Verticals: A Weekly Biz Show

Luke Sophinos
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A VC and a Founder intellectually spar on Vertical Tech & AI: covering the latest news, unpacking in-depth business strategies, and interviewing world-class leaders in the space, every Thursday.

  1. 3d ago

    Why Vertical AI Wins The Decade | Dom Dinardo

    What if the next great software companies don't look like Salesforce… or even ChatGPT? Dominic Dinardo has spent more than 25 years watching the software industry reinvent itself. He joined Salesforce in 2002, before “cloud computing” was even the term everyone used. He later joined Veeva and learned firsthand why going deep into a single industry could create a completely different and incredibly powerful software business. Now, as founder and CEO of Aforza, he's betting on the next evolution: vertical AI. Dom sees the history of modern software in three waves: horizontal SaaS dominated the 2000s, vertical SaaS emerged in the 2010s, and he believes the 2020s will belong to AI products built around the workflows, data and expertise of individual industries. In this episode of Verticals, Luke and Nic explore what actually changes when you build AI for a specific industry. They discuss: -Why vertical AI could define the next decade of software -What Salesforce taught Dom about horizontal SaaS -The concept of “vertical intimacy” he learned at Veeva -How to identify industries ripe for vertical software disruption -Why generic AI copilots often struggle to demonstrate ROI -Why the best enterprise AI may use photos, voice and actions instead of chat -What founders can learn from Veeva's go-to-market model If you're building vertical AI, enterprise software or the next generation of SaaS, this is a look at how one founder who lived through the previous two software waves is approaching the third. 🎟️ TICKETS DROPPED. Vertical Software Summit — 5-billion-dollar Vertical AI CEOs confirmed to speak. Snag a ticket before they're gone: https://verticalsaasgroup.com/conference 👉 FOLLOW DOMINIC DINARDO LINKEDIN ➡️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/dominicdinardo/ 👉 FOLLOW LUKE SOPHINOS X ➡️ https://x.com/lukesophinos LINKEDIN ➡️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/lukesophinos/ NEWSLETTER ➡️ https://www.newsletter.lukesophinos.com/ 👉 FOLLOW NIC POULOS X ➡️ https://x.com/picnoulos LINKEDIN ➡️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/npoulos/ NEWSLETTER ➡️ https://insights.euclid.vc/ 🎬 TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 Why this decade belongs to vertical AI 02:23 From horizontal SaaS to vertical SaaS 07:18 The power of “vertical intimacy” 09:43 Why Dom chose the $30B consumer goods market 13:19 Why horizontal software struggles with vertical problems 16:56 How Aforza evolved from SaaS to AI 18:27 How vertical AI transformed a real sales team 24:40 Why generic AI copilots struggle to create ROI 28:22 How to price vertical AI without selling tokens 32:36 Why the future of AI isn't just a chat interface 38:33 The enterprise workflow AI can completely change 46:04 Scaling enterprise AI across 40+ markets 48:27 How to make enterprise implementations actually work 51:10 Which SaaS companies are most threatened by AI 52:16 The biggest lesson Dom learned from Veeva TOPICS 1. Vertical AI & Vertical SaaS 2. Salesforce & Veeva 3. Evolution of SaaS 4. AI Agents 5. AI Monetization

