Poets & Thinkers

Benedikt Lehnert
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Poets & Thinkers explores the humanistic future of business leadership through deep, unscripted conversations with visionary minds – from best-selling authors and inspiring artists to leading academic experts and seasoned executives. Hosted by tech executive, advisor, and Princeton entrepreneurship & design fellow Ben Lehnert, this podcast challenges conventional MBA wisdom, blending creative leadership, liberal arts, and innovation to reimagine what it means to lead in the AI era.  If you believe leadership is both an art and a responsibility, this is your space to listen, reflect, and evolve.

  1. 6D AGO

    Make Doing Good Look Good: On designing for belonging, moral ambition and the pitfalls of privilege with Harald Dunnink

    Can designing a movement get the smartest people to work on the biggest problems instead of disappearing into what one author calls “the Bermuda Triangle of talent”: consulting, tech, and banking? In this episode, Ben sits down with Harald Dunnink, designer, serial co-founder, and advocate for moral ambition. Harald founded Momkai, a Dutch design agency “for people who give a damn,” co-founded De Correspondent (a member-funded journalism platform on a mission for “unbreaking news”), and most recently launched the School for Moral Ambition with bestselling author Rutger Bregman. Harald’s design philosophy centers, as he describes, on “making doing good look as good as possible” – using the same branding and marketing tools that sell sneakers and energy drinks to instead sell noble causes. He challenges the extractive mindset of traditional business with what he calls “memberful design” – designing not for users to be hooked, but for members to belong. Through his work he tries to combine the idealism of an activist with the ambition of an entrepreneur. This is a conversation about the difference between being radically hopeful and being called naive. About the role privilege plays in being able to choose morally ambitious work, and how to redefine success when everyone around you follows the same maximalist capitalistic playbook. Resources & References Momkai: https://momkai.com/  School for Moral Ambition: https://schoolformoralambition.org/  Small Fry by Lisa Brennan-Jobs  Humankind by Rutger Bregman  Moral Ambition by Rutger Bregman  The Good-Enough Life by Avram Alpert  Connect with Harald Dunnink LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haralddunnink/ Bio: Harald is a designer and serial co-founder who describes his philosophy as “cultivating calm and designing for belonging”. He founded Momkai, a Dutch design agency, working with international clients from Nike to Red Bull before pivoting to use those branding tools for social good. Harald also co-founded The Correspondent, a member-funded journalism platform for as he says “unbreaking news,” which also became a publishing house with nearly 30 bestselling books. Most recently, he co-founded the School for Moral Ambition with bestselling author Rutger Bregman, focusing on the biggest, most neglected, yet fixable problems. Send us Fan Mail Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/poetsandthinkerspodcast/ Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/poets-thinkers/id1799627484 Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4N4jnNEJraemvlHIyUZdww?si=2195345fa6d249fd Send your ideas, feedback and guest recommendations to ben@poetsandthinkers.co

    41 min

  2. MAR 11

    For The Culture: On beauty, AI slop, and what lasts when software companies die with Andy Allen

    What if the best business advice ever came from a five-year-old: “I think you should add some googly eyes and rainbow colors!” In this episode, Ben sits down with Andy Allen, co-founder of Not Boring Software, 2 times Apple Design Award winner, and former co-founder of the groundbreaking startup FiftyThree – makers of the Paper app and Pencil stylus.  Andy challenges the dominant narrative of software design: While the industry has matured and systematized around efficiency and automation over the last 30+ years, he argues we've lost the cultural impact, the playfulness, the human expression that makes software worth making. As he draws parallels to fashion and industrial design, Andy reveals why software designers have no heroes to look up to – only billionaires – and why that's a problem. His students at the University of Washington taught him to remember why he became a designer in the first place: not to optimize conversion funnels, but to make things that matter. This is a conversation about slowing down and embracing play. Resources & References For The Culture (Andy’s manifesto): https://notbor.ing/words/for-the-culture Not Boring: https://notbor.ing/ FiftyThree launches Pencil: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/nov/19/fiftythree-paper-pencil-ipad-stylus Connect with Andy Allen Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewsallen/ Bio: Andy Allen is the Alaskan-born, founder of !Boring Software Ltd creating fun software for life's boring routines (2x Apple Design Awards). Co-Founder of FiftyThree and the popular drawing app, Paper (acquired). Adjunct Professor of Software Design at the University of Washington's School of Art. Send us Fan Mail Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/poetsandthinkerspodcast/ Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/poets-thinkers/id1799627484 Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4N4jnNEJraemvlHIyUZdww?si=2195345fa6d249fd Send your ideas, feedback and guest recommendations to ben@poetsandthinkers.co

