Poets & Thinkers

Benedikt Lehnert
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Poets & Thinkers explores the humanistic future of business leadership through deep, unscripted conversations with visionary minds – from best-selling authors and inspiring artists to leading academic experts and seasoned executives. Hosted by tech executive, advisor, and Princeton entrepreneurship & design fellow Ben Lehnert, this podcast challenges conventional MBA wisdom, blending creative leadership, liberal arts, and innovation to reimagine what it means to lead in the AI era.  If you believe leadership is both an art and a responsibility, this is your space to listen, reflect, and evolve.

  1. 1D AGO

    Design Against Racism: On the myth of design’s neutrality, lack of critical thinking and the future of design leadership with Omari Souza

    In this episode, Ben sits down with Omari Souza, design researcher and professor, founder of the State of Black Design Conference, and author of his newly released book Design Against Racism. A first-generation American of Jamaican descent and first in his family to attend university, Omari brings a perspective shaped by being the sole Black male graduate in his design program—an experience that launched his career-defining investigation into where the Black designers are and why design has failed to serve marginalized communities. We discuss the failures of traditional business and design leadership and explore what a more equitable future vision looks like; and what can be done to make it a reality. Key Ideas: Design is not neutral—it amplifies the intentions of those who wield itThe myth of "design does no harm" vs. the reality that we don't teach measurement of harmHow Bauhaus borrowed heavily from West African art without acknowledgment or investmentIn-group/out-group dynamics: why men can't design equitable bathroom experiences for women (and why women can't design equitably for trans or disabled women without understanding their positionality)The danger of AI trained on information "limited in scope and perspective"Positionality mapping: understanding the intersections of identity that create blind spotsDesign at the extremes: solve for the greatest difficulties and greatest ease to shift the entire windowWhy business focus on shareholder profit prevents humane outcomesThe shift from profit to prosperity as a broader definition of successResources & References Design Against Racism by Omari Souza State of Black Design Conference  Africa to Bauhaus exhibit at the Smithsonian FastCompany article on Joe Gebbia as the United States’ Chief Design Officer Connect with Omari Souza Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/omari-souza-b483187/ Bio: Omari Souza is an assistant professor at the University of North Texas. He is the organizer of the State of Black Design Conference (online, April 2021). He previously organized and hosted an multi-panel event titled "The State of Black Design" (online, Sept. 2020), which drew a live audience of 2,071 — the second-largest livestream audience for an academic event in Texas State's history. Omari is a first-generation American of Jamaican descent, raised in the Bronx, New York. Before arriving at Texas State, he gained work experience with companies and institutions such as VIBE magazine, the Buffalo News, CBS Radio, and Case Western Reserve University. He earned a BFA in Digital Media from Cleveland Institute of Art and an MFA in Design from Kent State University. Omari's research explores the idea of perceptions and how visual narratives influence culture — how we view ourselves and others around us. Send a text Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/poetsandthinkerspodcast/ Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/poets-thinkers/id1799627484 Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4N4jnNEJraemvlHIyUZdww?si=2195345fa6d249fd Send your ideas, feedback and guest recommendations to ben@poetsandthinkers.co

    46 min

  2. JAN 28

    Brain Hacking & Trauma-Informed Leadership: Creating space for human ingenuity to flourish with Christina Goldschmidt

    What if the only way to unlock ingenuity in our organizations is by showing up as authentic leaders who first and foremost know how to “hack their brain” and lead themselves? In this episode, Ben sits down with Christina Goldschmidt, VP of Product Design at Warner Music Group and adjunct professor at NYU Stern. With her deep understanding of neuroscience and trauma-informed leadership, Christina brings a radically different perspective on how to unlock human potential in the age of AI, and why the future of business leadership requires us to embrace our most human qualities. Christina’s vision for management is about understanding our unique cognitive patterns and building organizations where everyone can access their ingenuity. Key Ideas: Procrastination as brain chemistry: learning to induce creative pressure without the downsidesThree modes of problem-solving: dialogue, liminal spaces (showers!), and unconscious processingWhy trauma-informed leadership creates better outcomes for everyoneAuthenticity as permission: when leaders show up as themselves, teams can tooThe apprenticeship crisis: how automation is eliminating the grunt work that teaches skillsVision as the essential AI-age skill: knowing what you want before you can prompt for itCuriosity as the antidote to fear in times of rapid changeResources & References Dopamine Nation by Dr. Anna Lemke  Notes on Being a Man by Scott Galloway Connect with Christina Goldschmidt Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christinagoldschmidt/ Website: https://www.cgoldschmidt.com/ Send us a text Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/poetsandthinkerspodcast/ Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/poets-thinkers/id1799627484 Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4N4jnNEJraemvlHIyUZdww?si=2195345fa6d249fd Send your ideas, feedback and guest recommendations to ben@poetsandthinkers.co

