism as a practical way to live together in a diverse society while still solving problems together. The goal isn’t to win arguments or convert people; it’s to humanize each other again and stop treating the person across from you like a symbol. CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 Introduction 03:24 What New Pluralists Does 05:24 How Funding Works 09:26 Cross Partisan Grantees 16:27 Defining Pluralism 23:48 Dehumanization And Distrust 27:10 Death Doula Lens 36:15 Grief And Rituals 41:29 From Grief To Grievance 44:19 New Pluralists Mission 49:43 Inside The Grant Process 55:19 Pluralism And Hope Practice RESOURCES MENTIONED New Pluralists Website: https://newpluralists.org/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/newpluralists/posts/?feedView=all LinkedIn Liz: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lizvogel23/ Liz's Good for the Soul: https://goodreads.com/book/show/43708884.The_Boy__the_Mole__the_Fox_and_the_Horse LINKS: Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

    New Pluralists Is Betting $40 Million that Americans Can Still Get Along | Liz Vogel

  3. Oct 14

    We Spend More on Interest Than Defense: We’re In A Debt Crisis | Marc Goldwein

    Jolene and I have been trying to work out whether the US is actually in a financial emergency, or whether we’re just stuck in the usual loop of scary headlines, charts, and people yelling on cable news. Because after a while you either spiral or you go numb, and neither one helps you understand what’s real. So we spoke to economist Marc Goldwein, and instead of drama, he gave us the calm, numbers-based version, which was somehow more unsettling. Marc’s view is blunt: the US is in the worst financial shape it’s ever been in, at least in the ways that matter for what comes next. He points to 10-year and 30-year Treasury yields being the highest since the early 2000s, which matters because higher interest rates plus massive national debt means the cost of servicing that debt starts eating everything else. It’s like carrying a credit card balance you can’t pay down, then watching the interest rate jump while you try to keep living your life as normal. The part that really lands is this: US interest payments now exceed national defense spending. That’s not a talking point, it’s a budget reality, and it changes what the government can afford to do. Marc also explains that while the national debt is close to its World War II level, the interest burden is worse, with interest as a share of the economy roughly doubling. So even if the debt number feels historically familiar, the pressure it creates today is not. Then we get to the obvious question: if it’s this bad, why aren’t we fixing it? Marc’s answer is basically incentives. Politicians get rewarded for cutting taxes and handing out benefits, and punished for asking people to pay more or accept less. Add in the time-horizon problem, where leaders focus on the next election instead of the next decade, and you get a system that keeps kicking the can until it turns into a wrecking ball. The takeaway is uncomfortable but simple: this isn’t only a politician problem, it’s also a voter problem, and if we don’t face it now, we’re handing future generations a country where more and more money goes to interest and less goes to anything that actually makes life better. CHAPTER MARKERS:00:00 Introduction 03:09 Why Debt Keeps Rising 04:17 Social Security Clock 06:47 Explaining The Trust Fund 12:22 Simpson Bowles Lessons 19:11 Two Big New Ideas 23:27 AARP And Political Will 27:00 What It Takes To Reform 29:21 Commissions Versus Regular Order 32:54 Why AARP Has Power 34:49 Debt Versus Deficit 41:12 Fixes Healthcare Waste 45:04 Tax Reform And Revenue 51:48 Your Civic Assignment 53:56 Where To Find CRFB RESOURCES MENTIONED Committee For A Responsible Federal Budget: https://www.crfb.org/ Marc's Good for the Soul: https://marthastable.org/ LINKS: Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