    56 min

  3. FEB 25

    Holder of Stories of the Heart: On radical self-inquiry and being a good leader in unsettling times with Jerry Colonna

    What if the most radical question you can ask yourself as a leader isn’t about strategy or growth – but simply “How am I actually feeling?” In this very personal episode, Ben sits down with Jerry Colonna, legendary executive coach, former venture capitalist, and author of Reboot and Reunion. Speaking just days after becoming a grandfather, Jerry brings the full weight of his wisdom as “Holder of Stories of the Heart”—a name that came to him during a water-only fast in the desert—to explore what it means to lead with humanity in increasingly inhuman times. Resources & References Reboot: Leadership and the Art of Growing Up by Jerry Colonna  Reunion: Leadership and the Longing to Belong by Jerry Colonna  Siddhartha by Hermann Hesse Bell Hooks’ poems “When Angels Speak of Love”  REM’s “It's the End of the World As We Know It (And I Feel Fine)”  Jerry’s essay on coaching from an elder's perspective  Connect with Jerry Colonna Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jerry-colonna-reboot/ Bio: Leadership through radical self-inquiry. This is the driving idea behind the work of Jerry Colonna. For over two decades, he has been dedicated to the proposition that work should be non-violent to the self, non-violent to the community, and non-violent to the planet. Jerry is a coach, writer, and speaker who focuses on leadership, business, and the practice of radical self-inquiry. He is the Co-founder and CEO of Reboot.io, a company born from the rallying cry that work does not have to destroy us. Work can be the way in which we achieve our fullest self. A graduate of Queens College, Jerry helps people lead with humanity and equanimity. His unique blend of Buddhism, Jungian therapy, and entrepreneurial know-how has made him a sought-after coach and leader, working with some of the largest firms in the country. In his work as a coach, he draws on his experience in Venture Capital (VC) as Co-founder of Flatiron Partners, one of the most successful, early-stage investment programs. Later, he was a partner with J.P. Morgan Partners (JPMP), the private equity arm of J.P. Morgan Chase. As a partner with J.P. Morgan Chase, Jerry launched the Financial Recovery Fund with The Partnership for the City of New York, a $10 million-plus program aimed at creating grants for small businesses impacted by the attacks on the World Trade Center. Along with a strong commitment to the nonprofit sector, Jerry is the author of two books: REBOOT: Leadership and the Art of Growing Up (2019) and REUNION: Leadership an Send us Fan Mail Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/poetsandthinkerspodcast/ Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/poets-thinkers/id1799627484 Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4N4jnNEJraemvlHIyUZdww?si=2195345fa6d249fd Send your ideas, feedback and guest recommendations to ben@poetsandthinkers.co

    42 min

  4. FEB 11

    Design Against Racism: On the myth of design’s neutrality, lack of critical thinking and the future of design leadership with Omari Souza

