ExperiMENTAL Marketing | Playbooks to measure and scale Marketing ROI

Sundar Swaminathan
  • 5.0 (2)
  • MARKETING

For B2C marketers, founders, and analysts who are tired of surface-level advice and ready to cut through the noise with smarter, data-informed decisions. Host Sundar Swaminathan, former Head of Brand Data Science at Uber and creator of the ExperiMENTAL newsletter, shares real-world insights, ROI breakdowns, and growth strategies from leaders at companies like Uber, Google, and Faire.Each episode helps you move from guesswork to grounded strategy so you can drive impact, prove marketing value, and lead with confidence.If you're ready to think critically, test boldly, and grow with clarity, ExperiMENTAL is your bi-weekly dose of thought-provoking, data-savvy marketing wisdom.New episodes every second Thursday on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube.

  1. JAN 29

    The engineer turned CMO fixing Marketing Measurement | Pranav Piyush (Reforge, Adobe, Dropbox)

    Pranav Piyush is the CEO of Paramark , where he's devoting the next 15 years of his life to solving Marketing Measurement. In our conversation, he shares his journey from engineering to marketing at companies like Adobe, Dropbox, and Reforge emphasizing the importance of measurement and experimentation in marketing. He also discusses the challenges faced by CMOs, the need for a culture of experimentation, and the significance of strategy in marketing efforts. Takeaways Marketing measurement is dysfunctional and he saw a glaring gap when he was a Marketing leaderCMOs face short tenures because of unrealistic expectations from the C-suite but also self inflicted A culture of experimentation is crucial for marketing success.Failure in experiments is common and should be embraced as a learning opportunity.Creative strategy is as important as tactical execution in marketing.The future of marketing lies in continuous adaptation and innovation. In this episode, we cover: 00:00 Introduction to Pranav Piyush and Paramark 01:41 Pranav's Journey into Marketing 05:29 The Challenges of Marketing Measurement 08:07 Bridging the Gap: Art and Science in Marketing 11:44 Understanding CMO Challenges 16:09 Building a Culture of Experimentation 21:42 Strategy vs. Execution in Creative Marketing 25:06 The Importance of Roadmaps in Marketing 27:16 Innovative Experiences at Dropbox 29:46 Lessons from Failed Experiments 33:37 Finding Product-Market Fit 37:34 Building Relationships with Major Clients 42:09 Choosing the Right Marketing Vendor 47:14 Understanding Marketing MetricsListen to the ExperiMENTAL Marketing podcast on Apple, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts New episodes every Thursday at 6 AM GMT+2. Also, check out the experiMENTAL newsletter: https://experimental.beehiiv.com/subscribe

    51 min

  2. JAN 8

    How to grow users by fixing conversion not traffic | Adam Miller (Uber, Turo, Postmates)

    In this conversation, Adam Miller shares his extensive experience in user acquisition across various marketplaces, including Turo, Postmates, and Uber. We discuss the evolution of user acquisition strategies, the importance of creative processes, and the collaboration between marketing and product teams. Adam also highlights common mistakes founders make in user acquisition and his contrarian views on the topic. He emphasizes the need for a balanced approach to supply and demand in marketplaces and the challenges of attribution in user acquisition. Takeaways User acquisition strategies have evolved significantly over the years, especially with the rise of mobile.In 2025, user acquisition will rely heavily on automated systems and algorithms.Creative processes should start with identifying unique value propositions (UVPs).Collaboration between marketing and product teams is crucial for effective user acquisition.Founders often make the mistake of relying too heavily on paid advertising too early. In this episode, we cover: 00:00 Coming up 00:57 Adam's Journey 03:27 User Acquisition Strategies at Turo, Postmates, and Uber 09:16 Navigating User Acquisition During COVID-19 14:17 The Evolution of User Acquisition in 2025 18:00 Creative Strategies for Effective User Acquisition 19:52 Collaboration Between Marketing and Product Teams 25:35 Common Mistakes Founders Make in User Acquisition 28:29 Contrarian Views on Education and Career Paths 33:28 Future Trends in User Acquisition and Market Dynamics Join the newsletter: https://experimental.beehiiv.com/subscribe

