The Wisdom of Grief Podcast

Leslie Hunt Palumbo

Where we talk about all things grief, always with the goal of restoring from loss and rediscovering joy. We approach grief through an injury model, where healing isn’t just possible, its expected. Each episode provides both practical frameworks & emotional support. We’ll focus on manageable pieces, offering you the vital knowledge and tools needed to navigate this journey effectively. Im your host, Leslie Palumbo, a psychotherapist, grief counselor, author, & speaker with over 25 years of personal & professional experience in grief & bereavement. lesliepalumbo.substack.com

  1. 1d ago

    Grief Anniversaries

    Grief anniversaries, birthdays, and the dates of a loved one’s passing can bring anxiety, longing, and guilt about how to mark the day. In this episode, we discuss two universal truths about anniversaries and three guiding principles to help you navigate them with greater ease and self-compassion. Discover why the anticipation is often harder than the day itself, why there is no right or wrong way to honor your loved one, and how to give yourself grace while staying connected to the love you shared. If you have lost an intimate partner, please consider joining us for our next Live Partner Loss Cohort on Zoom November 12th to December 17th. USE CODE REBUILD26 for $100 discount. It’s a smaller supportive community, limited to just 12. You can find out also more information on lesliepalumbo.com/widow rebuild/ And we also have a Self Study Course, if you find yourself in the territory of partner loss and want to get the lay of the land. Finally, because this is such a full topic, there is more to explore. Join me LIVE on Zoom for a special workshop & discussion for PAID SUBSCRIBERS NOVEMBER 2nd, 12pm We’ll go deeper into how we move through these tender, chellenging dates, find our own ways forward. e can have a deeper discussion and share how we move through anniversaries and support one another. Paid subscribers, I’ll be sending you the Zoom link. I hope you’ll join us! ❤️ TRANSCRIPT: Hi there, and welcome to the Wisdom of Grief podcast, where we explore the journey of loss, the loss, the grief as our response to and recovery from it. That’s including short-term intense grief, long-term grief, how to live with it all, and of course, rediscovering new forms of joy. I’m your host, Leslie Palumbo. I’m a grief counselor, author, I’m a therapist. Grief work is my calling, and I explore ways to move through it more smoothly and how to learn to live with it in the best way possible: through work with my clients, through my own exploration and research, and then I share it with you. So today, we’re going to be talking about something that I get a lot of questions on, and that recently came up with a client, and that is how to approach anniversaries, birthdays, or the day of someone’s death. I had a client reach out to me looking for perspective on how to best approach the first year of a spouse’s passing, and she said her instincts were to just kind of keep it to herself, celebrate his life in terms of doing things that he loved to do. And she felt like that would give her joy. But she was kind of unsure, she was struggling with it a bit, and she didn’t know how it was gonna go, felt anxious, and she wanted a third-party perspective. You might recognize that kind of not knowing what’s right or wrong to do, how to mark a day, how you’re going to feel. You might notice that in yourself. There are some other scenarios that I’ve seen. One is, for example: I felt numb. I couldn’t access anything. I wanted to remember all the good parts of our love, and remember them that day, but I was just numb. And the day passed, and then I felt so bad about myself, like, why couldn’t I even feel about them? Am I forgetting them, or do I not care? I that’s something I think a lot of people feel. And, here’s another one: I avoided it altogether. I just tried not to think about it. And I did that, it went okay, just kind of taking care of myself, getting exercise, I took a swim, but then I felt like maybe I was just avoiding my grief. Maybe I was repressing. And then I also felt kind of guilty, like, was I being disrespectful to them, like, and also to our love, and, like, not doing it justice? I recognize that in myself, because for a while now, I have chosen not to mark the day that my husband died, because my logic is, why would I mark, or celebrate one of the hardest days of my life, and more particularly, the last day of his. But then I do,have to work, with the guilt around that. The bottom line is anniversaries and how and whether and what way to mark them is such a complicated topic that it made me want to do this podcast episode without a guest, without an interview, and just offer some more perspective and information on it. Because anniversaries, death-iversaries, birthdays, some people call them heavenly birthdays- for all these days, whatever we call them, there’s no doubt that they cause a great deal of anxiety. And we just can’t help but move towards these with a lot of fear, negative anticipation and even just kind of expectation for the day and how we might feel, or even a lot of guilt for not doing it right or for