    We Spend More on Interest Than Defense: We’re In A Debt Crisis | Marc Goldwein

  4. Oct 7

    Tribalism Is Destroying American Politics | Lura Forcum

    Most of us don’t want “our side” to win. We want the country to work, with less chaos, less political theater, and fewer people getting rich off outrage while nothing gets fixed. We’re joined by Lura Forcum, a consumer and social psychologist who studies the human dynamics underneath politics, identity, belonging, and why we get so weird around people who disagree with us. Lura breaks down why “tribalism” isn’t just a buzzword. It’s the system underneath the system, and the real danger isn’t bickering; it’s dehumanization. Once the other side feels like an existential threat, we stop having policy conversations and start living in a survival story, and you can’t govern well from that place. We also talk about competitive politics versus tribal politics, and why purity tests on both sides reward warriors instead of statesmen. Lura explains how parties stop listening to voters and start dictating terms, and why policy so often gets made without talking to the people who actually live under it. If you’re disillusioned, tired, or waiting for the perfect candidate, Lura’s message is simple: vote anyway. Vote as an independent thinker, show up for primaries, and reward decency and public service over performative outrage. Her final assignment is surprisingly wholesome and honestly needed right now: have a potluck, break bread, and rebuild community face to face. CHAPTER MARKERS:00:00 Introduction 04:15 Tribal vs Competitive Politics 07:44 Warriors and Purity Tests 15:29 Rebuilding Civic Culture 18:15 Entitlement Reform Reality Check 22:11 Why Parties Ignore Voters 26:41 Independents and Real Competition 35:46 Why Primaries Matter 38:53 Decency Over Policy Purity 44:03 Social Media and Tribal Rage 48:05 Potluck as Civic Medicine RESOURCES MENTIONED Where to Find Lura: https://www.linkedin.com/in/luraforcum/ https://www.facebook.com/lura.forcum https://substack.com/@luraforcum https://www.instagram.com/luraforcum/ https://www.youtube.com/@LuraForcum_HowtoHuman Lura’s Podcast: https://wemadethispolitical.substack.com/ https://www.youtube.com/@WeMadeThisPolitical LINKS: Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

    Tribalism Is Destroying American Politics | Lura Forcum

  5. Sep 30

    "Bridgers vs. Dividers: The Report Card That Could Change the Midterms "

    Most of us don’t actually want “our side” to win. We want the country to work, with less chaos, less political theatre, and fewer people getting rich off outrage while nothing gets fixed. This week we welcomed Brad Porteus from Bridge Grades back onto the podcast, and his idea is refreshingly simple. Bridge Grades is a congressional report card that doesn’t measure ideology, it measures collaboration. It uses nonpartisan, third-party data to score how lawmakers govern, so you can get a clearer read on who builds across the aisle and who fuels division. What hit us most is how much this challenges the way we’re trained to vote. Most people don’t vote based on effectiveness; they vote based on identity, fear, habit, or revenge, and if you’re deeply loyal to a party, a report card probably won’t change your mind. The bigger opportunity is everyone else, especially the exhausted middle and the millions of eligible Americans who didn’t vote last election because they don’t trust anyone and don’t see the point. If you’re curious, use Bridge Grades as a second lens before the next election. Look up your lawmakers, notice what happens in your own head when you see a grade you didn’t expect, and ask what we’re rewarding as a culture. Because if we keep voting like it’s a tribal loyalty test, we’re going to keep getting tribal outcomes, and we’ll all keep sitting here wondering why nothing works. CHAPTER MARKERS:00:00 Introduction 00:21 Meet Brad and Bridge Grades 01:49 How the Scoring Works 07:29 Legislative Metrics Explained 11:22 Gaming the Bipartisan Score 13:47 Performative Bridging Debate 17:37 Exhausted Middle and Independents 20:29 Bridgers at Risk in Swing Seats 28:26 Roasting Government Dysfunction 31:41 Texas Race Trust Issues 34:14 Breaking Tribal Partisanship 36:32 Reaching the Disengaged Millions 38:05 Shift from Party to Ideology RESOURCES MENTIONED: Brad's Good for the Soul: Otis Cutts Old Music Friday: https://www.instagram.com/owencutts/?hl=en LINKS: Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

    "Bridgers vs. Dividers: The Report Card That Could Change the Midterms "

  6. Sep 23

    What If We Replaced Politicians With Regular People Picked by Lottery?