    45 min

  3. 11/27/2025

    How marketing teams mistake motion for progress | Mattia Santin (ContentSquare, Hotjar, Uber)

    What if your biggest growth unlock wasn’t more speed, but better structure? In this episode of ExperiMENTAL, host Sundar Swaminathan sits down with Mattia Santin, SVP of Brand, Growth & Operations at ContentSquare, former CMO at Hotjar, and former marketing leader at Uber. They dive deep into the B2B vs. B2C debate, why product marketing is the missing engine in many orgs, and what Mattia learned running $300M+ in global media. From in-housing entire teams to turning off ad spend for bold tests, this episode offers hard-won insights for every marketing leader who wants to scale without burning out.KEY TAKEAWAYS • Product marketing should be a two-way street, not a ticketing system• B2B and B2C are more alike than people think, speed is the main difference• The structure of your marketing team affects everything: agility, trust, impact• “Zigzagging your way to growth” creates chaos and burnout• Build the engine before you slam the gas pedal• Foundations matter more than speed; solid data systems are non-negotiable• Product marketing teams need clarity, resilience, and executive support• Testing assumptions (even expensive ones) leads to clarity and efficiency• Leadership buy-in is essential for bold experiments• Attribution isn’t just a metric problem, it’s a culture problemBEST MOMENTS 00:03:02. “It’s been fascinating to observe... a lot more similarities than people think.”00:05:06. “I knew I wasn’t going to be at companies for 18 years... that wasn’t my path.”00:08:00. “Hotjar had an amazing brand, but competition was rising. It was time to pivot.”00:10:13. “I've worked in squad setups and functional models... and I prefer functional.”00:16:02. “You don’t want a car zigzagging its way through strategy.”00:23:36. “Product marketing teams will suffer without clarity and structure.”00:37:45. “We turned off all display spend for a week… and nothing happened.” 🎧 ExperiMENTAL is hosted by Sundar Swaminathan, Head of Data Science at Bounce and former Uber leader. This show is your behind-the-scenes look at how top marketers and data scientists make smarter decisions. 🧠 Expect unfiltered conversations, mental models, and case studies that help you cut waste, build conviction, and grow your B2C business. 📬 Subscribe to the ExperiMENTAL newsletter for deep dives and frameworks: https://experimental.beehiiv.com/This podcast has been brought to you by APodcastGeek. https://www.apodcastgeek.com

    48 min

  4. 11/13/2025

    How to build 0 → impactful Marketing Science teams | Sebastian Hewing (Zalando, Rocket, eBay)

    How do you build a data team that actually drives business outcomes?  In this episode of ExperiMENTAL, host Sundar Swaminathan sits down with Sebastian Hewing, Data & AI Advisor to C-Level leaders in VC and PE-backed companies, and ex-Rocket Internet, to uncover what most companies get wrong about building and scaling data teams. From startup chaos to structured experimentation, Sebastian shares his three-step consulting framework, lessons from over 40 implementations, and what it really takes to empower “super users” and stop being a dashboard factory. If you’re a data leader, growth marketer, or founder tired of surface-level advice, this episode is your blueprint.KEY TAKEAWAYS• Most companies suffer from solution-first thinking instead of problem-first frameworks• Data teams need to be business-driven, not just tech-stacked• Hiring analytics engineers early enables speed, clarity, and better decisions• “Super users” are the missing link between tech and business• Sebastian uses a 3-step productized consulting approach: Discover, Build, Empower• Complexity isn’t just technical, it’s human, organizational, and strategic• AI can supercharge teams, but only when tied to real pain points• Founders, CMOs, and CTOs feel different “data pains” at different company stages• Scaling data teams requires repeatable playbooks, not custom chaos• The Data Collective was built to fix the mentorship gap and noise in data leadershipBEST MOMENTS00:03:23. “CTOs have to ship product, but end up fixing broken spaghetti queries.”00:05:29. “The higher the marketing budget, the more you can gain with proper data stuff.”00:08:25. “Step three is where I empower the organization to use that data foundation.”00:13:02. “The super user is a business stakeholder who can self-serve 80% of the time.”00:16:07. “They don’t have any skin in the game. The marketing manager does.”00:20:12. “People say this analytics engineer doesn’t exist, but I’ve never had an issue finding one.”00:26:48. “My vision is a context-aware analytics agent that knows your goals and actions.”00:40:17. “The wrong way is: let me put AI into everything. The right way is: pick one real problem.” 🎧 ExperiMENTAL is hosted by Sundar Swaminathan, Head of Data Science at Bounce and former Uber leader. This show is your behind-the-scenes look at how top marketers and data scientists make smarter decisions. 🧠 Expect unfiltered conversations, mental models, and case studies that help you cut waste, build conviction, and grow your B2C business. 📬 Subscribe to the ExperiMENTAL newsletter for deep dives and frameworks: https://experimental.beehiiv.com/This podcast has been brought to you by APodcastGeek. https://www.apodcastgeek.com

