Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom

Kim Miller - Hershon
  • 5.0 (5)
  • Entrepreneurship

Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom: Where clichés come to retire and fresh thinking we inspire. Smart minds don’t think alike—and that’s the point. Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom takes you inside the messy, brilliant, and bold thought processes of high-achieving leaders, entrepreneurs, and out-of-the-box thinkers. We skip the clichés and spotlight the real talk: the strange decisions that worked, the brilliant ideas that bombed, and the thought patterns that defy the rulebook—but still lead to growth, impact, and the occasional mic drop. If you’re tired of surface-level advice and crave the kind of wisdom that makes you pause, laugh, and level up—this is your new favorite listen. Because let’s face it: playing it safe never built anything worth bragging about.

  1. 1d ago

    Built to Finish: What 18 Ironmans Taught Him About Scaling and Selling a Company | Steven Pivnik

    In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Steve Pivnik, a successful entrepreneur who scaled his last company to 200-plus employees across 12 countries and executed a strategic exit to a $4 billion competitor using a disciplined, repeatable framework. That discipline was forged not only in the boardroom but through elite endurance challenges, including 18 Ironman triathlons and high-altitude mountaineering expeditions, including Everest. Steve is the best-selling author of Built to Finish, a keynote and TEDx speaker, and host of the Built to Finish podcast. Today he advises founders and CEOs on building companies intentionally designed not just to grow, but to finish strong through a strategic acquisition or investor recapitalization. His Ironman journey is its own story: a "midlife crisis" he started at 40 with no athletic background, chasing a 13-year goal of crossing the finish line at the Kona World Championship. In this conversation, Steve challenges the founder's most seductive belief: that because it's your company, you have to do the heavy lifting, be in every big sales call, own every big decision, the Superman complex. He learned, over many years, that the best way to scale is to remove yourself from those decisions, because that's when you unleash the business's true potential. He puts hard numbers on it: a founder who stays the hub of every spoke caps the company's valuation, while one who builds systems, delegation, and a real management team can double or triple it. The aha moment for his clients is that stepping back doesn't just free them from an 80-hour week with a laptop on every vacation, it makes the company worth more. That reframe sits right at the inflection point where Kim is often brought in, the moment a founder knows they need to stop being the bottleneck but can't actually execute the letting go. She and Steve are a natural complement, his data and strategy alongside her work on the psychology of releasing control and on leveling up the executives who were never allowed to make decisions independently. Steve's rule, from a mentor, is to delegate when someone is 70% ready rather than waiting for a 100% that never comes, and Kim adds the gut-check she can't resist: when you insist no one can do it as well as you, is that true, or is it your ego, and are you making someone else wrong to avoid letting go of something it's time to release? They agree servant leadership works only with the right cadence, because somebody still has to draw the line and say "that's not my job, it's yours." Steve is refreshingly candid about what people assume he had that he didn't. His LinkedIn shows a Harvard credential (an online course he took after the exit), but he's a proud college dropout from the school of hard knocks, and his company was bootstrapped from day one with not a dollar of outside funding. He left school not out of rebellion but because his family hit hard times and his mother, unimpressed by a four-year business degree, pointed her "computer nerd" toward a downtown Manhattan mainframe programming course, a get-out-of-jail-free card he happily took. It leads into a shared riff with Kim on how traditional education rewards one narrow kind of intelligence, illustrated by her son who could see the answer instantly but got failed for not documenting a "process" he didn't consciously have. His biggest leadership challenge is one he calls endemic and hates discussing because it's personal to others: founder loyalty to the people who built the company with them. The best friend, cousin, or uncle who ran sales or finance from day one deserves enormous credit, but often can't run the organization at the level it's grown to. For the key roles, he argues, you need someone who has already run an org at double your current size, because it'll be a cakewalk for them versus a struggle for your loyal early hires. Kim adds the humane counterpoint from her coaching: those people are usually miserable being in over their heads, and giving them permission to make a better decision for themselves lets them leave with dignity, choosing the exit rather than waiting for the other shoe to drop. His unconventional growth habit is the realization that he doesn't have all the answers, becoming coachable after years of "my way or the highway." Kim's favorite reframe lands the point: being open to coaching isn't a sign you're failing, it's what LeBron James, Serena Williams, and Patrick Mahomes do, top performers surround themselves with many coaches. Both of them have coaches, both practice what they preach, and both agree that if you're fantastic at one thing you're almost certainly lacking in another. On imposter syndrome, Steve is honest that it hits every time he's about to walk on stage, the "why me?" backstage, until he reminds himself he earned the spot and gives himself a pep talk. Kim's addition ties the whole hour together: the nerves mean you care, and the cure is remembering the message was never about you, you're just the vessel, so make the audience the hero. His closing charge is pure Steve: if a self-described couch-potato college dropout can build and sell a company and finish the Ironman World Championship, nothing should stop anyone from setting a big, hairy, audacious goal and going after it. This episode explores: Why the founder's Superman complex caps growthHub-and-spoke architecture and what it does to your valuationHow stepping back can double or triple what your company is worthDelegating at 70% ready instead of waiting for a 100% that never comesThe ego question: is it really true no one can do it as well as you?Servant leadership with the right cadence, and knowing when to draw the lineBootstrapping to a $4 billion exit as a college dropoutWhy traditional education rewards only one kind of intelligenceThe hardest call: outgrowing the loyal early team in key rolesWhy the person who's outgrown their role is usually miserableLetting people leave with dignity by choosing the exit themselvesBecoming coachable, and why top performers have many coachesBeating stage-fright imposter syndrome by making the audience the heroSetting big, hairy, audacious goals and starting before you're readyIf you're a founder, endurance athlete, or anyone sitting on a goal that feels too big, this conversation offers practical insight, honest talk about letting go and imposter syndrome, and a refreshing case that you were built to finish. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershonNewsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=PodcastGuest Details: Guest: Steve PivnikBook: Built to FinishFocus: Advises founders and CEOs on building companies intentionally designed to finish strong through a strategic acquisition or investor recapitalization; scaled and sold his last company (200+ employees, 12 countries) to a $4 billion competitor; keynote and TEDx speaker, host of the Built to Finish podcast, 18-time Ironman and Everest mountaineer Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