letting them down. All these head trips that the mind gives us make grief worse. And, like all anxiety, anxiety is just warning us about something we don’t understand, like, we can’t explain, but we know inside. I think intuitively, we all know that on these kind of life marker days, the loss, our love for them, and the memory of traumatic things is stored in our cellular memory. It’s going to be felt on some level on our mind, body, or spirit, and we just don’t know how. People mark the day in all kinds of ways. It’s so individual. For some people, it’s super public, and super structured. And for others, it’s really private. Some people it’s formal, some people it’s very informal, or not at all. And there really is no right or wrong way to do it. But I’m going to break this discussion down into two parts. The first is universal truths about anniversaries. And the second is just general guidance that can help you make your decision about how to move through these life markers. So, first, the universal, and this consists of two things, primarily, because amongst all the uncertainty about anniversaries and how they’re gonna go, two things are certain. . * There’s always anxiety. It’s natural. Our fear of uncertainty is in our body: it’s a our survival mechanism. Our limbic brain is wired to fire up a biological fear response, including resistance to anything new, to the unknown. That’s been a matter of survival for us as a species. It’s how we survived. So, just know, fear and anxiety are a natural response to what we haven’t been through before. And each year, it’s different, even if you’ve been through it at year one, it’s different from at year six. It just is, because we are different people, we’re always changing. But, for almost every client that I have seen, the anticipation of the anniversary produces more anxiety than the actual day, no matter how you spend it. So 99 times out of 100, the anticipation is worse, often much worse than the day itself. So keep that in mind. * The day won’t go perfectly. It will never fully be what you hoped in terms of honoring them. You know, the last day of their life doesn’t usually go as you would have hoped. You probably didn’t get to say the goodbye that you wanted. Things don’t go perfectly. And here’s why: on the day of an anniversary, a birthday, someone’s passing, you can’t save up all your feelings and have access to all the best memories and feel all the emotions you want to about them in order to properly honor them or express your love. You can’t do it on command, on the day, all at once. It just won’t happen. You may honor parts of them, you may feel some of what I call happy longing, you may feel memories coming to the surface, but you will not feel complete around this loss. The hardest day may not be the one you expect, you know? So on the day, you may have feelings, memories, signs sometimes, and something small may shift inside of you, like, I made it. Many people are pleasantly surprised with how it goes, actually, in comparison to the anxiety. And this is more likely if you keep these three pieces of guidance in mind. So I want to go now to the General Guidance for How to Move Through Anniversaries: * There are no shoulds. Except that how you choose to spend the day should only involve things that nourish you, not deplete you, and should always be an attempt to help you feel connected to the best of their love and the life you shared together. Attempt. I say attempt because we can’t always have access to it, but we’re just trying. We’re just guiding ourselves in the direction of what is right for us to help us feel connected to the best of the love and the life we shared with our lost loved one. And only if it nourishes us and doesn’t deplete us, because anniversaries of any kind often bring this natural upsurge of grief, and we’re more sensitive, because the pain and the trauma are stored inside. So, having extra respect for yourself and your needs is the best thing you can do. * Leave space to pivot. Be flexible in your agenda for yourself. If on the day you’re not feeling like doing something that you had planned, don’t feel compelled to do it. Because in general, you don’t know in advance, so you have to be willing to pivot. Move towards love. Love for yourself and your needs on that particular day, because you’re the one who is still here, in a body, still able to feel pain. Which is connected to number * However you choose to connect with the beauty of your loved one’s life and your love, take time to also honor yourself for what you have lived and survived this past year. It’s a brave and beautiful thing just to keep showing up for yourself every day, and to showing up to life every day, despite what you’ve been through. So extra kindness towards yourself and your wound is the best thing you can do. Give yourself grace. And maybe some small ritual that helps you to honor yourself and the strength required to move through what you’ve been moving through over the last year of your grief, whatever year it is, whatever birthday it is, whatever anniversary it is. With regard to specifics, I would say follow your intuition. And people don’t think they have intuition, but intuition just really means