    49 min

  5. 10/30/2025

    How to pick KPIs that aren't too shallow | Russell Tischler (Fundrise, Uber, MLB)

    🎯 Is your marketing KPI lying to you?In this episode of ExperiMENTAL, host Sundar Swaminathan sits down with Russell Tischler, VP of Marketing at Fundrise, to dismantle the myth of “good enough” metrics. From building predictive models that forecast investor behavior to questioning the ROI of lift tests, Russell shares hard-earned lessons from his time at Uber and Fundrise.If you're a B2C marketer, data scientist, or growth leader wondering how to prioritize the right metrics without wasting time or budget, this episode will completely reframe your thinking.Get ready for deep insight, no fluff, and some well-earned hot takes.KEY TAKEAWAYS• Shallow KPIs are often misleading and can hold back meaningful growth• Fundrise built a day-90 model to better predict long-term investor value• The 90-day predictive model offered better accuracy than day-1 projections• High-capacity investors often start small, making early conversion data deceptive• Fundrise balances low-dollar, high-volume vs. high-dollar, low-volume acquisition channels• Direct mail is unexpectedly powerful for trust and high-value targeting• First-touch attribution is underrated, especially for category-creating businesses• Startups should optimize for speed of learning, not perfect measurement• Most lift tests aren’t worth running if the gain is under 10%• The best growth moves feel obvious, no stats needed to prove itBEST MOMENTS00:01:59. “What I do is use too shallow of a metric, and I’ve tried to help move us further into the customer journey.”00:03:07. “How do we differentiate when we’re acquiring one of the 20% that's super valuable versus someone who churns quickly?”00:04:43. “You can see where only looking at somebody's conversion behavior can be misguided.”00:06:05. “The best growth marketers deeply understand the business and analytics, not just KPIs.”00:09:02. “We started with wanting a 12-month payback period... the cost per dollar fundraising target.”00:16:18. “We've been able to be pretty accurate by combining the human element with the model approach.”00:26:42. “Direct mail has been awesome for large investors, really credentializing.”00:38:06. “Almost any time we've done something really successful, it’s just obvious.” 🎧 ExperiMENTAL is hosted by Sundar Swaminathan, Head of Data Science at Bounce and former Uber leader. This show is your behind-the-scenes look at how top marketers and data scientists make smarter decisions. 🧠 Expect unfiltered conversations, mental models, and case studies that help you cut waste, build conviction, and grow your B2C business. 📬 Subscribe to the ExperiMENTAL newsletter for deep dives and frameworks: https://experimental.beehiiv.com/This podcast has been brought to you by APodcastGeek. https://www.apodcastgeek.com

    48 min
  6. How PMMs should adopt a product manager’s mindset to drive impact | Damian Valdes (Spotify, Meta)

    10/16/2025

    How PMMs should adopt a product manager’s mindset to drive impact | Damian Valdes (Spotify, Meta)

