The Clearing

Carrie's podcast

The Clearing is a project to capture my current process of sense making with others - a pod for my friends (except that was a mouthful). The intention is to focus strictly on topics that interest me and people I love listening to. Aiming to avoid pieties, performance, or excessive edification. Themes may emerge. Recording and sharing is an experiment, in the hope that something may resonate usefully with someone - if so, I’m curious to hear about it. carrie802897.substack.com

  1. 4d ago

    #27 - The kids could be alright (with Nicholas Budny)

    What’s it like for the particular slice of Gen Z who grew up on social media, but got AI in college? How do researchers approach the “mechanistic interpretability” of large language models that have no hard-coded logic or values? How can AI research help us understand our own and other minds, at individual and population level? Nicholas Budny is my little cousin. At 22, he’s the youngest guest I’ve had on the pod to date, and a lovely and very articulate one. This is a conversation about growing up various degrees of technology-‘native’, and also a snapshot of a generation before fully adult routines, calcifications or fearfulness have set in. I came away from it with a refreshed sense of the inherently upbeat tendencies of youth, which contribute a special energy to the world. Also, that thoughtfulness and competence did not run out after us millennials took our share. This episode was recorded a little while ago (summer ’26). So once again, an AI disclaimer: I’m painfully aware that any conversation that even brushes up against AI will seem out of touch by the standards of those deeper into the subject. And very quickly, it will become outdated by any standard. Nonetheless, I initiate them in the spirit of citizen amateurism, which I believe to be more important than ever at this time: if expertise and up-to-dateness are increasingly outsourceable, then daring to ask one’s own questions in human conversation becomes the real necessity. [Music outro credit: “April Joy” — music by Pat Metheny. Performed by the Pat Metheny Group. From the the album “ECM”, 1978] This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit carrie802897.substack.com

  2. Sep 17

    #26 - On Midlife, Philosophy, AI, and Nolan’s Odyssey (with Markus Gabriel)

    What is it about midlife that hits so many of us as unexpectedly liberating? Does the meaning of concepts inevitably become richer with experience? When it does, how is that philosophically relevant? And, does a middle aged spirit animate Christopher Nolan’s Odyssey? There isn’t much by way of terrain that the philosopher Markus Gabriel won’t touch. Best known for founding the philosophical movement of “New Realism”, his most recent book is “Ethical Intelligence”, an optimistic take on the possibility for human moral improvement through lucid partnership with AI. He holds the chair for Epistemology, Modern and Contemporary Philosophy at the University of Bonn, where he also directs the International Centre for Philosophy. Markus is also a neighbour and friend, with whom it’s always fun to have a winding and occasionally spicy conversation. [AI disclaimer - I’m painfully aware any conversation that even brushes AI will seem touchingly out of touch by the standards of those deeper into the subject. And very quickly, it will become outdated by any standard. Still, I do it in the spirit of citizen amateurism, which I believe to be more important than ever in the age of AI: if expertise and up-to-dateness are increasingly supplementable, then daring to ask one’s own questions in human conversation becomes the real necessity.] Music outro credit: from The Trial of the Bow / Vengeance, Music by Ludwig GöranssonFrom The Odyssey (Original Motion Picture Soundtrack), a film by Christopher Nolan This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit carrie802897.substack.com

  3. Sep 2

    #25 - Ecology, science and humility (with Rachael Winfree)

