Hard Calls with Trisha Price

Pendo
  • 5.0 (7)
  • MANAGEMENT

Every product leader has to make them: the high-stakes decisions that define outcomes, shape careers, and don't come with easy answers. The Hard Calls podcast, hosted by Trisha Price, features candid conversations with product and tech leaders about the pivotal decisions that drive great products and the pressure that comes with it. From conflicting priorities and unclear success metrics to aligning teams and navigating executive expectations, you will hear compelling stories and best practices that drive business outcomes and help you make the Hard Calls. Real decisions. Real stakes. Real leadership. Presented by Pendo Learn more at pendo.io/ Follow Trisha Price on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/trisha-price-3063081/

  1. 4H AGO

    AI Won't Save Your Product; Your Taste and Judgment Will

    In this episode of Hard Calls, host Trisha Price and Dave Killeen, EMEA Field CPO at Pendo, explore how Dave’s curiosity about AI became an obsession and why every product leader needs to get hands-on with AI tools today. But here's the twist: Dave is adamant that AI isn't here to replace your taste or judgment; it's here to amplify it. Dave shares his personal experiences using AI and how it has changed the way he works and his thinking about product management. He says what he’s been able to build now is just “absolute bonkers.” Here's what you'll discover: Why product taste and judgment are things AI can't replace. Why getting laid off might be the best thing that happens to your product career. The uncomfortable truth about product metrics and business outcomes. How to use AI for discovery and experimentation at a completely different scale. Hear more from Dave by subscribing to his podcast, The Vibe PM, where he demos new AI tools and explores use cases for product leaders. Episode Chapters (00:00) Introduction: Dave's Journey to AI Obsession(02:34) The Hard Call: Choosing Obsession Over Comfort(06:22) Why Every PM Needs Hands-On AI Experience(08:00) Voice-to-Text and Claude Code: The Velocity Multipliers(12:15) The 88% Problem: Disconnecting Teams From Business Outcomes(14:15) KPI Driver Trees: The DNA of Business Logic(17:45) AI Red-Teaming Itself to Improve Output(20:45) Product Taste Can't Be Replaced: Only Amplified(23:00) Rapid Prototyping and Discovery at Scale(26:30) The Default Mode Network: Why Rest Drives Creativity(28:15) Career Advice: Lean Into Your Gut and Taste(30:45) Hard Calls on People: The Three Riffs at Product Board(31:45) Closing: The Whack-a-Mole Game of Product LeadershipThe Vibe PM podcast episodes mentioned on the show: Build a KPI Driver Tree app: https://youtu.be/6rHXVwk8VEE Build a Personal Knowledge Management system: https://youtu.be/WaqgSvL-V10 Love the episode?Be sure to follow or subscribe to the Hard Calls podcast and share it with anyone navigating product transformation or working to build better product sense. Every subscription helps more product management leaders find Hard Calls. Presented by Pendo. Discover more insights at https://www.pendo.ioConnect with Trisha Price on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/trisha-price-3063081/.Connect with Dave Killeen on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/davekilleen/

