A2Z Fintech

Aman Narain & Zubin Vandrevala

Aman Narain and Zubin Vandrevala have spent over 25 years in fintech across Banks, BigTech, and Startups. This is a podcast of them riffing on payments, fintech and everything in between.

  1. 2d ago

    S2E33 — Jio IPO: Musk, Ambani and the Same Locked Door

    Click here to watch a video of this episode. The Jio IPO raised $3.2 billion, the biggest listing in Indian history, and nobody sold a single share. Three weeks earlier Elon Musk had asked whether Mukesh Ambani is "the real boss of India". On 28 October 2026 Jio Platforms listed in Mumbai at 1,358 rupees a share, 21% above its issue price, a value of about $130 billion. The Jio IPO was 22 times subscribed, yet retail investors, the people Dhirubhai Ambani built Reliance on, barely turned up. The twist came from Reliance itself: answering Musk's charge that oligarchs were blocking Starlink, it disclosed that Jio's own satellite service is waiting for the same security clearance. Aman Narain and Zubin Vandrevala break down what the Jio IPO was really for, whether Jio is the SpaceX of India or its Bell System, and what a landlord with a listed share means for every fintech on its rails. Key takeaways:1. The Jio IPO was not a growth raise: nobody sold a share and most of the $3.2 billion repays debt, so what it really bought was a listed share price to spend.2. Jio and SpaceX run the same playbook: win the allocation, collapse the unit cost, own the stack and let the cash machine fund the moonshot.3. In structure Jio is closer to the Bell System than to SpaceX: one network, one country, one government, until the state changes its mind.4. Musk alleges that Ambani is locking Starlink out of India, yet Jio's own satellite service is waiting on the same security clearance.5. Every Indian fintech is a tenant on Jio's rails, and a landlord with a listed currency does not raise the rent. He buys the tenants. Questions answered:- What is the Jio IPO? India's largest: Jio Platforms raised 30,213 crore rupees (about $3.2 billion) in new shares and listed on 28 October 2026.- Why is Starlink not available in India? It has its licence. What it lacks is a Home Ministry security clearance, the same one Jio's satellite service is waiting for.- Is Jio the SpaceX of India? In ambition and in its dealings with the state, yes. In structure it is closer to the old Bell System. Topics covered:- The listing: 21% up on day one, 70 times subscribed by institutions, under three times by retail- Why 42 times earnings only works if revenue per customer keeps rising- How a non-compete that expired on 23 May 2010 let Mukesh Ambani back into telecoms- Four moves Jio shares with SpaceX, and Zubin's case that it is really the Bell System- The satellite spectrum fight Jio lost in 2024, and Musk's three posts in October 2026- Whole or parts, and the bet: Jio or Airtel by November 2027 Enjoying A2Z Fintech? Leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. It is the single biggest signal to the Apple algorithm and how new listeners in our world find us. Chapters: (00:00) - Cold open: Musk, X, 8 October 2026 (00:21) - India's biggest IPO, and nobody sold a share (01:41) - Disclaimer (01:54) - The listing: 21% up on day one (02:20) - Why the small investor sat this one out (03:18) - Nobody sold: what the $3.2 billion is for (04:06) - 2005 to 2010: how Mukesh got back into telecoms (05:14) - A $1 billion purchase, hours after the auction (06:26) - Is Jio the SpaceX of India? Four moves (07:25) - Zubin's rebuttal: Bell System, not SpaceX (08:47) - The satellite fight: Jio is getting Jio'd (09:52) - Musk's three posts and New Delhi's reply (10:59) - Musk and Ambani in the same queue (12:12) - Why fintech should care: landlord and tenants (13:13) - What Jio buys first: lender, AI or satellite? (13:52) - Closing wagers: Jio or Airtel by November 2027? (14:47) - Where we land: the state as co-founder Referenced in this episode: the Jio Platforms IPO, 21 to 28 October 2026; Elon Musk's posts on X, 7 to 9 October 2026; the Indian government's reply and Reliance's statement of 16 October 2026; Airtel and Jio second-quarter results; the 2010 broadband spectrum auction and Infotel Broadband; India's 2024 decision to allocate satellite spectrum without an auction; the 1984 break-up of the Bell System.Corrections: Reliance's statement was issued on 16 October 2026, not 9 October. The IPO was 22.19 times subscribed overall and 2.72 times by retail investors, not 21 and 2.76. Dhirubhai Ambani died in 2002; the brothers divided the group in 2005. Related episodes: S2E25, UPI at 10; S2E17, SpaceX's $2 Trillion IPO vs the AI Listing Race. Hosted by:Creators & Guests Aman Narain - Host Zubin Vandrevala - Host Aman Narain writes at amanwhoblogs.substack.com. Zubin Vandrevala is your payments provocateur.For information and entertainment only. Not financial advice. Transcript:Click here to view the episode transcript.

    S2E33 — Jio IPO: Musk, Ambani and the Same Locked Door
  2. Nov 4

    S2E32 — AI Agents and the Future of Shopping: Who Pays When It's Wrong?