    What is it to be “scientifically minded”? At the scale of Nature, how predictive are the mechanisms we can analyze experimentally? Is something more true when we can express it with elegant math? If science is about understanding what is, then the goal in science, as in philosophy, should be to “see clearly and to see whole.” But the scientific method, as well as the scientific temperament, demands replicability and generalisability. So the object of study is isolated and variables controlled, which in the case of living organisms means that scientists must draw variously artificial boundaries. The field of ecology and evolutionary biology —or, Life Itself— has a way of pushing back against such reductionism, when conclusions arrived at in this way don’t scale up. The goal after all is not to dis-assemble in order to re-engineer (or at least, any biosphere-level re-engineering is much, much further down the line). The more humble objective of just understanding what is in fact going on turns out to be much harder than one might think. Rachael Winfree is a Distinguished Professor in the Department of Ecology, Evolution, and Natural Resources at Rutgers University. The goal of her work is to better understand the causes and consequences of biodiversity change, particularly in real-world settings and at large spatial scales, primarily by studying bee pollinators and pollination as a model system. I loved this conversation. It somewhat clarified for me something I’ve been mulling for a long time: how to characterize the big unsatisfactory conceptual knot at the heart of the well-intentioned “ecosystem services” framework for nature conservation. Nature is unimaginably complex, stochastic, beautiful and inter-dependent; attempts to specify and price the “services” we get and need from nature are about as reductive as Skinner’s stimulus-response approach to understanding behaviour, applied to childhood development. Or a nexus-of-contracts theory of the firm, for that matter. Such accounts are somewhat mechanistically predictive in a very artificial frame, but brutal and irrelevant at the scale of actual life. This doesn’t answer the thorny policy questions of how to think about trade-offs between conservation and other worthy aims, even from a purely human-centric view. But it was a very good reminder that we’d best not dissect our umbilical cord while it sustains us, and even sophisticated accounting is at most a map, never the territory. Music outro credit: "Jerusalem: Responsorio segundo de S. S. José" — music by Ignacio de Jerúsalem. Performed by Chanticleer, directed by Joseph Jennings, with Chanticleer Sinfonia. From the album Mexican Baroque: Music from New Spain (1994). This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit carrie802897.substack.com

  4. Jul 29

    #24 - Psychological types (ii): a canter through the Enneagram (with Michael Ceragioli)

    Why are so many thoughtful people I know obsessed with the Enneagram? It’s easy to find deep-dive content, but really hard to find a reasonably compact overview that would help one decide whether to go for the deep dive. Having tried and failed (in a good way) in episode #23 to get an analysis from an enneatype 4 of how he would navigate the Enneagram framework in relation, I realised I needed to identify an enneatype 5 for the task. And lo and behold, having found one, he rattled off a really efficient overview map of the nine types, pointing out how they’re all distinctly familiar, how they typically relate to each other, and how thinking in this way can be illuminating relationally and spiritually. Thus far, the typology works. Michael Ceragioli is a scholar of Christian spirituality, and his explanation is methodical and systemic—as you’d expect from a self-professed enneatype 5. The focus of his work with the Enneagram is in supporting a path of spiritual transformation, but he is not dogmatic about any of those concepts. This is a pretty dense conversation—I invited a download. It’s also shot through with Michael’s characteristically practical insights and humour, so that it did not seem long to me. If like me you’ve been skimming around the enneatypes and you’re struggling for orientation, it’s a really useful review and clarification of how the types makes sense individually and within the framework. Music outro credit: “Metamorphosis” — MLCK This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit carrie802897.substack.com

  5. Jul 29

    #23 - Psychological types (i): an Intuitive’s view (with River Kenna)

    Every day I encounter (and perpetuate) the casual use of pop-psychological terms to describe personality types - we talk about left-brain-y vs. right-brain-y people, attachment styles, Enneagram types, drama triangles, introversion and extroversion… But how much do such frameworks help us to constructively understand ourselves better, versus simply justifying our foibles? How illuminating are they for understanding resonance or conflict in relationship, the things that trigger or befuddle us about other people? River Kenna is, for these purposes, an Intuitive. I try to pin him down on his favourite personalty type framework, but it turns out he holds them all pretty lightly, orienting first and foremost towards an intuitive grasp of Gestalt. Analysis is only good for filling in the gaps, a working theory of mind helpful to the extent it facilitates the “prosthetic empathy” that is available on perceiving another’s innocence. It’s that way around, he would argue, that we really understand anything at all. This is a suitably meandering conversation. We talk about our culture’s fixation with “left-braininess” and the tendency to rationally check intuitions, but fail to intuitively check rationalisations; the “existential kink” of recurring relationship patterns; and the benefits of having some understanding of one’s own psychological and attachment vulnerabilities when interfacing with other minds (including AI). One insight that I found particularly helpful: there is something extremely connective about understanding another’s core fear. Even if it is not one’s own primary fear, it’s usually possible to recognise and sympathise with a vulnerability, more than the impulses or convictions that might be downstream from it. It might not make a person one finds irritating more congenial, but it potentially creates a way to understand and humanise them. Music outro credit: “Ooh Child” — MILCK This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit carrie802897.substack.com

