AfterShock: Leadership for the 5th Industrial Revolution with Caroline Stokes

Caroline Stokes
  • 0.0 (0)
  • MANAGEMENT
  • UPDATED WEEKLY

Welcome to AfterShock: Leadership for the 5th Industrial Revolution. This podcast is for CEOs and change-makers navigating an era of AI disruption, climate crisis, and complex societal collapse. Why? Because reinvention isn’t a choice anymore, it’s how we create what’s next. Caroline Stokes is author of AfterShock to 2030:A CEO's Guide to Reinvention in the Age of AI, Climate, and Societal Collapse. A climate first, digital-only book. Available at Amazon, Apple Books, Barnes & Noble and Bookshop.org.

  1. JAN 18

    Ep. 21: Davos week: Multiple futures, and rethinking leadership with Gil Forer

    In this special episode timed for the World Economic Forum annual meeting, Caroline Stokes sits down with Gil Forer, a contractor and former senior partner with EY, to explore our new leadership reality and why leaders must act now—deploy, adopt, adapt, and learn publicly—because the gap will widen if they wait. They discuss why the past five years have supercharged change and introduce “NAVI”, our nonlinear, accelerated, volatile, and interconnected world. Gil and Caroline also explore why many traditional leadership tools (strategy, risk, governance, transformation roadmaps) are now not fit for purpose. They tackle the shift from VUCA to VUCA+/NAVI, why there’s no single future (only “futures”), and what it means to lead toward a superfluid enterprise—less hierarchy, more networked orchestration, and an entirely new relationship between humans, AI agents, and cognition. If you’re a CEO, senior leader, board member, or strategist trying to navigate AI, geopolitical instability, climate volatility, and compressed reinvention, this episode will give you language, frameworks, and a clear urgency. You can’t sit on the sidelines in 2026. In this episode: The new nature of change: why disruption isn’t new, but post-pandemic change is different—nonlinear, accelerated, volatile, interconnected.Not fit for purpose: why many legacy approaches no longer match reality.Rethink the foundations: why “rethink” isn’t a weekend exercise but deep cognitive work to rewrite long-held assumptions.No-regret moves: what leaders can do now that they won’t regret later, especially around resilience, agility, and operating flexibility.VUCA+/NAVI: why VUCA isn’t “gone”, but it’s incomplete; how NAVI better reflects today’s conditions, and why mindset updates matter.“Futures” is plural: why there’s no one linear path, and how that changes strategy, foresight, and decision-making.Importance of systems thinking: why design thinking helps with complicated problems, but systems thinking is essential for complex systems.Ecosystems as a leadership capability: moving beyond partnerships to orchestration—building fluid, issue-based coalitions in a fast-shifting world.Trust as hard currency: reframing trust as a strategic asset—invest, measure, and treat it like currency.Migration as economic infrastructure: why leaders should reframe migration as a strategic asset requiring investment, planning, and community-level thinking.AI as infrastructure: why AI isn’t just a technology wave—it’s an infrastructure play (compute, energy, data centres) reshaping power and access.The mic-drop leadership scenario: “What happens if I have 10 people and 50,000 agents?” How leadership, incentives, productivity, and teamwork get rewritten.Neuroscience & the human-machine era: why understanding cognition and behaviour design matters when we’re augmenting human work at scale.More about Gil Forer Gil is an intrapreneur and connector who thrives at the intersection of emerging technology, strategic foresight, and human collaboration. His career has centred on building what’s next: founding global innovation platforms, shaping future-thinking ecosystems, and advising leading organizations and high-growth start-ups on how to anticipate change and unlock new markets.  As a senior partner at EY, he launched and led global businesses that transformed how organizations innovate and scale, including EY wavespace, a network of experience hubs helping companies accelerate meaningful outcomes, and EYQ, a think tank exploring “what’s after what’s next” for CEOs and boards. He created the Innovation Realized Summit, a uniquely immersive and experience-based forum uniting business, government, and academic leaders to shape the future of enterprise. Gil also convened networks of experts and thought leaders to advise on business challenges.  Currently Gil is a part-time contractor with EY where he leads several initiatives around AI, foresight, and start-ups.

