Leadership isn’t a title — it’s service under pressure. Former U.S. diplomat, leadership coach, and Hampden-Sydney College professor Hugo Rodriguez joins Jen Brown to share the leadership lessons from co-teaching Expeditionary Leadership: a ten-day backcountry course that takes ten young men deep into Idaho’s Sawtooth wilderness carrying 50-pound packs. It’s a vivid, real-world look at followership, servant leadership, and leading when the stakes are real. Hugo walks through the full arc: rotating daily leadership teams (leader, deputy, medic, navigator), blistered feet and heavy packs, nightly debriefs around the fire, and the messy, honest work of a group learning that leadership is service, not status. The turning point is a mid-week “storming” session where the young men asked the professors to step away so they could confront themselves and build their own norms — moving from criticism to accountability, from followership as complaint to ownership. It all culminates in a flash flood on the final day that tests everything they’d built. Along the way, Jen and Hugo connect the experience to the Tuckman model of team development (forming, storming, norming, performing), the real difference between teaching, mentoring, and coaching, and a message that lands hard: you’re never too old to find a new calling, and leadership is learned by doing. Key Takeaways - Leadership isn’t the glory of the title — it’s “stinky feet”: inspecting everyone’s blisters, matching the pace of your least-experienced teammate, and doing the unglamorous work that keeps the team moving. - No plan survives first contact. Blisters, hills, uneven experience, and bad maps force leaders to adapt in real time. - Followers make or break a team. The breakthrough came when they stopped critiquing the leader and started asking, “What could I have done to help my leader succeed?” - “There is no cavalry.” A leader asked the professors to eat alone so the team could confront itself, set new norms, and own the outcome. - You learn leadership by doing — the deepest lessons came from what didn’t work. - Managed risk is the teacher. You can’t replicate crisis in a classroom. - It’s never too late to find a new calling. After 25 years in the Foreign Service, Hugo found a second one teaching leadership. Chapters / Timestamps - 00:00 — Intro & welcome - 01:48 — Inside “Expeditionary Leadership”: 10 days in the Sawtooth wilderness - 13:52 — “Leadership looks like stinky feet” - 20:28 — The turning point: “There is no cavalry. We own this.” - 24:26 — The Tuckman model: forming, storming, norming, performing - 29:31 — The hike out, the rain, and the flash flood - 44:42 — Takeaways: never too old to pivot; lead by doing Mentioned in This Episode - Expeditionary Leadership — Hampden-Sydney College’s ten-day wilderness leadership course with Vinton Bruton, Director of the Wilson Center - The Tuckman model of team development - The Emergency Mind — course reading - Meditations by Marcus Aurelius — course reading - Sawtooth Lodge — with thanks to Kristy Heinrichs and the whole team - Boise County Sheriffs and Idaho Search and Rescue