  6. Jun 26

    # 21 - German Romanticism, a Legacy of Beauty and of Hungry Ghosts (with Helmut Schneider)

    What is the connection between Turner’s ethereal paintings of the Rhine and today’s nativist stories, in Germany and across the pond? How is it that the Romantics venerated individual sensitivity and universalist ideals, and yet prominent Romantic thinkers were so often beguiled by authoritarians? Why did Fascists find it so easy to repurpose this soft, dreamy material for their own ends? Thomas Mann was scathing about it: he famously described the Nazi project as German Romanticism “breaking out into hysterical barbarism.” Whether or not the average person in Germany is aware of this line of thinking, I do think some glimmer of it echoes in the plain, functional aesthetic - a fear that next to something pretty or moving could be the abyss. This has always struck me in contrast to the British nostalgia for frills and bunting, or the catchy sentimentalism of American Country music. People in Germany flirt with the vibe of course, in the ubiquitous opera houses, at Oktoberfest and with garden gnomes - but it has to be historic or formalized or a bit silly, and so ultimately deniable. Helmut Schneider is Professor Emeritus for Modern German Literature at Bonn University (with stints abroad, explaining this material to the anglosphere), so he seemed like a good person to answer such questions. His own interest in the period was fuelled more by the beauty of the language, the poetry in particular, than by its historical or political dimensions. But I was particularly struck by one of his psychological observations: that the Romantics’ preoccupation with the internal, with feeling, particularity, mysticism, and Nature writ large made them uninterested in institution building, or the frictionful mechanics of government. As a result, they were susceptible to anyone promising them a safe container for their solipsism. Kind of obvious and tracks to the stereotype at an individual level, but I’d never thought it through. It’s a squeamischness about mixing one’s creative labor with the outside world, whether in technology, commerce or politics. But failing to participate in shaping a society that values and protects what they contribute is a problem for any sensitive free spirit. The uncategorizable Goethe provides a possible answer, in an early 19th century survey of mediveal German art (that had been looted out of Church and feudal settings by the French). Against his contemporaries’ calls for a German Louvre, Goethe argued that the art should remain distributed, embedded in its historical locals and accessible to the population. Instead of a great central insitution, he advised the Kaiser that the way to elevate regional treasures was to strengthen their connectedness, into a web of culture that would incorporate the characters of particular settings. It was through greater communicative connection that the work would become an organic whole, greater than the sum of its parts. Music outro credit: "Mondnacht" — music by Robert Schumann, text by Joseph von Eichendorff. Performed by Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau (baritone) and Günther Weissenborn (piano). This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit carrie802897.substack.com

  7. Jun 9

    #20 - Re-visioning breast cancer care (with Bettina Wolfgarten)

    Dr. Bettina Wolfgarten is a third generation radiologist specialising in breast cancer. As we unpack what this means, it turns out the technology has changed so much that the job would be unrecognizable to her grandfather. But the throughline remains strong, in Bettina’s telling: a fundamental drive to look into the body as deeply and precisely as possible, embracing emerging technologies in an entrepreneurial way. The courage required to be decisive, and the importance of human trust even when the work is deeply technical. What stands out is how Bettina insists that the way she and the team (including her husband, indefatigable Dr. Matthias Wolfgarten) work should always help the whole person. Their combined practice and complementary offering at Forum Wolfgarten seeks to model what humane, holistic care along the entire patient journey could look like. Beyond their clinical work, they have founded the inter-disciplinary non-profit f.em to promote education, best practices, and civil society engagement at the interface between acute healthcare and healing. It’s truely astonishing what Bettina and Matthias do every day to better diagnose and cure this disease, which affects 1 in 8 women. It’s a passion project of theirs to enlist everyone else to help patients not just to survive, but to experience treatment in an environment of trust, and then to re-enter their lives and thrive again. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit carrie802897.substack.com

About

The Clearing is a project to capture my current process of sense making with others - a pod for my friends (except that was a mouthful). The intention is to focus strictly on topics that interest me and people I love listening to. Aiming to avoid pieties, performance, or excessive edification. Themes may emerge. Recording and sharing is an experiment, in the hope that something may resonate usefully with someone - if so, I’m curious to hear about it. carrie802897.substack.com

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