  2. Sep 9

    How AI Is Rewriting the Marketplace Model | Mike Duboe

    What happens to marketplaces when buyers and sellers don't need to be human anymore? AI agents are getting increasingly capable of searching, negotiating, purchasing and eventually transacting with other agents. And according to Mike Duboe, General Partner at Greylock, that could completely reshape how marketplaces and commerce itself work. In this episode of Verticals, Luke and Nic sit down with Mike to explore why AI could make entirely new markets addressable to the marketplace model. Transactions that once required brokers, sales reps, phone calls and complex negotiations could increasingly be handled autonomously by agents. They discuss: -Which transactions consumers will actually hand over to AI -Why B2B commerce could be transformed by autonomous agents -How AI unlocks markets that were previously too complex for marketplaces -What trust and reputation look like when the buyer is an AI agent -Whether vertical SaaS and marketplaces eventually converge If you're building in vertical AI, marketplaces, B2B commerce or agentic software, this episode is a look at what happens when AI doesn't just help us shop, it starts participating in the economy itself. 🎟️ TICKETS DROPPED. Vertical Software Summit — 5-billion-dollar Vertical AI CEOs confirmed to speak. Snag a ticket before they're gone: https://verticalsaasgroup.com/conference 👉 FOLLOW MIKE DUBOE LINKEDIN ➡️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikeduboe/ 👉 FOLLOW LUKE SOPHINOS X ➡️ https://x.com/lukesophinos LINKEDIN ➡️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/lukesophinos/ NEWSLETTER ➡️ https://www.newsletter.lukesophinos.com/ 👉 FOLLOW NIC POULOS X ➡️ https://x.com/picnoulos LINKEDIN ➡️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/npoulos/ NEWSLETTER ➡️ https://insights.euclid.vc/ 🎬 TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 How AI could transform B2B commerce 02:02 Why Mike is still betting on network effects 03:43 AI is making new marketplaces possible 05:20 Which purchases should AI automate? 08:30 The opportunity for agent-to-agent marketplaces 10:02 What is a “dark marketplace”? 11:46 Why AI threatens traditional marketplace take rates 13:54 Proprietary catalogs as the new marketplace moat 16:33 Trust in a world of autonomous AI buyers 20:42 Why B2B marketplaces historically became vertical SaaS 22:55 Will vertical AI and marketplaces converge? 24:18 The massive embedded advertising opportunity 28:49 Why AI products could become ad-supported 34:26 Distribution becomes the moat when software gets easier 35:55 Mike’s framework for investing in AI marketplaces TOPICS 1. AI Marketplaces 2. Agentic Commerce 3. B2B Commerce 4. AI Agents 5. Vertical AI

  3. Sep 2

    The AI Startup Strategy Everyone Is Copying | Quinn Litherland

    Every AI startup wants to get closer to the customer.But what happens when getting closer turns your software company into a services business?In this episode of Verticals, Luke and Nic sit down with Quinn Litherland, founder and CEO of Revin, to explore one of the biggest shifts happening inside AI-native companies: the rise of forward-deployed teams.But there's a catch.Forward-deployed teams can become an excuse not to build scalable products. This episode will tell you how to avoid this trap. In this episode, they unpack:-Why forward-deployed teams are becoming critical to vertical AI-How to stop an AI startup from becoming a services company-Why the best forward-deployed hires look more like founders than engineers-Why customer success could become a revenue generator instead of a cost centerIf you're building vertical AI, rethinking your startup org chart, or trying to understand how forward-deployed teams actually work beyond the hype, this episode breaks down what the model looks like in practice... and where it can go badly wrong.🎟️ TICKETS DROPPED. Vertical Software Summit — 5-billion-dollar Vertical AI CEOs confirmed to speak. Snag a ticket before they're gone: https://verticalsaasgroup.com/conference👉 FOLLOW QUINN LITHERLANDLINKEDIN ➡️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/quinnlitherland👉 FOLLOW LUKE SOPHINOSX ➡️ https://x.com/lukesophinosLINKEDIN ➡️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/lukesophinos/NEWSLETTER ➡️ https://www.newsletter.lukesophinos.com/👉 FOLLOW NIC POULOSX ➡️ https://x.com/picnoulosLINKEDIN ➡️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/npoulos/NEWSLETTER ➡️ https://insights.euclid.vc/🎬 TIMESTAMPS:00:00 Intro01:24 Building AI automation for the home services industry05:05 Why the old SaaS org chart no longer works10:10 What does a forward-deployed employee actually do?18:04 The two traps of the forward-deployed model29:40 What should the ideal forward-deployed team look like?35:41 Can forward-deployed teams work with low-ACV customers?42:13 Why owning the workflow matters more than owning the data44:25 Is the software UI becoming irrelevant?53:18 The future: $500M companies run by five people58:58 The only three hires an AI-native startup needsTOPICS1. Forward-Deployed Teams 2. Vertical AI & Vertical SaaS 3. AI Agents 4. AI Startup Org Charts 5. The Future of Software

