Church Staff Book Club

Jonathan Malm
  • 5.0 (3)
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A podcast for church leaders who want to grow but don’t have time to read every book. Join authors Jonathan Malm and Jason Young as they break down leadership books chapter by chapter, sharing practical insights and real-life ministry applications along the way. Whether you’re reading along or just listening in, this is your go-to resource for becoming a better leader... One conversation at a time.

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  1. Episode 1

    Kindness Isn't Soft... It's the Most Important Part of Our Leadership

    Nobody wants to admit they want to be liked. But what if likability isn't about feeding your ego... What if it's about whether people actually want to follow you? Welcome to Season 4 of the Church Staff Book Club. Jonathan Malm and Jason Young are diving into their own book, Likable Leader, and right out of the gate they're wrestling with the title itself. Because "likable" sounds like something a people-pleaser cares about, not a serious leader. Except the research says otherwise. And so does every volunteer who ever quietly stopped showing up. In this episode, you'll learn: Why likability has nothing to do with personality type and everything to do with consistent behaviorThe critical difference between being nice and being kind as well as why confusing them is quietly killing your team cultureHow the strongest leaders use kindness while holding people accountableWhy the banking metaphor is the most honest picture of how trust actually works in leadershipWhat "honor culture" gets wrong and why you shouldn't have to manufacture what should happen naturallyWhy people stay with leaders not because of competence but because of how they're consistently treated7 simple questions to take inventory of your own likability right nowPlus Jonathan shares what it was like watching his brother lead a worship team with zero sugarcoating and total loyalty from everyone on it, why the sandwich feedback method is eroding trust faster than you think, and why being a chameleon leader is the fastest way to lose your kids.

  2. Episode 2

    Consistency is More Powerful than Charisma

    Your team isn't afraid of your feedback. They're afraid of not knowing which version of you is going to show up today. In this episode, Jonathan Malm and Jason Young dig into Chapter 2 of Likable Leader and reframe what integrity actually means for leaders. Forget the moral definition for a moment. The kind of integrity that builds followership is about consistency. Predictability. Being the same person on a hard Tuesday as you are on a great Sunday. And it turns out, that kind of integrity might be the greatest gift you can give your team. In this episode, you'll learn: Why "predictable" is actually one of the highest compliments a leader can receiveHow unpredictability, not workload, is one of the biggest hidden accelerators of team burnoutThe difference between being predictably likable and predictably unlikable and the false beliefs that drive eachWhy larger organizations and growing churches are especially vulnerable to leaders becoming callous without realizing itHow your values create a filter for every decision you make and why the hierarchy matters more than the listFour questions to ask yourself before making any leadership decisionWhy your employees, not your mentor or spouse, are actually the least likely to tell you who you really arePlus Jason gets candid about some of the most arrogant leaders he's encountered in 28 years of church work, Jonathan reflects on what it looks like when churches use "their reward is in heaven" as an excuse not to show appreciation, and both of them make the case that the closer you get to the center of a church, the kinder it should feel... not the opposite.

  3. Episode 3

    It's Not a People Problem, but a Communications One

    Most leaders think they're good listeners. Most of them are wrong. And the gap between what you intend to communicate and what your team actually hears might be quietly costing you more followership than you realize. In this episode, Jonathan Malm and Jason Young dig into Chapter 3 of Likable Leader, unpacking why the most likable leaders aren't necessarily the best speakers... they're the best listeners. From the airport PA system trick to the noise that's already drowning out your message, this one gets refreshingly practical about what great communication actually looks like in a church context. In this episode, you'll learn: Why leaders often have a communication problem, not a people problem and how to tell the differenceThe listening statistics that should humble every church leader (only 8% of mid-level leaders are rated as good listeners by their teams)Six practical ways to actively listen that go way beyond just being quiet while someone else talksHow "noise" – organizational chaos, staff transitions, conflict, emotional departures – distorts everything you say and how to navigate itWhy your casual comments and facial expressions communicate just as loudly as your wordsThe three-announcement rule from airport PA systems and why it applies directly to how you lead changeWhy slow leaders can actually calm an anxious team and how to know when to adjust your speed limitPlus Jonathan gets honest about how he's had to learn to repeat back what his wife says just to realize he misunderstood her, and Jason reflects on what changed in his leadership when he stopped rushing to judgment and started assuming people are doing the best they can with what they're carrying.

  4. Episode 4

    Your Team Can't Hit a Target They Can't See

    Every church says they have a vision. Very few have one their team can actually act on. And when vision is vague, people don't just drift... they fill in the gaps with their own. In this episode, Jonathan Malm and Jason Young dig into Chapter 4 of Likable Leader, unpacking what makes a vision compelling enough that people actually want to give their lives to it, not just show up and do their jobs. From ego-driven vision that quietly uses people to build a platform, to fake work that simulates progress without actually moving anything forward, this episode gets honest about why so many church leaders struggle to cast vision that sticks. In this episode, you'll learn: Why vague mission statements like "love God, love people" leave your team filling in the gaps with their own vision and why that's a leadership problem, not a people problemThe subtle but destructive difference between a vision for the church and a vision about the leaderWhy staff don't resent a leader's success... they resent feeling used to create itHow uncertainty around vision is one of the most overlooked accelerators of church staff burnoutWhat "fake work" is, why it's everywhere in church world, and how to stop creating itWhy you don't have to pioneer the church's overall vision but you do have to be a participant in itThe case for margin: why giving your team white space isn't laziness, it's one of the greatest gifts a leader can givePlus Jonathan reflects on what it looks like when a church's support staff and senior pastor are clearly operating from two completely different visions, and Jason makes the case that vision leaks... and so does meaning.

  5. Episode 5

    Do You Show Up to Monitor or to Support?

