Puppies, Pandemics, and Public Health

Dr. Johnny Lieberman
  • 5.0 (11)
  • Self-Improvement
  • Updated Bimonthly

Welcome to Puppies, Pandemics, and Public Health—a podcast for smart, curious listeners who are tired of being misled by clickbait headlines and not always sure which headlines to believe. Hosted by Dr. Johnny Lieberman—internist, infectious diseases physician, accidental dog dad, and now with an Animal Law Degree - this show pulls back the curtain on the interconnected and opaque systems that shape our food, medicine, environment, and public health. From factory farms to pharmaceutical labs, from the dog in your home to the label on your lunch meat—what’s marketed as “healthy” or “humane” is often anything but. Each episode investigates the real stories behind the headlines: the science, the policy, the ethics, and the consequences. Dr. Lieberman brings a sharp, witty, no-fluff perspective—armed with over 20 years of medical experience and a deep drive to uncover truth. Through solo episodes, expert interviews, and roundtable discussions, you’ll learn how to navigate misinformation, advocate for better systems, and make decisions that align with your values. If you’ve ever wondered what’s really in your food, how pandemics emerge, or whether you’re accidentally supporting abusive industries—this is the podcast for you.

  1. 4d ago

    Animal Welfare: Why Protecting Animals Means Protecting Ourselves | S1 Ep30

    EPISODE SUMMARY Fur farms still exist, and most people have no idea. Lesley Fox, Executive Director of The Fur-Bearers, explains why these facilities are a public health risk, an environmental hazard, and a drain on taxpayer dollars. If this industry didn't already exist, no one would argue for starting it now. IN THIS EPISODE - The origins of fur farming in 1800s Canada and how it spread globally as a get-rich-quick scheme - How fur farms resemble actory farms and puppy mills in their confinement practices and negative externalities - Why COVID brought new attention to fur farming's public health risks - How taxpayer funding turns a "private" industry into a public concern - Why NOW is the best time to take action to end mink farming - Multiple entry points for advocates: animal welfare, environment, public health, workers' rights, or government accountability KEY TAKEAWAYS 1. Fur farms are factory farms for fashion, cramming wild animals into small cages to produce a non-essential product. 2. When an industry receives public funding and creates public health risks, it stops being a private business matter. 3. The fur farming industry is weaker now than at any point in history, making this a winnable fight for advocates. 4. Tradition is not a justification for continuing harmful practices when new information shows the damage being done. 5. You don't have to care about animal welfare to oppose fur farming. Pick your issue: environment, workers, taxes, or disease. KEYWORDS Lesley Fox, The Fur-Bearers, fur farming, mink farms, animal welfare, public health, zoonotic disease, factory farming, wildlife protection, Canada, COVID, taxpayer funding, fashion fur trade, animal advocacy, environmental impact

    Animal Welfare: Why Protecting Animals Means Protecting Ourselves | S1 Ep30

  2. Sep 16

    Dogs in Labs: A Former Researcher on Why She Changed Sides | Ep. 29

    EPISODE SUMMARY Dogs are still being used in medical research, and the science behind it is weaker than most people realize. Daria Bednarczyk, a former lab worker turned animal law advocate, joins Dr. Lieberman to unpack the outdated regulations, the ethical blind spots, and why better alternatives already exist but aren't being used. IN THIS EPISODE - Why dogs are still used in research despite being seen as pets by most people - The emotional burnout researchers experience when working with lab animals - How World War II era FDA regulations still dictate what counts as "gold standard" testing - New Approach Methodologies (NAMs) and why they're not being adopted faster - The low translatability rate of animal testing to human outcomes - Daria's personal journey from lab researcher to animal law advocate - Why the system pays scientists to keep using animal models - The disconnect between loving your pet at home and experimenting on animals at work KEY TAKEAWAYS 1. Animal testing remains the default not because it works best, but because laws and regulations haven't caught up to current science, and researchers are still paid to perform experiments on animals. 2. New technologies can produce more human-relevant data than animal models, but adoption is blocked by outdated approval processes and a system set on maintaining the status quo. 3. Challenging long-held beliefs, especially ones tied to your identity or career, is uncomfortable but necessary for real change. 4. The conversation to move beyond animal research needs scientists, lawyers, animal advocates and the public at the same table. KEYWORDS Daria Bednarczyk, dogs in research, animal testing, lab animals, New Approach Methodologies, NAMs, FDA regulations, animal law, research ethics, translatability, animal advocacy, emotional burnout, alternatives to animal testing, public health