    In this episode, Ben sits down with Omari Souza, design researcher and professor, founder of the State of Black Design Conference, and author of his newly released book Design Against Racism. A first-generation American of Jamaican descent and first in his family to attend university, Omari brings a perspective shaped by being the sole Black male graduate in his design program—an experience that launched his career-defining investigation into where the Black designers are and why design has failed to serve marginalized communities. We discuss the failures of traditional business and design leadership and explore what a more equitable future vision looks like; and what can be done to make it a reality. Key Ideas: Design is not neutral—it amplifies the intentions of those who wield itThe myth of "design does no harm" vs. the reality that we don't teach measurement of harmHow Bauhaus borrowed heavily from West African art without acknowledgment or investmentIn-group/out-group dynamics: why men can't design equitable bathroom experiences for women (and why women can't design equitably for trans or disabled women without understanding their positionality)The danger of AI trained on information "limited in scope and perspective"Positionality mapping: understanding the intersections of identity that create blind spotsDesign at the extremes: solve for the greatest difficulties and greatest ease to shift the entire windowWhy business focus on shareholder profit prevents humane outcomesThe shift from profit to prosperity as a broader definition of successResources & References Design Against Racism by Omari Souza State of Black Design Conference  Africa to Bauhaus exhibit at the Smithsonian FastCompany article on Joe Gebbia as the United States’ Chief Design Officer Connect with Omari Souza Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/omari-souza-b483187/ Bio: Omari Souza is an assistant professor at the University of North Texas. He is the organizer of the State of Black Design Conference (online, April 2021). He previously organized and hosted an multi-panel event titled "The State of Black Design" (online, Sept. 2020), which drew a live audience of 2,071 — the second-largest livestream audience for an academic event in Texas State's history. Omari is a first-generation American of Jamaican descent, raised in the Bronx, New York. Before arriving at Texas State, he gained work experience with companies and institutions such as VIBE magazine, the Buffalo News, CBS Radio, and Case Western Reserve University. He earned a BFA in Digital Media from Cleveland Institute of Art and an MFA in Design from Kent State University. Omari's research explores the idea of perceptions and how visual narratives influence culture — how we view ourselves and others around us. Send us Fan Mail Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/poetsandthinkerspodcast/ Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/poets-thinkers/id1799627484 Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4N4jnNEJraemvlHIyUZdww?si=2195345fa6d249fd Send your ideas, feedback and guest recommendations to ben@poetsandthinkers.co

    46 min

  5. JAN 28

    Brain Hacking & Trauma-Informed Leadership: Creating space for human ingenuity to flourish with Christina Goldschmidt

    What if the only way to unlock ingenuity in our organizations is by showing up as authentic leaders who first and foremost know how to “hack their brain” and lead themselves? In this episode, Ben sits down with Christina Goldschmidt, VP of Product Design at Warner Music Group and adjunct professor at NYU Stern. With her deep understanding of neuroscience and trauma-informed leadership, Christina brings a radically different perspective on how to unlock human potential in the age of AI, and why the future of business leadership requires us to embrace our most human qualities. Christina’s vision for management is about understanding our unique cognitive patterns and building organizations where everyone can access their ingenuity. Key Ideas: Procrastination as brain chemistry: learning to induce creative pressure without the downsidesThree modes of problem-solving: dialogue, liminal spaces (showers!), and unconscious processingWhy trauma-informed leadership creates better outcomes for everyoneAuthenticity as permission: when leaders show up as themselves, teams can tooThe apprenticeship crisis: how automation is eliminating the grunt work that teaches skillsVision as the essential AI-age skill: knowing what you want before you can prompt for itCuriosity as the antidote to fear in times of rapid changeResources & References Dopamine Nation by Dr. Anna Lemke  Notes on Being a Man by Scott Galloway Connect with Christina Goldschmidt Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christinagoldschmidt/ Website: https://www.cgoldschmidt.com/ Send us Fan Mail Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/poetsandthinkerspodcast/ Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/poets-thinkers/id1799627484 Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4N4jnNEJraemvlHIyUZdww?si=2195345fa6d249fd Send your ideas, feedback and guest recommendations to ben@poetsandthinkers.co

