The Off-Ramp Project

Karla McLaren

How do we create (and survive) drastic changes? How do we leave unhealthy relationships, groups, belief systems, or entire identities? How do we take off-ramps when the crowd is pushing us forward, and how can we learn to create off-ramps for others -- especially when we've been taught to see them as our enemies? These questions are crucial in a time when so many of us have been drawn into polarized belief systems and conspiracy theories that are tearing apart families, friendships, political parties, and the foundations of American governance itself. But change and reclamation are possible at any time. Researcher, author, emotions and empathy expert, and cult survivor Karla McLaren, M.Ed. explores how we can reclaim ourselves and provide support for others. We all need off-ramps when we're being separated from each other, and when we're being taught to see enemies in anyone not like us. With personal stories, extensive research, emotional genius, empathic badassery, and humor, we explore how and why this bold American experiment has become a tragic powder keg, and how we can reclaim our good hearts, our good minds, and our good souls. We can imagine, build, and maintain off-ramps for ourselves and each other. Welcome to the Off-Ramp Project.

  1. Jul 16

    Where Do We Go from Here?

    In this final episode of season 2, I look at where we've been and where we're headed. How do we comprehend the multiple threads of trouble that have brought us to this fractured time? And when we comprehend them, how do we respond? What works? What have people tried? And what does the research show? The damage that has been done to us so that people in power could have more power -- and so that a national religion could be forced onto us -- is serious. But we can be equally serious, and we can build off-ramps for ourselves and each other. In this cultic time, it's important to understand abuse, manipulation, and cultic mechanisms of control so that we can protect ourselves -- and also avoid creating cultic mechanisms ourselves, or "cult-hopping" out of ignorance. It's also essential to understand our emotions so that no one can grab onto them and control us. Good and grounded information is out there, and I've shared it in all 32 episodes so far. Now it's time for me to rebuild my Off-Ramp book proposal and get to work. I'll check in as I go, and let you know how it's going. Thank you for being with me through this process. You can find all kinds of free information about emotions and empathy on my YouTube Channel and on my website, karlamclaren.com. Books mentioned in this episode: https://bookshop.org/lists/the-off-ramp-project The Language of Emotions by Karla McLaren The Quiet Damage by Jesselyn Cook The Klansman's Son by R. Derek Black A Billion Years by Mike Rinder Unfollow by Megan Phelps-Roper C Street by Jeff Sharlet The Family by Jeff Sharlet Escaping Utopia by Janja Lalich and Karla McLaren Taking the War Out of Our Words by Sharon Ellison Calling In by Loretta Ross High Conflict by Amanda Ripley I Never Thought of It That Way by Mónica Guzmán

    Where Do We Go from Here?

  2. Jul 9

    How Do We Talk To Each Other?

    How do we talk to each other when we've been trained to see each other as problems to be solved -- instead of as real human beings? I've been searching on this question for more than two decades now, and reading book after book on communication, conflict, and how to speak the truth without erasing the truth of other people. Of course, I've also been studying emotions and empathy. At this time, when our emotions, our empathy, our attention, and our ability to connect to each other have been for sale to the highest bidder, how do we retrieve ourselves and reconnect to each other? How do we take an off-ramp when the entire machine is making money and gaining power by pushing us onto a road that goes nowhere good? It will take some deep thinking, some deep feeling, and some deep work to retrieve our better natures, but it's good work if we can get it. Books mentioned in this episode: https://bookshop.org/lists/the-off-ramp-project Taking the War Out of Our Words by Sharon Ellison Calling In by Loretta Ross High Conflict by Amanda Ripley Talk to Me by Emma Van Der Klift I Never Thought of It That Way by Mónica Guzmán

    How Do We Talk To Each Other?

