Conversations on Cities of Tomorrow

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Hi everyone, and welcome to Meso Space Conversations on Cities of Tomorrow. I’m your host, Dr Hamed Tavakoli, a landscape architect, urban designer and researcher exploring how we can create better cities. This podcast asks one big question: how can we make our cities better places to live, today and for generations to come? In each episode, I speak with leading thinkers, researchers, designers and changemakers about climate resilience, urban greening, housing, infrastructure, governance and community. We go beyond what cities could be to explore how real change happens. Stay tuned...

Episodes

  1. Aug 22

    Good Cartels Good Cities: The Truth About Power and Collaboration in City Making. In conversation with Sarah Patterson

    Good Cartels, Good Cities: The Truth About Power and Collaboration in City Making Important note: The following conversation includes reflections on family violence and systemic racism. Listener discretion is advised. What really shapes a city? Plans matter. Design matters. Policy matters. But behind all of them are relationships, negotiations, power, trust and the way people choose to work together. In Episode 07 of Cities of Tomorrow, Dr Hamed Tavakoli speaks with Sarah Patterson, strategic designer, Accredited Partnership Broker, founder of The Good Cartel Consulting, and TEDxCanberra speaker. This conversation explores how power operates inside institutions and city making, why good intentions can still produce poor outcomes, and why collaboration often fails long before anyone notices. Sarah reflects on her journey through government, architecture, management consulting and strategic design, and how each stage changed the way she understands change. We discuss: • Why policy can fail when change is done to people rather than with people • How development pressures can undermine good design• Why communities are often consulted after the most important decisions have already been made • The hidden role of relationships in successful city making • Why strategies, plans and roadmaps are not enough for complex problems • How power dynamics influence who speaks, who decides and whose knowledge matters • What genuine co design with communities and Traditional Owners can look like • Why Sarah founded The Good Cartel • What changemakers can learn from cartels and monopolies about coordination, long term thinking and collective power • The difference between power over people and power with people • Why city makers need to think beyond their own lifetime and become better ancestors One of the strongest ideas in the conversation is simple: Our power comes from our relationships. Not only our relationships with each other, but with place, nature, history and the generations who will live with the decisions we make today. Sarah leaves city makers with a powerful challenge: when making decisions, make space for the people who are not yet here. This is a conversation about cities, but also about something deeper. How do we create change together when the problems are complex, the interests are different and no single organisation has enough power to solve them alone? Content note: This episode includes reflections on family violence and systemic racism. Listener discretion is advised.🎙️ Cities of Tomorrow - Episode 07: Good Cartels, Good Cities: The Truth About Power and Collaboration in City Making In conversation with Sarah Patterson #CitiesOfTomorrow #Collaboration #CityMaking #UrbanPlanning #StrategicDesign #Partnerships #SystemsThinking #Leadership #CommunityEngagement #Governance #UrbanDesign #MesoSpace

  2. Aug 11

    The Autistic Innovator: Reshaping Cities from the Inside Out. In conversation with Dr Sharon Zivkovic

    What is neurodiversity, and why do our cities still fail to design for it?In this episode of Cities of Tomorrow, host Dr Hamed Tavakoli sits down with Dr Sharon Zivkovic, Founder and CEO of Community Capacity Builders (including the Centre for Autistic Social Entrepreneurship). Openly AuDHD — both autistic and ADHD — Sharon has spent two decades turning her neurodivergent mind into the engine behind frameworks, tools and social innovations that are reshaping how we think about cities, inclusion and entrepreneurship.Sharon shares her own story of growing up in Adelaide and realising early on that her mind worked differently, then unpacks three autistic cognitive strengths — monotropic thinking, systemising, and bottom-up associative thinking — in plain language. She takes us inside the sensory overload of simply walking through a city, and makes the case that our streets, public spaces and decision-making processes are largely designed for one kind of brain, at a real cost to everyone else.From noise pollution and urban heat islands, to the research gap on aging and autism, to why she believes autistic entrepreneurship — not just autistic employment — is the real answer to chronic underemployment, this conversation reframes autism away from a charity model and toward a social model of disability and human rights.In this episode:The three autistic cognitive strengths: monotropism, systemising, and bottom-up associative thinkingWhat sensory overload actually feels like navigating a cityWhy current urban design is both a design failure and a values failureTwo uncomfortable truths about cities: noise pollution and urban heat islandsWicked Lab, and the systems-change framework behind itThe research gap on aging and autismWhy she founded the Centre for Autistic Social EntrepreneurshipWhat a genuinely inclusive street, park or neighbourhood could look likeTimestamps:0:00 – Welcome & What Is Neurodiversity?1:16 – Meet Dr Sharon Zivkovic1:49 – Growing Up Autistic in Adelaide4:56 – Three Autistic Strengths: Monotropism, Systemising & Associative Thinking7:45 – What Sensory Overload Feels Like in a City10:04 – Design Failure or Values Failure?12:03 – Are Public Spaces Built Only for Neurotypical People?14:15 – What Governments Miss About Neurodiversity17:04 – Are Inclusion Policies Real, or Just Performative?18:26 – Aging, Autism and the Research Gap21:48 – Noise Pollution & Urban Heat Islands: The Uncomfortable Truth23:21 – Wicked Lab: Systems Change for Autistic Entrepreneurship26:03 – What Autistic Thinking Sees That Planners Miss29:23 – If She Could Change One Thing About Our Cities31:12 – Why She Founded the Centre for Autistic Social Entrepreneurship34:20 – A City That Works for Everyone37:17 – Her Message to Councils, Government & IndustryAbout Cities of TomorrowCities of Tomorrow is a Meso Space podcast series exploring the future of cities, communities and public life — through conversations with the people redesigning how we live, connect and belong.🔔 Subscribe for new episodes📩www.mesospace.com.au#Neurodiversity #Autism #ADHD #UrbanDesign #InclusiveDesign #CitiesOfTomorrow #SocialEntrepreneurship #Accessibility #UrbanPlanning

