The Twenty One Clear Podcast

Adam Hatcher

The benefits of working with family include mutual trust, a shared long-term outlook, and quick decision making. However, your inner family business relationships can also cause chaos for the company and family. What can you do? Join us as we explore chaos proofing your family business so you can build a great company with a strong family around it. 21clear.com

  1. Jul 30

    Four Stages of Leadership - Part 2: Stage 4 and the Stages' Importance

    Part two of Adam's conversation with Norm Smallwood, co-founder of The RBL Group, picking up where Episode 12 left off. Norm and Adam move into stage four, otherwise known as "power", of Norm's four-stage leadership model. They then work through what it costs a family business when people are operating below the stage their role requires, why self-diagnosis of your own stage almost never works, and what it looks like to build a great career and a great company without ever needing to become stage four yourself. 21C links Website: https://www.21clear.com?utm_source=twenty-one-clear&utm_medium=website&utm_campaign=ep-13-four-stages-of-leadership-part-2&utm_content=show-notesAdam on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamhatcher?utm_source=twenty-one-clear&utm_medium=website&utm_campaign=ep-13-four-stages-of-leadership-part-2&utm_content=show-notesNewsletter: https://21clear.substack.com/?utm_source=twenty-one-clear&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ep-13-four-stages-of-leadership-part-2&utm_content=show-notesThe RBL Group (Norm Smallwood): https://www.rbl.net/?utm_source=twenty-one-clear&utm_medium=website&utm_campaign=ep-13-four-stages-of-leadership-part-2&utm_content=show-notesEpisode 12, Part 1: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-twenty-one-clear-podcast/id1811403547Ask Adam for Norm's Four Stages assessment. Email: adam.hatcher@21clear.comBumper music: "Still Hot" by Nic D, Connor Price © Lossless, 2023 Episode produced by: https://snapmarket.co Chapters[00:00] Welcome and Recap[03:09] Naming Stage Four[06:23] When Stage Fours Collide[08:53] You Can't See Your Own Stage[13:12] The Real Cost Isn't Bob's[16:15] Succeeding at Every Stage but One[17:32] What Makes a "Sue"[20:45] What Buyers Are Actually Buying[23:28] Quality of Leadership as a Line Item[25:22] Willie G. Davidson and "Sounded Like a Harley"[26:00] Julian Van Winkle and Making It "Taste Like Pappy"[28:35] You Don't Have to Be Stage Four to Win[29:45] Where to find Norm's four-stages assessment and how to reach Adam

  2. Jun 25

    Four Stages of Leadership - Part 1: Stages 1-3

    In this first of two parts, Adam Hatcher sits down with Norm Smallwood, co-founder of RBL Group and a longtime collaborator in Adam's own family business journey, to unpack the four stages of leadership. The framework, rooted in decades of research on how professionals contribute over time, gives family business leaders a practical language for two of the most common fears they may face: Am I actually seen as a strong performer? And are the family members I'm responsible for performing at the level this company needs? Episode Links Website: https://www.21clear.comAdam on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamhatcherNewsletter: https://21clear.substack.com/RBL Group: https://rbl.netThe Leadership Code (book): https://www.amazon.com/Leadership-Code-Five-Rules-Lead/dp/1422119017/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1B26WGHNHQ6VK&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.838JgtClYdMg4F3r2ARzvCthyMzkEj4gGOv8NG00GHtSNPWV7lwBru9aOWpjJIdEWVfa0yrm8wjqnfY9uUC1eZ_CKIBHbdAWzOY4vLrmzDgT6AgJaTL2adE27iKDWUhi5nDye2TXJJi4DRUxOQdejq6msmfQVXNBBb_BxZIfLGN85fVJnM9B4qAU7HIFVavJxo3CZXHawE78UW0oqje5vokaFeUZ8cQgFmfT5TvOSd4.2QPaWp6sU8o1M31W8ScJ7hWMfSAjeliNX3qNGYa0tZA&dib_tag=se&keywords=leadership+code&qid=1781721087&sprefix=leadership+code%2Caps%2C207&sr=8-1Bumper Music: "Still Hot" by Nic D, Connor Price © Lossless, 2023 Episode Produced By: https://snapmarket.co Chapters[00:00:05] Introduction[00:04:26] Background[00:05:36] The Two Fears[00:07:04] The Origin[00:11:15] Stage 1: Dependent Contributor[00:13:54] The Prosecutor Story[00:14:56] Stage 2: Independent Contributor[00:18:03] Stage 3: Contributing Through Others[00:21:01] The External Benchmark[00:23:05] Super Expert vs. Integrator[00:26:33] Does Stage 3 Require a Team?[00:29:42] From Me to Us[00:33:19] Reinvention and Novation[00:36:35] "Am I As Good As My Title?"[00:38:56] Availability vs. Qualification[00:41:00] Close and Preview