    In this episode, Jonathan Malm and Jason Young dig into Chapter 5 of Likable Leader, unpacking what it actually means to support and invest in the people you lead. Jason shares the story of implementing a scheduling change that caused 210 volunteers to quit overnight and what his pastoral team said to him in that moment that changed everything. Jonathan reflects on the difference between leaders who show up to inspect and leaders who show up to encourage, and why your team can feel the difference immediately. In this episode, you'll learn: Why the most overlooked form of support isn't resources... it's your visible presence at the right momentHow to identify what actually motivates each person on your team (growth, community, autonomy, or purpose) and why you can't just ask themWhy the leaders who get promoted are often the worst candidates for leadership and how to navigate that shift yourselfHow to show your team real movement toward vision, not just activity that looks like progressWhy acknowledging lost yardage is just as important as celebrating wins and what happens when you don'tThe "blow it up" exercise that helps you reset your vision when you've been running on autopilotWhy over-relying on your most committed volunteers is a quiet form of lazy leadershipPlus Jason makes the case that celebration through the lens of vision (not the lens of the leader) is one of the most powerful fuels a team can have, and Jonathan shares why sometimes the most supportive thing you can do is just show up.

  6. Episode 6

    Clarity is the New Kindness

    You don't have to have all the answers. You just have to know the next step and have the courage to say it out loud. In this episode, Jonathan Malm and Jason Young dig into Chapter 6 of Likable Leader, making the case that clarity isn't just a communication skill; it's one of the most profound acts of care a leader can offer their team. Because ambiguity doesn't just slow people down. It exhausts them, puts them in survival mode, and quietly chips away at everything you've built together. In this episode, you'll learn: Why unclear leaders – even kind, charismatic, encouraging ones – are perceived as exhausting to work forHow clarity creates psychological safety and actually lightens your team's mental loadWhy a clear mistake is often better than unclear leadership and how humility makes that workThe difference between leadership clarity with control and leadership clarity without control (and why Andy Stanley's volunteer story is the perfect example)What imprecise spiritual language is actually costing your church and why we use it when we're trying to be likedHow moving faster than your organization can sustain destroys clarity and why stopping temporarily might be the wisest leadership move you make all yearWhy leaders raised in unstable environments often become crisis leaders and what it costs their teams when they stay therePlus Jason gets honest about a resource he rushed to print that came out with missing page numbers, Jonathan reflects on what it felt like to panic on the basketball court when no one knew which basket to shoot for, and both of them make the case that the genius is usually already in the room... your job is to define the problem clearly enough to let it out.

  7. Episode 7

    Humility Is Making Room for Everyone Else

    Arrogance makes leadership about the leader. Humility makes leadership big enough for other people. And the difference between the two might be the thing your team is waiting for you to figure out. In this episode, Jonathan Malm and Jason Young dig into Chapter 7 of Likable Leader, reframing what humility actually means for leaders and why it has nothing to do with downplaying yourself or deflecting every compliment. From false humility that argues with people trying to encourage you, to ego quietly becoming part of your organization's operating system, this conversation goes places most leadership books won't. In this episode, you'll learn: Why humility and insecurity are not the same thing and how confusing them is quietly shrinking your organizationThe real test of humility: not whether you can admit you're good at something, but what happens inside when someone tells you that you areHow to know if your ego has become part of your church's operating system (hint: if nothing can happen without your approval, it has)Why letting a 60% idea win is sometimes better for your organization than making sure your best idea always gets throughWhat happens in the room when a leader admits "I got that wrong" and why the exhale you'll hear is one of the most powerful moments in team cultureWhy shrinking the vision to match yourself is actually a form of arrogance, not humilityThe parenting analogy that perfectly captures what long-term humble leadership looks likePlus Jonathan reflects on what it cost his team when he spent years fighting to make sure his ideas won, and Jason calls out the soundtrack many leaders play on repeat: "if I'm leading, I need to have the answer."

  8. Episode 8

    Facts Tell People What Matters. Stories Make them Feel It.

    You can have the best content in the room and still lose the room. But the right story, even a short one, can turn a hostile audience into a leaned-in one before you've said anything else of substance. In this episode, Jonathan Malm and Jason Young dig into Chapter 8 of Likable Leader, making the case that storytelling isn't just a communication skill; it's one of the most powerful trust-building tools a leader has. From why Jason opens every emotional intelligence workshop by admitting he was once told he had none, to why announcements at church consistently fail, to the carrot costume that showed up right after the Gaza attack... this one is equal parts practical and honest. In this episode, you'll learn: Why stories build trust faster than facts, credentials, or enthusiasm ever willThe neuroscience behind "neural coupling" and why your team literally simulates the experience you're describing when you tell a story wellHow to make your story about the listener, not yourself... and why that distinction separates good storytellers from forgettable onesWhy telling someone else's story (with permission) can be more powerful than telling your ownThe difference between connecting through story and manipulating through story as well as the warning signs that you've crossed the lineWhy church announcements fail so consistently and what to do insteadHow even an 8-10 second social media video can carry the emotional weight of a full storyPlus Jonathan walks through "Jim's story" as a model for why volunteers open doors on Sunday mornings, and Jason makes the case that your stories give your vision somewhere to live.

See All Season 4 (8)

Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
3 Ratings

About

A podcast for church leaders who want to grow but don’t have time to read every book. Join authors Jonathan Malm and Jason Young as they break down leadership books chapter by chapter, sharing practical insights and real-life ministry applications along the way. Whether you’re reading along or just listening in, this is your go-to resource for becoming a better leader... One conversation at a time.

Information

  • Creator
    Jonathan Malm
  • Episodes
    35
  • Seasons
    4
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2025 Jonathan Malm
  • Show Website
    Church Staff Book Club

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