    36 min

  2. JAN 4

    Ep. 20: A New Year, and a new paradigm for strategy and culture, with Steven Fitzgerald.

    Caroline Stokes speaks with Steven Fitzgerald, an engineer-turned-CEO and culture designer who’s spent 30 years in technology and human-centred design, and now helps organizations move from brittle, mechanistic structures to living, adaptive ecosystems. They get into why “strategy is what gets done, and culture is how it gets done,” why treating your company like a machine no longer works in a complex, AI-supercharged world, and how leaders can redesign culture so people feel safe, stretch, and actually use the big collective brain of the organization. They also explore what it really means to be a human-centric company when things go wrong — including Steven’s story of a life-changing concussion and how his team redesigned his role around his recovery. If you’re a CEO, senior leader, or culture builder trying to navigate AI, polycrisis, and compressed reinvention without burning everyone out, this one will give you language, metaphors, and hope. In this episode:  Strategy vs culture: why “strategy is what we want to do, culture is how it gets done” — and why that distinction matters now.  Machine → ecosystem: moving beyond the Industrial Revolution “business as machine” metaphor into a living garden/ecosystem you nurture and prune.  Complicated vs complex: why you can “project plan” a space shuttle but you can’t project plan your way through culture, AI disruption, and polycrisis.  Brittle organizations: how hierarchy, red tape, and fear pool decisions at the top — and why that makes companies fragile as AI and climate shocks accelerate.  Using the “big brain”: designing transparency, autonomy, and psychological safety so decisions can move closer to the edges, where the information is.  AI as MSG for culture: why giving people AI “toys” isn’t enough if the system still keeps them caged — and what needs to change so AI actually liberates human potential.  The empathy crisis at work: understanding that hiding in bureaucracy is often about safety, not laziness — and why culture is designed, not “just the way things are.”  Learning vs development: Steven’s elegant distinction: learning is getting an idea; development is becoming a different person, team, or organization.  Appreciative inquiry & co-creation: working with the system, not on it — using appreciative inquiry, dialogic OD, and human-centred design so people build their own future.  A real story of human culture: how his company responded to his severe concussion by completely redesigning his role based on energy, not status — and what that taught him about patience, love, and long-term thinking in organizations. More about Steven Fitzgerald Habanero co-founder and president Steven Fitzgerald thinks about the world of work a lot. He has spent his life examining what motivates us as human beings and how thriving organizations build successful teams. Executive peers call Steven a thought partner. Whether challenging the status quo or providing a dose of inspiration, he’s the one in the room who helps move things along when everyone else is stuck. In the sometimes abstract world of people and culture, he brings a breadth of coaching and consulting skill to help teams cut to the chase and move to something clear and actionable. And while he’s often invited into the executive boardroom or asked to be the voice of the future of work, his most remarkable and proud workplace achievement has been a home called Habanero — his springboard for helping people and organizations thrive. https://www.habaneroconsulting.com/

    45 min

  3. 12/29/2025

    Ep. 19: How creativity and AI can help organizations evolve and thrive, with Rudi Anggono