    33 min

  2. FEB 3

    How Data Leads to Personalization in a Digital Banking World

    In this episode of Hard Calls, CSI’s Senior Vice President of Product Management, Daniel Haisley, and host Trisha Price explore the hard calls that define product leadership, not just the ones on a product roadmap, but the ones about people. They then dig into how banks are deepening customer relationships through digital banking services. Here’s a hint: It has everything to do with data. Here's what you'll discover: The hardest call isn't about features - it's about people. When reviewing a team structure, one must decide who's ready for the next level and who deserves honesty about their next move. Daniel walks through how to make those decisions with both clarity and compassion, and why delivering hard news can be a gift. The evolution of community banking: From branches to digital. For decades, local banks differentiated themselves by the in-person relationships they had with customers. Then digital happened. Daniel reveals how to sustain customer loyalty by knowing customers as deeply online as a teller knew them in person. The data opportunity: Why banks are sitting on gold they can't use. Most banks sit on goldmines of customer insights - transaction history, spending patterns, life events - but they encounter issues that prevent them from acting on those insights. Daniel shares the issues he sees most often, and more importantly, how to break through each one. The experimentation barrier: Why banks still fear testing. With technology and AI, teams can build and iterate on new ideas in minutes, not days, yet many banks still hesitate to test new ideas. Daniel exposes the perfectionism mindset that kills experimentation and shows how to shift from "get it right" to "get it learning" - even in risk-averse industries.Giving tools to banks: Differentiation without complexity. Community and regional banks can't hire massive data science teams or compete on R&D budgets. But they can compete on personalization if you give them the right tools. Daniel reveals the product strategy that lets traditional institutions differentiate and actually serve their customers better in a digital-first world. Episode Chapters (00:00) Introduction: From SaaS Builder to CSI Leadership(03:36) The Hard Call: Making People Decisions in Acquisition(06:11) When High Performance Becomes a Problem(07:34) Why Honest Feedback Can Be the Best Gift(09:05) The Evolution of Community Banking: From Branches to Digital(10:48) What Gets Lost When Banking Goes Digital(12:31) Data as the New Relationship Currency(14:02) The Five Whys: Getting to Root Problems(15:20) Customer Research That Actually Informs Strategy(16:32) The Data Opportunity: Why Banks Are Sitting on Gold They Can't Use(19:07) The Maturity Gap: Financial Institutions Aren't Ready(20:42) The Ownership Problem: When Everyone Has a Veto(22:41) Finding Best Practices Across the Institution(23:29) The Experimentation Barrier: Why Banks Still Fear Testing(24:34) How Technology Made Iteration Accessible(25:33) Beyond Vanity Metrics: Measuring Real Outcomes(27:29) Personalization Isn't About Messages—It's About Outcomes(28:01) Why One-Size-Fits-All Doesn't Work Anymore(29:36) Giving Tools to Community Banks: Differentiation Without Complexity(31:13) The Partnership That Changes EverythingLove the episode?Follow us and share it with a teammate navigating transformation or trying to build better product instincts. Every subscription helps more product leaders find Hard Calls. Presented by Pendo. Discover more insights at Pendo.io or connect with Trisha Price on LinkedIn.

    32 min

  3. JAN 20

    How a Luxury Resort Group Adopted Product Thinking To Transform Guest Experiences

    "Technology doesn't replace service; it helps it scale." - Anuar Chapur Most product leaders build software. Anuar Chapur, Chief Product and Technology Officer at The Palace Company, builds memorable experiences for guests staying at his family’s luxury resorts across Mexico, the Caribbean, Italy, and the Maldives. In this episode of Hard Calls, hosted by Trisha Price, Anuar shares how he applies product thinking to in-person guest experiences. Anuar’s thinking goes beyond software. He and his team use AI and data to scale human connections at each resort, which Anuar calls "coloring moments" that guests remember long after checkout. Here's what you'll discover: The hard call: Transforming a family’s 40-year legacy. Anuar shares the difficult decision to transform the family business into a product-led organization to deliver the best guest experiences, knowing there was no Plan B for him. How product thinking led to scalable human connections. At The Palace Company, product management isn't just about digital experiences—it's about orchestrating exceptional in-person experiences and service. Anuar explains how technology can amplify what makes hospitality magical, rather than automate the magic away. Exceptional service sits at the intersection of data, taste, and product sense. Anuar set out to change the way the company handled feedback and introduced a decision process based on data, not gut reactions. He also reveals how he adapted the concept of "unreasonable hospitality" to empower his team to use AI and data to proactively create moments of delight for guests at scale. Rebuilding the leadership team’s mindset for transformation. Whether you inherit a team or build one from scratch, you need people who are eager to make an impact and create something exceptional. Anuar shares why he rebuilt his leadership team with the right skillsets, product thinking, and obsession over the customer. Episode Chapters (00:00) Introduction: Product Leadership Beyond Software(06:35) The Hard Call: Transforming Your Family's 40-Year Legacy(11:47) What Product Management Looks Like in Luxury Hospitality(16:30) Using AI to Scale Human Connections, Not Replace It(21:00) Building Healthy Conflict in a Conflict-Avoidant Culture(24:27) Creating "Coloring Moments" That Guests Remember(27:00) How Digital Products Create In-person Experiences(31:30) Rebuilding the Leadership Team for Transformation(36:00) Closing: When Your User Interface Is a Human BeingLove the episode?Give us a like, drop us a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, and share it with a teammate navigating transformation or trying to build better product instincts. Let’s help more product leaders find Hard Calls. Presented by Pendo. Discover more insights at pendo.io or connect with Trisha Price on LinkedIn.