    Click here to watch a video of this episode. Amazon blocked Meta's shopping agent in September; a month later Walmart opened its doors to approved AI agents with spending limits. The fight is not really about the checkout; it is about who stands behind the agent when it gets things wrong. From Piggly Wiggly in 1916 to Alipay's escrow in 2004, each leap in shopping removed a friction and needed a new trust device. Today AI agents research, recommend and fill the basket, yet they are barely buyers. China runs agent shopping inside super-apps, India builds on public rails, and the West is split between open protocols and walled gardens. Aman Narain (Singapore; ex Standard Chartered, HSBC and Google Pay) and Zubin Vandrevala (San Francisco; your payments provocateur) break down the future of shopping in Part two of The Future Of, and answer the question that decides it: when AI agents do the buying, who pays when they get it wrong? Key takeaways:1. Every shopping revolution looked like a technology story and turned out to be a trust story; AI agents will be no different.2. Amazon's stand-off with Meta's Muse is about the billboard, not the checkout: an agent never sees the ads.3. AI is a research engine and barely a buyer today: discovery moves first, checkout follows later.4. Know your customer becomes know your agent, and whoever underwrites the software's mistakes will own the customer. Topics covered:- Four frictions: distance, information, trust and attention- Three operating systems: China, India and the West- Amazon versus Walmart on AI agents, and the ad money at stake- CART, the Delegation Ladder, know your agent and the Money OS Chapters: (00:00) - Cold open: Memphis, 1916, and the first self-service shop (00:34) - Atlanta, 2030: an AI agent does Tamika's weekly shop (01:12) - Amazon blocks Meta's Muse, Walmart lets agents in (02:09) - Welcome to Part two: five verbs and a challenge (04:00) - Disclaimer (04:27) - Act One: every shopping revolution removed a friction (05:10) - Piggly Wiggly and the birth of retail media (06:16) - Troy, Ohio, 1974: the barcode teaches stores to know (07:00) - Diners Club, Alipay's escrow trick and UPI (09:18) - The scorecard: four predictions that totally missed (11:13) - Act Two: a $6.88 trillion number with a footnote (11:40) - China: three operating systems and a 24-minute basket (12:55) - The 100 billion yuan subsidy war (15:04) - India: dark stores, quick commerce and credit on UPI (17:02) - The West: Amazon says no, Walmart says yes (19:30) - Agent Profiles and a $100 spending limit (20:07) - Follow the ads: Amazon's $68 billion billboard (21:33) - Curious but not trusting, and the Walls Concession (22:40) - Act Three: CART and the Delegation Ladder for AI agents (24:00) - A 35-fold gap: $144 billion to $5 trillion (25:44) - Less than 1%: the number that tempers the hype (27:22) - A crowded field, and why to hold your dates loosely (28:38) - Rails: who pays when the AI agent gets it wrong? (29:55) - The Apple Pay trick: agentic tokens and one-time cards (30:47) - Tolls: from the billboard to the tollbooth (32:09) - Compression, and why stores polarise (33:04) - The risks, the human edge and waypoints to 2035 (35:13) - Act Four: what AI agents do to your Money OS (37:18) - Closing wagers: Amazon's open door or Visa's dispute rule? (38:27) - Mic drop: who is the customer? (39:43) - Would you let software do your weekly shop? (40:41) - One more thing: the last human customer Referenced in this episode: Piggly Wiggly (1916); Alipay escrow (2004); Amazon's block on Meta's Muse (September 2026); Walmart's Agent Gateway (21 October 2026); LexisNexis True Cost of Fraud ($5.13 per $1 of fraud).Related episodes: S2E31, The Future of Work; S2E30, Bot Wars; S2E25, UPI at 10. Hosted by:Creators & Guests Aman Narain - Host Zubin Vandrevala - Host Aman Narain writes at amanwhoblogs.substack.com.Zubin Vandrevala is your payments provocateur.Enjoying A2Z Fintech? Leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. It is the single biggest signal to the Apple algorithm and how new listeners in our world find us. For information and entertainment only. Not financial advice. Transcript:Click here to view the episode transcript.

    S2E32 — AI Agents and the Future of Shopping: Who Pays When It's Wrong?
  3. Oct 27