    Built to Finish: What 18 Ironmans Taught Him About Scaling and Selling a Company | Steven Pivnik

  2. 4d ago

    The Quiet Advantage: How Introverts Lead and Sell on Their Own Terms | Jennifer Kelly

    In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Jennifer Kelly, founder of New Initiatives Marketing, a B2B marketing firm that works with mid-market, mostly technical companies to build strategies, systems, and sales enablement programs that turn marketing into a revenue engine. With deep corporate experience at the Financial Times, Siemens, and Motorola, Jen brings real expertise in technical, industrial, and consulting engineering firms. She's based in Toronto and, given a hypothetical year off with no money concerns, would spend it getting better at polo, the first polo player Kim has ever interviewed. In this conversation, Jen challenges two pieces of conventional wisdom loudly at once. The first, and the thread that anchors the whole episode, is that you have to be an extrovert to lead a business. Growing up with an entrepreneur father who was a huge personality, she absorbed the message that to be good at business you had to be like him, and since she wasn't, she quietly counted herself out for years, until a layoff pushed her into running her own company. It's flatly untrue, she says: introverts often do sales better, because observing and listening more than you talk is exactly what wins the right partners, deals, and hires. The second is the worship of revenue. The business press celebrates ever-bigger top-line numbers, but running a company taught her the number that actually matters is profit. Jen is candid that the thing people assume she has nailed, client service, is exactly what has no formula, because every client is different and the right approach can shift mid-contract as their business or their sponsor changes. Some want weekly reports, some want quarterly check-ins, some only want to hear from you when something's wrong. Kim offers her go-to tool: ask up front what success looks like six months out, because most unmet expectations are ones the client never articulated, and you only discover them when you've already missed. They range from there into defining vague standards like a "no a*****e policy" (is a blunt high-D driver an a*****e, or the passive-aggressive one?) and the hard truth that in client service you have to read between the lines, because sometimes you get fired over something no one ever told you. On imposter syndrome, Jen is clear about when it strikes, going after a bigger client than she's served before, and the voice of "who do we think we are?" Her fix is simply naming it, because once she can call it imposter syndrome she can talk herself off the ledge and go for it anyway. Kim adds the neutralizing thought she loves: you already don't have that business, so a no leaves you exactly where you started, which makes the only real question how many rooms you've talked yourself out of walking into. This episode explores: Why profit, not revenue, is the number that mattersGiving introverts guardrails instead of telling them to changeBuilding on strengths rather than reinforcing weaknessesWhy client service has no formula and stays bespokeDefining vague standards like a "no a*****e policy"Reading between the lines in client relationshipsThe core AI question: wrap the old machine or rebuild it entirelyWhy a leader's vision caps how far the company can goWhy junior-plus-AI can't replace hard-won judgmentDesigning services for profitability from the startFlat subscription billing that kills timesheet stressIf you're a founder, marketer, or self-identified introvert who's ever counted themselves out, this conversation offers practical insight, honest talk about AI and imposter syndrome, and a refreshing case that you get to lead exactly as who you are. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershonNewsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=PodcastGuest Details: Guest: Jen Kelly, Founder, New Initiatives MarketingFocus: B2B marketing strategy, systems, and sales enablement for mid-market technical, industrial, and consulting engineering firms; based in TorontoWebsite: https://www.newinitiativesmarketing.comLinkedIn (Jen): https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenniferkelly/LinkedIn (New Initiatives Marketing): https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-initiatives-marketing/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