    45 min

  3. JAN 14

    Against the Tyranny of Winners: On beautiful business in the AI age, the rise of “Supercuration”, and the end of efficiency with Tim Leberecht

    What if the future of business isn’t human at all—and maybe that’s exactly what will liberate us to become more humane? In this first episode of season 2, Ben sits down with Tim Leberecht, co-founder and CEO of the House of Beautiful Business, and author of The Business Romantic. Speaking from Istanbul, Tim doesn’t mince words: business is fundamentally broken, caught in an unholy alliance of technocracy, late-stage capitalism, and rising authoritarianism. Yet in this darkness, he sees the seeds of something radically different. Key Ideas: Business is hitting rock bottom—the perfect moment to imagine something radically differentThe false gods of modern management: optimization, efficiency, and winningWhy the future of business may not be human, but must remain humanistFrom economy of efficiency to economy of care and wonderSupercuration: the art of benevolent exclusion and caring for ideasThe death of agency and the birth of new forms of dignityWhy the only dignified work is the work we do for ourselves as artistsLove, care, and world-building as essential leadership qualitiesResources & References House of Beautiful Business – Global community humanizing business  The Business Romantic – Tim’s manifesto against optimization  Against the Tyranny of the Winners (published in German)  Supercuration – Forthcoming book on the art of curation  The Poly Opportunity – Series examining intersecting positive trends  Douglas Rushkoff on attention and human connection  Hartmut Rosa’s Resonance – Sociology of vibration and attunement  Gianpiero Petriglieri on love and leadership  Shoukei Matsumoto’s Work Like a Monk Connect with Tim Leberecht: Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tleberecht/ Website: https://timleberecht.com/ Company: https://houseofbeautifulbusiness.com/ Send us a text Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/poetsandthinkerspodcast/ Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/poets-thinkers/id1799627484 Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4N4jnNEJraemvlHIyUZdww?si=2195345fa6d249fd Send your ideas, feedback and guest recommendations to ben@poetsandthinkers.co

    53 min

  4. 09/17/2025

    The B******t Economy: How our obsession with control is making us sick with João Sevilhano

    What if our desperate need for certainty, predictability, and control is not making us safer but actually making us psychologically ill? In this episode of Poets & Thinkers, we explore the hidden pathology of modern life with João Sevilhano, a psychologist, business consultant, and philosopher whose work challenges the fundamental assumptions of how we organize society, education, and business. From his home in Lisbon during his summer break, João brings two decades of experience working at the intersection of psychology and corporate culture to reveal the deep contradictions in our pursuit of certainty. João takes us on a journey from ancient Greek concepts of human development to the modern “b******t economy” that rewards empty performance over substance. Drawing from his background as both a clinical psychologist who worked in psychiatric hospitals and a business consultant who helps organizations navigate change, he reveals how our educational systems, corporate structures, and even personal relationships have become organized around the illusion of control rather than the cultivation of wisdom. Through the lens of psychoanalysis and contemporary philosophy, João demonstrates how our inability to tolerate uncertainty is creating a society-wide pathology that distances us from our humanity. In our conversation, João challenges us to reconsider everything from how we raise children to how we structure organizations, arguing that our obsession with metrics, productivity, and predictable outcomes is creating “emotional bureaucrats” who have internalized corporate logic into their most intimate experiences. His vision for healing this syndrome involves embracing what he calls “useful uselessness” and rediscovering the ancient balance between suffering and growth that makes us fully human. In this thought-provoking discussion, we explore: Why psychopathology is proportional to our need for certainty and controlHow modern education systems prepare us for performance rather than wisdomThe shift from ancient Greek paideia to modern workforce preparationWhy we’ve created a “b******t economy” where empty words have market valueHow technology externalizes internal conflicts and stunts psychological developmentThe concept of "emotional bureaucrats" and the bureaucratization of intimacyWhy AI could either liberate us or deepen our disconnection from ourselvesThis episode is an invitation to examine the hidden costs of our certainty-obsessed culture and to consider what it might mean to build organizations and societies that honor the full complexity of human experience. Resources Mentioned The Certainty Syndrome essay by João Sevilhano  The B******t Economy essay by João Sevilhano Post Depth essay by João Sevilhano Byung-Chul Han’s philosophical works on modern burnout culture  The Permanent Crisis book on the decline of humanities education  Send us a text Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/poetsandthinkerspodcast/ Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/poets-thinkers/id1799627484 Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4N4jnNEJraemvlHIyUZdww?si=2195345fa6d249fd Send your ideas, feedback and guest recommendations to ben@poetsandthinkers.co

