The Intangible Brand

TOKY & Cline
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Welcome to The Intangible Brand, where we explore the connection between employee experience and client experience, and the hidden forces that make brands stick. Each episode offers practical insights and inspiration for building a brand people are proud to work for — and eager to work with. The Intangible Brand is brought to you by Cline and TOKY. Say hello@theintangiblebrand.com

  1. JAN 7

    Ep 15 - Slaying Engagement Zombies | Will Percy

    Watch this episode on YouTube In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl talk with Dr. Will Percy, Executive Vice President at TeamOptix and author of Slaying Zombies: Reimagining Workplace Engagement, about why so many engagement efforts feel busy but ineffective. Will introduces the idea of “engagement zombies” the outdated beliefs, metrics, and programs that continue to walk around organizations long after they have stopped helping anyone. We explore why happiness and engagement are not the same thing, how toxicity often hides inside “high-performing” cultures, and why leadership behavior, not perks or surveys, ultimately shapes the employee experience. The conversation digs into how chaos, unclear expectations, and tolerance of the wrong behaviors quietly drain teams, especially in creative and professional service environments. Will also shares how data can be used as a coaching tool rather than a weapon, and what collective leadership actually looks like when it is done well. This episode is a practical look at how leaders can move beyond surface-level engagement efforts and create environments where people can do their best work without burning out or checking out. We cover: Why happiness is not the same as engagementWhat workplace toxicity looks like beyond extreme examplesHow chaos and lack of clarity become cultural toxinsWhy promotions and tolerance reveal true leadership valuesUsing data to support growth instead of surveillanceWhat collective leadership looks like in practiceResources mentioned: The Chimp Paradox by Steve PetersZombie Economics: The Dead Ideas Still Walk Among Us by John QuigginSlaying Zombies: Reimagining Workplace EngagementConnect With Us Follow the Hosts: Jerry Gennaria & Carl Winstead Learn More about TOKY & Cline Get In Touch: hello@theintangiblebrand.com

    1h 1m

  2. 12/17/2025

    Ep 14 - Perspective Over Demographics | Susan Baier

    Watch this episode on YouTube In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl sit down with Susan Baier, founder of Audience Audit, to explore how professional service firms can build stronger brands by understanding what their audiences actually believe, not just who they are on paper. Susan explains why demographics and generic personas often fall short, and how attitudinal research helps firms sharpen their point of view, create more relevant thought leadership, and earn trust over time. We talk about what clients really expect from expertise-led brands, how original research becomes a long-term differentiator, and where AI supports marketing teams versus where it risks flattening credibility. We cover: • Why perspective matters more than demographics • What attitudinal segmentation reveals that personas miss • How custom research creates defensible differentiation • What clients actually want from thought leadership • The role of trust, substance, and experience in brand building • Where AI helps and where it can quietly erode credibility Recommended resource: • Exceptional Experiences podcast by Neen James Connect With Us Follow the Hosts: Jerry Gennaria & Carl Winstead Learn More about TOKY & Cline Get In Touch: hello@theintangiblebrand.com

    56 min

  3. 12/10/2025

    Ep 13 - Designing Service Brands Where Everyone Wins | Tate Fisher

    Watch this episode on YouTube In this episode, we talk with Tate Fisher about what it really takes to design service experiences that serve customers, support employees, and work for the business. Tate draws on years of work with multi location and franchise brands to explain why service is always co created and why balance across those three stakeholders matters more than any single tactic. The conversation hits on how to build predictable systems without stripping out humanity, what frontline teams actually need in order to create meaningful moments, and why real behavior should shape both spaces and processes. Tate also shares what he’s learned from navigating franchisor–franchisee dynamics and the north star that helps both sides stay aligned. What We Cover: The customer–employee–owner frameworkHow co creation shows up inside physical service environmentsDesigning systems that free people to deliver better experiencesLessons from telecom, franchise networks, and student housingWhere alignment breaks down in multi site brands and how to fix itResources Mentioned: The Founders podcastLearn More Tate Fisher and Katalyst Group Connect With Us Follow the Hosts: Jerry Gennaria & Carl Winstead Learn More about TOKY & Cline Get In Touch: hello@theintangiblebrand.com

