We Can Work It Out

Dr Jonathan Lord
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Hello and welcome to We Can Work It Out — the podcast that explores the history, present and future of workers’ rights. I’m your host, Dr Jonathan Lord: in each episode we’ll be delving into the stories, struggles and successes that have shaped working lives. From friendly societies to people management- we welcome academics, activist’s, trade unionist’s, policymakers and workers themselves to help us understand what fair work really means in a changing world.

  1. 6d ago

    Episode 23 - Invisible Work, Unequal Rights: Domestic Workers, Migration and Human Rights

    In this episode of 'We Can Work It Out,' Dr. Jonathan Lord interviews Dr. Natalie Sadaka, an expert in employment law focusing on domestic and migrant workers. They discuss the historical devaluation of domestic work, the intersection of gender and race in labor dynamics, and the challenges faced by domestic workers in terms of legal protections and enforcement. Dr. Sadaka highlights the complexities of labor law as it applies to domestic settings, the impact of immigration status on workers' rights, and the ongoing issues of exploitation and forced labor. The conversation also touches on the cultural acceptance of domestic work and the significant enforcement gap that leaves many workers vulnerable. This conversation explores the challenges faced by domestic workers, particularly regarding their rights, immigration status, and the emotional toll of separation from family. It discusses the barriers to claiming rights through employment tribunals, the harsh realities of family reunification policies, and the intersection of gender and race in domestic work. The conversation also highlights the undervaluation of domestic work and the need for better protections and recognition of labor rights as human rights. You can purchase Natalie's book using this link and applying the code, AUFLY30, for a 30% discount. Enjoy the discussion.

    Episode 23 - Invisible Work, Unequal Rights: Domestic Workers, Migration and Human Rights

  2. Nov 2

    Episode 22 - Libraries Gave Us Power: TU, Education & the Fight for Working-Class Opportunity

    In this episode of 'We Can Work It Out', Dr. Jonathan Lord speaks with Gavin McCann, a seasoned trade unionist and author, about the historical and ongoing significance of education within the trade union movement. They explore themes such as the role of autodidacts, the fear of educating the working class, and the impact of the 1870 Education Act. Through personal stories and historical examples, they highlight how education has been a powerful tool for empowerment and social change in the labor movement. This conversation explores the historical development of the Labour Party and its connections to trade unions, education, and political representation. It highlights the importance of figures like Will Thorne and Tom Mann in shaping the Labour movement, the establishment of educational institutions like Ruskin College and the Central Labour College, and the impact of the Pleb Strike on workers' education. The discussion emphasizes the need for a strong connection between trade unions and the Labour Party to ensure representation for the working class. This conversation explores the evolution of trade union education, highlighting its professionalization post-World War II, the marginalization of women in trade union history, and the barriers to education faced by workers. It discusses successful union learning programs, particularly the Ford Employee Development Assistance Programme, and emphasizes the importance of education in the labor movement. The dialogue concludes with reflections on lessons for today's labor movement and the need for unions to focus on education and community support. Enjoy the discussion

    Episode 22 - Libraries Gave Us Power: TU, Education & the Fight for Working-Class Opportunity