    What if product marketing was the secret weapon your growth strategy is missing? In this episode of ExperiMENTAL, Sundar sits down with Damian Valdes, Associate Director of Product Marketing at Spotify, to reveal why product marketers are often the most underutilized force in tech. From launching features like Spotify Jam to designing internal growth experiments, Damian breaks down how PMMs shape product roadmaps, avoid cannibalization, and influence business outcomes beyond campaign performance. Whether you're scaling a feature, debating when to hire your first marketer, or trying to find product-market fit, this conversation will change the way you think about marketing’s role in building great products. KEY TAKEAWAYS• What product marketers actually do• Why startups often bring PMMs in too late• The link between product marketing and product management• How Spotify PMMs balance campaign work with feature development• The risk of muddy messaging in wide product portfolios• How Damian used the Jobs-To-Be-Done framework to shape product decisions• How in-app promotions became a growth lever at Spotify• Why experienced hires matter more than “scrappy generalists” at early stage• How to prioritize work using the Eisenhower matrix• The importance of consumer empathy from L’Oréal to Meta to Spotify BEST MOMENTS00:02:05. “We serve as the voice of the consumer.”00:03:17. “It solves the problem around people hogging the chord at a social get together.”00:05:22. “You run the risk of maybe cannibalizing the two versus because like truly incremental.”00:06:58. “Product is brand. Brand is product. Consumers don’t differentiate.”00:10:04. “We included things that weren’t yet launched... that actually informed the product roadmap.”00:12:55. “Good marketing is strategy. You can’t remove marketing from it.”00:17:47. “If it’s measurable, then it’s manageable.”00:27:07. “Spotify is a company that’s willing to take big bets.”00:35:23. “Beauty is such a personal decision. It says so much about who you are.” 🎧 ExperiMENTAL is hosted by Sundar Swaminathan, Head of Data Science at Bounce and former Uber leader. This show is your behind-the-scenes look at how top marketers and data scientists make smarter decisions. 🧠 Expect unfiltered conversations, mental models, and case studies that help you cut waste, build conviction, and grow your B2C business. 📬 Subscribe to the ExperiMENTAL newsletter for deep dives and frameworks: https://experimental.beehiiv.com/This podcast has been brought to you by APodcastGeek. https://www.apodcastgeek.com

    50 min
  7. How to not f*ck up CRM onboarding | Karan Tibdewal (Blinkist, MyFitnessPal, HelloFresh)

    10/02/2025

    How to not f*ck up CRM onboarding | Karan Tibdewal (Blinkist, MyFitnessPal, HelloFresh)

    Mastering CRM: From Paper Notes to Lifecycle Growth In this episode of ExperiMENTAL, host Sundar sits down with Karan Tibdewal, The CRM Guy™️ and trusted CRM advisor to top subscription apps. Together, they trace CRM's journey from Rolodex-era notes to today’s role as a strategic lever for growth. Whether you’re leading lifecycle marketing or wondering if CRM is still relevant, this episode reveals what great looks like, what most teams miss, and why onboarding might be completely broken. With practical frameworks and sharp insights, this is CRM like you’ve never heard it before. Key Takeaways• CRM started as a Rolodex and has evolved into lifecycle engagement• The definition of CRM has shifted from sales to relationship management• Subscription CRM is harder to measure but more relationship-driven• E-commerce CRM delivers clearer ROI but less long-term impact• Most onboarding flows are outdated and show no positive ROI• The difference between onboarding and activation is often misunderstood• CRM teams fail when siloed and thrive when integrated with product• Frameworks like Reach, Relevance, Frequency help prioritize CRM work• Consistency in brand and creative is often overlooked in CRM execution• The ENCAM framework helps teams build stronger reward programs Best Moments00:00:12. “The first CRM tool was in the 1980s. People were doing stuff on the Rolodex or they would have these paper notes.”00:03:57. “CRM has shifted from buying or not buying, to engagement and personalization.”00:06:28. “There’s no consistency in what good CRM looks like between companies.”00:09:21. “CRM in subscriptions means understanding usage and preferences, not just pushing messages.”00:13:25. “I have never seen a positive ROI from onboarding comms.”00:15:21. “My moment is not my first workout. It’s when I feel like the program is working.”00:18:15. “I need to be an Alfred to your Batman. Help you around and understand where you are in your life.”00:25:08. “At a CRM level, everything you send is a factor of reach, relevance, and frequency.”00:33:16. “Consistency is everything about keeping them on, keeping them motivated to achieve goals.”00:41:14. “Usually what I do is… work with teams that have strong growth but underutilized CRM.” 🎧 ExperiMENTAL is hosted by Sundar Swaminathan, Head of Data Science at Bounce and former Uber leader. This show is your behind-the-scenes look at how top marketers and data scientists make smarter decisions. 🧠 Expect unfiltered conversations, mental models, and case studies that help you cut waste, build conviction, and grow your B2C business. 📬 Subscribe to the ExperiMENTAL newsletter for deep dives and frameworks: https://experimental.beehiiv.com/This podcast has been brought to you by APodcastGeek. https://www.apodcastgeek.com