    37 min

  4. JAN 6

    The Three Types of Hard Calls Every Product Leader Faces

    It's the first week of a new year. You're looking at your roadmap, your team, your strategy - and you're realizing something: You need to make some hard decisions. The thing is, the hardest calls aren’t deciding what features to build. Rather, it's likely determining who on the team comes with you on the journey. Or deciding which products to sunset, even if they're generating revenue. Or it's making the choice to bet everything on a new direction. In this special compilation episode of Hard Calls, host Trisha Price brings together the three types of hard calls shared by her guests, featuring Jodi McDermott, Jessica Soroky, Pierre Naudé, Peter Bailey, Naomi Larivière, Noa Ginsberg, Mark Mitchell, Ben Currin, Todd Olson, Gabrielle Bufrem, and Marty Cagan. This isn't a highlight reel. This is a breakdown of the three types of decisions that define product leadership: the People Calls, the Stop Calls, and the Go Calls. Here are the three types of hard calls you’ll hear about in this episode: The People Calls that define your culture. The Stop Calls that protect trust and enterprise value.The Go Calls that reshape the company and customer adoption.Episode Chapters (00:23) Introduction: The Three Types of Hard Calls(01:51) Part 1: The People Calls(02:20) Jodi McDermott: The High Performer Who Undermines Culture(03:00) Jessica Soroky: When a Good Person Isn't the Right Fit(04:30) Pierre Naudé: Scaling Beyond Your Founding Team(05:58) Part 2: The Stop Calls(06:38) Peter Bailey: Pausing a Federal Reserve Launch at JPMorgan(09:20) Naomi Larivière: When Innovation Collides with Trust at ADP(11:35) Jodi McDermott: Sunsetting a Product Built for One Customer(14:38) Mark Mitchell: Walking Away from a Large Prospect(17:09) Ad Break: Pandemonium 2026 Festival(18:04) Part 3: The Go Calls(18:16) Noa Ginsberg: Trust Your Gut But Verify with Data(19:22) Ben Currin: Pivoting Vantaca's Entire Strategy to AI(20:32) Todd Olson: Building Without Budget or Permission at Rally(22:51) Gabrielle Bufrem: Betting on Herself as a Coach(25:13) Marty Cagan: The eBay Lesson on Product Adoption(27:43) Closing: Making the Call with the Right DataWhether you're navigating AI transformation, restructuring your team for the next stage of growth, or deciding what to say no to this year, this episode gives you the confidence to make the hard calls that matter. Love the episode? Drop us a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review and share it with a teammate navigating transformation or trying to build better product instincts. Every subscription helps more product leaders find Hard Calls. Presented by Pendo. Discover more insights at pendo.io or connect with Trisha Price on LinkedIn.