    50 min

  5. 09/02/2025

    AI as Normal Technology: On superintelligence delusion, bogus claims and a humanistic AI future with Prof. Arvind Narayanan

    What if the race toward “superintelligence” is misguided and what does a more humanistic vision for AI adoption actually look like? In this episode of Poets & Thinkers, we dive deep into the intersection of artificial intelligence, culture, and human agency with Prof. Arvind Narayanan, a computer science professor at Princeton University whose work has fundamentally challenged how we think about AI’s role in society. Named on TIME’s inaugural list of 100 most influential people in AI, Arvind brings decades of research experience studying the gap between tech industry promises and real-world impacts. Arvind takes us beyond the hype and fear that dominates AI discourse, as we dive into his book “AI Snake Oil” (co-authored with Sayash Kapoor) and their latest essay titled “AI as Normal Technology” that draws powerful parallels to past general-purpose technologies like electricity and automobiles.  He reveals why the term “artificial intelligence” itself creates dangerous confusion, masking critical differences between predictive AI systems that are already affecting the lives of millions of people – determining who gets bail, healthcare coverage, and job opportunities – and generative AI tools like ChatGPT that capture public attention.  Through rigorous analysis of adoption patterns, organizational barriers, and historical societal precedent, Arvind demonstrates why superintelligence predictions fundamentally misunderstand both the nature of human intelligence and the complex realities of technological diffusion. In our conversation, Arvind challenges leaders to move beyond automation fantasies toward human-AI augmentation, explains why current AI benchmarks fail catastrophically at predicting real-world performance, and makes the case for why flexible, bottom-up innovation will determine which organizations thrive in the AI era. His perspective bridges computer science rigor with deep humanistic values, showing how thoughtful design and governance frameworks can help us navigate this transformation while keeping human agency at the center. This episode is a provocation to think more precisely about AI’s actual impacts, move beyond techno-optimism and techno-pessimism toward nuanced understanding, and focus on the practical frameworks needed to ensure this technology serves human flourishing. Resources Mentioned “AI Snake Oil” book by by Prof. Arvind Narayanan and Sayash Kapoor “AI is Normal Technology” essay by Prof. Arvind Narayanan and Sayash Kapoor Air Canada chatbot legal case as reported by The Guardian Everett Rogers’ work on technology adoption Send a text Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/poetsandthinkerspodcast/ Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/poets-thinkers/id1799627484 Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4N4jnNEJraemvlHIyUZdww?si=2195345fa6d249fd Send your ideas, feedback and guest recommendations to ben@poetsandthinkers.co

    47 min

  6. 08/20/2025

    AI Sovereignty & the Literacy Gap: Policy lessons from the frontlines with Jaxson Khan