  3. Oct 19

    Episode 21: The Life of Ken Turner and Growing Up in a Seafaring Family

    Episode 21: The Life of Ken Turner and Growing Up in a Seafaring Family | Karl Turner MP In Episode 21 of We Can Work It Out, Dr Jonathan Lord travels to Westminster to meet Karl Turner MP, Member of Parliament for Kingston upon Hull East, for a fascinating conversation about maritime trade unionism, working-class politics and the remarkable life of his father, Ken Turner. Growing up in a household where trade unionism and politics were part of everyday life, Karl recalls how his father's commitment to fairness, solidarity and workers' rights shaped his own political beliefs. Ken Turner began his working life as a merchant seafarer before becoming a prominent official of the National Union of Seamen (NUS) and subsequently the RMT, dedicating decades to representing maritime workers. Karl shares extraordinary memories of his father's involvement in some of Britain's most significant maritime industrial disputes, including the 1966 seamen's strike and the bitter confrontations with P&O during the 1980s. Among the remarkable stories is Ken's involvement in organising industrial action, collecting strike funds and facing a £1 million legal claim from P&O during a period when trade unions were increasingly constrained by legislation. The conversation also explores Hull's maritime heritage and the transformation of British shipping. Once a major source of secure, relatively well-paid employment, the industry experienced profound changes through globalisation, flags of convenience, declining trade union membership and the increasing use of lower-paid international labour. Drawing connections between these historical struggles and contemporary employment relations, Jonathan and Karl discuss the mass dismissal of almost 800 P&O Ferries workers in March 2022. Their discussion considers the findings of the University of Salford research report, The Impact of Mass Dismissals on Maritime Workers, and questions whether the government's response has gone far enough to prevent similar events. Karl reflects on what his father would have thought about P&O's actions, arguing that Ken would have been outraged but unsurprised. They also examine the responsibilities of multinational shipping companies, the importance of effective employment protections and whether strategically important maritime routes should be brought into public ownership. Beyond maritime employment, the episode considers the historical relationship between the Labour Party and the trade union movement. Karl discusses the influence of his predecessor, John Prescott, the importance of working-class political representation and his concerns about the changing relationship between organised labour and parliamentary politics. The conversation concludes with Karl's reflections on Ken Turner's legacy and his choice of former RMT General Secretary Bob Crow as one of the most influential figures in the world of work. Ultimately, this episode is a personal and revealing exploration of family, trade union history, political conviction and the continuing struggle for dignity and fairness at work. Enjoy the discussion

    Episode 21: The Life of Ken Turner and Growing Up in a Seafaring Family

  4. Oct 12

    Episode 20: Seafarers: The People Behind Global Shipping with the ICMA

    Around 80% of world trade by volume is carried by sea, yet the people who make global shipping possible often remain largely invisible. In Episode 20 of We Can Work It Out, I’m joined by Dr Jason Zuidema, General Secretary of the International Christian Maritime Association (ICMA), to explore the working lives of seafarers and the importance of welfare, dignity and human connection at sea. Jason has worked in seafarers’ welfare since 1997 and describes the problem of 'sea blindness': we depend upon shipping every day without necessarily seeing the workers behind it. Seafarers can spend months away from their families, living and working in the same environment while dealing with fatigue, isolation and the pressures of an increasingly efficient global shipping industry. We discuss the work of ICMA and its international network supporting seafarers, fishers and their families. Jason explains how maritime welfare can range from providing transport, Wi-Fi and practical assistance in port to helping workers facing unpaid wages, abandonment, mental-health difficulties or employment problems. Although ICMA is a Christian organisation, its services are provided to seafarers regardless of nationality, religion, culture, gender or ethnic origin. The conversation explores mental health, suicide prevention, family separation and shore leave, including concerns that many seafarers have little or no opportunity to leave their vessels during a contract. We also examine how technology has transformed communication with home while potentially allowing work to intrude further into rest periods. Jason discusses the Maritime Labour Convention, describing it as an important international minimum standard but emphasising that it should represent a floor rather than a ceiling for seafarers’ working conditions. We also consider seafarer abandonment, the challenges of enforcing rights across an international industry, geopolitical conflict and the dangers faced by civilian crews operating in areas affected by war. The episode returns to the P&O Ferries dismissals of 2022, particularly the mental-health consequences of losing not only employment but also professional identity and workplace community. Despite these challenges, Jason remains optimistic about the future, describing seafaring as an honourable profession and reminding us that behind global shipping are people whose work, sacrifice and wellbeing deserve far greater recognition. Enjoy the discussion.

    Episode 20: Seafarers: The People Behind Global Shipping with the ICMA

  5. Oct 3

    Episode 19 - Marxism in Music: Can Rock ’n’ Roll Change the World?

