It’s Both — Living in the Messy Middle

Nikki P
  • 5.0 (33)
  • Mental Health
  • Updated Weekly

It's Both is a podcast for the messy middle — the space between who you were and who you're becoming, full of life transitions, anxiety, and uncertainty. Maybe nothing major happened, but you don't recognize yourself anymore. Or maybe you're navigating divorce, a diagnosis, faith change, grief, a parenting season that's changed everything, or an identity shift you didn't choose. Every hard human experience asks you to let go of who you were before you know who you're becoming — and that gap is where transition anxiety shows up, where you feel lost during a transition you can't fully name. Both are normal. And you don't have to go through it alone. I'm Nikki P., a therapist turned storyteller. I built this show because I needed it myself — and realized other people did too. Every week, I have honest conversations with people living in the messy middle — holding joy and grief, gratitude and struggle, certainty and uncertainty — all at the same time, without pretending any of it isn't real. No toxic positivity. No fix-it mentalities. Just real language for the feelings you couldn't name, and permission to be exactly where you are. If you've been craving emotional support during transitions, or just a podcast that makes you feel a little less alone — this is for you. Life isn't either/or. It's both. And you're allowed to hold all of it. New episodes weekly. Find me @itsbothpodcast.

  1. 4d ago

    The Messy Middle of Self-Worth, Core Wounds & Becoming

    In the messy middle of chronic illness, self-worth, and giving up good for great, Amy Lenius joins me to talk about the three core wounds that quietly run our lives — unlovable, unwanted, and defective — and how healing starts long before we feel ready. In this episode, Amy shares her decade-long fight for an endometriosis diagnosis, the moment she chose to trust her own body over a system that kept dismissing her — the one question she now asks before every hard choice to protect her self-respect — why giving up something good for something great always feels like chaos in the middle, not clarity — and how something as small as painting her nails a new color became actual identity work. Amy Lenius is the director of group coaching at Next Level University and a holistic self-improvement coach specializing in the three core wounds framework.  If this episode resonates, grab the Messy Middle Workbook — five sections of prompts and meditations to help you actually sit with your own messy middle instead of rushing past it. Link in the show notes. Get Connected & Support the Show: - If you're in the messy middle right now, the workbook was made for this. Or you can grab your free resource. - Follow Amy on Instagram or visit her website  - Listen to the companion podcast: It's Both- Guided Meditations for Anxiety, Emotional Regulation, & Real Life Transitions - Subscribe, rate, & review It's Both on Apple Podcasts

    The Messy Middle of Self-Worth, Core Wounds & Becoming

  2. Jul 21

    Betrayal Is a Different Kind of Grief

    The messy middle of betrayal isn't just heartbreak. It sits in your body. It changes how you trust yourself. And it hits differently than any other kind of pain — and Dr. Debi Silber has the research to prove it. She went back to school at 50, in the middle of her own betrayal, to figure out why. What she found became groundbreaking research and a whole movement. In this conversation we talk about what post-betrayal syndrome actually looks like in your everyday life, why most people get stuck and never fully heal, and the five stages of betrayal recovery that change everything. There's also something she said that I haven't been able to stop thinking about — the people who heal the fastest aren't the ones who hurt the least. They're the ones who were the most willing. In this episode: — Why betrayal feels different from every other trauma — What post-betrayal syndrome actually is — and the symptoms you don't expect — How betrayal shatters your ability to trust yourself, not just the other person — The five stages of betrayal recovery — and where most people get stuck — Why willingness matters more than time — The three groups of people who don't heal — How to rebuild after your foundation is gone — What forgiveness actually means — and who it's really for If you've ever been betrayed by someone you loved and trusted — a partner, a parent, anyone — this one was made for you. Get Connected & Support the Show: - If you're in the messy middle right now, the workbook was made for this. Or you can grab your free resource. - Take the Post Betrayal Syndrome Quiz - Follow Dr. Debi Silber on Instagram or visit her website  - Listen to the companion podcast: It's Both- Guided Meditations for Anxiety, Emotional Regulation, & Real Life Transitions - Subscribe, rate, & review It's Both on Apple Podcasts

    Betrayal Is a Different Kind of Grief

  3. Jul 14

    The Messy Middle of Becoming a Mother

    The messy middle of becoming a mother doesn't end when you leave the hospital. It lives in the identity shift, the mom rage you don't talk about, the grief for who you were before, and the joy that exists right alongside all of it. Dr. Nicole Pensak is a licensed clinical psychologist who specializes in perinatal mental health — and she went through severe postpartum OCD herself, right in the middle of COVID, while her husband worked on the front lines. In this conversation, we talk about what actually happens to your brain when you become a mother, why postpartum is a developmental stage nobody told you about, and what it means to hold the grief and the love at the same time. In this episode: — What postpartum OCD actually looks like from the inside — Why becoming a mother is a neurodevelopmental phase just like adolescence — The truth about mom brain — and the cognitive superpowers nobody talks about — Mom guilt, mom rage, and what to actually do in the moment — Why the one-year postpartum cutoff is completely arbitrary — How to protect your brain in the earliest days — What post-traumatic growth looks like after birth trauma — The most important word for mothers: AND For anyone who has ever loved their child fiercely and also felt completely lost inside that love — this one is for you. Get Connected & Support the Show: - If you're in the messy middle right now, the workbook was made for this. Or you can grab your free resource. - Buy her book Rattled - Follow Dr. Nicole Pensak on Instagram or visit her website  - Listen to the companion podcast: It's Both- Guided Meditations for Anxiety, Emotional Regulation, & Real Life Transitions - Subscribe, rate, & review It's Both on Apple Podcasts