    S2E31 — The Future of Work: Banking the One-Person Enterprise

    Click here to watch a video of this episode. Imagine a YouTuber with 400,000 subscribers and about $180,000 a year who cannot get a mortgage, because her bank does not underwrite dashboards. The future of work has arrived, and the Money OS underneath it was built for the employee. In this first episode of The Future Of, a three-part mini-series on how you bank, how you shop and how you work, Aman Narain and Zubin Vandrevala return to a conversation first recorded late last year. The future of work, they argue, runs through the one-person enterprise: a creator, freelancer or sole trader who looks like a company on paper but has no employees, no payslip and no HR. Platforms such as Uber, Shopify and YouTube now supply the sales, marketing and operations, and increasingly the finance function. The banks underneath have not caught up. Aman Narain and Zubin Vandrevala break down what the future of work demands from the financial system: real-time visibility of income, instant and programmable payments, credit that reads cash-flow futures rather than payslips, portable pensions, and insurance for algorithmic risk. Key takeaways:1. Platforms such as Uber, Shopify and YouTube now act as the CFO layer for independent workers, running payroll, treasury, working capital and tax, while banks become the regulated infrastructure underneath them.2. Credit built on payslips cannot see a creator with 400,000 subscribers and about $180,000 a year, so banks must underwrite cash-flow futures from platform data rather than income history.3. Four forces explain why work feels broken: walls, human agency, automation and modularity, which the hosts spell as WHAM.4. A new Money OS for the future of work needs five primitives: see, move, borrow, grow and protect your money.5. Both hosts make a dated bet: by the end of 2027 a major platform will auto-save into a portable pension by default, and a top-ten Asian bank will approve home loans on platform earnings data, not a payslip. Topics covered:- The 1985 job interview against the 2025 AI screen- Carlota Perez, the vibecession and the chaotic middle between two eras- WHAM: walls, human agency, automation and modularity- Why the future of work looks like a playlist, not an album- Why US business formation hit a record after 2020, and India's 63 million MSMEs- The one-person enterprise at the heart of the future of work, and platforms as the new C-suite- Why platforms are becoming your CFO, with banks as the regulated layer beneath- Five primitives of a new Money OS: see, move, borrow, grow, protect- Five risks and three upsides of the independent economy- Closing wagers: platform auto-pensions or payslip-free home loans by the end of 2027 Chapters: (00:00) - Cold open: a job interview, 1985 (00:55) - Two billion workers the financial system can't see (01:33) - Welcome back: the vibecession and Carlota Perez (02:43) - Disclaimer (03:08) - From farms to factories: inventing the job (03:44) - The 80s illusion of stability, then portfolio careers (05:07) - Four forces, one 80s duo: the WHAM framework (05:39) - W is for walls: fragmentation and nationalism (06:25) - H is for human agency: freedom without a safety net (07:04) - A is for automation: the barbell economy (07:55) - Why early inequality is a feature of transition (08:49) - M is for modularity: albums became playlists (09:44) - Why US business formation hit a record after 2020 (10:56) - India's 63 million MSMEs and the credit gap (11:28) - What is a one-person enterprise? (12:18) - Platforms as the new C-suite: CRO, CMO, COO, CTO (13:52) - No HR, so platforms become your CFO: the Money OS (15:09) - The CFO layer on top, the regulated bank underneath (15:49) - The DeLorean problem: five primitives for a new Money OS (16:56) - Primitive one: seeing your money in real time (17:58) - Primitive two: moving money, instant and programmable (19:20) - Primitive three: Divya and the unbankable millionaire (20:42) - Primitive four: growing money and portable pensions (22:06) - Primitive five: insurance for algorithmic risk (23:30) - From employer-centric to entity-centric Money OS (25:01) - Five risks: platform dependency to the benefits gap (25:57) - The upside: Lagos, Netflix and platform cooperatives (26:58) - Closing wagers: auto-pensions or payslip-free loans? (27:40) - From fields to feeds: we are living in transition (29:03) - A call to builders: design for the portfolio worker (30:17) - Three futures, five verbs: what comes next Referenced in this episode: Carlota Perez on technological revolutions; the WHAM framework; an MIT research report on automation and job polarisation; US Census Bureau Business Formation Statistics; India's MSME sector; Uber, Shopify, YouTube, Stripe and Amazon FBA as financial operating systems; Brazil's Pix and India's UPI; platform-worker pension policy in Singapore, France and the UK; PinBox; platform cooperatives. Related episodes: S2E18, The Stablecoin Endgame Nobody's Talking About; The Future Of: Banking and Shopping [TBD: add links when published]. Hosted by:Creators & Guests Aman Narain - Host Zubin Vandrevala - Host Aman Narain writes at amanwhoblogs.substack.com. Zubin Vandrevala is your payments provocateur. Disclosure: Aman Narain is a board adviser to PinBox, which is mentioned in this episode. Enjoying A2Z Fintech? Leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. It is the single biggest signal to the Apple algorithm and how new listeners in our world find us. For information and entertainment only. Not financial advice. Transcript:Click here to view the episode transcript.