    The Quiet Advantage: How Introverts Lead and Sell on Their Own Terms | Jennifer Kelly

  3. Sep 11

    From Filmmaker to Brand Strategist: The Simple Formula for Standing Out and Never Quitting | Jake Isham

    In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Jake Isham, a filmmaker turned brand strategist who helps founders and entrepreneurs turn their expertise into authority through powerful storytelling. Over the past decade he's worked with more than 150 entrepreneurs and companies, including Grant Cardone, Callaway, 5.11 Tactical, and Travis Mathew, creating content that's generated over a billion views online. Jake combines a filmmaking background with deep marketing strategy to help B2B leaders cut through the noise, build trust, increase visibility, and become omnipresent across platforms. The son of two artists, a musician father and a painter mother, he grew up in a house where every kid was encouraged to build a career doing whatever they wanted, and all four of them became artists. In this conversation, Jake reframes the very premise of the question, since he was never handed conventional business wisdom at all, only "just figure it out." What he was given was his father's rock-solid framework, so simple it took him years to fully grasp: produce, promote, persist. Produce the work (art is an industry where you prove you can do it before you get paid to), promote it relentlessly because there's more noise than ever, and persist, because the only way to lose in business is to throw in the towel. Kim adds the piece she wants underlined: persistence isn't just doing the same thing louder, you have to improve, and Jake agrees, describing how he pays editors to spend three to five times as long on one in seven videos precisely so they'll experiment, learn a new effect, and fail, because that's the only way to beat the competition. That creative philosophy runs through the whole hour. Jake's mantra is 1% improvement every day to reach the 1%, whatever "the 1%" means to you, whether it's cooking, filming, sales calls, or being a parent. He and Kim bond over the artist's curse of wanting it perfect before it's finished, and Jake's fix is simple: you can't know if something works until you put it in the world and get feedback, so ship it and save the "next time I'll do it two hours longer" note for yourself. He's also generous with the idea that everyone is creative, the salesperson who dresses sharp, the person who plates a meal, all of it is living artistically, even if you never pick up a brush. On imposter syndrome, Jake shares the best explanation he's heard, from Alex Hormozi: you only feel it when you're lying, speaking on things you haven't actually done. His fix is to talk only about what he's genuinely achieved, "this is how you make a short film in a weekend" (he's made 25 short films, four in one weekend), not "this is how you make a feature," which he hasn't. If you can't yet speak to what would attract the clients you want, either shift the clients or get better. He and Kim close on the metric that actually matters, using his viral-dog-video cautionary tale: a million views mean nothing if they're the wrong views, and the businesses winning with a few thousand engaged followers prove that the right audience beats a big one every time. This episode explores: Produce, promote, persist as a framework for any businessWhy persistence requires improvement, not just repetitionPaying people to experiment and fail so they actually get better1% improvement every day to reach "the 1%"Shipping before it's perfect, because feedback is the only real testWhy outward success never matches the internal reality"PR" as perceived reality: what you post is how people know youRecruiting the right people at the right price as a founder's hardest jobLearning the whole business, not just the craft you came fromApprenticing every function so you never ask what you couldn't doBeating imposter syndrome by only speaking on what you've achievedShifting your clientele or leveling up when you can't yet claim resultsJake's perspective is a powerful reminder that the fundamentals of a creative career and a thriving business are the same, produce the work, promote it honestly, and persist while getting a little better every day. His journey from an artist's household to a brand strategist behind a billion views shows that authenticity isn't at odds with promotion, and that the surest cure for imposter syndrome is simply doing the work until you've earned the right to speak on it. If you're a founder, creative, or small-business owner trying to build authority without faking it, this conversation offers practical insight, honest talk about social media and imposter syndrome, and a refreshing case that you don't need a million views, you need the right ones. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershonNewsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=PodcastGuest Details: Guest: Jake IshamFocus: Filmmaker turned brand strategist; helps founders and B2B leaders build authority through storytelling and content; clients have included Grant Cardone, Callaway, 5.11 Tactical, and Travis Mathew (content generating over 1 billion views)Website: https://www.jakeisham.comEmail: Jake@JakeIsham.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

    From Filmmaker to Brand Strategist: The Simple Formula for Standing Out and Never Quitting | Jake Isham