    What if the biggest regret we’ll have in 10 years isn’t over-regulating AI, but failing to educate people about it? In this episode of Poets & Thinkers, we explore the intersection of AI policy, national sovereignty, and digital literacy with Jaxson Khan, a unique cross-sector leader who transitioned from startup founder to senior policy advisor for Canada’s Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry. From his home in Toronto, Jaxson shares hard-won insights from the frontlines of AI policy development, where he helped craft Canada’s approach to artificial intelligence across multiple critical areas. Jaxson takes us behind the scenes of government AI strategy, revealing why less than 25% of Canadians have any formal AI education despite the country being home to some of the technology’s foundational researchers. He explains Canada’s Sovereign AI Compute Strategy – a response to the brain drain that sees Canadian talent and capital flow south to Silicon Valley – and makes the case for treating AI infrastructure like a public utility. Through his current work helping nonprofits and corporations adopt AI, Jaxson demonstrates how the same technology reshaping global geopolitics can be leveraged for social good. Throughout our conversation, Jaxson challenges the notion that we need to choose between innovation and regulation, instead advocating for what he calls “meaningful consent” in privacy frameworks and emphasizing the critical importance of cultural sovereignty in AI development. His perspective bridges the technical, political, and deeply human aspects of our AI-powered future, showing how policy decisions made today will determine whether societies remain intact through this transformation. In this discussion, we explore: Why AI literacy should be treated as urgently as national defense in the modern eraHow Canada is building sovereign AI infrastructure without trying to replace Big TechThe three pillars of AI sovereignty: technology IP, data and compute, and cultural preservationWhy privacy laws that predate iPhones are a “travesty” in the AI ageHow the imagination gap is holding back traditional companies from AI adoptionWhy NGOs and government agencies must accelerate AI adoption to stay relevantThis episode is an invitation to think beyond the hype and fear surrounding AI, focusing instead on the practical policy frameworks and educational foundations needed to ensure this powerful technology serves humanity’s highest aspirations. Resources Mentioned Canada’s Sovereign AI Compute Strategy  “Bridging the Imagination Gap” Royal Bank of Canada white paper OECD data on international AI adoption patterns  “AI is Normal Technology” by Prof. Arvind Narayanan and Sayash Kapoor “Genesis” by Kissinger, Sch Send us a text Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/poetsandthinkerspodcast/ Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/poets-thinkers/id1799627484 Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4N4jnNEJraemvlHIyUZdww?si=2195345fa6d249fd Send your ideas, feedback and guest recommendations to ben@poetsandthinkers.co

    50 min

  7. 08/06/2025

    The Model Can’t Relate: A poet’s rebellion inside the AI machine with Danielle McClune

    What if the people building AI are so caught up in the rush to market that they’ve forgotten to ask the most important question: what does this mean for humanity? In this refreshingly honest episode, we explore the human side of artificial intelligence with Danielle McClune, a writer and poet who has spent the last years at the epicenter of AI development at Microsoft, training conversational models and crafting the prompts that shape how AI communicates with millions of users worldwide. Danielle takes us behind the scenes of AI development with a perspective that’s rare in the tech industry – one grounded in creative writing, poetry, and a deep concern for preserving our humanity in an increasingly automated world. From her Substack “Soft Coded” writing that challenges the industry’s relentless optimism to her daily work training models to sound human while remembering they’re not, Danielle offers a critical yet nuanced view of where AI is headed and what we might be losing along the way. Throughout our conversation, Danielle reveals the absurdity of charging users for saying “please” and “thank you” to AI while encouraging human-like interaction, questions why we’re bolting chat interfaces onto existing software instead of reimagining human-computer interaction, and argues for maintaining the “uncanny valley” as a crucial reminder that we’re not talking to someone with a childhood. Her vision for AI as a public utility and her insights into what the technology might look like if women had led its development offer provocative alternatives to the current Silicon Valley narrative. In this conversation, we explore: Why saying “please” and “thank you” to AI reveals deeper contradictions in how we’re building the technologyThe rush to add chat interfaces to everything instead of reimagining user experiences from scratchWhy the uncanny valley might be a feature, not a bug, in human-AI interactionHow “vibe checks” and human intuition remain essential in evaluating AI outputThe case for treating AI as a public utility rather than private corporate propertyWhy training AI models feels like “raising a toddler” and often becomes “women’s work”This episode is an invitation to slow down, ask harder questions, and remember that behind every AI interaction is a human being whose life might be changed – for better or worse – by the choices we make today. Resources Mentioned Soft Coded is Danielle’s excellent Substack Ruined by Design – Mike Monteiro’s book Design for the Real World – Victor Papanek Connect with Danielle Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielle-mcclune-2b35b95b/ Substack: https://softcoded.substack.com/ Bio Danielle McClune is a writer and poet embedded in the frontier of AI development at Microsoft, where she has spent the last two years training conversational models and craftin Send us a text Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/poetsandthinkerspodcast/ Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/poets-thinkers/id1799627484 Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4N4jnNEJraemvlHIyUZdww?si=2195345fa6d249fd Send your ideas, feedback and guest recommendations to ben@poetsandthinkers.co