    S2E31 — The Future of Work: Banking the One-Person Enterprise
  4. Oct 15

    S2E30 — Why Every AI Bot Wants to Be Your Friend

    Click here to watch a video of this episode. Four personal AI agents landed in seven weeks, and three of them can already spend your money. Meta's help page puts the liability in eleven words, and Instinct's terms bind you as if you had made the purchase yourself. Who pays when an AI agent gets it wrong, and why does every one of them arrive with a face? In seven weeks, Meta launched Muse (8 September), SpaceXAI put Grok Bot into beta, OpenAI unveiled dots (29 September) and Instinct raised $1 billion at a $10 billion valuation. Three of those AI agents can spend today, with Stripe's Link wallet behind Muse, Grok Bot and Instinct. The twist is in the contracts: on paper the user pays, the bot never does, and under US rules the bank may end up writing the refund. Aman Narain and Zubin Vandrevala break down who pays when AI agents make mistakes, who moves the money behind them, and why Meta, OpenAI and Instinct gave their AI agents a face while Google and Anthropic did not. Key takeaways:1. On the contract, you pay: Meta and Instinct both put liability for an AI agent's purchases on the user, and in no version does the bot pay.2. A bot's silence is the new pending: the failure that nearly cost Aman a meeting was a confirmation that never came, not a wrong charge.3. Muse, Grok Bot and Instinct all pay through Stripe's Link wallet, yet the power sits at the two ends: the bot you trust and the shop with the goods.4. Amazon blocked Muse twelve days after launch, and Sierra and Meta's answer is a standard that says who is knocking but not who pays.5. Before an AI agent gets your card, ask three things: does it ask first, what is the cap, and who do you call. Topics covered:- Muse, Grok Bot, dots and Instinct: which AI agents can spend, and which cannot yet- The two clauses that decide liability: Meta's help page and Instinct's section three- Why silence, not a wrong charge, is the failure mode- How an agent purchase works: request, approve, issue, pay- Regulation E and the bank as the unwitting insurer- Amazon's block of Muse, and the Personal Agent Protocol from Sierra and Meta- India's NPCI and its Unified Agent Protocol- Why Meta, OpenAI and Instinct gave agents a face, and why Google and Anthropic did not- Ask, cap, call: three questions before an AI agent gets your card Chapters: (00:00) - Cold open: Maya, Roxy and a $1,200 room, Austin (01:38) - Disclaimer (02:32) - Bot one: Meta's Muse and its plush face, Jolly (04:06) - A creature with a chaperone: Muse and Sentinel (04:42) - Bot two: Grok Bot and the staff room (06:19) - Bot three: OpenAI's dots and a frog called Todd (08:29) - Bot four: Instinct, the agent that lives in your texts (09:58) - The fine print: eleven words on a help page (10:23) - Instinct's section three: a power of attorney for a bot (11:13) - Pending: the most expensive word in finance (12:07) - So who pays? The contract, Regulation E and the bank (13:06) - Under the bonnet: four steps from request to payment (13:47) - The bank cannot tell a bot from a human (14:32) - One wallet, three rivals: Stripe's Link (14:58) - John Collison and the founder-led lunch (16:03) - The Money OS is rented, not owned (17:28) - Amazon blocks Muse, twelve days in (18:14) - Sierra's Personal Agent Protocol: who is knocking? (19:56) - The complaints desk: whoever pays makes the rules (20:52) - India builds the road first: NPCI's agent protocol (21:31) - Why every bot gets a face (and two don't) (23:20) - Is AI going social to grow? Charm is not a control (24:35) - When the staff room gets bodies: Optimus (25:29) - Ask, cap, call: three questions before a bot gets your card (26:30) - Closing wagers: the friend or the contract? (27:06) - Mico, Clippy and the costume party (27:55) - Casting a soul for your robot: tell me who pays Referenced in this episode: Meta Muse launch and help page; Stripe Link wallet for agents; Instinct Series C; Grok Bot beta; OpenAI DevDay and dots; Amazon's block of Muse; Sierra and Meta Personal Agent Protocol; NPCI Unified Agent Protocol; Regulation E; White House executive order on "Super Intelligence"; Microsoft Copilot's Mico. Related episodes: Google I/O 2026 (Gemini Spark); Stripe and the Money OS [TBD: title and link]; S2E28, Revolut [TBD: link]. Hosted by:Creators & Guests Aman Narain - Host Zubin Vandrevala - Host Aman Narain writes at amanwhoblogs.substack.com. Zubin Vandrevala is your payments provocateur. Enjoying A2Z Fintech? Leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. It is the single biggest signal to the Apple algorithm and how new listeners in our world find us. For information and entertainment only. Not financial advice. Transcript:Click here to view the episode transcript.

    S2E30 — Why Every AI Bot Wants to Be Your Friend
  5. Oct 5

    AI Bubble: a16z Says No. So Who's Left Holding It?