    Grief Anniversaries
  2. Jun 11

    Parent Loss & The Bonds That Remain

    In this deeply meaningful episode, I sit down with my dear friend Sarah Hamlin to explore the profound terrain of losing a parent. Sarah shares the intimate story of her mother’s decision to pursue medical aid in dying- and what it asked of her to remain present through a consciously chosen ending, as both a daughter and a mother to her own children. Together, we reflect on twhat it means to become an “orphan,” and to live alongside grief that refuses to be rushed, that doesn’t resolve but evolves, reshaping us over time. We explore the ways connection continues- through meaning, memory, and especially through signs and sychronicities- revealing the enduring bond between those here and those we’ve lost, and the quiet comfort of sensing our loved ones still reaching toward us with love. Transcript below: Hi Everybody! Welcomeot the Wisdom of Grief Podcast. I’m your host, Leslie Hunt Palumbo, and today you get the privilege of meeting one of my nearest and dearest friends for many, many years, Sarah Hamlin. Sarah is a lawyer, social worker, and advocate for children and families as a program director for the state of Connecticut. But she is here today in a different capacity, and that is in the capacity of grieving daughter. So, welcome, Sarah! * Sarah Hamlin Thank you, Leslie. It’s exciting to be here and have this conversation with you today. Leslie H Palumbo, LCSW It so is, and I know that you and I have talked about grief, life, death, so many times over the years, and we have walked each other through our hardest losses in this life. But in particular, I feel like you have something so valuable to say that comes from your own experience of loss, and in particular, the loss of your mother. and also the loss of both of your parents, so, being an adult orphan, which I think many people are, and that’s a particular kind of loss that I would love to touch on, and also to talk about, medical aid in dying, which is, the way that your mother’s life ended. So, I would love to start with your mom, and just talk about that, and what happened in 2022 for you. Sarah Hamlin Okay, yeah, I think, you know, it’s been really an interesting experience, partly becaus… you have this concept, right, of, like, medical aid and dying, and then to step into it as something that you’re going through with a loved one, we had a lot to learn. Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief And let me just stop for one second just to say, for people who don’t know what medical aid in dying is, it is actually when a medical professional subscribes the medication to end a terminally ill patient’s life, and then the patient takes it. So it requires terminal illness, a sound mind. It’s voluntary, and it’s taken by a person’s own hand. And it’s becoming a much more common part of our lexicon and discussion now, because even in the United States, it’s legal in 14 states. I think it’s on the legislative agenda for, like, 14 more states. So, there are a lot of people who are sort of talking about it, but fewer people who have actually lived through it. So, yeah. Sarah Hamlin Right, yeah, and so I think you’re right, I think the first law was passed, you know, in, 1994, but it’s taken a long time for other states to come on board. And my mother, actually, she was living up in Maine as a legal resident of Maine, where, the medical aid in dying law had gone into effect…I can’t remember the exact year, maybe 2019, or… but regardless, it was sufficient for her to be able to access it. And my mother had, congestive heart failure and her health had been declining for a number of years, but she made an announcement, early on in 2022 that she wanted to take advantage of the law. And she said, you know, I’m ready to, be done. I mean, you know, it was very shocking, I think, for all of us. Our family had had some significant exposure to the concept through an uncle who was a real advocate, a national advocate for medical aid in dying, and had been connected to a national organization called Compassion and Choices. And so we had some exposure and comfort with it, so it wasn’t something we weren’t familiar with, but then to know that my mother wanted to do this meant that we had to really educate ourselves about how it worked in Maine, and what we needed to do. It’s hard to… I think, convey adequately what it feels like to be planning something like that. I mean, my mother actually, looked at a calendar and said, oh, September 22nd is the autumnal equinox. That sounds like a good day. And so we knew for many months that that was the day that my mother was going to die. Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief How old was she? Sarah Hamlin She was 85. And she had actually already been approved for hospice. So she was… On hospice care and had been for many months, even at the time that we started this process. And so that piece that you mentioned before, having been declared a… having a terminal illness is essential to the process. And in Maine, you actually have to have two different physicians Confirm that, based on their medical experience, that that it’s likely that the person will, die from that terminal illness within about 6 months. But we still had many steps we had to take. She had to declare verbally, multiple times and put in writing that this was her choice, that she was voluntarily, entering into this process. And, I think, you know, just to take a step back and say what it felt like to walk with her through this part is that you’re trying to sort of separate from the emotions almost a little bit, right? Because you have steps and tasks that you have to do, and…I was really intentional about wanting to support her. But in some ways, that means you’re putting aside your own emotions and feelings, right? Like, how do you process something like that? I think it was really… it’s sort of shocking, because…you know, you have this exposure, and then all of a sudden, it’s like, wow, I’m in it, this is happening to me, and I want to honor, my mother’s wishes around it, and I need to be strong for her. Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief And it’s so interesting, because I remember going through this with you, and I remember also that your mother… she was dying, and I think at the time I remember you saying, you can correct me if I’m wrong, but at the time that she chose to end her suffering, she was in great suffering, and she probably would have only had maybe 2 more weeks. Somewhere in the next 2 weeks, she would have gone. So her life was ending anyway. But I feel like I remember it was about the suffering. You know, I think the whole idea of medical aid in dying is just really choosing death over suffering. You know, extensive, long suffering, I believe. Sarah Hamlin I think you’re absolutely right, and I think that, you know, even though… because you never know, like, she could have had two weeks, she could have had, you know, it could continue to prolong. I think part of it For those who choose it. It’s absolutely about ending the suffering, but I think it’s about taking back some control, some decision-making about how do I want the moment, the end of my life moment, to look like and be like. And I think for my mother, it brought her a lot of peace to know that she was actively, engaged in the process and had some control over it. She was able to have the people she loved most surround her. She was able to say her goodbyes, and she knew that she, because she was in a great deal of pain, and during the last few weeks of her life, had been taking a lot more pain medication, and was…almost not even able to communicate on the same level, because she needed to be, medicated so much. So, I think… I think, yeah, for her perspective, it felt very comforting and,Yeah, she just knew that she was gonna have the exact death that she envisioned for herself. Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief Yeah, and what was that like, going through that? A planned death. It’s like a planned… Birth, you know?It’ll happen anyway, but you’re just choosing when it’s gonna happen. Sarah Hamlin: I know. And she was very matter-of-fact about it, to be honest, which I think, in some ways, made it better. In some ways, you know, maybe we struggled with it, too, because, what I remember very vividly is she chose a time, too. She said, we’re gonna do it at 10 AM, On September 22nd, 2022. So, we were all with her. It was my two siblings, my older brother’s wife, and then my two children. We were all there, and my mother had some phone calls, and we had two hospice Staff who were present at the beginning, but then as soon as she was ready to take the medication, they actually had to leave, so they were not a part of any of that. But you know, we were just… we were talking, we were visiting, you know, had music on. My mother had selected music that she wanted to play, and we were reading poems, and just really, Interacting and connecting. And then my mother, you know, we were aware of the time going by, right? Like, I saw it was 10 o’clock, then it’s after 10, and then my mother sort of said, oh, well, don’t I need to take a second dose? And we were like, Mom, you haven’t even taken the first dose yet, and it’s after 10, and she was like, you know, we’re off the timeline. I think she really…It helped her I think mentally and emotionally, to have this…timeline that she was adhering to. And, that part, that moment, when, you know, because we had to get medication prescribed and, had to go… not all pharmacies can prescribe it, so I had to drive…about an hour from her home to a pharmacy to get it, and even the pharmacist had been, unsure of what to do, because it was new to them. It was the first time they were prescribed… like, they were filling the prescription.But so, for my mother, once, once we got to that moment when she said, she was