    45 min

  6. JAN 14

    Against the Tyranny of Winners: On beautiful business in the AI age, the rise of “Supercuration”, and the end of efficiency with Tim Leberecht

    What if the future of business isn’t human at all—and maybe that’s exactly what will liberate us to become more humane? In this first episode of season 2, Ben sits down with Tim Leberecht, co-founder and CEO of the House of Beautiful Business, and author of The Business Romantic. Speaking from Istanbul, Tim doesn’t mince words: business is fundamentally broken, caught in an unholy alliance of technocracy, late-stage capitalism, and rising authoritarianism. Yet in this darkness, he sees the seeds of something radically different. Key Ideas: Business is hitting rock bottom—the perfect moment to imagine something radically differentThe false gods of modern management: optimization, efficiency, and winningWhy the future of business may not be human, but must remain humanistFrom economy of efficiency to economy of care and wonderSupercuration: the art of benevolent exclusion and caring for ideasThe death of agency and the birth of new forms of dignityWhy the only dignified work is the work we do for ourselves as artistsLove, care, and world-building as essential leadership qualitiesResources & References House of Beautiful Business – Global community humanizing business  The Business Romantic – Tim’s manifesto against optimization  Against the Tyranny of the Winners (published in German)  Supercuration – Forthcoming book on the art of curation  The Poly Opportunity – Series examining intersecting positive trends  Douglas Rushkoff on attention and human connection  Hartmut Rosa’s Resonance – Sociology of vibration and attunement  Gianpiero Petriglieri on love and leadership  Shoukei Matsumoto’s Work Like a Monk Connect with Tim Leberecht: Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tleberecht/ Website: https://timleberecht.com/ Company: https://houseofbeautifulbusiness.com/ Send us Fan Mail Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/poetsandthinkerspodcast/ Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/poets-thinkers/id1799627484 Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4N4jnNEJraemvlHIyUZdww?si=2195345fa6d249fd Send your ideas, feedback and guest recommendations to ben@poetsandthinkers.co

    53 min

  7. 09/17/2025

    The B******t Economy: How our obsession with control is making us sick with João Sevilhano

    What if our desperate need for certainty, predictability, and control is not making us safer but actually making us psychologically ill? In this episode of Poets & Thinkers, we explore the hidden pathology of modern life with João Sevilhano, a psychologist, business consultant, and philosopher whose work challenges the fundamental assumptions of how we organize society, education, and business. From his home in Lisbon during his summer break, João brings two decades of experience working at the intersection of psychology and corporate culture to reveal the deep contradictions in our pursuit of certainty. João takes us on a journey from ancient Greek concepts of human development to the modern “b******t economy” that rewards empty performance over substance. Drawing from his background as both a clinical psychologist who worked in psychiatric hospitals and a business consultant who helps organizations navigate change, he reveals how our educational systems, corporate structures, and even personal relationships have become organized around the illusion of control rather than the cultivation of wisdom. Through the lens of psychoanalysis and contemporary philosophy, João demonstrates how our inability to tolerate uncertainty is creating a society-wide pathology that distances us from our humanity. In our conversation, João challenges us to reconsider everything from how we raise children to how we structure organizations, arguing that our obsession with metrics, productivity, and predictable outcomes is creating “emotional bureaucrats” who have internalized corporate logic into their most intimate experiences. His vision for healing this syndrome involves embracing what he calls “useful uselessness” and rediscovering the ancient balance between suffering and growth that makes us fully human. In this thought-provoking discussion, we explore: Why psychopathology is proportional to our need for certainty and controlHow modern education systems prepare us for performance rather than wisdomThe shift from ancient Greek paideia to modern workforce preparationWhy we’ve created a “b******t economy” where empty words have market valueHow technology externalizes internal conflicts and stunts psychological developmentThe concept of "emotional bureaucrats" and the bureaucratization of intimacyWhy AI could either liberate us or deepen our disconnection from ourselvesThis episode is an invitation to examine the hidden costs of our certainty-obsessed culture and to consider what it might mean to build organizations and societies that honor the full complexity of human experience. Resources Mentioned The Certainty Syndrome essay by João Sevilhano  The B******t Economy essay by João Sevilhano Post Depth essay by João Sevilhano Byung-Chul Han’s philosophical works on modern burnout culture  The Permanent Crisis book on the decline of humanities education  House of Beau Send us Fan Mail Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/poetsandthinkerspodcast/ Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/poets-thinkers/id1799627484 Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4N4jnNEJraemvlHIyUZdww?si=2195345fa6d249fd Send your ideas, feedback and guest recommendations to ben@poetsandthinkers.co