    We’ve lost a lot of trust in politicians in America, and it’s not hard to see why. Politics feels like a permanent campaign where leaders are performing, fundraising, and protecting their careers while the real problems keep getting worse. Our guest is Adam Cronkright, creator of the film Goodbye Politicians Hello Democracy, which explores a bold alternative to the current political system. Adam’s idea is simple but disruptive: replace career politicians with ordinary citizens selected by lottery, supported with experts and staff, and asked to make decisions on behalf of their communities. It’s a conversation about democratic lotteries, citizen assemblies, and what “government by the people” could actually mean in practice. We talk about why elections often produce a political class instead of real representation, and how incentives like party loyalty, media attention, and fundraising have turned politics into theatre. Adam shares what happened when 30 regular people in Michigan were selected during 2020 to work through pandemic decisions together, and why good faith disagreement becomes possible when nobody is angling for re-election or scoring points for social media. If you’re tired of political polarisation, the two-party system, and the feeling that you’re just a spectator in your own democracy, this episode offers a hopeful, practical reframe. It’s about accountability, trust, civic participation, and whether citizens could govern more effectively than professional politicians. CHAPTER MARKERS:00:00 Introduction 00:22 Meet Adam Cronkright 05:19 Why Make This Film 07:18 Democratic Lottery Explained 09:17 How Selection Works 14:07 Where Democracy Goes Next 18:10 A Post Party System 22:25 Pushback and Corruption 27:34 Extremes and Being Heard 30:19 How to Watch the Film RESOURCES MENTIONED: Goodbye Politicians, Hello Democracy: https://goodbyepoliticians.movie/ Adam's Good for the Soul: My Unsung Hero podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/my-unsung-hero/id1586880312 https://open.spotify.com/show/2lBDAGE8UkizPEC2ZjmgaP LINKS: Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

    What If We Replaced Politicians With Regular People Picked by Lottery?

  7. Sep 16

    How to Talk to “The Enemy” with Larry Rosen

    Politics can feel like a loyalty test now. Like you are either on the right team, or you are a threat. In this conversation with Larry Rosen, attorney turned mediator and host of The Enemies Project YouTube docuseries, we talk about what happens when people stop seeing each other as humans and start treating politics like a team sport. Larry’s work sits right in the middle of the biggest problems in political polarization and social division: we assume intention, we fill in the blanks with the worst story, and we turn disagreement into moral war. We unpack why conflict is rarely just about the surface issue, how “enemy making” works, and why curiosity feels like betrayal when the nervous system is in threat mode. We also get into Larry’s approach to depolarization and conflict resolution, including rapport-building, extreme perspective taking, and the moment that changes everything: helping people understand what the other person is trying to protect. It is not about forcing agreement. It is about making it harder to keep the other side as a cartoon, and easier to have hard conversations without dehumanising each other. If you care about bridging the political divide, civil discourse, and how to talk to people you disagree with without damaging your relationships beyond repair, this one will land. It is a reminder that healing is not soft, and it is not naive; it is one of the only paths out of the loop we are stuck in. CHAPTER MARKERS:00:00 Introduction 00:22 Meet Larry Rosen 02:50 From Lawyer to Mediator 05:43 Why Enemies Project Started 12:20 Enemies Project Format 15:49 Extreme Perspective Taking 19:37 Healthy Conflict Zone 23:33 Platforming and Safety 30:38 Casting Real Enemies 34:29 Why Activists Fight 35:39 Low Empathy And AI 42:22 Future Of Enemies Project RESOURCES MENTIONED: https://www.enemiesproject.org/ Larry's Good for the Soul: https://youtube.com/shorts/aFuuyibkx1Q?si=MhVJvWhH5SMGPDdb LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