  4. Sep 8

    A Law Firm for Risk Takers: Finding Your Own Path to Success | Pankaj Raval

    In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Pankaj Raval, founder of Carbon Law Group, "the law firm for deal makers and risk takers," where he brings over 15 years of experience in business law, trademarks, and copyrights. Pankaj focuses on reducing friction and aligning legal strategy with business goals so entrepreneurs can focus on scaling, and he's an entrepreneur and innovator in his own right, which Kim notes makes him all the more credible. He's also a lifelong dancer who once memorized The Way You Make Me Feel off the Moonwalker video, won a karaoke contest, and took his mom to Michael Jackson's 30th anniversary concert in New York. In this conversation, Pankaj challenges the piece of conventional wisdom drilled into every law student: that success means landing the big firm job, the prestige, the shiny paycheck. Graduating into the worst legal market in history in 2009, with offers being rescinded across the industry, he never got that path, and now calls it one of the best things that could have happened. It forced him to figure out something else, and when his mother suffered an aneurysm, the scare crystallized that life is short and he had to chase what would actually make him happy. Rather than spend $150,000 on an MBA, he invested that money in himself, moved to LA, and built his own firm. Years later, some of the friends who took the big-firm route ended up working for him. A defining thread is how Pankaj learned to hear his own truth over the constant external noise: meditation and mindfulness. His first five-day silent retreat in law school left him more grounded and aware of his own thought patterns than ever, and nine or ten retreats and a near-daily practice later, he credits it with his ability to navigate the emotional weight of law and entrepreneurship, saying flatly he wouldn't still be practicing without it. Kim shares her own newer, unmissed 10-minute morning practice, and they land on the same encouragement: if you can't get ten minutes, get two, if not two, get one. Pankaj has woven it into the firm itself, opening every Monday meeting with a five-minute team meditation and building a related venture, Mindful Counsel, around integrating mindfulness into how businesses operate. Pankaj and Kim dig into the honest work of letting go, on multiple fronts. He's candid that no one really has it all figured out, that experience is earned through scary trial and error, and that he wants to dispossess anyone of the notion that he's got it all together. They talk about the seasons of life and radical acceptance of the present moment, about giving people grace because you never know what they're carrying, and about the hard decisions leaders avoid: holding onto the wrong-fit client or employee too long, which Pankaj admits stalled his firm's growth. Making space, he argues, is what lets new opportunities in. Kim frames the reframe as her own superpower, helping people reconcile an identity ("I'm a nice guy") with the hard action ("I need to let this person go"). His biggest current leadership challenge is the classic growth inflection: wearing too many hats and, harder still, giving away the client work he genuinely loves so he can work on the business instead of in it. Kim names it a happy problem, and they're honest about the fear underneath, if I'm not practicing law, what's my identity, and will the firm's quality hold? Pankaj ties it to a bigger priority: with kids who are three and six, being present for dinner and school pickup is the real wealth, and he's at peace with the trade-off if it means fewer offices. He and Kim celebrate how much that generational shift in fatherhood has changed ("is your husband babysitting?" versus co-parenting), and Kim testifies that the gift of presence pays off, her three grown kids now live minutes away and know exactly what they were given. His most unconventional growth habit, especially for a lawyer, is coaching. Working with a business coach from the start helped him think outside the box, reduce friction, and leverage technology to speed up the firm. And a life coach's simple question, "why can't you charge what the big firms bill for someone like you?", surfaced the imposter syndrome behind his low rates. As he raised them, clients respected his time and his advice more, not less, because charging too little signals you don't believe in your own value. Kim's old homework for clients was saying their rate in the mirror until the physical flinch disappeared. Pankaj ties it all to resilience against rejection and the endless unlearning of society's message that you're not enough, closing on the line that captures the whole show: we don't need more things, we need more people to come alive. This episode explores: Why the big-firm dream isn't the only definition of legal successHow graduating into a terrible market forced a better pathInvesting in yourself instead of spending on the credentialMeditation and silent retreats as the tool for hearing your own truthIf you can't get ten minutes, get two: starting a practice anywhereBuilding mindfulness into how a firm actually operatesRadical acceptance and appreciating the season you're inGiving people grace because you never know what they carryWhy holding onto the wrong-fit client or employee stalls growthMaking space so new opportunities can arriveThe growth inflection: working on the business, not just in itPresence with your kids as the real measure of wealthCoaching as an unconventional edge, even for lawyersWhy charging too little signals you don't value yourselfBuilding resilience to rejection and unlearning "you're not enough"Pankaj's perspective is a powerful reminder that the unconventional path, the one you choose by listening to yourself instead of the crowd, often leads somewhere far better than the prestigious default. His journey from a rescinded-offer market to a thriving, mindfulness-driven firm shows that reducing friction, believing in your own value, and staying present are not soft ideas, they're how you build a business and a life that actually feels like yours. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershonNewsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=PodcastGuest Details: Guest: Pankaj Raval, Founder, Carbon Law Group ("the law firm for deal makers and risk takers")Focus: Business law, trademarks and copyrights (national and international), startup formation and governance, IP protection; also founder of Mindful CounselWebsite: https://carbonlg.com/capital-raise-counsel/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