  3. Jul 30

    The Street Tree Scientist: Why Urban Greening Keeps Falling Short. In conversation with Dr Thami Croeser

    In this episode of Cities of Tomorrow, Dr Thami Croeser joins Hamed Tavakoli for a wide-ranging conversation about why Australian cities continue to fall short on urban greening, even when the evidence, strategies and targets are already in place. Thami explains that the central problem is no longer a lack of research. Australian cities already know that trees reduce heat, improve health, support biodiversity, strengthen neighbourhood identity and make streets more liveable. The real challenge is delivery. Too often, ambitious canopy targets are announced without the institutional structures, funding, land allocation and political support needed to achieve them. The conversation explores Thami’s research using the 3-30-300 rule across more than 2.5 million buildings in eight global cities. The rule asks whether people can see three trees from their home, school or workplace, whether their neighbourhood has at least 30 percent canopy cover, and whether they live within 300 metres of quality green space. Thami discusses what this research reveals about access to nature, canopy inequality and the gap between citywide targets and the daily experience of individual residents. The episode also looks at the relationship between urban greening and equity. The hottest neighbourhoods are often the same places with the lowest canopy, the least shade and the fewest resources to adapt. Thami argues that cities need to move beyond broad planting numbers and start asking who benefits, where investment is directed and whether greening is reaching the communities most exposed to heat. Drawing on his practical experience, Thami reflects on his role in Melbourne’s Green Your Laneway program, which transformed four laneways through community participation, local knowledge and coordinated implementation. He explains what this work taught him about the difference between planning a project and actually delivering one, and why practical collaboration is often more important than another strategy document. The discussion then turns to politics and institutional reform. Thami argues that urban forestry cannot remain a small environmental program operating at the edge of government. It needs to be treated as core public infrastructure and integrated into transport, planning, health, water, climate adaptation and capital works. He also proposes a billion-dollar infrastructure taskforce focused on systematically planting trees in heat-exposed areas. The idea is to move away from scattered, opportunistic planting and towards a coordinated citywide program with clear priorities, stable funding and long-term accountability. This episode is about more than trees. It is about how cities make decisions, how institutions respond to evidence and why urban greening succeeds in some places but remains painfully slow in others. It asks a simple but urgent question. If we already know what trees can do for our cities, what is still stopping us from delivering them at the scale required?

  4. Jul 21

    The Poet of Cemeteries: How Memorial Grounds Become Places of Healing. In conversation with Florence Jaquet