  4. Aug 26

    The 5 AI Business Models That Could Replace SaaS | Yoni Rechtman

    For 50 years, software companies sold tools. But customers never really wanted the tool. They wanted the job done. In this episode of Verticals, Nic sits down with Yoni Rechtman, Partner at Slow Ventures, to unpack why AI is breaking the traditional SaaS model and creating an opportunity that could be orders of magnitude larger. Historically, businesses spent only a fraction of their budgets on software. The rest went toward people, agencies, contractors, and services actually doing the work. But AI changes that equation: software can now execute the workflow itself, allowing startups to go after the service budget instead of just the software budget. Yoni lays out five emerging business models he believes could define the next generation of AI companies: using services to differentiate software, using software to differentiate services, AI-powered rollups, agent networks, and hardware that differentiates software. In this episode, they discuss: -Why customers want outcomes, not workflow software -How AI could expand traditional software markets by 30–100x -The difference between selling software and taking responsibility for the work -Why many vertical AI agents could struggle to build lasting moats If you're building in vertical AI, investing in software, or trying to understand what comes after SaaS, this episode is a framework for the business models that could define the next decade. 🎟️ TICKETS DROPPED. Vertical Software Summit — 5-billion-dollar Vertical AI CEOs confirmed to speak. Snag a ticket before they're gone: https://verticalsaasgroup.com/conference 👉 FOLLOW YONI RECHTMAN LINKEDIN ➡️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/yrechtman X ➡️ https://x.com/yrechtman 👉 FOLLOW LUKE SOPHINOS X ➡️ https://x.com/lukesophinos LINKEDIN ➡️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/lukesophinos/ NEWSLETTER ➡️ https://www.newsletter.lukesophinos.com/ 👉 FOLLOW NIC POULOS X ➡️ https://x.com/picnoulos LINKEDIN ➡️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/npoulos/ NEWSLETTER ➡️ https://insights.euclid.vc/ 🎬 TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 Why customers never really wanted software 06:27 The 5 business models that could replace SaaS 12:03 Why forward-deployed engineers are suddenly everywhere 16:40 The massive opportunity hiding in SMB labor budgets 17:35 How AI agents could create entirely new network effects 21:08 Why AI could make software markets 30-100x bigger 24:46 The problem with AI companies that just resell tokens 28:45 Software vs. services: who actually owns the outcome? 33:37 Why “better prompts” won't become a lasting AI moat 38:05 Is proprietary data really defensible anymore? 42:39 Why the software vs. services distinction still matters 49:18 The agent network business model explained 53:47 What happens when AI agents start spending money? TOPICS 1. Vertical SaaS 2. Vertical AI & Enterprise Software 3. AI Agents, OpenAI, Anthropic & the Future of SaaS 4. Small Business Finance

  5. Aug 19

    How to Build a Vertical SaaS Company AI Can’t Replace | Sahill Poddar

    What separates the vertical software companies that compound for decades from the ones that eventually stall? Sahill Poddar has a unique dataset for answering that question... In this episode of Verticals, Luke and Nic sit down with Sahil, Co-Founder and CEO of Parafin, the embedded finance infrastructure powering capital products across platforms like DoorDash, Worldpay, and Mindbody. By underwriting the businesses operating across these platforms, Parafin gets a rare look under the hood at what actually separates the strongest vertical software companies from the rest. We discuss: -What the best vertical SaaS companies have in common -Why sequencing matters when expanding beyond your initial wedge -When vertical software companies should add financial services -How embedded lending can create stronger retention and higher LTV -Why AI could turn traditional software platforms into databases 🎟️ TICKETS DROPPED. Vertical Software Summit — 5-billion-dollar Vertical AI CEOs confirmed to speak. Snag a ticket before they're gone: https://verticalsaasgroup.com/conference 👉 FOLLOW SAHILL PODDAR LINKEDIN ➡️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/sahill-poddar-57302461/ X ➡️ https://x.com/llihas 👉 FOLLOW LUKE SOPHINOS X ➡️ https://x.com/lukesophinos LINKEDIN ➡️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/lukesophinos/ NEWSLETTER ➡️ https://www.newsletter.lukesophinos.com/ 👉 FOLLOW NIC POULOS X ➡️ https://x.com/picnoulos LINKEDIN ➡️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/npoulos/ NEWSLETTER ➡️ https://insights.euclid.vc/ 🎬 TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 What separates the best vertical SaaS companies 04:56 Why direct SMB lending became a Silicon Valley graveyard 11:16 How a five-person startup landed DoorDash 18:10 Why you should sell the minimum viable product 20:51 What the data says about winning vertical SaaS companies 26:45 How Parafin actually underwrites small businesses 34:31 Why AI needs to take action, not just provide insights 40:08 Could AI turn every SaaS product into a database? 48:58 The vertical software companies AI will struggle to replace 54:06 Sahill's favorite verticals from 2026 TOPICS 1. Vertical SaaS 2. Vertical AI & Enterprise Software 3. AI Agents, OpenAI, Anthropic & the Future of SaaS 4. Small Business Finance