    A Law Firm for Risk Takers: Finding Your Own Path to Success | Pankaj Raval

  5. Sep 4

    Have I Achieved Enough?" A Lawyer's Honest Reframe on Success and Having It All | Krista Mitzel

    For the 100th episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon does something fitting: she brings back her very first guest, friend and colleague Krista Mitzel of The Mitzel Group. Krista is an employment lawyer who runs a boutique firm providing advice and counsel to companies, and she's been practicing for over 25 years, the last 17 of them at the helm of her own firm. If you loved the first episode, this one expands on it, a conversation between two people who know each other well about what a year of growth, reflection, and reprioritizing has taught them. In this conversation, Krista challenges a piece of conventional wisdom pressed on women, and especially blonde, tall, outgoing women, in the legal profession: tone it down, downplay yourself, don't be "too much." Early in her career, two female partners pulled her aside not to critique her work, which was excellent, but to warn her that being attractive and gregarious "could be perceived the wrong way." She'd shown up in a sweater set, hidden nothing, and done her job, and the encounter was her first real look at the sexism baked into the industry, delivered as warning rather than mentorship. It's part of why she left that firm and vowed that when she made it, she'd never tell a woman to shrink. The heart of this milestone episode is a year of deep self-reflection. At 48, with her business grown, her boys in middle school, her mother's health declining, and friends navigating their own hard seasons, Krista has been reprioritizing where her time and energy go. She's arrived somewhere quietly radical for a self-described Type A entrepreneur: she's done enough, achieved enough, and no longer needs to be critical of herself for not achieving more. Nobody on their deathbed wishes they worked more, she says, and when Kim's old challenge ("what would happen if you 10Xed your business?") comes up, Krista recounts running the math in her head and realizing the trade, the travel and energy and time away from her kids, simply wasn't worth it. The reframe wasn't about capacity. It was about creating the life she actually wants. Krista and Kim dig into the discipline of rewriting your own story, a thread that runs through the whole hour. We solve problems from wherever our unconscious beliefs have already hardened, Kim notes, which is why it takes real mindfulness to challenge your own baseline, and Krista adds that it's scary to ask "how could I do this differently?" or "why did that client fire me?" because getting the information means confronting yourself. Both land on treating feedback as data: the packaging may be off, the person delivering it may be a pain, and there's still probably something in it for you. Krista's version of "come to the conversation with curiosity" pairs with a hard question worth asking whenever you're offended, why does this land so hard, is it because it might be true, or because you're hearing your mother in the background? She's candid about the leadership mistake it took her years to see: as an auditory processor who thinks out loud, she'd excitedly share every idea from every conference, not realizing her team heard each one as a change of plans. The fix was a deliberate system, a "parking lot" for ideas and just one or two real initiatives a quarter, because a team all rowing in the same direction gets there faster, and you can't change too many things at once for people who process differently. She's also worked to correct an overcorrection toward hands-off management, learning to be explicit about client communication and expectations without micromanaging, and to have the hard cost conversation with a client before the big invoice lands, because it's better not to do the work than not to get paid. Drawing on decades of watching companies handle their worst people problems, Krista offers the episode's most striking insight: everyone brings their childhood to work, leaders included. The reason people get sued, she argues, is that personalities collide and someone's old fear gets triggered, and she can spot a mile away who's told themselves a story that the world is out to get them. The answer isn't a one-size-fits-all management style but leading to each person's style, setting clear and fair boundaries, knowing your own gaps, and getting help (a partner or a coach) to balance them. On imposter syndrome and ambition, she's clear that constantly telling yourself you haven't done enough has nothing to do with ambition and everything to do with self-flagellation, and that the little wins, a good lunch, a kid's hug, everyone out the door without a fight, are what actually build a sense of peace. This episode explores: Why "tone it down" is a warning women get dressed up as mentorshipRefusing to tell other women to shrink themselvesHaving it all, just not all at the same time, and reprioritizing your timeDeciding you've achieved enough, and why the 10X trade wasn't worth itRewriting the stories your unconscious has already hardenedTreating feedback as data even when the packaging is offAsking why a comment offends you before reacting to itThe leadership cost of thinking out loud, and the "parking lot" fixOne or two initiatives at a time so the team rows togetherCorrecting from hands-off to appropriately involved without micromanagingHaving the hard cost conversation before the invoiceWhy everyone brings their childhood to work, leaders includedLeading to each person's style instead of forcing yoursWhy chronic "not enough" is self-flagellation, not ambitionThe little wins that build real peaceKrista's perspective is a powerful reminder that a full life comes with its stuff, that Instagram's rosy picture is never the whole story, and that most people are genuinely doing their best. Her evolution from Kim's first guest to her 100th-episode guest, more grounded, more peaceful, and more sure that she's lived a good life, shows that the bravest work a leader does is on their own story, and that being yourself was never the thing to apologize for. If you're a leader, professional, or anyone measuring yourself against a scoreboard that no longer fits, this milestone conversation offers real depth, honest talk about ambition and imposter syndrome, and a refreshing case that the little things matter more than the boxes you thought you had to check. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershonNewsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=PodcastGuest Details: Guest: Krista Mitzel, Founder, The Mitzel GroupFocus: California employment law; advice and counsel for companies; boutique firm (also Kim's first-ever podcast guest, back for the 100th episode)LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristamitzel/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