    Can a three-minute song change someone's politics? Can music encourage people to become activists, support workers in struggle or even join a political movement? In Episode 19 of We Can Work It Out, I welcome back Professor Gregor Gall to discuss his new book, Marxism in Music: Constructing a Communist Contra-Culture with The Redskins, Rock ’n’ Roll and Revolution. At the centre of our conversation are The Redskins, the revolutionary socialist band that emerged during the political turmoil of early-1980s Britain. Against a backdrop of Thatcherism, mass unemployment, deindustrialisation and industrial conflict, the band attempted to combine popular music with an explicitly socialist message. We discuss their involvement in the 1984–85 miners’ strike, including their numerous benefit gigs and support for striking miners, and explore why the band wanted to “walk like The Clash and sing like The Supremes”. Gregor explains the important distinction between counterculture and contra-culture, arguing that socialist movements have historically concentrated on economic and political struggles while paying considerably less attention to culture as a means of influencing ideas. But did The Redskins actually change people? Drawing on testimony from more than 100 people, Gregor explains how the band's music introduced listeners to socialist ideas, encouraged political activism and helped sustain political commitment. We also explore the contradictions of producing anti-capitalist music within a capitalist music industry and compare The Redskins with The Clash, Billy Bragg, The Housemartins and Easterhouse. Finally, we bring the discussion into the present. In an age of Spotify, YouTube, TikTok and algorithm-driven culture, could a political band like The Redskins have the same influence today? Music may not change society by itself, but it can introduce ideas, create solidarity and encourage people to act. Enjoy the discussion. Until the 31 January 2027, there is a 35% discount code available - MARXISM35 - on the hardback book so £52 (with free postage within UK). Use at: https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/marxism...

    Episode 19 - Marxism in Music: Can Rock ’n’ Roll Change the World?

  6. Sep 15

    Episode 18 - Building Your Own Path: Young Entrepreneurship in an Age of Youth Unemployment

    Episode 18: Building Your Own Path – Young Entrepreneurship and the Rise of Boss BabesWhat does it really take to build your own business when you are young? And behind the success stories we see on social media, how much failure, sacrifice and hard work does entrepreneurship actually require? In this episode of We Can Work It Out, I am joined by Megan Jones, founder of Boss Babes Aesthetics and co-founder of By Babes, for a candid conversation about entrepreneurship, ambition, resilience and creating your own path into the world of work. Megan’s journey is anything but conventional. After starting at the London College of Fashion, she quickly realised university was not for her. Training in lash treatments to earn some additional money gradually developed into a growing business and ultimately the foundations of Boss Babes. Megan talks openly about the reality behind that success. She experimented with different businesses, invested in training and coaching, launched products that failed and experienced the financial pressures of trying to grow too quickly. We discuss why there is rarely such a thing as an overnight success and how social media can hide the years of work that happen before anybody notices. A major theme is resilience. Megan explains why consistency, persistence and delayed gratification have been crucial to her success. We also explore the sacrifices involved in entrepreneurship, from long working hours and financial risk to the impact on friendships and social life. We discuss the values behind Boss Babes Aesthetics, including Megan’s belief that honesty and client trust should always come before short-term profit. She explains why empowering women and helping clients feel confident, rather than simply selling treatments, has become central to the business. Our conversation also looks at young people and the changing world of work. Are more young people questioning traditional career routes? Should schools and universities do more to develop entrepreneurship, financial literacy, confidence and resilience? And could self-employment offer another pathway for young people struggling to find their place in the labour market? We also explore the impact of artificial intelligence. Megan believes AI is dramatically reducing some of the barriers to starting a business, but argues that the people who benefit most will be those who use it to increase their productivity and ambition rather than simply to work less. The conversation becomes more personal as Megan discusses mental wellbeing, finding purpose through her business and the influence of her father, whose own experience as a business owner helped shape her attitude towards hard work, risk and persistence. Building Your Own Path is ultimately about much more than entrepreneurship. It is about challenging conventional definitions of success and recognising that there is no single route into a fulfilling working life. Enjoy the discussion.

  7. Aug 17

    Episode 17 - Employment Tribunals in crisis: The blind spot in the ‘New Deal for Working People’

