yvonne wink (00:01) Hi everyone, welcome back to the Unfolding Podcast. I'm your host, Yvonne Wink. And you know, when I first started this podcast, I really thought that I was creating a space primarily for women. So, like just women navigating the things that we go through relationships and heartbreak, healing, life after divorce, and when an empty nesting and yvonne wink (00:27) All of those wonderful little patterns that we keep repeating even when we know better. And so if you've been listening for a while, you know that I've spent a lot of time talking about everything from emotional abuse, narcissistic behaviors, trauma bonds, and the psychology behind why we stay in relationships that are quite frankly hurting us, even when we know it. yvonne wink (00:58) And something interesting started to happen when I started to put myself out there on social media, which everyone knows that I was completely protesting and then decided one day, why not? But I started to notice that men s were reaching out to me all over the place. And they were, there was some interesting things, funny, good, bad, all of the above, right? But men who were listening to these conversations and they were saying, wait a minute, this happened to me too. Kolby Fisher (01:27) you yvonne wink (01:28) What you're saying, what you're explaining about your experience, that happened to me too. And so I I I'll admit it, when you know, it made me realize something that while our experiences can look different, the emotional and psychological impact of unhealthy relationships, it doesn't discriminate by gender. So men can experience yvonne wink (01:54) let's see that men can experience a variety of things, but let's go with confusion, right? it looks different, but it looks it it can you can ex men can experience manipulation, betrayal, and what I call the slow erosion of their sense of self. And they experience that too. And we don't we don't hear nearly enough. Kolby Fisher (02:00) you Kolby Fisher (02:07) Okay. yvonne wink (02:23) Of their stories, and I'm not sure why, but I've got one for you today. Because I met Colby, who you'll be introduced to in just a second here. And Colby reached out to me on Instagram and shared pieces of his experience. And I remember for the first time reading his message, and I was thinking, wow, I I I recognize so much of this, right? Not because Kolby Fisher (02:32) you yvonne wink (02:51) our stories were identical because they're not. But I I recognized because some of the feelings that Colby was describing were so familiar. And it felt strange to hear it coming from a male perspective. Right? The confusion, the constant questioning of yourself, right? The feeling that no matter what you do, somehow you're always getting it wrong. And what really struck me Kolby Fisher (02:56) So, thank you. yvonne wink (03:18) Was that Colby had spent 21 years in a marriage trying to make sense of what was happening around him? You know those good guys that just they're sticking it out, right? They got they have kids and they're committed to this relationship. And I'm talking 20 plus years. And so today we're going to explore Colby's experience through a perspective that we don't often hear enough about. And that's a man's perspective. Kolby Fisher (03:31) So, thank you. yvonne wink (03:47) We're gonna talk about marriage, emotional abuse, betrayal, faith, fatherhood, and and what happens when you finally begin to recognize the patterns that you've been living in. And I wanna be really clear about something here. This isn't a conversation, and and you you have to know me by now if you've listened this far, that my conversations are never about men versus women or yvonne wink (04:12) We hate men, or women are terrible, or men are terrible, right? It's just about people. It's about humans. It's about what happens when love becomes confusing. When when sometimes when commitment becomes endurance. And when somewhere along the way, you begin losing yourself. And that's the ultimate heart of my podcast, right? Us losing ourselves. And so hopefully. yvonne wink (04:40) You know, this is a conversation about finding your way back, whether it's from a male's perspective or a female's perspective. I hope you get to savor every moment of us having Colby on the podcast today. So, Colby, welcome, welcome, welcome to the Unfolding Podcast. I am so glad that you're here and I appreciate your willingness to share your story. Welcome, Colby. Kolby Fisher (04:54) thank you. Thank you for the intro. That's good. It's, it's, I don't know. I just, it's kind of crazy because I don't, you know, I don't get nervous about things, but I kind of. yvonne wink (05:12) Ha ha ha. Kolby Fisher (05:24) made myself maybe a little bit nervous about this, but I mean, really, but I was just gonna say what it comes down to it is that I know that sharing what I know, what I'm hoping will help others. yvonne wink (05:27) But yvonne wink (05:39) I sure hope