    Episode 04 — The Poet of Cemeteries: How Memorial Grounds Become Places of Healing What if a cemetery could be more than a place of burial? What if it could become a landscape of healing, memory, culture and public life? In this episode of Cities of Tomorrow, Hamed Tavakoli speaks with Florence Jaquet, a landscape architect specialising in cemetery and memorial design. Born near Paris and trained in horticulture in Lille and landscape architecture in Geneva, Florence has worked across France, Switzerland, England and Australia. For four decades, she has helped reshape how cemeteries are planned and experienced. Florence reflects on the childhood garden that inspired her love of plants, the artistic influence of her mother, and the European traditions that shaped her practice. French experimentation, Swiss environmental thinking and British landscape traditions each influenced her approach to nature and remembrance. The conversation explores why cemetery design matters. Florence describes grief not as a single moment, but as a process. People may enter a memorial landscape carrying pain and uncertainty, then gradually move towards remembrance and connection. Thoughtful design can support that transition through human-scale spaces, privacy, shelter, planting, seasonal change, art, music and places for reflection. The episode also examines children’s memorial areas. Florence discusses how children grieve differently from adults and why spaces should allow siblings to play, write messages and process loss at their own pace. She shares ideas including writable stone surfaces, message trees, protective circular forms and planting that communicates care, safety and the cycle of life. A major focus is Macarthur Memorial Park, a 120-hectare greenfield cemetery conceived as much more than a burial ground. Florence explains how its design emerged from a detailed reading of topography, geology, ecology, climate, waterways and cultural history. Rather than imposing a large design statement, the aim was to work lightly with the rolling hills, retain natural systems and create a peaceful place connected to its setting. The park was planned as a multi-purpose public landscape, with walking and cycling routes, wetlands created from former farm dams, a café, sculpture, cultural interpretation and a proposed timeline walk telling the story of the land—from geology and ecology to First Nations knowledge and European settlement. Can cemeteries become active parts of cities rather than isolated places visited only for funerals? Florence and Hamed also discuss cemetery tourism, differences between European and Australian burial traditions, natural burial, renewable grave tenure and the challenge of burial in perpetuity. With urban cemeteries running out of space and facing ongoing maintenance costs, Florence argues that legislation, land use and burial practices must evolve. She compares approaches used in Switzerland, Western Australia and South Australia, and explains why sustainability must include what happens after death. The conversation also travels to Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia, where Florence worked in a context shaped by Buddhism, shamanic traditions, nomadic life and frozen ground. Her experience highlights the importance of designing with local culture rather than applying a universal model. Topics explored: • Landscapes that support grief and healing • Children’s memorial gardens and sibling grief • Human scale, privacy, planting, art and music • Macarthur Memorial Park and landscape-led planning • Cemeteries as parks and community spaces • Natural burial, renewable tenure and sustainability • Cemetery tourism and changing attitudes towards death • First Nations knowledge and respect for Country • The future of urban cemeteries Florence’s final message is personal and urgent: talk with your family about your wishes, consider the environmental impact of those choices, and recognise that death is part of the wider cycle of life.

  5. Apr 5

    Engineering Meets Ecology: Climate-Responsive vs Regenerative Civil Design — What’s the Difference? In conversation with David Worsley

    In this episode, Hamed Tavakoli sits down with David Worsley, founder of Worsley Consulting Engineers, to explore the evolving role of civil engineering in a climate-conscious world. David shares his journey from early inspiration through games like SimCity to leading an innovative engineering practice, highlighting a critical shift in the profession—from focusing on “how” things are built to understanding “why” they are built. The conversation dives into how engineers can take on more strategic leadership roles, especially when involved early in project planning. A key focus of the episode is WC3, Australia’s first purpose-built embodied carbon calculator for civil infrastructure. David explains how the tool helps designers, planners, and engineers measure and reduce carbon footprints across projects—making carbon analysis more accessible and actionable. From integration with design software to scenario testing, WC3 enables better decision-making at every stage. One standout insight comes from a cemetery project, where up to 50% of upfront carbon emissions were linked to grave foundations—revealing how overlooked elements can significantly impact a project’s carbon profile. The discussion also unpacks the growing importance of Scope 3 emissions (embodied carbon), especially as operational emissions decrease with grid electrification. David highlights the current gaps in legislation and why embodied carbon will soon become a central focus in infrastructure delivery. Finally, the episode explores two key approaches shaping the future of design: • Climate-sensitive design — integrating mitigation and adaptation using future climate projections • Regenerative civil design — restoring natural systems through approaches like pre-settlement water management, including billabongs, leaky weirs, and contour berms This is a conversation about leadership, systems thinking, and the tools shaping the next generation of infrastructure—where engineering moves beyond compliance to actively regenerating landscapes.

    Engineering Meets Ecology: Climate-Responsive vs Regenerative Civil Design — What’s the Difference? In conversation with David Worsley

  6. Feb 25

    Cemetery and Heritage: Social, Spatial and Cultural Futures. In conversation with Benjamin Gall