    29 min

  5. 12/16/2025

    AI Strategy Not Required and More Truths About Transformation

    "And I tell all my clients, you all are in transformation. If you are not transforming, you are dying." Gabrielle BufremIn this episode of Hard Calls, Gabrielle Bufrem and host Trisha Price explore what transformation truly means, why trust is the currency that unlocks everything else, and how focus, fewer products, and AI work together to build products customers will love. Gabi didn't set out to become a product leadership coach. After building products across nine industries and three continents, she realized her real passion was helping leaders to make the shift from feature factories to outcome-driven products. But here's what makes her approach different: she knows transformation isn't a project you complete. It's the permanent momentum of building products that matter to your customers. Here's what you'll discover: Why every company is in constant transformation. Gabi reframes transformation as permanent evolution, not a one-time initiative. How to earn trust when you're starting from a deficit. Product teams often inherit "trust debt" from past failures. Gabi shares her framework on how to deliver business outcomes that the organization actually cares about, even if they don't yet understand product speak. The difference between empowered teams and abandoned teams. Gabi reveals why truly empowered teams need more coaching, not less, and what that coaching actually looks like. Why you don’t need an AI strategy. Gabi challenges the hype and breaks down when AI works as a solution lever versus when it's just noise masking a lack of strategy. The energy audit that changes everything. Gabi's energy list exercise surfaces where people waste time on work that doesn't move the needle, and often doesn't need to be done by them at all. Episode Chapters (01:28) Introduction and Gabi's Path to Product Leadership(02:52) The Unconventional Journey from Google Intern to Coach(07:35) The Hard Call of Leaving Product to Become a Coach(11:32) How to Know If a Company Is Ready for Transformation(15:33) The Uncomfortable Truths Leaders Must Confront(17:15) Starting with All-Star Teams and Building from Success(21:22) The Trust Problem: Earning Credibility from Deficit(23:06) Why Empowered Teams Need More Coaching, Not Less(27:06) AI as a Lever, Not a Strategy(32:21) How AI Is Accelerating Discovery and Prototyping(34:09) Why Engineers Are More Valuable Than Ever(36:14) The Energy Audit: What Brings You Joy vs. What Drains You(38:58) The Calendar Test: Do You Really Need to Be There(42:35) Making the Hard Call: Choosing What to Focus OnLove the episode?Drop us a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review and share it with a teammate navigating transformation or trying to build better product instincts. Every subscription helps more product leaders find Hard Calls. Presented by Pendo. Discover more insights at pendo.io or connect with Trisha Price on LinkedIn.

    46 min

  6. 12/02/2025

    How Trust and Data-Driven Decisions Create Client Value at ADP

    "In AI, speed matters—but trust compounds." Naomi Lariviere, Chief Product Owner and VP of Product Management at ADP, leads product strategy for a company that processes payroll for millions of people. When even the smallest error can mean someone doesn't get paid on time, there's no room for "move fast and break things." In this episode of Hard Calls, Naomi and host Trisha Price dig into the decision that defined ADP's AI strategy: choosing to slow down full automation on ADP Assist to protect client confidence. It's a masterclass in what responsible innovation actually looks like when the stakes are real. "We could have shipped faster. But in payroll, trust isn't something you rebuild easily." - Naomi Lariviere Here's what you'll discover: Why ADP paused automation to preserve accuracy. Naomi walks through the hard call to prioritize explainability and reliability over speed-to-market. In high-stakes environments like payroll, trust compounds—and so does the cost of getting it wrong. The 3-question rubric to prioritize what to ship. Naomi shares the simple framework her team uses to evaluate every feature: Does it solve a real problem? Can we explain how it works? Does it protect user trust? How to embed ethics from day one. ADP doesn't treat privacy, compliance, and bias as checkboxes at the end. Naomi reveals how "shift-left ethics" means involving legal and privacy teams at the earliest stages of product development. Why diverse teams build safer AI. Homogeneous teams miss blind spots. Naomi explains how diversity across backgrounds, perspectives, and experiences leads to more resilient products—especially in regulated industries. Building psychological safety in high-pressure environments. Innovation requires teams that feel safe to challenge assumptions, raise concerns, and kill their darlings. Naomi shares how she creates that culture while still delivering outcomes. Whether you're building AI in a regulated industry, leading teams through complex trade-offs, or trying to balance innovation with responsibility, this episode shows you how to make the hard calls that protect what matters most. Episode Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Naomi’s Path to Product Leadership 04:32 The Hard Call: Trust Before Speed in AI 07:16 Balancing Innovation and Reliability 09:41 A Simple Product Rubric for What to Ship 11:51 Killing Your Darlings with Outcome-Based OKRs 15:15 Shift-Left Ethics: Privacy and Compliance from Day One 20:10 The Payroll Anomalies Breakthrough 28:02 Upskilling Teams for AI Innovation 36:51 Building Psychological Safety 38:54 Why Diverse Teams Ship Better, Safer AI 42:27 Closing TakeawaysLove the episode?Drop us a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review and share it with a teammate exploring AI in regulated industries. Every subscription helps more product leaders find Hard Calls. Presented by Pendo. Discover more insights at pendo.io or connect with Trisha Price on LinkedIn.

    43 min

  7. 11/18/2025

    Do You Need a PM Center of Excellence? The Answer is Yes.