  3. Jul 2

    The Secret Heart of Violence

    There is a secret heart inside violence, but most of us are taught to avoid violence, which means that we don't tend to learn much about it. In this episode, I explore the conditions that create healthy forms of violence and the conditions that make violence frakked up and a losing game for everyone. Violence has an important purpose, and it can be understood and addressed intelligently. In fact, people (and animals) have been studying and responding to violence skillfully for centuries. We can take an off-ramp from abusive and violent relationships, ideologies, and groups -- but first, we have to understand how we went down this wrong road, and how we can get onto a road that's going somewhere better. Mentioned in this episode: My Master's thesis on autism: Interrogating Normal: Autism Social Skills Training at the Margins of a Social Fiction: https://scholarworks.calstate.edu/concern/theses/mw22v614s Books mentioned in this episode: https://bookshop.org/lists/the-off-ramp-project Talk to Me by Emma Van Der Klift Warriors and Peacemakers by Mark Cooney The Power Manual by Cyndi Suarez When Killing is a Crime by Tony Waters (and me!): https://www.rienner.com/title/When_Killing_Is_a_Crime

    The Secret Heart of Violence

  4. Jun 25

    Avoiding Hierarchies of Human Worth

    Hierarchies give us ways to grade things and put them in order, which is helpful -- UNLESS we use them to grade human beings. What I call "hierarchies of human worth" create unnecessary trouble for everyone. At this painful and chaotic time in American history, we are struggling under multiple hierarchies of human worth: race, gender, sexual orientation, wealth level, and religiosity, to name a few. Each of these hierarchies damages the emotional functioning, empathic capacities, and social functioning of everyone trapped within them. UNLESS people understand how these hierarchies work and how to address that damage, no matter where you land in them. Hierarchies of human worth lead us in ugly, painful, and ultimately worthless directions. There are better ways to structure human traits, human activities, and human cultures, and we can take an off-ramp and build them together. Books mentioned in this episode: https://bookshop.org/lists/karla-mclaren-s-books The Power of Emotions at Work by Karla McLaren Escaping Utopia By Janja Lalich and Karla McLaren The Language of Emotions by Karla McLaren The Art of Empathy by Karla McLaren

    Avoiding Hierarchies of Human Worth

  5. Jun 18

    Seeking the Deeper Story

    Knowing the deeper story -- in a time when the stories we're told tend to be shallow and manipulative -- is a way to reclaim your humanity, your emotions, your empathy, your attention, and your power. It's also a way to reclaim the humanity of the people who have been set against you -- as you have been set against them -- as a way for the people in power to control us all. Well, sorry neither! There is a deeper story here that needs to be told so that we can reclaim ourselves, each other, and our communities again. In this episode: Braver Angels: https://braverangels.org/our-mission/ Books mentioned in this episode: https://bookshop.org/lists/the-off-ramp-project The Managed Heart: Commercialization of Human Feeling by Arlie Russell Hochschild Stolen Pride: Loss, Shame, and the Rise of the Right by Arlie Russell Hochschild Strangers in Their Own Land: Anger and Mourning on the American Right by Arlie Russell Hochschild The Power of Emotions at Work: Accessing the Vital Intelligence in Your Workplace by Karla McLaren: https://bookshop.org/lists/karla-mclaren-s-books

    Seeking the Deeper Story

  6. Jun 11

    It's All about Power

    When I talk about taking an off-ramp -- from a group, a relationship, an ideology, a way of living, a way of doing anything -- I'm really talking about retrieving yourself and retrieving your power. In this time of end-stage capitalism, an out of control attention economy, and the burden of multiple, abusive "hierarchies of human worth," it seems that everything wants to control our time, our attention, our thoughts, our emotions, our empathy, and our lives. Well, sorry neither. Because each of these things belongs to us. And none of them are for sale when we reclaim our own power. Power is being used in often ugly ways right now, but that has nothing to do with power as a concept. Power is the ability to make change, determine our lives, and choose our responses. Even in a prison-like situation of an abusive relationship, a cultic group, an actual prison, or a country in chaos, we can reclaim our inner lives and find -- or build -- off-ramps so that we can retrieve our authority, our agency, and our sense of self. I have been in all four of these situations, and I've seen people reclaim themselves; I've lived it. So, as you look around at people trapped in rigid ideologies and hierarchies of human worth (and you think maybe they'll never recover), just know this: The time to make up your mind about people is never. Mentioned in this episode: Braver Angels: https://braverangels.org/our-mission/ Book: The Power Manual: How to Master Complex Power Dynamics by Cyndi Suarez: https://bookshop.org/lists/the-off-ramp-project