    What if the most iconic toy on the planet is reinventing how humans and AI create together? In this conversation, Caroline sits down with Rudi Anggono, until very recently the Director of Creative Innovation at LEGO, to discuss leading a cultural, creative, and technological shift inside one of the world’s most beloved brands. If someone in your house unwrapped a LEGO set last week, this episode is the bridge from the familiar bricks on your floor… to the future of creative work, AI-augmented imagination, and how culture inside legacy companies must evolve. Rudi shares: • how he created his own role at LEGO by identifying a hidden organizational gap • why he believes AI can save creative roles rather than replace them • how he’s been using micro-experiments to build confidence, not fear, across teams • what “system in play” really means — and how LEGO’s design philosophy mirrors the future of work • why leaders must talk to their youngest team members if they want to stay relevant • how to create an owner mindset inside in-house creative teams • the mindset shift every leader needs to make in 2026 to thrive in the AI/creative explosion. This episode is a masterclass in creativity, systems thinking, and human-centred innovation from inside one of the most recognizable brands on Earth. In the short time since recording this podcast, Rudi has been named Global Head of Creative at Snap. More about Rudi Anggono Rudi is the new Global Head of Creative at Snap. He was previously the Head of Creative Innovation at the LEGO Group, where he led its integrated creative team within Product and Marketing Development and collaborated with Creative Play Lab on new product ideas. With a career spanning advertising, product design, and research, he has shaped iconic global brands and experiences. Formerly Global Executive Creative Director at Beyond X and Google Commerce UX, his patented design work influenced Google Travel and sustainability initiatives recognized by Sundar Pichai at the UN. Previously Head of Creative at Google ZOO and Executive Creative Director at TBWA\Paris for Nissan Europe, Rudi’s award-winning work includes Cannes Lions, EFFIEs, and an Emmy Award. https://www.linkedin.com/in/rudianggono/

    1h 3m

  4. 12/14/2025

    Ep. 18: How to stay human while AI evolves, with Helen Edwards of the Artificiality Institute

    What happens when humans and AI start to grow together? In this episode of AfterShock, Caroline Stokes speaks with Helen Edwards — co-founder of the Artificiality Institute and one of the world’s most insightful voices on human–AI cognition. Together they explore how AI is reshaping the way we think, feel, make decisions, and lead in a world that is being reconfigured by AI at unprecedented speed. Helen unpacks:  why awe and wonder are essential antidotes to fear  how symbiogenesis explains humans and AI “growing together”  the eight roles we give AI — and how each one reshapes identity  the five phases of human–AI adaptation  why efficiency can destroy meaning, and why uncertainty matters  what cognitive sovereignty really is — and why it’s now a leadership skill. At the end of the conversation, Helen offers a powerful insight about how to stay sovereign, curious, and emotionally grounded as AI accelerates — a cue that every AI user needs to hear. More about Helen Edwards Helen Edwards is co-founder of the Artificiality Institute, a nonprofit research organization studying how AI is changing what it means to be human. She has worked in AI for more than a decade, leading research on how technology transforms identity, work, and culture. Before this, Helen held senior roles as CIO for New Zealand’s National Grid and as an executive at PG&E. She is also a visiting researcher at UC Berkeley’s Center for Human-Compatible AI, where the focus is human over-reliance on AI. Artificiality Institute: https://artificialityinstitute.org/ The cognitive sovereignty cube: https://artificialityinstitute.org/cognitive-sovereignty-and-the-cube/

    56 min

  5. 11/30/2025

    Ep. 17: Darrell M. West on the macro forces that will redefine 2026: AI whiplash, global power shifts, the new space economy and why leaders must get humble

    I wanted to talk about next year right now. In this wide-ranging and unflinchingly honest conversation, Brookings Institution Senior Fellow Darrell M. West returns to the AfterShock podcast with a clear message: the pace of change has now broken the boundaries of what leaders once thought manageable. We talk about: • The macro trends already defining 2026: AI acceleration, climate volatility, geopolitical instability, authoritarian drift • Why white-collar workers should be just as prepared for AI displacement as entry-level roles • Whether Universal Basic Income is finally becoming unavoidable • The truth about CEO layoffs during record-profit years • How authoritarian decision-making is rising inside corporations, universities and governments • The warning sign every CEO should pay attention to in 2026 • What’s coming in the space economy  • How global inequity in AI infrastructure (like data centres) could destabilize the Global North • The one leadership trait Darrell believes will determine who thrives in the next two years • Why every leader must shift to a one-to-two-year strategy horizon — not 10. This is required listening for any CEO, CTO, board member or policy leader preparing for the Fifth Industrial Revolution. With Darrell’s direct and sober diagnosis, and with these insights and momentum to shift, we can move forward with some sense of purpose and intention. More about Darrell M. West Darrell M. West is a senior fellow in the Center for Technology Innovation within the Governance Studies program at the Brookings Institution and a co-editor-in-chief of TechTank. West is the former vice president and director of Governance Studies. His current research focuses on artificial intelligence, robotics, and the future of work. West is also director of the John Hazen White Manufacturing Initiative. Prior to joining Brookings, he was the John Hazen White Professor of Political Science and Public Policy and director of the Taubman Center for Public Policy at Brown University. His books include “Lies That Kill: A Citizen’s Guide to Disinformation” (Brookings Press, 2024 with co-author Elaine Kamarck); “Power Politics: Trump and the Assault on American Democracy” (Brookings Press, 2022); “Turning Point: Policymaking in the Era of Artificial Intelligence” (with co-author John R. Allen; Brookings Press, 2020); “Divided Politics, Divided Nation” (Brookings Press, 2019); “The Future of Work: Robots, AI, and Automation” (Brookings Press, 2018); and “Megachange: Economic Disruption, Political Upheaval, and Social Strife in the 21st Century” (Brookings Institution Press, 2016). https://www.brookings.edu/people/darrell-m-west/