    How to Talk to “The Enemy” with Larry Rosen

  8. Sep 9

    Liberal and Conservative: 5 Questions We've Always Wanted to Ask

    We are back in the Ozarks for our second annual in-person recording at Jolene’s house, and we decided to ask each other a handful of questions we have thought about asking, but never have. We start with something deceptively simple: why Jolene hides how funny (and sometimes crass) she is on the podcast. It turns into a bigger conversation about authenticity, self-censoring, and how exhausting it is to try to be inoffensive all the time. In a culture where politics feels performative and everyone is bracing for outrage, being real can feel risky, but it is also what makes people relatable. From there we get into the harder stuff: what Nicole struggles to defend about the Democratic Party, and what Republican beliefs she actually agrees with. We talk about political extremes, the national debt, homelessness, cost of living, and why so many people can “smell” consultant language and talking points a mile away. It is less about scoring points and more about thinking clearly, even when your own side is messy. If you are tired of political polarization, tribalism, and the feeling that every conversation is a loyalty test, this episode is a reminder that there is another way through, and it starts with staying human long enough to listen. CHAPTER MARKERS:00:00 Introduction 00:35 Five Questions Challenge 01:07 Why Not More Humor 05:44 Democrats Hard To Defend 11:13 Holding Back On Air 15:35 Common Ground With GOP 17:27 Questioning Beliefs ALICE 25:13 Three Laws As President 26:47 Voter ID Accountability 27:14 Reining In Executive Orders 28:26 Stocks PACs and Lobbyists 30:27 Why AI Feels Dangerous 35:02 Everyday AI and Kids 37:27 Dream Administration Picks 43:25 Cross Party Leadership Idea 44:37 Personal Secrets and Shyness 47:07 Pickup Truck Life Lesson RESOURCES MENTIONED: Larry Rosen of The Enemies Project: https://www.enemiesproject.org/ WGTT United for Alice episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWR77jzh1aQ Gwen Stefani- Hollerback Girl: https://youtu.be/Kgjkth6BRRY?si=p_xkfcscFsHegSD4 Patsy Cline- Crazy: https://youtu.be/MbnrdCS57d0?si=H7N6gdb9DX4JBp3m Dolly Parton-Jolene: https://youtu.be/Ixrje2rXLMA?si=k6qzW_ix_5MwiX9G Ray LaMontagne- Jolene: https://youtu.be/YTjKotAu4xQ?si=VX_9eYc6Xxd3GLTB Cruise Inn Throttle Down: https://cruise-inns.com/ Congress Stock Trading: https://www.quiverquant.com/congresstrading/ Van Jones interview with Bill Gates: https://vanjones.substack.com/p/my-bill-gates-interview-on-ai-global?r=n7so4&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web×tamp=1.2 Brooke L. Rollins, Secretary of Agriculture: https://www.usda.gov/our-agency/about-usda/our-secretary Senator Jeff Merkley: https://www.merkley.senate.gov/ Governor Mikie Sherill: https://www.nj.gov/governor/ Courage Can Save Us Book: https://couragecansaveus.com/ With Honor: https://withhonor.org/ Rahm Emanuel: https://www.instagram.com/rahmemanuel/?hl=en Sarah Longwell of The Bulwark: https://www.longwellpartners.com/sarah-longwell/ LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

    Liberal and Conservative: 5 Questions We've Always Wanted to Ask
See All (91)

Trailer

4.8
out of 5
26 Ratings

About

Our story begins in the halls of the University of Iowa, go Hawks! It was there that two seemingly different paths intersected and a friendship blossomed. Despite our different upbringings—Jolene in little Pleasantville, Iowa, and me, Nicole, just across the Golden Gate Bridge in the bustling Bay Area—we became fast friends. And here we are, almost 40 years later, living in a world that often seems intent on drawing lines in the sand and choosing sides. So why "We've Got To Talk"? Because we truly believe that in this deeply divided society, the power of conversation can unite us. Our goal isn't to change each other's opinions, but to listen with curiosity, kindness, and empathy. And yes, to have a good time while doing it! We invite you to join us on this journey and bring your friends along. We might not have all the answers or any of them—but we promise honesty, empathy, and a lot of heart. We hope our conversations give you a fresh outlook or at least entertain you as you go about your day.

Information

  • Creator
    Nicole Fonarow and Jolene Conway
  • Years Active
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodes
    91
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Copyright 2026 Nicole Fonarow and Jolene Conway
  • Show Website
    We've Got To Talk

You Might Also Like