  6. Aug 5

    Why Venture Capital Feels BROKEN In 2026 | Rick Zullo

    AI isn't just changing startups. It's exposing everything that's broken about venture capital. In this episode of Verticals, Nic sits down with Rick Zullo, Founder and Managing Partner of Equal Ventures, to discuss why today's venture market feels increasingly disconnected from the businesses it's funding, and why some of the biggest trends in AI investing may be driven as much by incentives as by opportunity. Rick argues that many AI-native services companies are being valued using the wrong metrics, that physical AI has become the latest destination for excess venture capital, and that some of the best software businesses of the last decade (including companies like Veeva) might struggle to get funded in today's environment. They discuss: -Why venture capital incentives have changed -The hidden flaws in AI-native services businesses -Whether physical AI is the next great opportunity or the next bubble -How to identify durable moats in the AI era -And so much more 00:00 Why something feels broken in venture capital 05:17 The hidden problem with AI-native services 10:01 Why competition kills AI margins 15:19 Is physical AI the next gold rush? 21:10 Which AI businesses actually build lasting moats? 28:03 Why robotics and autonomy are different bets 35:39 The return of capital-efficient startups 40:21 Why today's biggest VC funds play a different game 44:53 How Rick evaluates billion-dollar opportunities 46:58 The vertical AI markets Rick is most excited about 🎟️ TICKETS DROPPED. Vertical Software Summit — 5-billion-dollar Vertical AI CEOs confirmed to speak. Snag a ticket before they're gone: https://verticalsaasgroup.com/conference 👉 FOLLOW RICK ZULLO LINKEDIN ➡️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/rickzullo/ X ➡️ https://x.com/Rick_Zullo 👉 FOLLOW LUKE SOPHINOS X ➡️ https://x.com/lukesophinos LINKEDIN ➡️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/lukesophinos/ NEWSLETTER ➡️ https://www.newsletter.lukesophinos.com/ 👉 FOLLOW NIC POULOS X ➡️ https://x.com/picnoulos LINKEDIN ➡️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/npoulos/ NEWSLETTER ➡️ https://insights.euclid.vc/ 🎬 TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 Why something feels broken in venture capital 05:17 The hidden problem with AI-native services 10:01 Why competition kills AI margins 15:19 Is physical AI the next gold rush? 21:10 Which AI businesses actually build lasting moats? 28:03 Why robotics and autonomy are different bets 35:39 The return of capital-efficient startups 40:21 Why today's biggest VC funds play a different game 44:53 How Rick evaluates billion-dollar opportunities 46:58 The vertical AI markets Rick is most excited about TOPICS 1. Venture Capital 2. Startup Fundraising 3. AI Startups 4. Startup Strategy 5. Vertical SaaS