    Click here to watch a video of this episode. Andreessen Horowitz has published 90 slides arguing that AI is not a bubble, one month after closing a $1.1 billion fund for AI hardware. On slide 88, holographic Pokémon cards are up 110% since January 2024, against 72% for the Nasdaq. The real question is not whether there is an AI bubble, but who is holding it when the next buyer pauses. On 30 September, a16z's Growth team, led by David George, published State of Markets II. The deck makes a serious case: tech delivered about 76% of the S&P 500's earnings growth this year, and valuations fell while profits rose. The twist is in the financing. Meta's Hyperion data centre sits in a vehicle 80% owned by Blue Owl's funds, the Chicago Fed puts large US banks' committed AI-related lines at about a quarter of their core capital, and the AI bubble debate has quietly moved from shareholders to banks, insurers and pension funds. Aman Narain and Zubin Vandrevala boil the deck down to five mega trends and ten takeaways for financial services, score every argument, and walk through, day by day, what happens if the AI bubble bursts. Key takeaways:1. a16z is right about the companies and silent on who pays for them: in one quarter Alphabet and Amazon booked about $150 billion of paper gains on private AI stakes, roughly 12% of S&P 500 earnings on Goldman's estimate.2. Finance has become the balance sheet of AI: Meta's Hyperion data centre sits in a vehicle 80% owned by Blue Owl's funds, with about $27 billion of bonds behind it and Meta as the tenant.3. The Chicago Fed puts large US banks' drawn AI-related loans at about 9% of Tier 1 capital and committed lines at about 25%. The gap is what nobody sees until a bad week.4. AI efficiency is real and gets competed away. The saving goes to the customer, and part of the AI budget comes straight out of headcount.5. If the AI bubble bursts, pensions and insurers face a markdown rather than a wipe-out. The danger is that every loss arrives in the same week. Topics covered:- Why a16z's deck deserves both respect and a disclaimer: the umbrella seller's weather forecast- Five mega trends, argued both ways and scored: earnings, capex, atoms, cheap intelligence, private markets- The merry-go-round between cloud giants, AI labs and lenders- Linda in Loudoun County, and what data centres do to a household electricity bill- How Meta rents its own Hyperion data centre, and why Steve Eisman reaches for Enron- Graham's pension: one capex cycle in four wrappers- Chip-backed loans, data-centre securitisations and a CDO question from London in 2000- Fintech funding splitting in two: Stripe and Revolut, then everyone else- Agentic payments: machines paying machines before consumers do- What happens to pensions and life insurance if the AI bubble bursts, and the likelier plateau- Four dated predictions, to be checked on 6 October 2027 Chapters: (00:00) - Cold open: Pokémon cards beat the Nasdaq (00:53) - San Francisco to Vegas: Metallica, then Money20/20 (01:39) - Singapore: fintech, fatherhood and F1 (02:16) - A confession: the one thing we got wrong (02:56) - Meeker, Evans and a16z's 90 slides (03:29) - Disclaimer (03:49) - A weather forecast from a man selling umbrellas (04:37) - Five mega trends, ten takeaways, one cauldron (05:15) - Mega trend 1: profits are outrunning prices (05:55) - A snake eating its own tail: $99bn of paper gains (06:53) - Mega trend 2: $780 billion of capex, on credit (07:58) - The merry-go-round and the three witches (09:06) - Mega trend 3: "Atoms are so back" (09:48) - Linda in Loudoun County: the $14 to $37 bill (10:40) - The GPUs arrive on time. The grid does not (11:07) - Mega trend 4: Jevons paradox and cheap intelligence (12:09) - The AI budget is your headcount (12:27) - Mega trend 5: unicorns outweigh the Russell 2000 (13:26) - Prof Z: how Meta rents its own $27bn data centre (14:38) - Eisman, Enron and where the risk ends up (15:05) - Part two: Graham in Surrey, Priya in Pune (15:54) - Takeaway 1: finance is the balance sheet of AI (16:42) - Takeaway 2: one bet in four wrappers (17:27) - Takeaway 3: a six-year loan on a chip (18:21) - London, 2000: "Nobody loses. Everybody wins." (20:13) - Takeaway 4: private markets, sold late to retail (21:03) - Takeaway 5: the fees are in power, not silicon (21:48) - Takeaway 6: fintech funding splits in two (22:29) - Takeaway 7: the bank's card ledger as macro data (23:04) - Takeaway 8: AI savings get competed away (24:18) - Takeaway 9: machines paying machines (25:08) - Takeaway 10: the assistant is the new shelf (25:45) - If the AI bubble bursts: seven days, day by day (27:57) - The adult in the room: correction, then hangover (28:34) - What happens to your pension if it bursts? (28:54) - Closing wagers: Anthropic or OpenAI to list first? (30:02) - The mic drop: the slide a16z didn't write Referenced in this episode: a16z, State of Markets II (30 September 2026); a16z's $1.1 billion AI hardware fund (28 August 2026); Goldman Sachs on Q2 investment gains; Meta Hyperion and Blue Owl; Moody's on $662 billion of leases not yet commenced; Chicago Fed on AI tail risk for banks; JLARC Virginia on household bills; the VoxEU study of about 1,200 utility territories; the Bank of England FPC record (30 September 2026); Mary Meeker's Internet Trends; Benedict Evans's annual presentation; Macbeth, Act 4, Scene 1.Related episodes: Why the AI Bubble Won't Burst (Even If They Say It Will); S2E28 — Revolut-ion; Could a Kitchen Table in Ohio Decide AI's Future in November?; S2E17 — SpaceX's $2 Trillion IPO vs the AI Listing Race; S2E16 — Polymarket, Kalshi and the $1B Bet on Who Knew First. Hosted by:Creators & Guests Aman Narain - Host Zubin Vandrevala - Host Aman Narain writes at amanwhoblogs.substack.com. Zubin Vandrevala is your payments provocateur.Enjoying A2Z Fintech? Leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. It is the single biggest signal to the Apple algorithm and how new listeners in our world find us. For information and entertainment only. Not financial advice. Transcript:Click here to view the episode transcript.