    44 min

  6. 11/17/2025

    Ep. 16: How authentic leadership and ethical investment can shape a nation’s trajectory, with Tim Gocher OBE.

    In a time when “impact investing” too often becomes a marketing slogan, I sit down with Tim Gocher OBE—founder of Dolma Impact Fund and Dolma Foundation—to explore what authentic, ethical investment looks like in practice. Together, we explore:  How Nepal is becoming a regenerative and new frontier for the Fifth Industrial Revolution, where clean energy, digital infrastructure, and AI talent development intersect.  Why Tim rejects extractive models in favour of community ownership, shared prosperity, and rigorous environmental and social governance.  How hydropower and solar are powering sustainable, cold-climate data centres and why this region’s natural conditions make it ideal for AI’s energy future.  The innovative AI training pipelines turning local computer-science graduates into global engineers.  What it takes to align shareholder returns with societal value—without sacrificing either. In this conversation, Tim reveals how ethical leadership, disciplined investment, and trust at every level can transform an entire nation’s development trajectory. More about Tim Gocher OBE DL:   Tim is founder and CEO of Dolma Fund Management, the first international private equity firm to focus on empowering Nepal’s entrepreneur ecosystem. Under his leadership, Dolma has backed transformative healthcare and technology companies, including investments that expand access to quality medical care and AI-driven solutions. Dolma’s portfolio has created more than 11,000 jobs in Nepal and other developing countries and pioneered renewable energy and healthcare investments.   Tim is also the founder and chairman of the Dolma Foundation, a charity focused on education in Nepal. He sits on the Lord Mayor’s Ethical AI Initiative in London, where he contributes to shaping global dialogues on responsible AI adoption. Before launching Dolma, he spent 12 years with Deloitte, J.P. Morgan, and E.ON. He is an Honorary Professor of Sustainable Business at the University of Nottingham and sits on the Executive Advisory Committee at Fast-Infra in Basel, a collaboration involving the OECD and HSBC aimed at addressing the global sustainable infrastructure investment gap.   Tim has an MBA from London Business School, and in 2022 he was awarded the OBE by Queen Elizabeth II for his services to British Investment and Economic Development in Nepal.   https://www.linkedin.com/in/timgocher/