    The Messy Middle of Becoming a Mother

  4. Jul 7

    Breathwork, Grief & Starting Over

    The messy middle isn't always something you can think your way through. Sometimes it lives in your body — in the shallow breath, the held-back cry, the emotions you've been managing instead of feeling. Jon Paul Crimi is a breathwork teacher who has spent 15 years helping people release what their minds can't process alone. He found this work through his dear friend Matthew Perry — and the grief of losing him is woven into every class he teaches. In this conversation, we talk about what circular breathwork actually is and why it works, what it means to let go of the life you planned to step into the one you're actually meant for, and why you can't shut yourself off from the hard emotions without also losing access to the joy. In this episode: — What breathwork actually is — and why it's not what you think — The science behind circular breathing and transient hypofrontality — How Jon Paul found this work through Matthew Perry — and the grief that followed — How to know when to let go of a dream vs. push through the hard part — Why you can't feel joy without also feeling the grief — How breathwork changes relationships — and sometimes ends them — The difference between happiness and purpose — What self-love actually looks like in practice For anyone who lives in their head, knows exactly what they're feeling, and still can't seem to feel it — this one is for you. Get Connected & Support the Show: - If you're in the messy middle right now, the workbook was made for this. Or you can grab your free resource. - Follow Jon Paul Crimi on Instagram or visit his website  - Listen to the companion podcast: It's Both- Guided Meditations for Anxiety, Emotional Regulation, & Real Life Transitions - Subscribe, rate, & review It's Both on Apple Podcasts

    Breathwork, Grief & Starting Over

  5. Jun 24

    The Identity Shift Nobody Talks About in Codependency

    The messy middle of relationships isn't always dramatic. Sometimes it's the slow, quiet erosion of yourself — giving and giving and giving until you don't know where you end and everyone else begins. And not having a name for it until someone finally says it out loud. Vanessa Bennett is a licensed depth psychotherapist and author of The Motherhood Myth. She spent over a decade in corporate New York feeling disconnected underneath a life that looked felt great on the outside. She left, rebuilt, moved to LA, spent years creating exactly the community she wanted — and then lost her home in the LA fires in January 2025. Now she and her family are in Costa Rica, still following the breadcrumbs. In this episode, Vanessa and I talk about the identity shift of recognizing your own codependency — and why almost all of us are codependent whether we want to admit it or not. We talk about the difference between caregiving and caretaking, why resentment is actually one of the most useful tools you have, and what depth psychology actually means in practice for someone who lives entirely in their head. We also talk about grief, starting over, and the transition anxiety that comes with following breadcrumbs through the messy middle of a life that keeps changing before you're ready. This is also a really honest conversation about The Motherhood Myth — the lie we've all been fed that partnership and parenthood should feel natural and easy, and what it actually costs us when we believe it. For anyone who gives more than they take, for anyone who calls themselves a recovering codependent, and for anyone who says they're definitely not codependent — this one is for you. Get Connected & Support the Show: - Grab your free resource and be the first to know when the workbook is live. - Order Vanessa Bennett's book HERE - Follow Vanessa Bennett on Instagram or visit her website  - Listen to the companion podcast: It's Both- Guided Meditations for Anxiety, Emotional Regulation, & Real Life Transitions - Subscribe, rate, & review It's Both on Apple Podcasts