    49 min
  8. How to transition from short to long term ROI | Lauren Sutkowski (Insurify, Chewy, Wayfair)

    09/17/2025

    How to transition from short to long term ROI | Lauren Sutkowski (Insurify, Chewy, Wayfair)

    Why Brand Building Isn’t Just for CPG: Lessons From Wayfair and Chewy In this episode of ExperiMENTAL, host Sundar dives into the overlooked pivot from hypergrowth to brand building with Lauren Sutkowski, Head of Brand Marketing at Insurify and former marketing leader at Chewy and Wayfair. This isn't a fluffy chat. It’s a real, practical breakdown of what happens when the growth engine starts sputtering and brand finally takes the wheel. From internal education to channel strategy, Lauren shares what most marketers miss about timing, targeting, and team alignment. If you’ve ever struggled to prove the ROI of brand or wondered when to stop chasing paid search and start building unaided awareness, this one is for you. Key Takeaways: • Every consumer-facing team member should know your customer and how they buy • You can't build a flywheel by chasing only high-intent acquisition • Slow growth is often the trigger that forces brand investment • Retention requires deep cross-functional collaboration and clarity • Price is rarely enough of a differentiator, even with strong CX • Wayfair succeeded by tightening audience focus on high-LTV segments • You can’t be everything to everyone and expect retention to work • Internal brand education needs to touch finance, data, ops, and merch • YouTube and Meta may be more crutch than brand builders • Brand impact takes time, patience, and serious measurement commitment Best Moments:  00:03:18. “Isn't it just keep paying for those customers like you're not really...there's no way to build this strong flywheel.” 00:05:07. “Growth had slowed...it felt like we had started to plateau.” 00:09:10. “A bit more storytelling, a bit more just like, solving their problems.” 00:12:27. “I want to feel like I'm aligning myself with a brand I fully believe in.” 00:14:39. “This is how we retain them. It's not just price point.” 00:17:00. “If you say too many things to your customers, it's a great way to tell them nothing.” 00:19:19. “I think the biggest thing starts with internal education.” 00:34:51. “You can hide not knowing who your audience is really well in those platforms.” 🎧 ExperiMENTAL is hosted by Sundar Swaminathan, Head of Data Science at Bounce and former Uber leader. This show is your behind-the-scenes look at how top marketers and data scientists make smarter decisions. 🧠 Expect unfiltered conversations, mental models, and case studies that help you cut waste, build conviction, and grow your B2C business. 📬 Subscribe to the ExperiMENTAL newsletter for deep dives and frameworks: https://experimental.beehiiv.com/This podcast has been brought to you by APodcastGeek. https://www.apodcastgeek.com

    45 min
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For B2C marketers, founders, and analysts who are tired of surface-level advice and ready to cut through the noise with smarter, data-informed decisions. Host Sundar Swaminathan, former Head of Brand Data Science at Uber and creator of the ExperiMENTAL newsletter, shares real-world insights, ROI breakdowns, and growth strategies from leaders at companies like Uber, Google, and Faire.Each episode helps you move from guesswork to grounded strategy so you can drive impact, prove marketing value, and lead with confidence.If you're ready to think critically, test boldly, and grow with clarity, ExperiMENTAL is your bi-weekly dose of thought-provoking, data-savvy marketing wisdom.New episodes every second Thursday on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube.

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