  3. May 14

    Hosting Family Meetings and Leaving the Company

    Following on from last month's panel from Kennesaw State's Family Enterprise Center, Adam returns to have a conversation with Andrea Carpenter of The Transition Strategists. And this time they get practical: how to take a pulse on your life in the family company, the three questions every family member should keep asking, the headlines exercise that opened the door to Adam's own transition, and a LinkedIn story from a former CEO that shows the cost of an abrupt exit. Episode links Andrea Carpenter: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreakcarpenter/Your Next Gen Friend Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/episode/6QTytzkOKwGIEaOGRI5fec?si=fiANnFm_Sty0Ff78tgjnQAThe Transition Strategists: https://transitionstrategists.com/21C Links Twenty One Clear website: https://www.21clear.comAdam Hatcher on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamhatcherSubscribe to the Twenty One Clear newsletter: https://21clear.substack.com/Bumper MusicStill Hot by Nic D, Connor Price | (c) Lossless, 2023 Episode Produced Byhttps://snapmarket.co Chapters[00:00] Welcome and Recap — Following up on Episode 11's Kennesaw State panel[02:00] My Thirteen Years and Why "General" Titles Drift[04:30] The Two Roots: Open Dialogue and Twenty Years of Family Meetings[07:00] If You've Never Held a Family Meeting, Start Here[09:30] Opening the Door When You're the Next Generation[12:00] "Build a Great Company With a Strong Family" — The Opening Line[14:30] Andrea on Who Starts the Conversation[17:00] The Three Questions Every Family Member Should Ask[20:00] Engagement Isn't Automatic — Reward, Recognition, and Development[23:00] Andrea's Objectives Matrix and Defining Your Deal Breakers[25:30] The Headlines Exercise: How I Stepped Out of My Roles[28:00] Pete's Story From LinkedIn — The Cost of an Abrupt Exit[29:30] Closing — How to Keep Thinking About Your Inner Family Business

  4. Mar 26

    Leaving Your Family Company

    In this latest episode of the Twenty One Clear Podcast, Adam Hatcher joins a Kennesaw State University Family Enterprise Center panel hosted by Stephanie Davis. Adam's fellow panelists were Jacqueline Jensen and Leslie Oubre, both of whom left their family companies mid-career.  Together they answer three questions:  Was leaving a gradual or acute process? What was the emotional impact? And what would they do differently or tell someone else going through it?Links from the Episode Please note that when the full webinar recording comes out, it will be here on KSW's YouTube channel: https://youtube.com/@familyenterprisecenteratksu?si=KxGEKf77MaETtfK6Kennesaw State University Family Enterprise Center: https://www.kennesaw.edu/coles/centers/family-enterprise-center/index.phpStephanie Davis LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephanie-davis-b467b28Jacqueline Jensen LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ja-bizcoachLeslie Oubre: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leslieoubre21C Links Twenty One Clear website: https://www.21clear.comAdam Hatcher on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamhatcherSubscribe to the Twenty One Clear newsletter: https://21clear.substack.com/Chapters(00:00) Introduction(02:30) Was leaving gradual or acute?(08:00) Family meetings as the mechanism(11:30) The emotional impact(17:00) The steamroller CEO story(20:30) Jacqueline on identity(27:00) The three hats framework(33:00) Leslie on admitting the truth(37:00) Emily P. Freeman's framework(41:30) Leslie's step-by-step approach(45:00) Closing Bumper MusicStill Hotby Nic D, Connor Price(c) Lossless, 2023 Episode Produced Byhttps://snapmarket.co

  5. Feb 26

    When Flexibility Goes Too Far in Family Business (and What to Do About It)

    In this episode of the Twenty One Clear Podcast, Adam Hatcher welcomes back Melissa Mitchell-Blitch, author of In the Company of Family: How to Thrive When Business is Personal, to explore how flexibility shapes boundaries and decision-making in family businesses. Together, they unpack the difference between thoughtful exceptions and destructive entitlement, share real-life stories of unintended consequences, and offer practical tools for addressing responsibility among family owners. With their professional expertise, lived experience, and honest reflections, this episode delivers essential insights for families who want to strengthen both their company and their relationships. Tune in to discover how conversations about rules, consequences, and ownership can chaos-proof your family business. Links for MelissaLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissamitchellblitchWebsite: https://melissamitchellblitch.com/Book: In the Company of Family: How to Thrive When Business is Personal  - https://www.amazon.com/Company-Family-Thrive-Business-Personal/dp/0578761459?sr=8-1 21C LinksTwenty One Clear website: www.21clear.comAdam Hatcher on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/adamhatcherSubscribe to the Twenty One Clear newsletter: https://21clear.substack.com/ Bumper MusicStill Hotby Nic D, Connor Price(c) Lossless, 2023 Episode Produced Byhttps://snapmarket.co Chapters(00:00) Introducing Flexibility in Family Business(02:45) Understanding When to Bend Rules(05:31) Considering Consequences of Flexibility(12:22) Practicing with Low-Stakes Decisions(18:18) The Dangers of Entitlement(20:27) Clarifying Responsibility in Family Roles