    Dogs in Labs: A Former Researcher on Why She Changed Sides | Ep. 29

  3. Sep 9

    Inside Animal Research Labs: Where Dogs Live and Die for Bad Science | Ep. 28

    EPISODE SUMMARY Forty thousand dogs are used in research labs across the United States every year, and most people have no idea. Journalist Melanie Kaplan adopted a beagle named Hammy who spent nearly four years in a laboratory, and that relationship sent her on a five-year investigation into the hidden world of animal research. What she found challenges how we think about science, suffering, and the pets we love. IN THIS EPISODE - How Melanie adopted Hammy, a beagle with a tattoo in his ear and nearly four years of lab life behind him - The dramatic drop from 500,000 dogs used annually in the 1960s to 40,000 today, and what that shift means - Why mice and rats are excluded from Animal Welfare Act protections, leaving their numbers unknown but estimated at over 100 million - The story of Marjorie, the dog credited with helping discover insulin, and the hundreds of unnamed dogs who died in the same experiments - What daily life looks like for a dog in a research facility: confinement, no choices, no autonomy - Why most lab animals are killed at the end of studies and how few make it to adoption - The challenge of measuring whether animal research is actually worth the harm it causes - How consumers, voters, and patients can make more informed decisions once they know the facts KEY TAKEAWAYS 1. Most people assume dog experimentation ended decades ago. It did not. 2. The animals covered by federal welfare laws represent a tiny fraction of those actually used in research. 3. Measuring the benefit of animal research is nearly impossible because discoveries unfold over years or decades with no clear line from one animal to one outcome. 4. Simply knowing a single fact or meeting one former lab dog can change how someone votes, shops, or advocates. 5. The dogs who survive and get adopted are the rare exceptions, not the rule. KEYWORDS Melanie Kaplan, Lab Dog, beagle research, animal testing, laboratory animals, Animal Welfare Act, dog experimentation, Hammy, animal research ethics, insulin discovery, lab animal adoption, science journalism, animal welfare, research dogs, public health

    Inside Animal Research Labs: Where Dogs Live and Die for Bad Science | Ep. 28

  4. Sep 2

    Purpose Bred: The Dog Breeding Industry You've Never Heard Of | Ep. 27

    EPISODE SUMMARY Thousands of dogs are bred each year in facilities designed to supply laboratories with test subjects. Most people have no idea this mutibillion dollar industry exists. Animal advocates Ella Magers and Gretchen Primack are calling on ordinary people to join them to help end the purpose bred dog breeding industry. IN THIS EPISODE - The story of Jane, a beagle rescued from Ridglan Farms after spending her first 18 months in a wire cage - How purpose-bred dog facilities operate - Learn how animal testing fails over 90% of the time, yet the industry still receives billions in federal funding - The March to Abolish Animal Testing: a 15-day, 207-mile walk from Albany to Marshall Bioresources in September 2026 - What the march organizers are demanding from lawmakers and research institutions - How two people with no event planning experience launched a national campaign - Why taking action is the antidote to despair when facing massive systemic problems KEY TAKEAWAYS 1. Over 90% of drugs that pass animal testing fail in human trials, yet the practice continues to receive billions in government funding. 3. The Ridglan Farms open rescue helped draw attention to the secretive industry of purpose bred dog breeding. 4. You don't need to be a professional organizer to make change. KEYWORDS Ella Magers, Gretchen Primack, animal testing, beagle rescue, dog experimentation, March to Abolish Animal Testing, Marshall Bioresources, Ridgeland Farms, purpose-bred dogs, animal advocacy, lab animal welfare, research alternatives, Jane the beagle, animal rights, federal research funding

