Unboxing Social and Emotional Learning

Melvin Chan, Emma McMain, Tonje Molyneux, Adishi Gupta, Jinan El Sabbagh
  • 5.0 (1)
  • EDUCATION

  We are a group of friends, educators, and scholars (but hopefully not the gate-keeping kind) who use podcasting to speak critically, honestly, and open-mindedly about the excitements and concerns we have about social and emotional learning (SEL). What happens when sociality and emotionality, two things that have always been a part of learning, become seen as measurable in a world of marketized and self-managed education? How can we bust SEL out of any boxed-in definitions, and how might we unpack its complexity? Join us in asking questions without easy answers and taking the time to peel back layers of education that are often left undisturbed. Contact us at: unboxingselpodcast@gmail.com  

  1. DEC 18

    Season 2 Finale: An End to a Beginning

    In this final (for now) episode of Unboxing Social and Emotional Learning, we look back on the podcast project as a whole—sharing favorite moments, discussing recurrent themes, and imagining what may come next for the pod and for SEL. Listeners who have been with us since Season 1, Episode 1 may recall some of the quotes and moments we return to, and those listening for the first time may wish to go back and start from the beginning! As we explain with the episode title, the end to one thing is often the beginning to another. “SEL,” as we have expressed time and time again across our conversations, should not be seen as the be-all-end-all for learning to be social and emotional in a complicated world.  Participants: Melvin Chan, BSc, MA, York University Jinan El Sabbagh, PhD, Oklahoma State University Adishi Gupta, MA, Independent Scholar Emma McMain, PhD, University of Arkansas Tonje Molyneux, PhD, University of British Columbia Editor: Adam Engelbrecht References and Resources: McMain, E. M., Chan, M. C.-H., Edwards-Schuth, B., Molyneux, T., El Sabbagh, J., Gupta, A., & Engelbrecht, A. (Online First). Podcasting as a critical methodology: Reflections from a social and emotional learning podcast project. Cultural Studies ←→ Critical Methodologies. https://doi.org/10.1177/15327086251395813Montagne, A., Rousseau, C., & Gómez-Carrillo, A. (2026). The fine line between the cure and the illness: the risks of prescriptive emotionality and sociality for youth mental health. The Lancet Regional Health–Americas, 53. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanam/article/PIIS2667-193X(25)00321-7/fulltextClark, C. T., Chrisman, A., & Lewis, S. G. (2021). Using picturebooks to teach with and against social and emotional learning. Language Arts, 98(5), 246-259. https://doi.org/10.58680/la202131212The Master’s Tools Will Never Dismantle the Master’s House (Audre Lorde): https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/308596/the-masters-tools-will-never-dismantle-the-masters-house-by-lorde-audre/9780241339725Safir, S., Bagsik, M., Jaber, S., & Watson, C. M. (2026). Pedagogies of voice: Street data and the path to student agency. Corwin. https://pedagogiesofvoice.com/

    57 min

  2. DEC 3

    Embodying Empathy: Performing Arts and SEL - With Sharmila Miller

    In this conversation with Sharmila Miller, we learn about her experience as a drama teacher and anti-racism facilitator within education and performing arts. Sharmila shares how the process of teaching drama inherently involves engaging students with empathy, perspective taking, conflict resolution and problem solving skills. She also explains how she uses performing arts techniques for anti-racist education and facilitation. Through this fun and engaging dialogue, we are challenged to rethink formalized SEL education and reflect on the myriad ways sociality and emotionality are already embedded in the learning process. Participants: Adishi Gupta, MA, Independent Scholar Emma McMain, PhD, University of Arkansas Sharmila Miller, Drama & English Teacher, Maple Ridge, British Columbia (SD 42) Facilitator: Adishi Gupta Editor: Adam Engelbrecht References and Resources: Interdisciplinary Arts Academy at School District 42, British Columbia: https://www.sd42.ca/academy/interdisciplinary-arts/Dr. Sarah Fine, “Lessons in Powerful Learning from the Fringes”: https://www.humanrestorationproject.org/podcasts/lessons-in-powerful-learning-from-the-fringes-w-dr-sarah-fineAugusto Boal and Theatre of the Oppressed: https://www.britannica.com/biography/Augusto-BoalDifferent levels of racism framework: https://www.raceforward.org/what-racial-equity-0