    Parent Loss & The Bonds That Remain
  3. Apr 24

    Mother Loss & Mother Wounds

    There are some relationships that shape us in ways we’re still discovering long after they’re gone. In this episode, we step into a deeply honest and expansive conversation about mother loss, mother wounds, and the complexity of grieving imperfect relationships. Together with author, fellow mother griever, and Substack writer Amy Scott Rooker, we explore how grief can become a powerful force for personal and spiritual transformation. We also open into experiences that often live just beyond language- signs and messages from the other side, and the use of plant medicine as a pathway to insight, connection, and healing. This is a conversation filled with depth, nuance, and moments that may feel strikingly familiar. Amy’s presence and perspective bring so much depth, honesty, and resonance to this conversation about healing traumatic loss and relationships. There is so much here to gently sit with, reflect on, and take with you on the alternative and spiritual front. You can find her Substack here: https://amyrooker.substack.com/ You can pre-order Amy’s book here: https://amyrooker.substack.com/p/a-gift-for-you-the-opening-of-my This space is always open for you. I welcome your reflections, your questions, and anything this conversation brings up for you—whether for me or for Amy. If there’s something you’d like to hear explored in a future episode, I’m listening, and here for all of it. ✨ If you’d like to read more about my own experience with complicated mother loss, you can do that here: https://lesliepalumbo.substack.com/p/the-book Get full access to Wisdom of Grief at lesliepalumbo.substack.com/subscribe

    Mother Loss & Mother Wounds

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About

Where we talk about all things grief, always with the goal of restoring from loss and rediscovering joy. We approach grief through an injury model, where healing isn’t just possible, its expected. Each episode provides both practical frameworks & emotional support. We’ll focus on manageable pieces, offering you the vital knowledge and tools needed to navigate this journey effectively. Im your host, Leslie Palumbo, a psychotherapist, grief counselor, author, & speaker with over 25 years of personal & professional experience in grief & bereavement. lesliepalumbo.substack.com