    1h 5m

  4. 11/26/2025

    Ep 12 - Becoming “Brand On” | Brandon Coleman Jr

    Watch this episode on YouTube In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl talk with Brandon Coleman Jr., a brand strategist, speaker, and author who has spent five decades helping organizations understand what brand really is and how culture shapes it. Brandon shares the stories and lessons that shaped his philosophy, from early mentors who challenged him to define value, to the rebrand of his own family firm, to his favorite example of culture-powered consistency at Buc-ee’s. His message is simple but hard-hitting: brands are built by people, trained through culture, and proven through experience. In this Episode • What “Brand On” means and why few organizations achieve it  • How culture, training, and consistency shape real brand experience  • Brandon’s early lessons in sales, confidence, and telling the truth  • The rebrand of his family firm and what it taught him about identity  • Why Buc-ee’s is a masterclass in operational culture  • How employees become brand evangelists  • Why big companies struggle with culture and where it breaks down Guest Brandon Coleman Jr. is a brand strategist, speaker, and author who has led thousands of brand alignment engagements across industries for more than 50 years. Known for his storytelling and straight talk, he teaches leaders how to build cultures that deliver on the brand every day. Resources • The Paradox of Success Connect With Us Follow the Hosts: Jerry Gennaria & Carl Winstead Learn More about TOKY & Cline Get In Touch: hello@theintangiblebrand.com

    1h 6m

  5. 11/12/2025

    Ep 11 - Making Brand and Growth Inseparable | Shayne De La Force

    Watch this episode on YouTube In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and guest host Alec Gleason talk with Shayne De La Force, a marketing strategist and author of Strategic Entanglement, a book that borrows principles from quantum physics to rethink how brand and growth operate together. Shayne shares how global brands can close the gap between marketing and delivery, the cultural insights that inform his work, and why marketers must think like connectors — aligning teams, operations, and leadership around one shared promise. In this Episode What “strategic entanglement” means — and why brand and growth are inseparable (00:05:20)The CMO as connector: integrating marketing into business strategy (00:10:45)Why understanding culture is essential to effective storytelling (00:18:00)Turning employees into brand evangelists and advocates (00:29:20)Marketing as a P&L generator, not a cost center (00:37:15)How global experience shapes local impact (00:44:10)Guest Shayne De La Force is a global marketing and brand leader known for applying systems thinking to growth. Through his work with international manufacturing and technology brands, he helps organizations translate complex innovation into human stories and measurable performance. Resources Strategic Entanglement by Shayne De La ForceConnect With Us Follow the Hosts: Jerry Gennaria & Carl Winstead Learn More about TOKY & Cline Get In Touch: hello@theintangiblebrand.com

    43 min

  6. 10/29/2025

    Ep 10 - Turning Feedback into Loyalty | Eddie Staley & Kristen Herndon

    Watch this episode on YouTube In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and guest host Jill Davis sit down with Eddie Staley, Chief Innovation Officer, and Kristen Herndon, Director of Client Experience at WithersRavenel, an employee-owned engineering and consulting firm built around the idea that when employees think and act like owners, clients feel the difference. Eddie and Kristen share how WithersRavenel connects culture, innovation, and client experience to deliver measurable impact. They unpack how employee ownership drives accountability, how client feedback loops shape continuous improvement, and how empathy turns data into loyalty. From turning “detractors” into “promoters” to measuring satisfaction through Net Promoter Scores (NPS), this episode explores how intentional listening and internal collaboration create consistency, trust, and growth — one experience at a time. In this Episode • How employee ownership translates into client care (00:03:10) • Building systems that make client feedback actionable (00:07:45) • Using NPS and sentiment data to strengthen relationships (00:14:20) • The role of empathy and curiosity in turning feedback into loyalty (00:19:55) • Connecting internal culture with external client experience (00:25:40) • Creating scalable, repeatable CX processes in professional services (00:31:15) • The future of client experience in employee-owned firms (00:37:30) Guests Eddie Staley is Chief Innovation Officer at WithersRavenel, where he leads efforts to align data, technology, and culture in service of a stronger client experience. Kristen Herndon is Director of Client Experience at WithersRavenel, guiding firm-wide initiatives to collect and act on client feedback, strengthen relationships, and translate insights into continuous improvement. Together, they help connect the dots between ownership mindset, innovation, and client satisfaction. Resources The Customer Experience Playbook The Intangible Brand episode featuring Tim Asimos (Client Savvy) WithersRavenel — withersravenel.com Connect With Us Follow the Hosts: Jerry Gennaria & Carl Winstead Learn More about TOKY & Cline Get In Touch: hello@theintangiblebrand.com