    1 hr

  3. NOV 27

    Interconnected: Bringing an Ecological Perspective to SEL - With Drs. Shannon Wanless and Renee Owen

    In this episode of Unboxing SEL, Dr. Shannon Wanless and Dr. Renee Owen share insights from their article Evolving Transformative SEL with an Ecological Perspective. They trace their unique paths into SEL and explain why moving beyond individualistic approaches is essential for tackling inequity and climate injustice. Emphasizing interconnectedness, collective action, and care for the natural world, they highlight ways educators can weave this perspective into everyday practice without adding to their workload. It’s a warm, thought-provoking conversation that invites listeners to reimagine SEL as a shared journey toward personal, community, and environmental well-being. Participants: Jinan El Sabbagh, PhD, Oklahoma State University Emma McMain, PhD, University of Arkansas Tonje Molyneux, PhD, University of British Columbia Renee Owen, EdD, Southern Oregon University Shannon Wanless, PhD, University of PIttsburgh Facilitator: Tonje Molyneux Editor: Adam Engelbrecht References and Resources: “Evolving Transformative Social and Emotional Learning with an Ecological Perspective” (Renee Owen, Meena Srinivasan, and Shannon Wanless): https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2773233925000506Oregon Department of Education SEL site (dispositions): https://www.oregon.gov/ode/educator-resources/standards/sel/pages/default.aspx Transformative Educational Leadership: https://www.teleadership.org/Lisa Miller and The Spiritual Child: https://www.lisamillerphd.com/Rainbow Community School: https://rainbowcommunityschool.org/?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=21848063262&gbraid=0AAAAADRjSUXbLK8qKqepoA3EwtRXtbaTO&gclid=Cj0KCQjwndHEBhDVARIsAGh0g3Aa6JtWceMlTCe0UYSR0NPooEmXoLcgLziV_QnBScv9WxyyCe1DKIEaAjMfEALw_wcBSEE curriculum: https://seelearning.emory.edu/Sherri Mitchell and Sacred Instructions: https://www.sacredinstructions.life/Robin Wall Kimmerer and Indigenous Wisdom: https://www.robinwallkimmerer.com/David Sobel and The Holistic Educational Review: https://www.antioch.edu/faculty/david-sobel/ Teach for Climate Justice: A Vision for Transforming Education (Tom Roderick): https://hep.gse.harvard.edu/9781682538074/teach-for-climate-justice/Restoring the Kinship Worldview (Wahinkpe Topa/Four Arrows and Darcia Narvaez): https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/690771/restoring-the-kinship-worldview-by-wahinkpe-topa-four-arrows/Richie Davidson and the Upaya Zen Center: https://www.upaya.org/about/The Center for Holistic Education: https://centerforholisticeducation.org/

    51 min

  4. NOV 20

    In Conversation with the Restorative Justice Institute of Oklahoma - With Xavier Graves and Traci Gardner