    Have I Achieved Enough?" A Lawyer's Honest Reframe on Success and Having It All | Krista Mitzel

  6. Sep 1

    Your Job Title Isn't Who You Are: Rethinking Success and Self-Worth | Minyang Jiang

    In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Minyang "MJ" Jiang, chief strategy officer at Credibly, where she leads and implements the company's growth strategy alongside the executive team, overseeing more than 30 employees across marketing and sales and carrying responsibility for revenue generation. Before Credibly, MJ spent over eight years at Ford Motor Company in marketing, sales, and corporate strategy roles, and founded and ran GoRide Health, a Ford mobility startup serving underserved populations in medical transportation. She graduated top of her class at Harvard with a BA in literature and holds an MBA in marketing and operations from Wharton. Given any superpower, she'd choose to speak any human or animal language at will, because nothing is more disarming than showing someone you cared enough to learn how to talk to them. In this conversation, MJ challenges a piece of conventional wisdom that runs most of the early career game: that success means becoming the optimal version of whatever the environment rewards. Straight out of her MBA, she measured herself entirely by external validation, promotions, raises, rankings, grades, and she's skeptical of anyone who claims they didn't need that early on. What shifted is the question she now hands to people who ask how she got where she is. That's the wrong question, she says. The real one is "What kind of person do I want to be?" Answer that (knowing it comes in multiple drafts) and you can choose the path that moves you toward that person, instead of letting external validation quietly stand in for your self-worth and carry you further and further from meaning. One of the episode's richest threads is MJ's defense of self-doubt. People read her as confident, even intimidating, and she owns being smart and competent without shrinking herself to make others comfortable. But she insists she doesn't have it all figured out, and that self-doubt is healthy because it holds up a mirror to your deepest insecurities. Her sharpest insight: the most powerful insecurities often present as self-assurance, because they protect a core belief about who you are, so when they're challenged you'll fight to the death to deny them. Catching that in yourself, noticing when your mind flicks something away too easily or you have an answer too fast, is what lets you know when to trust your own judgment and when to seek people who really know you. Kim adds her own version: a big reaction to someone else is a mirror worth turning back on yourself, paired with the humble reminder, "who died and made you God?" On imposter syndrome, MJ is honest that it surfaces most when she's acted with genuinely good intent, only to be told she's misunderstood, and part of her wants to scream "how long have you known me?" The lesson she's learned is not to lash out, to sit with the hurt, and to borrow her kids' openness, the trepidation-but-still-going-for-it curiosity adults tend to lose. Her closing thought lands the whole episode: you're not strong because of how you feel, you're strong because of what you do. The act reinforces the belief, not the other way around, and simply showing up when it's heavy is already proof you're capable. This episode explores: The artificial constructs we hang behind our names Building your own boundaries versus living inside predefined ones Why self-doubt is healthy and a mirror to your insecurities How the deepest insecurities disguise themselves as confidence Turning a big reaction into a mirror on yourself Giving grace to others as a way of giving grace to yourself Why change management means honoring the internal process, not just executing Why "what does success look like" is so hard when it's about humans Attention as the scarcest resource, and why you can't scale time The mind grows during rest, like a muscle Ignoring the first three answers and digging to bedrock Sitting with being misunderstood instead of lashing out "You're strong because of what you do, not how you feel" MJ's perspective is a powerful reminder that confidence and self-doubt aren't opposites, that the questions worth asking are rarely the obvious ones, and that the person you're becoming matters more than any title behind your name. Her path from Harvard and Ford to leading strategy at a growing company shows that the leaders worth trusting are the ones brave enough to be alone with their own thoughts, honest about what they don't know, and willing to show up and do the hard thing before they believe they can. If you're a leader, strategist, or anyone measuring yourself by someone else's scoreboard, this conversation offers real depth, honest talk about self-doubt and imposter syndrome, and a refreshing case that strength is built by what you do, not by how you feel. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details: Guest: Minyang "MJ" Jiang, Chief Strategy Officer, Credibly Focus: Growth strategy, marketing, sales, and revenue leadership; former Ford Motor Company strategy leader and founder of GoRide Health LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/minyang-jiang-6981a148/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