    55 min

  7. 10/15/2025

    Ep 9 - Building Trust Through Intentional Service | Darrell Grant

    Watch this episode on YouTube In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl sit down with Darrell Grant, Chief Experience Officer at Hightower Wealth Advisors, a firm redefining what client experience looks like in the wealth management space. Darrell shares how intentional service design — what he calls a “butler mindset” — transforms everyday client interactions into moments of trust and care. He breaks down how small cues, like a prepared meeting room or a thoughtful follow-up, can signal excellence long before results are measured. From his philosophy of “unbelievable” service to his belief that CX is a team sport, Darrell offers a practical look at how to build systems that make care consistent — not random. It’s a conversation about translating empathy into process and building trust by design. In this Episode The “butler mindset” and how it shapes every client touchpoint (00:02:15)Bringing a brand promise of “unbelievable” service to life (00:06:45)Why great CX depends on shared systems, not heroic gestures (00:12:30)The 30-day follow-up that shows up when support fades (00:18:10)How internal culture enables consistent, human client experiences (00:24:00)The importance of aligning employee onboarding with client experience (00:30:25)Guest Darrell Grant is Chief Experience Officer at Hightower Wealth Advisors, where he leads efforts to design and deliver a client experience rooted in trust, consistency, and care. Drawing inspiration from Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Guidara, Darrell helps his team turn small, thoughtful details into powerful signals of the firm’s brand promise. Resources Unreasonable Hospitality by Will GuidaraHightower Wealth Advisors Connect With Us Follow the Hosts: Jerry Gennaria & Carl Winstead Learn More about TOKY & Cline Get In Touch: hello@theintangiblebrand.com

    44 min

  8. 10/01/2025

    Ep 8 - PR That Builds Culture | Steven Gallo

    Watch this episode on YouTube In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl sit down with Steven Gallo, Vice President, Client Services at Reputation Ink, a B2B marketing and PR agency for professional services firms. Steve shares how PR can be more than an external visibility tool — it can also be a powerful driver of internal culture and employee engagement. Drawing on his work with architecture, engineering, and construction firms, Steve explains how to connect internal wins to external storytelling, choose the right communication channels, and align PR with HR and operations. In this Episode Why PR is about more than coverage — it’s about culture, credibility, and reputation (00:03:15)How PR can become part of an employee recognition strategy (00:14:35)Turning project wins and innovation stories into morale-boosting recognition (00:31:35)Why authentic employee voices resonate more than leadership soundbites (00:34:30)Creating a feedback loop with HR and operations to ground stories in reality (00:34:55)Guest Steven Gallo is Vice President, Client Services at Reputation Ink, a B2B marketing and PR agency that works with professional services firms. He helps clients align media strategy with both external reputation and internal culture, ensuring communications strengthen the brand from the inside out. Resources Spill The Ink PodcastReputation Ink websiteConnect With Us Follow the Hosts: Jerry Gennaria & Carl Winstead Learn More about TOKY & Cline Get In Touch: hello@theintangiblebrand.com

    41 min
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About

Welcome to The Intangible Brand, where we explore the connection between employee experience and client experience, and the hidden forces that make brands stick. Each episode offers practical insights and inspiration for building a brand people are proud to work for — and eager to work with. The Intangible Brand is brought to you by Cline and TOKY. Say hello@theintangiblebrand.com

Information

  • Creator
    TOKY & Cline
  • Years Active
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodes
    15
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 2026 TOKY Group, Inc. and Cline Design Associates
  • Show Website
    The Intangible Brand