  6. Feb 3

    Boundaries for Your Inner Family Business

    Join host Adam Hatcher as he welcomes Melissa Mitchell-Blitch, author of In the Company of Family: How to Thrive When Business is Personal, for an exploration of family business dynamics and the essential role of boundaries. Melissa draws on her journey from wealth advisor to family business consultant, revealing hard-earned lessons about the emotional and organizational challenges that come with working alongside loved ones. Discover why boundaries are an essential framework that protects both business ambitions and family relationships. This episode offers practical insight for anyone navigating the unique complexities of running a family company. Links for Melissa LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissamitchellblitchWebsite: https://melissamitchellblitch.com/Book: In the Company of Family: How to Thrive When Business is Personal  - https://www.amazon.com/Company-Family-Thrive-Business-Personal/dp/0578761459?sr=8-121C Links Twenty One Clear website: www.21clear.comAdam Hatcher on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/adamhatcherSubscribe to the Twenty One Clear newsletter: https://21clear.substack.com/Bumper MusicStill Hotby Nic D, Connor Price(c) Lossless, 2023 Episode Produced Byhttps://snapmarket.co Chapters(00:00) Introducing Boundaries in Family Business(01:47) Melissa’s Journey from Finance to Family Dynamics(04:48) The Cost of Technical Advice without Family Focus(06:16) Motivations Driving Family Decisions(10:12) Learning to Address Family Dynamics Professionally(12:36) Defining Boundaries and Their Role(15:11) Practical Examples and The Freedom of Boundaries(18:32) Boundaries That Are Fair, Firm, and Friendly(20:28) The Intensely Personal Nature of Family Business Decisions(21:11) Setting Up the Discussion on Flexibility for Part Two

  7. 11/20/2025

    My Experience Joining the Family Company

    In this episode, Adam Hatcher reflects on his own journey of joining the family business and the realities that come with stepping into a company run by relatives. Featuring a conversation with Andrea Carpenter, president of Transition Strategists and host of Your Next Gen Friend podcast, the discussion unpacks firsthand stories about generational expectations, mixing family ties with company roles, and the challenges of growing into leadership. Listeners will gain honest perspectives on navigating tension, building independence, and chaos-proofing the family business from someone who has lived it. If you’re considering bringing family into your organization—or are part of one already—this episode brings practical insight for every stage of the journey. Links for Andrea Carpenter Website: https://transitionstrategists.com/Your Next Gen Friend Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/your-next-gen-friend-a-successors-guide-to-business/id1821493103LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreashaverInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/yournextgenfriend/21C Links Twenty One Clear website: www.21clear.comAdam Hatcher on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/adamhatcherSubscribe to the Twenty One Clear newsletter: https://21clear.substack.com/Subscribe to the podcast and listen to the previous three episodes that this episode builds upon: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-twenty-one-clear-podcast/id1811403547Bumper MusicStill Hotby Nic D, Connor Price(c) Lossless, 2023 Episode Produced Byhttps://snapmarket.co Chapters(00:00) Reflecting on Joining the Family Business(02:56) Advice from Other Family Business Leaders(06:30) Value of Independent Experience(11:05) Generational Stories and Building on the Past(15:15) Navigating Authority and Tension in Leadership(20:00) Mixing Family and Business Dynamics(27:00) Honest Conversations and Growth Decisions

  8. 09/25/2025

    Chaos Proof Your Family Hiring - Part 2

    In this episode of The Twenty One Clear Podcast, Adam Hatcher takes us into Part 2 of Chaos Proofing Your Family Hiring by focusing on the essential and highly practical steps required for chaos-proofing the hiring of family members in a family business. Drawing on real-world stories and experiences, Adam explores how to set clear hiring criteria, including matching family to actual jobs, and the risks involved in joining the family company. He also shares practical strategies for onboarding new family employees and highlights the importance of addressing these issues before the next challenge hits. If you want to grow your company and keep your family strong, this episode delivers experienced guidance you can put to work right away. 21C Links Twenty One Clear website - https://21clear.comAdam Hatcher on LinkedIn - https://linkedin.com/in/adamhatcherSubscribe to the Twenty One Clear newsletter - https://21clear.substack.com/Bumper MusicStill Hotby Nic D, Connor Price(c) Lossless, 2023 Episode Produced Byhttps://snapmarket.co Chapters(00:00) Recap of Chaos Proof Hiring Framework(03:15) Matching Family Members to Actual Jobs(09:18) Risks of Joining the Family Business(15:08) Vigorously Onboarding Family Employees(26:10) Early Preparation and Family Meetings

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5
out of 5
9 Ratings

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The benefits of working with family include mutual trust, a shared long-term outlook, and quick decision making. However, your inner family business relationships can also cause chaos for the company and family. What can you do? Join us as we explore chaos proofing your family business so you can build a great company with a strong family around it. 21clear.com

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