    Your Job Title Isn't Who You Are: Rethinking Success and Self-Worth | Minyang Jiang

  7. Aug 28

    How to Build Success on Your Own Terms — Not Someone Else's Playbook | Joshua Lee

    In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Joshua Lee, founder of First Light Studios, an Amazon and ecommerce growth agency that helps legacy brand owners bring their products online with integrity and impact. Josh works with business owners who have built trusted brands over decades and earned their place on retail shelves at REI, Walgreens, and CVS, but haven't yet cracked the code for Amazon, Walmart.com, or social shopping. His team helps those businesses protect their legacy while expanding online the right way. A self-described deep thinker still in his mid-30s, Josh is so locked in on leadership that when Kim asks for an irrational hill he'd die on, he keeps accidentally answering with rational leadership wisdom instead. In this conversation, Josh challenges a piece of conventional wisdom handed to him at 18 by a Fortune-company CEO who mentored him for a year: work for big companies early, climb the ladder, get taken under the right wings. He followed it, and now wishes he'd started the entrepreneurship he always wanted sooner. Given how scrappy, frugal, and creative he'd learned to be growing up, he'd have figured it out anyway, and the corporate processes that once required an insider seat can now be learned online or by shadowing people for free. What he wishes the CEO had said instead was to find a great leader and emulate them up close, because watching how someone spends a 24-hour day, meeting to meeting, in their actual energy, is a return no book or documentary can match. Josh is candid that what people mistake for having it all figured out is really just the season he's in. Life ebbs and flows through milestones, he says, and how someone looks tells you nothing about whether their life is all good, because struggle is the actual design of life, the way you prove to yourself you can do hard things so you can go on to do harder ones. He and Kim dig into happiness as a false end game (you couldn't recognize it without hardship to compare it to) and land on the philosophy at the foundation of Kim's whole coaching practice: you're responsible for yourself. You can't control what happens to you, but you get to decide whether you're a victim or a survivor, and what story you tell yourself about it. On his most unconventional growth habit, Josh points to slowing down and spending time alone, which he's found more productive than doing the work. Every morning before 6, he meditates, reads scripture and a devotional, works a science-based plan for rewiring his unconscious, and hits what he calls the mental gym, then unwinds and documents what he learned at night. The point is to quiet the noise of endless Zoom calls and social comparison so he can actually hear what he wants and remind himself who he's becoming, because you have to be still to know your purpose, and you have to protect it. It circles back to the quote he'd read that morning, from Jim Rohn: for things to change, you must change; for things to get better, you must get better. This episode explores: Why guarding your finite energy can beat pursuing "justice" you're owed Wishing you'd started sooner instead of climbing someone else's ladder Emulating a great leader up close as the real return on your time Unlearning the "if I miss a step I've failed" sequencing anxiety Why conventional rules can put guardrails on creative problem-solving Why a mentor's roadmap is theirs, and you have to build your own Reading success as a season, not a permanent state Why you can't grow without struggle, and happiness needs contrast "You're responsible for yourself": victim or survivor is a choice Overriding the subconscious 85% with intentional action Catching the story you tell yourself and owning your own part Not dying on hills that aren't even yours Writing down expectations instead of assuming people just know Why you can spark motivation but can't hand someone their hunger Slowing down and going still to hear your own purpose Josh's perspective is a powerful reminder that so much of growth is unlearning: the borrowed roadmaps, the sequencing anxiety, the belief that how things look is how they are. His journey from an 18-year-old following a CEO's advice to a founder who builds businesses and himself on his own terms shows that stillness, self-responsibility, and the humility to keep learning will take you further than anyone else's definitive answer. If you're a founder, leader, or anyone wrestling with someone else's blueprint for success, this conversation offers practical insight, genuine depth, and a refreshing case that for things to get better, you get to be the one who changes. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details: Guest: Joshua Lee, Founder, First Light Studios Focus: Amazon and ecommerce growth agency helping legacy brand owners expand online (Amazon, Walmart.com, social shopping) while protecting their brand Website: https://flstudios.website LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/onejoshualee/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

    How to Build Success on Your Own Terms — Not Someone Else's Playbook | Joshua Lee