    Noa Ginsberg, SVP, Product Management Excellence at FactSet, faced a challenge that would make most product leaders nervous: transform how a 40-year-old financial data company builds products. Not a single team or feature, but the entire product organization. In this episode of Hard Calls, Noa and host Trisha Price dig into what it truly takes to introduce modern product thinking to build a Product Management Center of Excellence. They discuss the best practices for rolling out new tooling and analytics-driven processes across thousands of employees without losing touch with the customer and what made FactSet successful in the first place. "If we hadn’t positioned for product excellence, we wouldn’t be ready for the AI wave.” - Noa Ginsberg Here's what you'll discover: How to build a Product Center of Excellence that scales. Noa breaks down the framework she used to reduce duplication, create clarity, and align product teams around shared outcomes—without adding bureaucracy. Why gut instinct still matters in a data-driven world. Experience teaches you to recognize patterns faster than dashboards can. Noa explains how to trust your intuition while building the discipline to validate it with data. The metrics that actually drive outcomes. Noa describes that aligning product metrics to business outcomes is not as easy as it sounds. Using the FACT Model, Noa shares how her team moved beyond vanity metrics to metrics that connect product decisions to business results. How AI is changing the product development lifecycle. From ideation to prototyping, AI is compressing timelines and allowing anyone to bring an idea to life. Noa reveals where her team is seeing the biggest impact and where human judgment still wins. Episode Chapters (00:00) Introduction and Noa Ginsberg's Role at FactSet(03:00) The Hard Call of Transforming a 40-Year-Old Company(06:39) Gut Feel as Data: Trust Your Instinct But Verify(12:07) When to Build a Product Center of Excellence(16:34) Stakeholders, Supportability, and Voice of Customer(20:57) How to Get Started Building Your Own COE(25:07) Aligning Product Metrics to Business Outcomes(29:00) Keeping Teams Customer-Connected in the Messy Middle(32:09) How AI and Agents Are Accelerating Product Development(39:13) Closing Thoughts on Decision-Making and Product ExcellenceLove the episode?Drop us a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review and share it with a teammate navigating their own hard call. Every subscription helps more product leaders find Hard Calls. Presented by Pendo. Explore more insights at pendo.io or connect with Trisha Price on LinkedIn.

    43 min

  8. 11/04/2025

    The Mindset You Need to Lead Through AI Disruption

    What’s it really like to make a hard call inside a global bank? Peter Bailey, Product Director at J.P. Morgan Payments, joins Trisha to unpack the decision that nearly “got me fired” - calling off a launch when the data vendor wasn’t the right fit, but then won the trust of his peers and leaders by making the right call. In this episode of Hard Calls, he and host Trisha Price reconnect as past colleagues and dive into the benefits of focusing on the developer experience. Peter explains why building for developers at J.P. Morgan is as strategic as building for customers. And speaking of customers, the two talk about the knowledge they’ve gained when they bring customers along with “near-vana,” (listen to the episode to learn more). They also discuss the mindset needed to lead through today’s disruptions from AI and blockchain, all the while maintaining data security and compliance. Episode Chapters (00:00) Introduction and hard calls in global banking(01:50) The “almost got me fired” decision to either launch or hold the line(08:15) Services to Product: Lessons from Primatics(16:30) Owner mindset inside a global bank(21:30) Navigating AI disruption with curiosity(27:15) Customer and developer feedback loops(28:00) “Near-vana” - Advisory panels, betas, shared accountability(35:10) When Peter flips the script and interviews Trisha(39:00) Closing ReflectionsLove the episode?Drop us a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, and share this episode with a teammate navigating their own leap to leadership. Every download and subscription helps more product leaders find the show! Presented by Pendo. Dive deeper at pendo.io or connect with Trisha Price on LinkedIn

    42 min
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About

Every product leader has to make them: the high-stakes decisions that define outcomes, shape careers, and don't come with easy answers. The Hard Calls podcast, hosted by Trisha Price, features candid conversations with product and tech leaders about the pivotal decisions that drive great products and the pressure that comes with it. From conflicting priorities and unclear success metrics to aligning teams and navigating executive expectations, you will hear compelling stories and best practices that drive business outcomes and help you make the Hard Calls. Real decisions. Real stakes. Real leadership. Presented by Pendo Learn more at pendo.io/ Follow Trisha Price on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/trisha-price-3063081/

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