so. I know that what you have just in the little conversations that you and I have had, I I know that you're going to help a lot of people today. I think you're gonna help women, but most importantly, you're going to help men find language. And sometimes they can't hear it from my vessel, right? Sometimes they need to hear it via your vessel. And so you're doing the lowest work today, Colby. So Kolby Fisher (06:07) All right, there we go. yvonne wink (06:08) Yeah. And and I the f I love it when people are nervous because I know that means they care. And so I I'm glad that you care and you're here and sharing your story. So I will lead and you just, you know, you jump in, answer the questions and I hope you feel comfortable. Let's do this. Kolby Fisher (06:26) All right, let's do it. yvonne wink (06:28) Let's do it. So when I first read your message, there was something that you said that really stayed with me. And you and I were talking about this a little earlier. So but I want to bring it up again on this episode here. You described coming home and feeling like you were constantly doing something wrong. And I think anyone who's ever lived in that kind of emotional environment knows how exhausting. yvonne wink (06:54) that can be. I was telling you, right? Like you pull up to your house and you sit in the car in your car, right? And you know that you have to get in. You know that you have kids and family and food and things to get going, but you just the the exhaustion of knowing that you have to go in, right? And and and and just I I want you to share how exhausting that can be, but I want to start right there. So Colby, I want you to take me back to those early years of your marriage. I want to know what did it feel like yvonne wink (07:23) To come home. Kolby Fisher (07:26) well, as we, I mean, as we all know, like these types of people, they can hide it really well for only a little while. what'd be, you know, so I, I'd say like the first six months of my marriage, I didn't really see, I didn't see these patterns. it was a little bit, it was a little bit more into it. yvonne wink (07:50) Mm. Kolby Fisher (07:56) then, you know, but I mean, I'll be honest early in my, I mean, the crazy thing about all of this is that I really didn't start recognizing this chaos of confusion and not doing enough until well into my marriage. And you're talking like 18 years into my marriage that like, mean, even probably, well probably more like 15 years into my marriage of. Kolby Fisher (08:21) finally seeing like, why are you always stressed out? Why are you always confused or feel just not loved or feel like you're not, you just can't do anything right at any level really. Whether that be have a good job or like take your, I mean, yvonne wink (08:38) Right. Kolby Fisher (08:48) I don't know where they even really go because I'm kind of like, I mean, I mean, just to give you some background, I was the caretaker of my kids. I took them to all their appointments. My work schedule allowed me to do so. I, I, I took them to school. picked them up from school. I, my, my ex just simply with her career just told me that she doesn't have the time to do all those things. So as a team player, I thought, Hey, I'm going to do all this. yvonne wink (09:01) Aw. Kolby Fisher (09:17) I'm going to be there for my kids. going to, you know, I was in college at one point and decided and opted out of college just because it was just too much for me to be involved with my kids, having a full-time job and that, that, you know, college was, it was too hard. was too hard for me to do, be doing all that all at once. but you know, I, I made sure that she got through school. My ex graduated from BYU. Kolby Fisher (09:47) and that, and that came out of sacrifice. She literally was absent. And I understood that as somebody looking at it, I was like, you know what? Yeah, you've got to study. You got to go do these things. And, know, I was willing to make the sacrifices for us to build our life. And, and it allowed her to get a really good, you know, to get it started, a really good career and in an industry that she's still in today. And, but, know, yvonne wink (09:47) Wow. yvonne wink (09:54) Mm-hmm. yvonne wink (10:12) Yeah. Kolby Fisher (10:14) I don't know, like Yvonne, I was just going to say like it just to be honest, yeah, like when I finally realized coming home, it was interesting because I'm not sure what year it was because dates and things are just so scrambled for me these days. But I'll tell you, I was well into my marriage and I, I remember walking in and my ex, my now ex said, why were you out there for so long? You're out there sitting for a long time. What were you doing out there? yvonne wink (10:30) Right. Kolby Fisher (10:45) And it didn't dawn me even then why I was sitting out in my vehicle as long as I was. but then I started realizing, you know, really that's exactly why I was sitting in my vehicle. Cause I knew that once I ope