  8. Aug 25

    Hire Slow, Pay Up, Build on Strengths: The Truth About Great Hiring | Alec Broadfoot

    In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Alec Broadfoot, who leads VisionSpark, a boutique consulting firm that has successfully completed over 200 "number two leader" searches for entrepreneurial companies, many of them running EOS (the Entrepreneurial Operating System), plus dozens of searches for other key team members at a 98 percent placement rate. VisionSpark has landed on the Inc. 5000 list of the fastest-growing companies in the country three years running, in 2023, 2024, and 2025, and Alec is the author of the Amazon number one bestseller Hire Your Right Number 2 Leader. He'd also, given a random stage at the wrong conference, happily talk about the finer points of doubles tennis. In this conversation, Alec challenges a piece of conventional wisdom drilled into most ambitious people early: that success means shoring up your weaknesses and being all things to all people. He learned it doesn't work, because when you pour yourself into your weaknesses, all you get is stronger weaknesses. Lean into your strengths instead and you can actually make a difference. Kim ties it straight to the productivity coaching she does, where people can recite every way they procrastinate but never stop to ask what their process looks like when things go well, the very thing they're naturally good at and could build on instead of hunting for an external fix. His most unconventional growth habit cuts against nearly all standard business advice: he built VisionSpark entirely without debt, bootstrapping it and even buying out his early partner without taking on an equity partner either. That partnership split becomes one of the episode's most useful stories, because it wasn't about anyone being a bad partner. Once they adopted EOS, it surfaced that they simply wanted different things, his partner wanted to go deep as a hands-on consultant with a select few clients, while Alec wanted to help entrepreneurial companies all over the country. Two valid visions, no villain, which is exactly why parting made sense. What he's proudest of is the team and culture he's built, and a reputation as a genuine partner in an industry too often lumped in with used-car salesmen, backed by the raving-fan loyalty a high Net Promoter Score reflects. On imposter syndrome, Alec is honest that it shows up most before he speaks, whether it's a keynote, a workshop, or even his own employees, in the procrastination and self-doubt of the days leading up to it. His fix is to remember the outcome of past talks, how much people valued them and how many decisions they helped, and to open with his why story so the audience meets his heart rather than a pitch. That why story is the origin of the whole company: two decades ago, running a thriving mailing and printing business, he was firing seven out of ten hires until a mentor asked whether he used any data or assessments. He didn't. Once he did, he started retaining seven of ten instead, and the day an assessment perfectly predicted a hire he'd have made on interview charm alone, and then watched it come true, he decided "never again," sold his interest, and eventually founded VisionSpark to help entrepreneurs hire great leaders with science and data instead of gut feel. This episode explores: Why working on your weaknesses just gives you stronger weaknesses Building on strengths, and studying your process when things go well Why an A player at 10-20% more pay is better than free Seeing a great hire as opportunity and ROI, not just expense Questioning the tidy-desk-equals-productivity rule Why a partnership can end over different visions, with no villain Building a partner-level reputation in a distrusted industry What Net Promoter Score really measures: raving fans and trust Owning your own decision delays as a leader and inviting the nudge Beating speaking-day imposter syndrome by remembering past outcomes The assessment that predicted a bad hire and launched VisionSpark Why someone else's roadmap is theirs, and you have to build your own If you're a founder, entrepreneur, or leader wrestling with hiring, growth, or the pressure to follow everyone else's rules, this conversation offers practical insight, honest talk about imposter syndrome, and a refreshing case that the only roadmap worth following is the one you build for yourself. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details: Guest: Alec Broadfoot, CEO & Founder, VisionSpark ("Finding Leaders. Building Teams.") Book: Hire Your Right Number 2 Leader (Amazon #1 bestseller) — available on Amazon Focus: Executive search for entrepreneurial companies, specializing in "number two leader" and key team searches using assessments, data, and process; many clients run EOS Website: https://visionsparksearch.com Meet the team: https://visionsparksearch.com/about/team/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

    Hire Slow, Pay Up, Build on Strengths: The Truth About Great Hiring | Alec Broadfoot
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Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom: Where clichés come to retire and fresh thinking we inspire. Smart minds don’t think alike—and that’s the point. Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom takes you inside the messy, brilliant, and bold thought processes of high-achieving leaders, entrepreneurs, and out-of-the-box thinkers. We skip the clichés and spotlight the real talk: the strange decisions that worked, the brilliant ideas that bombed, and the thought patterns that defy the rulebook—but still lead to growth, impact, and the occasional mic drop. If you’re tired of surface-level advice and crave the kind of wisdom that makes you pause, laugh, and level up—this is your new favorite listen. Because let’s face it: playing it safe never built anything worth bragging about.

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