    Purpose Bred: The Dog Breeding Industry You've Never Heard Of | Ep. 27

  5. Aug 19

    Where Do Pet Store Puppies Really Come From? | Ep. 26

    EPISODE SUMMARY Every puppy sold in a pet store or online has parents living in misery somewhere you'll never see. Lori Greenstone spent 15 years fighting to shut down the pipeline between puppy mills and pet stores in Colorado, and she finally won. This is the story of what puppy mills actually look like, why the industry stays hidden, and how a state-level law can save thousands of dogs from lives of suffering. IN THIS EPISODE - What a puppy mill actually is: factory farms for dogs with no vet care, no socialization, and no escape - The hidden lives of breeding dogs who never touch grass, never see a toy, and are discarded when they can no longer produce - How puppy mills connect directly to pet stores and online puppy sales - Lori's path from "What's a puppy mill?" to leading a 15-year legislative campaign - The federal Pups Bill and why state-level action became the real strategy - Colorado's new law banning pet stores from selling puppy mill dogs and kittens - Mill dog rescues and what recovery looks like for dogs who've never known kindness KEY TAKEAWAYS 1. When you buy a puppy from a pet store or online, you are funding the suffering of the breeding dogs who live and die in puppy mills. 2. Puppy mills operate in the shadows on purpose, keeping consumers unaware of conditions that would horrify them. 3. Dogs rescued from mills often take years to recover, and some never learn to trust humans or understand basic comforts like grass or blankets. 4. State-level legislation can succeed where federal bills stall, and Colorado just proved it. 5. You can still find the puppy you want without supporting this industry. KEYWORDS Lori Greenstone, Colorado Voters for Animals, puppy mills, pet store puppies, animal welfare legislation, breeding dogs, mill dog rescue, Pups Bill, humane pet adoption, Colorado animal laws, commercial dog breeding, puppy mill reform, National Mill Dog Rescue

    Where Do Pet Store Puppies Really Come From? | Ep. 26

  6. Aug 5

    From Animal Researcher to Animal Advocate: One Scientist's Journey | Ep. 25

    EPISODE SUMMARY A biomedical scientist who spent 14 years experimenting on animals now runs Canada's first centre dedicated to replacing them. Dr. Charu Chandrasekera explains why the animal research you assume is necessary may not be, and what that means for the drugs you take. IN THIS EPISODE - How heart failure is artificially induced in dogs and rats through surgery, pacemakers, and arterial restriction - The four primary methods used to create disease in lab animals: surgical removal, chemical destruction, genetic modification, and dietary manipulation - Why results from animal models often fail to translate to human treatments - Dr. Chandrasekera's personal shift from cardiovascular animal researcher to advocate for human-based methods - The difference between basic biomedical research and safety testing in animal use - How the culture of science pressures researchers to validate human data using animal models - What it means that animal experiments taught us the limits of animal experiments KEY TAKEAWAYS 1. Every animal experiment labeled "necessary" by ethics boards and peer reviewers is not automatically necessary. The approval process does not guarantee scientific value. 2. Animal models of disease are artificially induced, which means researchers are studying a manufactured condition, not the same disease process that develops naturally in humans. 3. The technologies available in 2025 are not the technologies of 1921. The argument that we needed animals to discover insulin does not mean we need them now. 4. Acknowledging the historical contributions of animal research and acknowledging its colossal limitations are not contradictory positions. 5. The scientific culture itself, not just individual researchers, drives continued animal use through funding structures, validation requirements, and training norms. KEYWORDS Dr. Charu Chandrasekera, animal testing, animal research alternatives, Canadian Centre for Alternatives to Animal Methods, heart failure research, drug development, translational research, biomedical ethics, lab animals, human-based methods, cardiovascular research, scientific culture, research regulation