  7. Jul 29

    Why Everyone Is Building Their Own Software | Alex Oppenheimer

    AI is making it easier than ever to build software. So why are the best founders spending even more time thinking about what NOT to build? In this episode of Verticals, Nic sits down with Alex Oppenheimer, founder of Verissimo Ventures and former investor at NEA and Morgan Stanley, to discuss how AI is reshaping software, venture investing, and even decision-making for founders. From barbers rebuilding booking systems in ChatGPT to founders replacing SaaS subscriptions with their own tools, Alex argues that AI is lowering the cost of creation, but not the difficulty of building products people actually want. The conversation explores why vertical markets continue to surprise investors, how founders should think about build versus buy, and why surviving long enough to iterate may be the single most important job of an early-stage startup. They discuss: -Why AI is changing the build vs. buy equation -Why software isn't dead despite AI -The biggest mistake early-stage founders make -Why VCs continue to underestimate vertical markets How AI is expanding (not shrinking) software opportunities -And so much more If you're building an AI startup, investing in software, or trying to understand what skills still matter as AI becomes ubiquitous, this episode offers a thoughtful framework for navigating one of the biggest technology shifts in decades. 🎟️ TICKETS DROPPED. Vertical Software Summit — 5-billion-dollar Vertical AI CEOs confirmed to speak. Snag a ticket before they're gone: https://verticalsaasgroup.com/conference 👉 FOLLOW ALEX OPPENHEIMER LINKEDIN ➡️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-oppenheimer X ➡️ https://x.com/Alexoppenheimer 👉 FOLLOW LUKE SOPHINOS X ➡️ https://x.com/lukesophinos LINKEDIN ➡️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/lukesophinos/ NEWSLETTER ➡️ https://www.newsletter.lukesophinos.com/ 👉 FOLLOW NIC POULOS X ➡️ https://x.com/picnoulos LINKEDIN ➡️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/npoulos/ NEWSLETTER ➡️ https://insights.euclid.vc/ 🎬 TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 Is AI making judgment obsolete? 05:38 Why VCs still underestimate vertical markets 10:14 The new build vs. buy equation 16:00 Why software isn't dead 20:34 Where venture returns come from now 26:14 Why fund size changes everything in VC 30:03 The IPO problem and venture liquidity 33:55 Why fundraising has become so polarized 36:25 What founders should focus on next

  8. Jul 22

    How Open Source Is Changing the Game for Vertical AI | Jake Saper

    For the last two years, AI has been a race to build the best model. But what happens when the models become cheap, open source, and nearly interchangeable? That's the question reshaping the entire AI industry. In this episode of Verticals, Luke and Nic sit down with Jake Saper, General Partner at Emergence Capital and one of the earliest investors in companies like Zoom, Veeva, Ironclad, and Together AI, to discuss where value actually accrues as AI infrastructure becomes increasingly commoditized. Jake explains why open-source models are rapidly closing the gap with frontier labs, why companies are diversifying across multiple models instead of relying on a single provider, and why the next generation of AI winners may own proprietary workflows, evaluation data, and customer outcomes, not the underlying model itself. They discuss: -Why the model is no longer the moat -How open-source AI is changing enterprise software -Why token costs are collapsing faster than expected -The rise of AI-native services -And so much more If you're building AI products, investing in the next generation of software, or trying to understand where durable value will be created as AI matures, this conversation is a roadmap for what comes next. 📚 Read Emergence's Definitive Guide to AI-Native Services: https://www.emcap.com/ai-native-services 🎟️ TICKETS DROPPED. Vertical Software Summit — 5-billion-dollar Vertical AI CEOs confirmed to speak. Snag a ticket before they're gone: https://verticalsaasgroup.com/conference 👉 FOLLOW JAKE SAPER LINKEDIN ➡️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/jakesaper X ➡️ https://x.com/jakesaper 👉 FOLLOW LUKE SOPHINOS X ➡️ https://x.com/lukesophinos LINKEDIN ➡️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/lukesophinos/ NEWSLETTER ➡️ https://www.newsletter.lukesophinos.com/ 👉 FOLLOW NIC POULOS X ➡️ https://x.com/picnoulos LINKEDIN ➡️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/npoulos/ NEWSLETTER ➡️ https://insights.euclid.vc/ 🎬 TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 Why the AI moat is changing 05:40 Open source catches up to frontier models 10:58 Why enterprises are embracing open source AI 16:20 Can OpenAI win the application layer? 24:01 Why services are becoming software 31:28 The race to build proprietary AI data moats 36:38 What AI-native services get right 40:36 Why brand still matters in AI 45:49 The AI founder playbook for the next decade 48:37 The biggest AI opportunities still ahead TOPICS 1. Open Source AI & Foundation Models 2. AI Native Services & Enterprise AI 3. Vertical AI & AI Moats 4. AI Infrastructure, Fine-Tuning & Proprietary Data 5. The Future of SaaS & AI Business Models

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A VC and a Founder intellectually spar on Vertical Tech & AI: covering the latest news, unpacking in-depth business strategies, and interviewing world-class leaders in the space, every Thursday.

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