    AI Bubble: a16z Says No. So Who's Left Holding It?
  6. Sep 28

    S2E28 — Is This the Start of a Revolut-ion? Inside the Rise of Nik Storonsky's $115bn Bank

    Click here to watch a video of this episode. Revolut is valued at $115 billion, holds more than £50 billion of customer money, and lends out about £2 billion of it. What does a bank that refuses to lend actually do with a deposit, and what happens when the man who built it is the only part that cannot be automated? In September Nik Storonsky won conditional approval from the OCC to form Revolut Bank US, sat down with the Banque de France in a black suit and a red tie, and watched two data breaches reach Revolut customers inside a fortnight. The founder who spent years being publicly rude about regulators is now dressing for them, and for the investors who will price a Revolut listing at up to $200 billion. Aman Narain and Zubin Vandrevala trace Storonsky from Dolgoprudny and the Lehman trading floor to the Revolut of today, and ask whether he has built anything that works when he is not in the room. Key takeaways:1. Revolut's scar is Lehman, not Moscow: it lends under 5p of every deposit pound, where Nubank lends roughly 58p.2. Nubank, Revolut and SoFi run the same flywheel but answer one question differently: a deposit is for credit, for float, or for software.3. Removing credit risk bought rate risk. When rates fall the float shrinks, as Wise has already shown.4. Citi, HSBC and Standard Chartered retreating as Revolut advances is one spreadsheet read from opposite ends.5. Storonsky took judgment out of lending, hiring and investing, and kept all of it in one room: his own. Topics covered:- Dolgoprudny, the 1998 default, Phystech and the Lehman floor on 15 September 2008- A sub-5% loan-to-deposit ratio, the contested 40-50% return on equity, and the ECB's 4.5% capital add-on- Nubank, Revolut and SoFi: one flywheel, three ladders- Mexico's 15% savings rate, and the rate risk inside the float- Forty direct reports, Karma scores and five risk chiefs in seven years- Revolut Pay, Spanish ATMs, a £500,000 private bank, Revolut People and AIR- John Reed's Citi, success transfer, and the incumbents' retreat from retail- Ports versus platforms, and why Durbin may tax the US charter- The case against: fines, a secret ECB freeze, two breaches and sanctions- The IPO test, and two closing wagers Chapters: (00:00) - Cold open: Nik Storonsky's suit, Washington, April 2026 (01:09) - A risk episode, and the suit is the tell (01:39) - Zuckerberg's hoodie, and a tie for the central bank (02:42) - Disclaimer (03:31) - Dolgoprudny, 1984: a company town for physicists (04:54) - Two currency collapses before he turned fourteen (05:42) - The childhood hypothesis versus the trader's arbitrage (06:19) - Phystech: raw brain power, then character, then craft (06:59) - Lehman, 25 Bank Street, 15 September 2008 (08:12) - Credit Suisse, and his one rule on complex risk (08:56) - Six pence in every pound: the bank that won't lend (09:41) - The 40-50% return on equity claim, audited (10:24) - Zero risk weights and the ECB's 4.5% add-on (11:35) - Nubank vs Revolut: same flywheel, opposite ladders (13:27) - SoFi's third ladder: renting out the crown jewels (14:02) - What is a deposit for? Credit, float or software (14:50) - Mexico's 15% savings rate is a marketing budget (16:06) - The float's weather problem: rate cuts and Wise (17:02) - Inside the building: forty direct reports (17:43) - Jensen Huang's sixty, and the span-of-control question (19:36) - Karma: compliance priced into the bonus (21:06) - Hiring as a live exam, and millionaires in Krakow (22:08) - Five chief risk officers in seven years (22:34) - A different clock speed: 80 million customers (23:46) - Revolut Pay: an ad network with a checkout attached (25:01) - He built ATMs: Barcelona, Madrid, Milan (26:14) - Branches as billboards, and a £500,000 private bank (26:38) - Revolut People: the HR department became a product (27:35) - AIR: when super-app clutter becomes a moat (29:39) - The day the assistant moves money (29:56) - QuantumLight: taking judgment out of capital (31:04) - Risk doesn't vanish, it conserves (31:15) - Canary Wharf: Reuters, HSBC and Lehman in one view (32:20) - The oldest ambition in banking: to be everywhere (32:52) - John Reed, 1977: Citi builds its own ATMs (34:22) - Success transfer: Citigold, forty years early (35:17) - Nostalgia is not a strategy: the incumbents retreat (36:45) - Forty countries live, a hundred targeted (37:41) - Same spreadsheet, read from opposite ends (38:50) - They banked ports, he banks a platform (40:08) - Durbin: the US charter that may cost interchange (40:54) - A wager: will Revolut exit a country before 100? (41:58) - The founder's stake and the Jamie Dimon comparison (43:39) - Project Shasta: borrowing against his own shares (44:34) - Not the next Dimon: the next Elon (45:30) - Counting the parallels, from first principles to pay (47:26) - X.com, 1999: the everything bank Musk lost (48:17) - The case against: prosecution and defence (49:04) - Count one: fines and a secret ECB freeze (50:09) - Count two: 700 passports and a fake Italian request (53:02) - A second breach: DriveWealth (54:14) - Jackie Stewart: brakes let you go faster (55:05) - Count three: sanctions, and his father's designation (57:08) - The real test is a stock exchange (57:41) - On Wise's multiple, Revolut is a $27 billion company (59:02) - Ireland: four in five adults, but not the salary (01:00:00) - Closing wagers: credit in America or twenty directs? (01:00:47) - Has he built anything that works without him? (01:02:41) - Kitesurfing: the one variable he can't control Referenced in this episode: Revolut 2025 annual report; Revolut $115bn secondary share sale (July 2026); OCC conditional approval for Revolut Bank US (3 September 2026); ECB restrictions on new EEA products (from July 2025); fraudulent government data requests and the DriveWealth breach (September 2026); Storonsky in conversation with David Rubenstein (April 2026); the FT's Patrick Jenkins in Paris; Citi's 2021 consumer exits; John Reed and Citi's 1977 ATM network; Elon Musk's X.com (1999).Related episodes: Nubank and the Purple Revolution; Wedge, Ladder, Driver; S2E20 — The Real Price of PayPal. Hosted by:Creators & Guests Aman Narain - Host Zubin Vandrevala - Host Aman Narain writes at amanwhoblogs.substack.com. Zubin Vandrevala is your payments provocateur.Enjoying A2Z Fintech? Leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. It is the single biggest signal to the Apple algorithm and how new listeners in our world find us. For information and entertainment only. Not financial advice. Transcript:Click here to view the episode transcript.