    Episode 17: Employment Tribunals in Crisis – The Blind Spot in the New Deal for Working PeopleIn this episode of We Can Work It Out, Dr Jonathan Lord is joined by Andrei Savitski, Community Research and Data Officer at the Work Rights Centre, to discuss one of the most pressing yet overlooked challenges facing employment rights in Britain: the growing crisis within the Employment Tribunal system. Drawing on the findings of the Work Rights Centre's influential report, Employment Tribunals in Crisis, the conversation examines why access to workplace justice is becoming increasingly difficult and what this means for workers, employers and the Government's ambitious programme of employment law reform. Andrei begins by explaining the motivation behind the report, describing how repeated experiences of lengthy delays, postponed hearings and administrative failures affecting clients prompted the research. The discussion explores why employment tribunals receive relatively little public attention despite playing a fundamental role in enforcing employment rights. As Andrei argues, rights only have value if workers can realistically enforce them. A major focus of the episode is the scale of the current backlog. Using the latest tribunal statistics, Andrei explains how the number of new claims entering the system is now consistently exceeding the number being resolved, causing waiting times to increase dramatically. Contrary to popular assumptions, he argues that the problem is not excessive numbers of claims but rather the tribunal system's inability to dispose of cases efficiently. The conversation examines the data behind judicial shortages, regional disparities, administrative pressures and the growing complexity of employment claims, particularly discrimination and whistleblowing cases. This episode provides an evidence-based examination of one of the most important issues facing employment law today. Whether you are an academic, legal practitioner, HR professional, policymaker, trade unionist or simply interested in the future of workplace justice, it offers valuable insight into why Employment Tribunals matter and why reforming the system may be the missing piece in delivering meaningful employment rights. Enjoy the discussion.

  8. Jul 13

    Episode 16 - Can We Afford the AI Revolution?

    In this episode of We Can Work It Out, Dr Jonathan Lord is joined by Professor Richard Whittle, Professor of AI and Public Policy at the University of Salford, to explore one of the defining questions of our time: how should we understand the economics of generative AI, and who ultimately pays for its promises? Drawing on his background as an economist, Richard explains how his research has evolved from studying financial markets and asset price bubbles to examining the impact of artificial intelligence on work, public policy and the wider economy. Rather than focusing solely on what AI can do, the discussion considers the economic forces driving its rapid adoption and whether the current business model behind generative AI is financially sustainable. The episode explores the distinction between traditional artificial intelligence and generative AI, examining why the arrival of tools such as ChatGPT represents a fundamental shift in how organisations and individuals interact with technology. Richard discusses why today's AI services appear remarkably inexpensive and argues that current pricing reflects a strategy of rapid market expansion rather than the true cost of providing these systems. The conversation considers what could happen if businesses become dependent on AI platforms before significant price increases begin. The conversation also examines the implications for the public sector, where governments increasingly view AI as a mechanism for improving efficiency and reducing costs. Richard discusses examples from local government, education and healthcare, questioning whether AI-generated savings are being reinvested to improve public services or simply used to reduce expenditure. The discussion considers how artificial intelligence exposes wider structural problems within public services, including decades of underinvestment, workforce pressures and increasing demand. Jonathan and Richard explore the potential impact of AI on employment, productivity and future skills. Rather than predicting widespread job losses, Richard focuses on the longer-term consequences of replacing entry-level work with automation, asking how organisations will develop future experts if junior employees no longer gain the experience traditionally required to build professional judgement. The discussion highlights the importance of education, interdisciplinary thinking and maintaining human expertise alongside technological development. The episode also considers wider questions surrounding regulation, ethics and national sovereignty. Richard examines the dominance of a small number of global AI companies, the implications of relying on overseas technology providers and the challenges governments face in regulating rapidly evolving systems. The conversation touches on issues including copyright, data protection, inequality, AI literacy and whether access to advanced AI should eventually be considered a public utility. Finally, Richard outlines the key questions every organisation should ask before embedding AI into its operations, including whether current business models remain viable if AI prices rise significantly, how organisations can maintain human expertise alongside automation, and how AI will reshape competition across different sectors. Throughout the episode, he argues that the most important question is not simply what AI can do today, but what the long-term costs of today's short-term efficiency savings may be. This episode offers a thought-provoking examination of the economic realities behind generative AI and explores what its rapid adoption means for workers, employers, policymakers and the future of work. Enjoy the discussion.

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About

Hello and welcome to We Can Work It Out — the podcast that explores the history, present and future of workers’ rights. I’m your host, Dr Jonathan Lord: in each episode we’ll be delving into the stories, struggles and successes that have shaped working lives. From friendly societies to people management- we welcome academics, activist’s, trade unionist’s, policymakers and workers themselves to help us understand what fair work really means in a changing world.

Information

  • Creator
    Dr Jonathan Lord
  • Years Active
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodes
    30
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 2026 Dr Jonathan Lord
  • Show Website
    We Can Work It Out

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