    From Animal Researcher to Animal Advocate: One Scientist's Journey | Ep. 25

  7. Jul 22

    Good Intentions, Permanent Harm. Rethinking How We Care for Pets | Ep24

    EPISODE SUMMARY Most people who bring pets into their homes consider them family. But some of the choices we make, from where we get our animals to procedures we assume are harmless, cause real suffering. Megan Senatori breaks down what cat declawing actually does to cats, why pet stores are a problem, and how the law is starting to catch up with what the science already knows. IN THIS EPISODE - What cat declawing really involves and why it's not like trimming nails - Long-term consequences of declawing, including chronic pain, biting, and litter box avoidance - How declawing can lead to pet surrenders and shelter overcrowding - The eight states that have banned cosmetic declawing - Why landlords requiring declawing is a policy problem, and Delaware's response - The hidden cost of buying pets from pet stores and supporting puppy mills - How well-meaning people cause harm through lack of information - The role of veterinarians in perpetuating or preventing these procedures KEY TAKEAWAYS 1. Cat declawing is amputation at the first knuckle, not a nail trim, and it causes lifelong pain and behavioral problems. 2. Where you get your pet matters. Buying from pet stores often supports puppy and kitten mills. 3. Laws banning harmful cosmetic procedures are growing, with eight states now prohibiting non-therapeutic declawing. 4. Landlord policies requiring declawing push pet owners into harming their animals, and only one state has addressed this. 5. Loving your pet like family means making informed choices, even when vets or landlords suggest otherwise. KEYWORDS Megan Senatori, cat declawing, animal law, Lewis & Clark Law School, companion animal welfare, puppy mills, pet store regulations, veterinary ethics, animal protection, tail docking, ear cropping, shelter surrenders, pet ownership, animal cruelty laws, Center for Animal Law Studies

    Good Intentions, Permanent Harm. Rethinking How We Care for Pets | Ep24

  8. Jul 8

    Animal Testing: The Science Has Changed. Has the Public? | Ep23

    EPISODE SUMMARY For 40 years, governments have quietly acknowledged that animal testing often fails to predict what medicines will do to humans. So why does the public still believe it's the gold standard? Jeffrey Brown, an epidemiologist who advises on animal-free testing methods, explains why the science has moved on, even if the narrative hasn't. IN THIS EPISODE - Why animal testing results often don't translate to human safety outcomes - The 1986 European Union directive that called for moving away from animal methods - How basic cell and molecular biology research differs from regulatory safety testing - The latest EU data showing animal use in research is declining - What the FDA and other regulatory agencies actually need from safety testing - How to evaluate conflicting messages from research institutions and advocacy groups - The gap between public perception of animal testing and what scientists know KEY TAKEAWAYS 1. Animal testing is not the reliable safety check most people assume it is, and scientists who work in regulatory affairs know this. 2. The European Union has tracked animal use in research for decades, and the numbers keep dropping as better methods take hold. 3. Moving away from animal testing is not just an ethical position. It is a scientific one, backed by 40 years of regulatory policy. 4. When governments and drug approval agencies push for non-animal methods, they are trying to get more accurate data, not less. 5. You do not have to be an expert to ask better questions about where safety data comes from. KEYWORDS Jeffrey Brown, animal testing, non-animal methods, FDA, drug safety, epidemiology, cell biology, medical device testing, European Union animal research policy, regulatory science, public health, animal-free research, toxicity testing, Science Consortium

    Animal Testing: The Science Has Changed. Has the Public? | Ep23
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5
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About

Welcome to Puppies, Pandemics, and Public Health—a podcast for smart, curious listeners who are tired of being misled by clickbait headlines and not always sure which headlines to believe. Hosted by Dr. Johnny Lieberman—internist, infectious diseases physician, accidental dog dad, and now with an Animal Law Degree - this show pulls back the curtain on the interconnected and opaque systems that shape our food, medicine, environment, and public health. From factory farms to pharmaceutical labs, from the dog in your home to the label on your lunch meat—what’s marketed as “healthy” or “humane” is often anything but. Each episode investigates the real stories behind the headlines: the science, the policy, the ethics, and the consequences. Dr. Lieberman brings a sharp, witty, no-fluff perspective—armed with over 20 years of medical experience and a deep drive to uncover truth. Through solo episodes, expert interviews, and roundtable discussions, you’ll learn how to navigate misinformation, advocate for better systems, and make decisions that align with your values. If you’ve ever wondered what’s really in your food, how pandemics emerge, or whether you’re accidentally supporting abusive industries—this is the podcast for you.

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