    Unboxing SEL dives into conversation with Traci Gardner and Xavier Graves from the Restorative Justice Institute of Oklahoma (RJIOK) to learn about their work and vision toward promoting more just and equitable futures. Restorative justice, says Xavier, “is not the what, it’s the how we get there.” We discuss the overlaps between SEL and restorative justice, ending with the bittersweet hope that change can come if we are willing to reenvision our systems. From Traci: “I do believe human relationships can be healed and restored, given enough time and space. And I also believe we live in a society that does not make that time or space available to us. So just living in the both/and of that.”  Participants: Traci Gardner, Nurturer of Restorative Futures, RJIOK Xavier Graves, E.D., RJIOK Jinan El Sabbagh, PhD, Oklahoma State University Emma McMain, PhD, University of Arkansas Facilitator: Jinan El Sabbagh Editor: Adam Engelbrecht References and Resources: Internal Family Systems: https://ifs-institute.com/Cheryl Step, Creating Resilience: https://creatingresilience.org/index.htmlBettina Love, Punished for Dreaming: https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250280381/punishedfordreaming/The Social Relational Window: https://restorativeteachingtools.com/understanding-the-social-relational-window/CAR Model (Cue-Action-Response): https://thedecisionlab.com/reference-guide/psychology/car-modelUbuntu: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1HQKko_qRr4adrienne maree brown and Autumn Brown, “How to Survive the End of the World”: https://adriennemareebrown.net/podcast/how-to-survive-the-end-of-the-world/Dr. Sunita Sah: https://www.sunitasah.com/

    55 min

  5. NOV 13

    Educational Support and SEL - With Michaela Brain

    In this lively episode, Michaela Brain joins us to talk about her work as an educational assistant and support worker in British Columbia, Canada. Michaela shares her experiences with SEL instruction across a variety of educational settings including group homes, early childhood centres, learning centres, and elementary schools. We also discuss how SEL programming can be adapted for students with disabilities and what other supports these students (and their support staff) may need to thrive.  Participants: Michaela Brain, BA, Child and Youth Development Worker Melvin Chan, MA, York University Jinan El Sabbagh, PhD, Oklahoma State University Adishi Gupta, MA, Independent Scholar Emma McMain, PhD, University of Arkansas Tonje Molyneux, PhD, University of British Columbia Facilitator: Melvin Chan Editor: Adam Engelbrecht References and Resources: Everyday Speech: https://everydayspeech.com/Second Step SEL Program: https://www.secondstep.org/

    46 min

  6. NOV 6

    Restoring the Humanity of Social and Emotional Learning - With Chris McNutt

    Chris McNutt joins us for a transformative conversation about his work as the co-founder and executive director of Human Restoration Project, a nonprofit organization focused on truly listening to youth and reimagining school at a systems level. Chris shares what he has learned about SEL through ‘empathetic interviews’ with young people, and how schools might meaningfully engage with students’ wisdom rather than undermine it. “It’s simple,” he says, “but not easy.” Tune in for the full discussion! Participants: Melvin Chan, BSc, MA, York University Jinan El Sabbagh, PhD, Oklahoma State University Emma McMain, PhD, University of Arkansas Chris McNutt, Human Restoration Project Facilitator: Emma McMain Editor: Adam Engelbrecht References and Resources: About Human Restoration Project: https://www.humanrestorationproject.org/aboutEmpathy Interview Protocols: https://www.humanrestorationproject.org/resources/empathy-interview-protocolsStreet Data: A Next-Generation Model of Equity, Pedagogy, and School Transformation (Shane Safir and Jamila Dugan): https://www.corwin.com/books/street-data-271852?srsltid=AfmBOoqgo33XnGfKekuqfIaPEDFbbBUxs0KI9KLWRXT5MiDvHIwcp9A-#main-contentEquity-Centered Trauma-Informed Education (Alex Shevrin Venet): https://www.phoenixbooks.biz/book/9780393714739Deborah Meier and the Small Schools Movement: https://naeducation.org/member/deborah-meier/Zoe Weil and the Institute for Humane Education: https://humaneeducation.org/about-ihe/meet-zoe-weil/The Labor of Lunch (Jennifer Gaddis): https://www.ucpress.edu/books/the-labor-of-lunch/paperTransforming School Food Politics Around the World (Jennifer Gaddis): https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262548113/transforming-school-food-politics-around-the-world/

    1 hr

  7. OCT 30

    Season 2 Kickoff: The Past, Present, and Future of Unboxing Social and Emotional Learning