    It's All about Power

  7. Jun 4

    How to Reclaim Your Emotions

    Your emotions belong to you, but they are also for sale in the attention economy and in end-stage capitalism. Many people are making a great deal of money by jacking into your emotions and manipulating your empathy for their own gain. But there are things you can do to reclaim your emotions and yourself. In this time of intentional chaos, emotional and empathic manipulation, and manufactured polarization, reclaiming your emotions is a crucial and life-giving activity. Here are some ideas to help you reclaim your emotions and listen to their wisdom. Mentioned in this episode: Ground News: https://ground.news/ Braver Angels: https://braverangels.org/our-mission/ Books: https://bookshop.org/lists/the-off-ramp-project The Gift of Fear and And Other Survival Signals That Protect Us from Harm by Gavin De Becker McMindfulness: How Mindfulness Became the New Capitalist Spirituality by Ronald Purser The Upside of Stress: Why Stress is Good for You, and How to Get Good at It by Kelly McGonigal The Language of Emotions: What Your Feelings Are Trying to Tell You by Karla McLaren: https://bookshop.org/lists/karla-mclaren-s-books

    How to Reclaim Your Emotions

  8. May 28

    Embrace Ideas, not Ideologies

    Ideas have fluidity; they can change and be added to, and they can be wrong, and that's fine. It's just an idea; we have thousands of them. But ideologies become rigid very quickly, and they tend to become hierarchical (they claim to be the best, such that other ideologies are not worthy), which means that the people who have signed up for them may have a very hard time taking off-ramps from them. Ideologies can also lean very cultic, because they often become transcendent belief systems, which is one of the four aspects of cultic control that make up Janja Lalich's Bounded Choice model (see episodes 3 through 6 in season 1 of this podcast). Understanding the difference between ideas and ideologies is essential if you need to take an off-ramp, or create an off-ramp for someone else. Do you have the freedom to change, to think your own thoughts, and to have your own ideas? If so, the changes you need to make might be difficult, but they won't be overwhelming. Ideas might be hard to give up, but they don't exist to entrap you. Ideologies, on the other hand, are built to be sticky and often controlling. If you or someone you know got caught up in a rigid ideology, you or they will most likely need some support to take an off-ramp, and it's important to know the difference so you know what help you need for yourself (or how you can help others). Thank you for working to create off-ramps in this time of rigid ideologies, cultic control mechanisms, intentional chaos, end-stage capitalism, and emotional (and empathic) manipulation. Your presence makes a difference. Book mentioned in this episode: Missing the Solstice by Karla McLaren: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F6TRWRBZ

    Embrace Ideas, not Ideologies
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Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
3 Ratings

About

How do we create (and survive) drastic changes? How do we leave unhealthy relationships, groups, belief systems, or entire identities? How do we take off-ramps when the crowd is pushing us forward, and how can we learn to create off-ramps for others -- especially when we've been taught to see them as our enemies? These questions are crucial in a time when so many of us have been drawn into polarized belief systems and conspiracy theories that are tearing apart families, friendships, political parties, and the foundations of American governance itself. But change and reclamation are possible at any time. Researcher, author, emotions and empathy expert, and cult survivor Karla McLaren, M.Ed. explores how we can reclaim ourselves and provide support for others. We all need off-ramps when we're being separated from each other, and when we're being taught to see enemies in anyone not like us. With personal stories, extensive research, emotional genius, empathic badassery, and humor, we explore how and why this bold American experiment has become a tragic powder keg, and how we can reclaim our good hearts, our good minds, and our good souls. We can imagine, build, and maintain off-ramps for ourselves and each other. Welcome to the Off-Ramp Project.

Information

  • Creator
    Karla McLaren
  • Years Active
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodes
    32
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Karla McLaren 2025
  • Show Website
    The Off-Ramp Project

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