    41 min

  8. 07/23/2025

    Multisensory Beings: How neuroaesthetics shapes the future human-machine interaction and art – with Matthew Bennett

    Humans are multisensory beings. What if the tiny sounds you hear from your devices every day are literally vibrating through your body, changing your nervous system, and collectively creating decades of audio pollution? And what do we do about it in an age where generative AI is likely going to add even more noise?  In this fascinating episode of Poets & Thinkers, we explore the profound intersection of sound, technology, and human experience with Matthew Bennett, a composer, sound artist, and sensory designer who led sound design at Microsoft for 12 years. From his home studio in Seattle, Matthew reveals how he shaped the sonic experience of billions of people worldwide while pioneering a new paradigm for technology sound design. Matthew takes us on a journey through the science of sound as sensory experience – not just something we hear, but a form of touch that vibrates our entire body and changes our physiology. He shares mind-blowing insights about how Microsoft’s tiny notification sounds, when multiplied across hundreds of millions of users, created decades of sound pollution daily – and how his team cut 10 years off that global audio footprint by shortening sounds by just one second. Through the lens of neuroaesthetics and multisensory design, Matthew illustrates why our digital experiences are always multisensory whether we intend them to be or not. Throughout our conversation, Matthew challenges the current AI music generation hype, revealing how these tools expose the formulaic nature of popular music while lacking the human intention and authenticity that gives art its soul. He advocates for a “do no harm” approach to sound design, emphasizing the importance of designing silence and understanding that unexpected sounds can hijack our brains and trigger fight-or-flight responses. His vision for Musical Sensory Environments and precision therapies offers a glimpse into how sound can heal rather than harm. In this discussion, we explore: Why sound is actually a special form of touch that vibrates through your entire bodyHow tiny notification sounds create decades of global audio pollution dailyThe ethics of multisensory design and the responsibility that comes with scaleWhy AI-generated music reveals the formulaic nature of popular genresHow neuroesthetics can become essential literacy for designers and leadersThe difference between human intention and statistical pattern matching in creativityThis episode is an invitation to understand sound as a powerful force that shapes our digital ecosystems, our physical well-being, and our human connections – and to approach the creation of sensory experiences with the care and intention they deserve. Resources Mentioned Jaron Lanier’ workWorld Health Organization (WHO) research on noise pollution as global health crisisNeuroaesthetics research and fMRI studies on brain responses to soundMusical Sensory Environments – Matthew’s pioneering approach to immersive audioConnect with Matthew Bennett: Website: https://soundandsensory.com/ Send us a text Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/poetsandthinkerspodcast/ Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/poets-thinkers/id1799627484 Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4N4jnNEJraemvlHIyUZdww?si=2195345fa6d249fd Send your ideas, feedback and guest recommendations to ben@poetsandthinkers.co

    49 min
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Ratings & Reviews

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out of 5
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About

Poets & Thinkers explores the humanistic future of business leadership through deep, unscripted conversations with visionary minds – from best-selling authors and inspiring artists to leading academic experts and seasoned executives. Hosted by tech executive, advisor, and Princeton entrepreneurship & design fellow Ben Lehnert, this podcast challenges conventional MBA wisdom, blending creative leadership, liberal arts, and innovation to reimagine what it means to lead in the AI era.  If you believe leadership is both an art and a responsibility, this is your space to listen, reflect, and evolve.

Information

  • Creator
    Benedikt Lehnert
  • Years Active
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodes
    18
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 2026 Benedikt Lehnert
  • Show Website
    Poets & Thinkers