    After a hiatus following Season 1, we are back and more excited than ever to dive into the unboxing of social and emotional learning! We find ourselves in a social scene that is both new and not-new, when we consider the political tensions SEL is up against and our ongoing concerns about its ability to dismantle systems of oppression in locally situated ways. Join us on a trip down memory lane as we reflect on how this podcast first got started, who we were then, who we are now, and where we are going.  Participants: Melvin Chan, BSc, MA, York University Jinan El Sabbagh, PhD, Oklahoma State University Adishi Gupta, MA, Independent Scholar Emma McMain, PhD, University of Arkansas Tonje Molyneux, PhD, University of British Columbia Facilitator: Emma McMain Editor: Adam Engelbrecht References and Resources: El Sabbagh, J. (2021). “Move, play, regulate”: A critical ethnography of a community-based SEL curriculum’s transformative implications at a low-income public elementary school (Publication No. 10302) [Doctoral dissertation, Oklahoma State University]. ProQuest. https://www.proquest.com/docview/2663529983?pq-origsite=gscholar&fromopenview=true&sourcetype=Dissertations%20&%20ThesesHealth Promoting Schools (World Health Organization): https://www.who.int/health-topics/health-promoting-schools#tab=tab_1Hoffman, D. M. (2009). Reflecting on social emotional learning: A critical perspective on trends in the United States. Review of Educational Research, 79(2), 533-556. https://doi.org/10.3102/0034654308325184McMain, E. M., & Higheagle Strong, Z. (2020). Social emotional learning for social emotional justice: A conceptual framework for education in the midst of pandemics. Northwest Journal of Teacher Education, 15(2), 1-11. https://doi.org/10.15760/nwjte.2020.15.2.6Wellstream—The Canadian Centre for Innovation in Child & Youth Mental Health & Substance Use: https://wellstream.ca/

    1 hr

  8. MAR 5

    SEL and Politics

    Let’s talk politics! As SEL becomes increasingly situated in the midst of educational “culture wars” between the political left and right, we decided to devote an entire episode to discussing how this polarization has happened and what it means. Is SEL a “Trojan Horse for Critical Race Theory,” as some conservative groups argue? Is it an innocently “apolitical” phenomenon supported by an entirely objective research base? Tune in to follow our discussion about political non-negotiables, open-mindedness, and the tricky balance of making room for both. Participants: Melvin Chan, BSc, MA, York University Jinan El Sabbagh, PhD, Oklahoma State University Adishi Gupta, MA, University of British Columbia Emma McMain, PhD, Washington State University Tonje Molyneux, MEd, MA, University of British Columbia Facilitators: Tonje Molyneux and Emma McMain Editor: Adam Engelbrecht References: Buck, D. (2022, August 13). Conservatives are right to be skeptical of SEL. National Review. Retrieved from https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/08/conservatives-are-right-to-be-skeptical-of-sel/ Strambler, M. (2023, May 12). Open inquiry initiative: The intellectually honest case for social and emotional learning. Discourse Magazine. Retrieved from https://www.discoursemagazine.com/p/open-inquiry-initiative-the-intellectually-honest-case-for-social-and-emotional-learning

    58 min
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About

  We are a group of friends, educators, and scholars (but hopefully not the gate-keeping kind) who use podcasting to speak critically, honestly, and open-mindedly about the excitements and concerns we have about social and emotional learning (SEL). What happens when sociality and emotionality, two things that have always been a part of learning, become seen as measurable in a world of marketized and self-managed education? How can we bust SEL out of any boxed-in definitions, and how might we unpack its complexity? Join us in asking questions without easy answers and taking the time to peel back layers of education that are often left undisturbed. Contact us at: unboxingselpodcast@gmail.com  

Information

  • Creator
    Melvin Chan, Emma McMain, Tonje Molyneux, Adishi Gupta, Jinan El Sabbagh
  • Years Active
    2K
  • Episodes
    16
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 2025 Unboxing Social and Emotional Learning
  • Show Website
    Unboxing Social and Emotional Learning