    46 min

  7. 11/03/2025

    Ep. 15: Good trouble with Alison Taylor: The new leadership mindset for CEOs

    In this episode of “AfterShock to 2030”, Caroline Stokes sits down with Alison Taylor, executive director of Ethical Systems, clinical professor at NYU Stern and author of “Higher Ground”. They examine what’s next for leadership, ethics, and credibility in a world where idealism alone isn’t enough.   Together, they explore: • Why overpromising on ethics and sustainability sets companies up for failure, and how to rebuild trust through realism, not rhetoric. • How AI hype is the new distraction, repeating the same leadership mistakes of the dot-com boom. • The burnout crisis inside ethics and sustainability teams, and what that reveals about leadership’s moral bandwidth. • The CEOs redefining success by choosing one issue they can lead on credibly, instead of pretending to solve everything. • Why courageous listening and proximity to impact are now the most underrated strategic skills of the Fifth Industrial Revolution.   More about Alison Taylor: Alison Taylor is a clinical associate professor at NYU Stern School of Business, and the executive director at Ethical Systems. Her previous work experience includes being a managing director at non-profit business network BSR and a senior managing director at Control Risks. She holds sustainability advisory roles at KKR and Unilever, and advises many other firms on strategic integrity challenges. She has expertise in strategy, sustainability, political and social risk, culture and behavior, human rights, ethics and compliance, stakeholder engagement, anti-corruption and professional responsibility. Alison’s book, “Higher Ground: How Business Can do the Right Thing in a Turbulent World”, was published by Harvard Business Review Press in February 2024, and won the 2024 Porchlight Award for best leadership and strategy book. She received her Bachelor of Arts in Modern History from Balliol College, Oxford University, her MA in International Relations from the University of Chicago, and MA in Organizational Psychology from Columbia University. Higher Ground on Substack: https://findhigherground.substack.com/

    42 min

  8. 10/20/2025

    Ep. 14: Chronoleadership: Redesigning work around a human’s most productive time, with Camilla Kring, PhD

    We are expected to fit our lives into the 9-to-5 structure. But what if our biology was never designed for industrial time?   I speak with Camilla Kring, PhD—chronobiologist, author of “Chronoleadership”, and founder of Super Navigators—about how leaders, teams, and families can thrive when we work with our circadian rhythms instead of against them.   Camilla explains:    Why “early isn’t discipline, late isn’t laziness”—it’s genetics.  How the early-riser bias still shapes workplaces, schools, and families.  The health costs of “social jetlag” and living out of sync with your body clock  How practical tools can help, such as the Munich Chronotype Questionnaire, team mapping, and chrono-inclusive meetings.  Why trust and psychological safety are prerequisites for chronoleadership.  How AI and flexible scheduling could finally align work with real lives and family structures.  What this means for CEOs, couples, parents, and anyone who’s ever felt shame for their sleep pattern.   I share how Camilla’s work has helped me embrace my own extreme early chronotype—and rethink my relationship with my son, a late chronotype.   More about Camilla Kring, PhD: Camilla Kring (b. 1977) is a visionary engineer with a passion for transforming how we live and work. With a PhD in work-life balance and expertise in chronobiology, she founded Super Navigators to help individuals and organizations create flexible workplaces that accommodate different chronotypes and family structures. Since 2005, Camilla has consulted with organizations on four continents to create healthier, more productive work environments. Her insights have been featured in The New York Times, the BBC, and The Guardian. Camilla is the author of six books and a TEDx speaker.    Camilla is a time activist dedicated to creating fairer and more flexible time structures in work and society. In 2006, she founded B-Society, a nonprofit organization advocating for later start times in schools and workplaces. She challenges the cultural bias that favors early risers and pushes night owls to adapt. Her vision is a world where all chronotypes have equal opportunities to thrive—in health, education, and work.   Links: Super Navigators: https://www.supernavigators.com/ Applied Chronobiology: https://www.appliedchronobiology.com/ Test your chronotype: https://www.appliedchronobiology.com/test RNA Test: https://www.bodyclock.health/ Chronoleadership: https://a.co/d/jbSv2Q9

    54 min
See All (21)

About

Welcome to AfterShock: Leadership for the 5th Industrial Revolution. This podcast is for CEOs and change-makers navigating an era of AI disruption, climate crisis, and complex societal collapse. Why? Because reinvention isn’t a choice anymore, it’s how we create what’s next. Caroline Stokes is author of AfterShock to 2030:A CEO's Guide to Reinvention in the Age of AI, Climate, and Societal Collapse. A climate first, digital-only book. Available at Amazon, Apple Books, Barnes & Noble and Bookshop.org.

Information