    50 min

  8. 09/02/2025

    AI as Normal Technology: On superintelligence delusion, bogus claims and a humanistic AI future with Prof. Arvind Narayanan

    What if the race toward “superintelligence” is misguided and what does a more humanistic vision for AI adoption actually look like? In this episode of Poets & Thinkers, we dive deep into the intersection of artificial intelligence, culture, and human agency with Prof. Arvind Narayanan, a computer science professor at Princeton University whose work has fundamentally challenged how we think about AI’s role in society. Named on TIME’s inaugural list of 100 most influential people in AI, Arvind brings decades of research experience studying the gap between tech industry promises and real-world impacts. Arvind takes us beyond the hype and fear that dominates AI discourse, as we dive into his book “AI Snake Oil” (co-authored with Sayash Kapoor) and their latest essay titled “AI as Normal Technology” that draws powerful parallels to past general-purpose technologies like electricity and automobiles.  He reveals why the term “artificial intelligence” itself creates dangerous confusion, masking critical differences between predictive AI systems that are already affecting the lives of millions of people – determining who gets bail, healthcare coverage, and job opportunities – and generative AI tools like ChatGPT that capture public attention.  Through rigorous analysis of adoption patterns, organizational barriers, and historical societal precedent, Arvind demonstrates why superintelligence predictions fundamentally misunderstand both the nature of human intelligence and the complex realities of technological diffusion. In our conversation, Arvind challenges leaders to move beyond automation fantasies toward human-AI augmentation, explains why current AI benchmarks fail catastrophically at predicting real-world performance, and makes the case for why flexible, bottom-up innovation will determine which organizations thrive in the AI era. His perspective bridges computer science rigor with deep humanistic values, showing how thoughtful design and governance frameworks can help us navigate this transformation while keeping human agency at the center. This episode is a provocation to think more precisely about AI’s actual impacts, move beyond techno-optimism and techno-pessimism toward nuanced understanding, and focus on the practical frameworks needed to ensure this technology serves human flourishing. Resources Mentioned “AI Snake Oil” book by by Prof. Arvind Narayanan and Sayash Kapoor “AI is Normal Technology” essay by Prof. Arvind Narayanan and Sayash Kapoor Air Canada chatbot legal case as reported by The Guardian Everett Rogers’ work on technology adoption Send us Fan Mail Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/poetsandthinkerspodcast/ Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/poets-thinkers/id1799627484 Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4N4jnNEJraemvlHIyUZdww?si=2195345fa6d249fd Send your ideas, feedback and guest recommendations to ben@poetsandthinkers.co

    47 min
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Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
7 Ratings

About

Poets & Thinkers explores the humanistic future of business leadership through deep, unscripted conversations with visionary minds – from best-selling authors and inspiring artists to leading academic experts and seasoned executives. Hosted by tech executive, advisor, and Princeton entrepreneurship & design fellow Ben Lehnert, this podcast challenges conventional MBA wisdom, blending creative leadership, liberal arts, and innovation to reimagine what it means to lead in the AI era.  If you believe leadership is both an art and a responsibility, this is your space to listen, reflect, and evolve.

Information

  • Creator
    Benedikt Lehnert
  • Years Active
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodes
    21
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 2026 Benedikt Lehnert
  • Show Website
    Poets & Thinkers

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