    The Identity Shift Nobody Talks About in Codependency

  6. Jun 17

    Starting Over With Desire After Losing Yourself

    The messy middle isn't always about a crisis you can name. Sometimes it's quietly losing your sense of self inside a relationship that looks fine from the outside — and not having language for what's actually happening until years later. Dr. Jordin Wiggins is a naturopathic doctor, pleasure and intimacy coach, and founder of the Pleasure Collective. She built a thriving health clinic, checked every box success was supposed to look like, and was still disconnected, exhausted, and quietly unraveling underneath it — both in her business and in a relationship she didn't yet have language to call abusive. In this episode, Jordin and I talk about starting over with your own desire after burnout, after betrayal blindness, and after losing your sense of agency inside your own home. We talk about why sexual dysfunction often isn't a personal failing at all — it's a power imbalance, an invisible labor problem, or a nervous system too dysregulated to access pleasure. We talk about responsive versus spontaneous desire, the orgasm gap, and why women's pleasure centers shut down in survival mode. And we get into what it actually felt like for her — a successful clinic owner who solved other people's problems all day — to rebuild her own identity, and her own desire, from nothing. This is also deeply personal for me. We talk about my own relationship in my teens and twenties, and the both/and of loving someone while slowly disappearing inside that love. This is a conversation about grief, identity shift, transition anxiety, and the messy middle of rebuilding your relationship to your own body, your own pleasure, and your own worth after everything falls apart. For anyone who has ever felt successful on paper and empty underneath — this one is for you. Get Connected & Support the Show: - Grab your free resource and be the first to know when the workbook is live. - Order Dr. Jordin Wiggins book HERE - Follow Dr. Jordin Wiggins on Instagram or visit her website  - Listen to the companion podcast: It's Both- Guided Meditations for Anxiety, Emotional Regulation, & Real Life Transitions - Subscribe, rate, & review It's Both on Apple Podcasts

    Starting Over With Desire After Losing Yourself

  7. Jun 9

    When You Can't Control What's Next - A Meditation for the Waiting

    The messy middle isn't always something you can talk your way through. Sometimes you just need a place to breathe. This is a meditation for the waiting. For the unknown. For the transition anxiety that sits in your body when you've made a decision but can't get to the other side of it yet — the knot in your stomach, the tightness in your chest that won't turn off no matter how many times you check your phone. We're not fixing anything here. We're not trying to be positive or push through. We're just finding a little awareness, a little steadiness, and a little permission to be exactly where you are. Both things can be true — you can be scared and still be okay. You can have no control over the outcome and still have control over how you take care of yourself while you wait. This meditation comes from the companion podcast It's Both Guided Meditations — available free wherever you listen. Get Connected & Support the Show: - Grab your free resource,What If You're Not Doing Anything Wrong — It's Just Hard Right Now, and give yourself permission to just be where you are. - Listen to the companion podcast: It's Both- Guided Meditations for Anxiety, Emotional Regulation, & Real Life Transitions - Subscribe, rate, & review It's Both on Apple Podcasts

    When You Can't Control What's Next - A Meditation for the Waiting

  8. Jun 2

    Grieving a Place I Haven't Left Yet

    The messy middle isn't always about a big dramatic moment. Sometimes it's the house that won't sell. The city you're grieving before you've even left. The goodbye that keeps getting delayed while life keeps demanding you show up anyway. This week I'm coming to you solo and I'm sharing where I am right now. We put our house on the market three months ago. We were under contract and then we weren't. Now we're leaving with nowhere to land yet, three kids including one starting kindergarten for the very first time, and a life I built here over ten years that I don't quite know how to say goodbye to. In this episode I talk about the anxiety and transition anxiety that comes with major life changes when the timing is completely out of your control, the grief of leaving a place that rebuilt me after everything fell apart, the identity shift of not knowing what comes next professionally or financially, and the emotional complexity of being so ready to go and so heartbroken to leave at the same time. I also talk about something I've been wrestling with — free will, predestination, and what it means when things aren't unfolding the way you thought they would. Is that a sign you're on the wrong path? Or is it just hard? And what do you do when you can't tell the difference? This is a conversation about grief, starting over, mixed emotions, and the very specific kind of suffering that comes from grieving something you're still living inside of every single day. It's also a love letter to a city that saved me. And my last recording in this room — one year in. For anyone in the waiting right now — anyone suspended in that in-between where you've made peace with what's coming but just can't get there yet — this one is for you. You are not alone in this. Get Connected & Support the Show: - Grab your free resource,What If You're Not Doing Anything Wrong — It's Just Hard Right Now, and give yourself permission to just be where you are. - Listen to the companion podcast: It's Both- Guided Meditations for Anxiety, Emotional Regulation, & Real Life Transitions - Subscribe, rate, & review It's Both on Apple Podcasts

    Grieving a Place I Haven't Left Yet
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About

It's Both is a podcast for the messy middle — the space between who you were and who you're becoming, full of life transitions, anxiety, and uncertainty. Maybe nothing major happened, but you don't recognize yourself anymore. Or maybe you're navigating divorce, a diagnosis, faith change, grief, a parenting season that's changed everything, or an identity shift you didn't choose. Every hard human experience asks you to let go of who you were before you know who you're becoming — and that gap is where transition anxiety shows up, where you feel lost during a transition you can't fully name. Both are normal. And you don't have to go through it alone. I'm Nikki P., a therapist turned storyteller. I built this show because I needed it myself — and realized other people did too. Every week, I have honest conversations with people living in the messy middle — holding joy and grief, gratitude and struggle, certainty and uncertainty — all at the same time, without pretending any of it isn't real. No toxic positivity. No fix-it mentalities. Just real language for the feelings you couldn't name, and permission to be exactly where you are. If you've been craving emotional support during transitions, or just a podcast that makes you feel a little less alone — this is for you. Life isn't either/or. It's both. And you're allowed to hold all of it. New episodes weekly. Find me @itsbothpodcast.

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