    The podcast discussion focused on heritage conservation for cemeteries and their overall management, featuring Benjamin Gall from Australian Heritage Specialists. Ben shared his background in heritage consultancy and detailed how cemeteries in Australia are commonly recognised as heritage sites, particularly those with historical burials from European settlement. He highlighted a successful case study of a repurposed cemetery in Tingalpa, Brisbane, which was saved from development and transformed into an active community space through continued burials and community engagement. The conversation explored challenges around cemetery accessibility and maintenance, while also discussing opportunities for sustainability through heritage tourism and associated opportunities. Ben concluded by discussing future trends in cemetery management, including the potential use of AI technology for virtual interpretation of memorials and the evolving nature of burial practices toward cremation and columbaria. Preserving Historical Cemeteries Through Community Action Benjamin shared a case study about a Tingalpa Pioneer Chapel and Cemetery in Brisbane, which was saved from being sold for industrial development through community action. The cemetery, which contains historical burials including prominent early settlers, is now actively used by the community for events, rehearsals, and maintenance, with new burials having recently resumed to ensure its continued use and preservation. Benjamin emphasized thatcemeteries need to remain active spaces for burials to maintain their heritage value and community connection. https://www.ahspecialists.com.au/blog/tingalpas-pioneers-chapel-celebrates-150-years/ Cemetery Repurposing and Management Benjamin shared his experience with repurposing cemeteries as active urban spaces, highlighting the success of Tingalpa Pioneer Chapel and Cemetery in hosting community events while respecting buried remains. He emphasised the importance of using ground-penetrating radar to map burial sites and avoid developing on top of them. Benjamin also discussed the challenge of managing cemeteries as public spaces, noting that while visitors respect the site, others can cause additional wear and tear to pathways and grounds if the number of visitors suddenly increases. Cemetery Heritage and Protection Ben discussed his experience with cemetery heritage, including listing and protecting cemeteries on local heritage registers and managing statutory approvals under local or state planning provisions. Hamed introduced Ben as a guest on the "Cemeteries of Tomorrow" podcast series, highlighting his role as Managing Director and Principal Consultant at Australian Heritage Specialists, the largest integrated heritage practice in Queensland. Heritage Consultancy and Cultural Practices Ben discussed his background in heritage consultancy, focusing on cultural heritage practices across Queensland, New South Wales, and Victoria. He explained that his work often involves multidisciplinary teams, including landscape architects, designers, archaeologists, historians, and planners, particularly in areas such as cemeteries and churches, which are generally accepted as having heritage value. Ben shared his personal journey from an early interest in history and conservation, influenced by family and a formative trip to Europe in 1981, to his current role in heritage management. He highlighted the practical aspects of his work, including collaboration with local governments on cemetery management, and emphasised the evolving nature of heritage practices in Australia.

    Cemetery and Heritage: Social, Spatial and Cultural Futures. In conversation with Benjamin Gall

  7. 12/05/2025

    Conversations on Cemeteries of Tomorrow. In conversation with Ben Kelly

    Who This Podcast Is For MesoSpace Conversations on Cemeteries of Tomorrow is created for professionals, leaders, and communities who are shaping the future of cemetery and crematoria services across Australia and internationally. This podcast is for anyone interested in sustainable cemetery planning, landscape architecture, urban design, memorial infrastructure, governance, digital memorialisation, community engagement, and the evolving role of cemeteries in contemporary cities. Our audience includes cemetery operators and managers who are navigating real operational pressures such as land scarcity, ageing infrastructure, tenure reform, maintenance challenges, cultural expectations, and financial sustainability. It is also valuable for council teams responsible for public land management, master planning, urban greening, asset management, and long-term city resilience planning. Policy makers, regulators, and government agencies working on legislation, burial tenure models, environmental compliance, or sector reform will also find practical insights and future-focused perspectives. Urban planners, landscape architects, architects, engineers, environmental consultants, GIS specialists, ecologists, and design practitioners will gain an understanding of how memorial landscapes can contribute to biodiversity, climate resilience, ecological restoration, and integrated green infrastructure networks. The podcast highlights how cemetery land can support nature-based solutions, sustainable drainage, natural burial, carbon reduction strategies, and circular-economy models for the crematoria and funeral industry. We also welcome funeral directors, crematoria operators, grief support workers, social researchers, historians, artists, cultural leaders, and community organisations who are exploring how memorial spaces can better reflect diversity, cultural identity, storytelling, heritage values, and inclusive community needs. As digital transformation accelerates, this series will be particularly relevant for innovators working in digital memorialisation, virtual remembrance platforms, cemetery mapping systems, data governance, and technology-enhanced user experiences. Students and academics in landscape architecture, planning, anthropology, sociology, environmental studies, and death studies will also discover emerging ideas, new models, and evidence-based research that challenge traditional thinking about cemeteries. For members of the public, community advocates, and anyone curious about the future of remembrance within rapidly growing cities, this podcast offers accessible, thought-provoking insights into how cemeteries can evolve into multifunctional, sustainable, community-centred landscapes. Whether you manage cemetery operations, design memorial parks, develop policy frameworks, plan sustainable cities, or simply want to understand how future cemeteries will look, feel, and function, this podcast will equip you with knowledge, inspiration, and practical tools for navigating the changing landscape of death care, memorialisation, and sustainable land use.

  • 7 Episodes

About

Hi everyone, and welcome to Meso Space Conversations on Cities of Tomorrow. I’m your host, Dr Hamed Tavakoli, a landscape architect, urban designer and researcher exploring how we can create better cities. This podcast asks one big question: how can we make our cities better places to live, today and for generations to come? In each episode, I speak with leading thinkers, researchers, designers and changemakers about climate resilience, urban greening, housing, infrastructure, governance and community. We go beyond what cities could be to explore how real change happens. Stay tuned...

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