    S2E28 — Is This the Start of a Revolut-ion? Inside the Rise of Nik Storonsky's $115bn Bank
  7. Sep 18

    $2 Trillion U-Turn: Did AI Just Grow a Conscience?

    Click here to watch a video of this episode. In seventy-two hours the AI industry asked to slow down, OpenAI shelved a trillion-dollar listing, and the President called the whole thing a hoax on speakerphone. Everyone called it the week AI flip-flopped; nobody did, and one supplier gets paid either way. On Saturday 12 September, Anthropic chief executive Dario Amodei published We Must Pace the Frontier, a call for an AI slowdown in how fast frontier models gain capability. Within hours Elon Musk replied "Dario is right" and Sam Altman told Fortune there would be no OpenAI IPO this year. By Monday, President Trump had called AI fears a hoax and phoned Jensen Huang live at the All-In Summit. The twist: the call for an AI slowdown came in the same quarter Anthropic booked $11.5 billion of revenue and positive adjusted operating profit. Aman Narain, solo this week while Zubin Vandrevala is in London, breaks down who actually wants an AI slowdown, who only says so, and who gets paid whichever way it goes. Key takeaways:1. Almost nobody changed position this week. What changed is which kind of doom each player chose to say out loud.2. Read the capex, the PAC cheques and the IPO calendar: what AI leaders say moves weekly, what they spend does not.3. The call for an AI slowdown arrived in the quarter Anthropic proved the frontier pays.4. Pacing is not stopping. In a boom Nvidia sells the training, in a slowdown it sells the testing, and inference carries on regardless.5. The doom that decides the US midterms is not extinction. It is the electricity bill of a voter who lives near a data centre. Topics covered:- Five things in fourteen days: escaped agents, a resignation, Nvidia buying Hugging Face, the essay, the speakerphone- A four-box map: AGI believers and sceptics, accelerators and restrainers, and the two people who move- Three dooms and two booms: extinction, displacement and deflation against capability and capital- Say versus pay: Sam Altman's four positions in eleven years- David Sacks's cartel charge, Jensen Huang's inspectors, and 100 gigawatts of physics- The circular trade: Nvidia's equity in its customers, and the Lucent precedent- Why an AI slowdown does not shrink Nvidia's order book- Data centres, power bills and the midterms- China: invoked everywhere, included nowhere- Four calls for 2026, including where Anthropic's IPO prices- Closing wagers: prophet or cynic? Chapters: (00:00) - Cold open: $2 trillion changes its mind (01:06) - Disclaimer (01:21) - Five things, fourteen days: agents slip the harness (01:48) - 150 million views and "Jacob is correct" (02:58) - Nvidia buys the platform that got attacked (03:15) - From Machines of Loving Grace to Pace the Frontier (04:22) - "Dario is right": Musk, Altman and a shelved IPO (04:46) - Whoever wins AI wins: the President on speakerphone (05:20) - The map: three dooms, two booms (06:29) - Who sits where, and the two who move (07:33) - Say versus pay: Altman's four positions (08:37) - $11.5 billion: pacing arrives the day it pays (09:52) - Going around the table: Sacks calls it a cartel (10:45) - Inspectors with staff badges (11:29) - 100 gigawatts: why the frontier was slowing anyway (12:01) - The circular trade: Nvidia's $50 billion loop (12:38) - We've seen this film: Lucent, Nortel, $8.1 billion (13:12) - Same machine, quieter number: the capex clock (13:44) - Two invoices from the same supplier (14:26) - The doom that votes: a retired teacher in Ohio (16:17) - China: invoked everywhere, included nowhere (18:21) - Four calls: Anthropic lists, OpenAI waits (18:58) - Damodaran's $1.2 trillion hurdle (19:34) - Concorde versus the 747 (19:57) - The midterms: her bill is the ballot paper (21:16) - Closing wagers: prophet or cynic? (23:01) - Doom is a language, capex is a fact (23:45) - Kierkegaard and the dizziness of freedom Referenced in this episode: Dario Amodei, We Must Pace the Frontier; Dario Amodei, Machines of Loving Grace; Jacob Coxon's resignation and Evan Hubinger's reply; Nvidia's $12.93bn agreement to acquire Hugging Face; Sam Altman's Fortune interview; the All-In Summit call between President Trump and Jensen Huang; Anthropic and OpenAI Q2 2026 results as reported by the FT, CNBC and WSJ; Aswath Damodaran on Anthropic's valuation; Annenberg Public Policy Center polling on data centres; Lucent and Nortel vendor financing; Søren Kierkegaard, The Concept of Anxiety.Related episodes: SpaceX, Anthropic, OpenAI: The $2tn IPO Boom; Google I/O 2026: Sundar Pichai's 25-Year AI Long Game; S2E24 on Google's AI leadership reshuffle. Hosted by:Creators & Guests Aman Narain - Host Aman Narain writes at amanwhoblogs.substack.com. Zubin Vandrevala, your payments provocateur, sat this one out in London.Enjoying A2Z Fintech? Leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. It is the single biggest signal to the Apple algorithm and how new listeners in our world find us. For information and entertainment only. Not financial advice. Transcript:

    $2 Trillion U-Turn: Did AI Just Grow a Conscience?
  8. Sep 14

    AI Shopping Wars. Why OpenAI Quit. Google Didn't and Anthropic Went Free.

    Click here to watch a video of this episode. Walmart's checkout inside ChatGPT converted at a third of the rate of its own site, and six months later OpenAI shut Instant Checkout with twelve Shopify merchants still live. On 2 September, Anthropic shipped the opposite architecture for agentic commerce and took nothing on the sale. What Anthropic learned, why Google is quietly winning, and why the agent that matters is the one lenders want. On Wednesday 2 September, Anthropic open sourced two reference agents for agentic commerce: one facing the shopper, one facing the merchant. They place no orders, touch no card credentials, and hand the cart back to the merchant's own checkout. Shopify, Visa, Mastercard and Accenture were partners on day one. The twist is that OpenAI had already tried to own that checkout, charged 4% on completed orders for the privilege, and watched merchants leave. Meanwhile Google turned the same in-chat checkout on inside Gemini via Google Pay, with Gap live, and can price it at zero for as long as it likes. Aman Narain, solo from Hong Kong this week, breaks down why the agentic commerce fight was never about whether AI can shop but about whether the AI shows up as a supplier or a landlord, and why the agentic commerce blueprint Anthropic gave away is really a distribution channel for embedded lending. Key takeaways:1. A percentage of revenue is rent: it scales with your success and cannot be engineered down, which is why merchants walked away from OpenAI's 4% fee.2. Compute is an input like electricity: it can be cached, shrunk and negotiated, which is why Anthropic priced itself as a supplier.3. Walmart's 3x conversion gap did not prove agents cannot shop. It proved the cash register was in the wrong place.4. Google runs agentic commerce checkout at 0% because it makes its money one layer up in advertising, and that is precisely its trap.5. The merchant agent is an underwriting file assembling itself in real time, which is why Shopify, Stripe and Square, all lenders, integrated on day one. Topics covered:- Walmart's ChatGPT experiment and OpenAI's retreat to discovery- The mechanics of Anthropic's commerce agents: no orders, no cards, no cut- Rent versus compute: why a 4% take rate wipes a direct-to-consumer margin- Three lessons Anthropic welded into the plumbing: price, till, guardrails- Google's Universal Commerce Protocol, Gap on Gemini, and the advertising trap- The 35% larger cart claim, and why vendor-reported ceilings are not forecasts- Shopify switching agentic storefronts on by default- The merchant agent as a real-time underwriting file: Square, Shopify Capital, and the Tuesday stockout- Three companies, three postures, and the closing wager: research lab or underwriter? Chapters:Referenced in this episode: Anthropic Claude Commerce Agents blueprint (2 September 2026); OpenAI Instant Checkout wind-down (March 2026); Walmart's Shoptalk conversion disclosure; Google Universal Commerce Protocol and Gap's Gemini checkout; Google Universal Cart at I/O 2026; Shopify Agentic Storefronts; Square Loans 2024 originations; Shopify Capital; Fast Company reporting on Gemini checkout. Related episodes: SpaceX, Anthropic, OpenAI: The $2tn IPO Boom; Google I/O 2026: Sundar Pichai's 25-Year AI Long Game; Mastercard's $1.8B Power Move: Why They Outbid Coinbase for BVNK. Hosted by:Creators & Guests Aman Narain - Host Aman Narain writes at amanwhoblogs.substack.com. Zubin Vandrevala, your payments provocateur, returns next episode.Enjoying A2Z Fintech? Leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. It is the single biggest signal to the Apple algorithm and how new listeners in our world find us. For information and entertainment only. Not financial advice. Transcript:Click here to view the episode transcript.

    AI Shopping Wars. Why OpenAI Quit. Google Didn't and Anthropic Went Free.

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About

Aman Narain and Zubin Vandrevala have spent over 25 years in fintech across Banks, BigTech, and Startups. This is a podcast of them riffing on payments, fintech and everything in between.

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